House to house Search .

[clublights]

Watching Footage of the manhunt for the boston bomber, SWAT teams seem to be doing house to house searches Entering the houses and searching



Would you let them in ?


I'm kinda torn.. I want my privacy .... but I want them to get on with the search and find the fuck. sooner they look thru my house the sooner they move on to where he might be.

[blacklabel]

I wouldn't.

Shouldn't they be able to review the UAV footage to see he never entered my home? /tinfoil hat

[Jamnanc]

It would be complicated. Obviously you've armed yourself in case the bad guy tries to get in. Then your armed and the swat team comes knocking. They just had one of theirs get shot/bombed, and they're pissed with itchy triggers. Possible bad situation right there.

Never mind , it's a gun control state and I don't have a permit, bad guy already busted in and took me hostage.

[kidicarus13]

I'd know the guy they are looking for wasn't in my house so there would be no need to let them in.

[BushMasterBoy]

No warrant, no searchee.

[blacklabel]

I'd know the guy they are looking for wasn't in my house so there would be no need to let them in.

During a search for a missing girl in Colorado that resulted in house to house searches an elderly lady said she allowed police to search her home because she'd do anything to help find the girl. Well hell, if you've got her in the basement lady, just bring her out.

[Aloha_Shooter]

... and this is where some of the more extreme here lose me. In a case where I know and understand what's going on and wny the searches are in the public's best interest (read: immediate public safety like armed & dangerous fugitive), yes, I cooperate. If it appears to be just random or the story sounds like just an excuse to case my house, nope, the Fourth Amendment protects me against unwarranted search & seizure. Yeah, I know I'm not the perp and I'm not hiding the little girl but how do you know the perp isn't hiding in your basement or shed? Why not let the police save some time and focus their search efforts by quickly verifying your place is "clean"?

Jeebus guys, is your world really that B&W? Are you one of the ones who would've prosecuted Lt Col West for aggravated assault because he fired his M9 while questioning an Iraqi detainee about a planned ambush on his unit?

[RCCrawler]

I wonder if people even have the option to tell them no.

[buckshotbarlow]

No warrant, no searchee.

ding ding ding, we have a winner

[Great-Kazoo]

No warrant, no searchee.

Not under the patriot Act and when a Terrorist Attack happened.


... and this is where some of the more extreme here lose me. In a case where I know and understand what's going on and wny the searches are in the public's best interest (read: immediate public safety like armed & dangerous fugitive), yes, I cooperate. If it appears to be just random or the story sounds like just an excuse to case my house, nope, the Fourth Amendment protects me against unwarranted search & seizure. Yeah, I know I'm not the perp and I'm not hiding the little girl but how do you know the perp isn't hiding in your basement or shed? Why not let the police save some time and focus their search efforts by quickly verifying your place is "clean"?

Jeebus guys, is your world really that B&W? Are you one of the ones who would've prosecuted Lt Col West for aggravated assault because he fired his M9 while questioning an Iraqi detainee about a planned ambush on his unit?

My home, they would have been already informed there was no one on premises. PROVIDING I was on site the entire time. If not they could do a basic out building search.


It happened about 28 years ago in Arap County. Our dogs (rhoodesian , a rottie and dane shepard) were going crazy in the yard as i see a figure flash across the side window, moving towards the front of house. The door bell rings and i answer it, standing off to the side with gun drawn, at chest level. Standing there with a look of "OH SHIT" was Mr. meth himself Pat Sullivan. In a stern / commanding voice i say WHAT DO YOU WANT? He's umm um we're looking for a fleeing suspect who was just seen in this area, BUT it looks like he is not at this house, have a good day. And off he goes. It didn't register who he was until he left. We had a good laugh with that one, since i use to handle maintenance for the AC MC's

[sniper7]

I wouldn't want to. But my guess is if you tell them no that your house goes on the watch list. Then again they might see all your stuff and put you on a watch list as well....

[roberth]

No warrant, no searchee.

Exactly.

[Bailey Guns]

If I'm home, no need to search. However, the cops won't know if your refusal to allow a search is being made legitimately or under duress. My guess is they'd have a legal right to conduct a cursory search for the suspect and cite exigent circumstances. They may even have a legal right to arrest you if you refused. Not saying it's right, but there is precedent for that under these type of unusual circumstances.

If I wasn't home, yeah, they could take a look once I arrived on scene.

[Jumpstart]

No. "I have secured my house." Move on.

[RCCrawler]

I seriously doubt you could tell them no. If they want in they are coming in.

[Jumpstart]

I seriously doubt you could tell them no. If they want in they are coming in. True, however I don't cultivate the perception that it is okay for the state to enter my home without deferring through the proper channels and as per law.

[Bailey Guns]

Well, the law probably allows it without your permission under emergency circumstances.

[asmo]

Exigent circumstances...

Besides MA has electronic/phone-a-judge warrants...

You say "no", they make a phone call and in 5 minutes they have a warrant for everything in your house.

[robertcolorado2009]

Did you see the number of agents that were going into the houses? I was watching the news this am and there must have been 20 guys in full swat gear, each with full armor and m4's. or what ever. They looked like a football team of enormous physical size. I don;t think they would give you a choice. You'd have to take it up in court later. They were going to do what they wanted. I saw them coming out of a house they just searched and they more than filled and covered the outside of their vehicle. hanging on to hand holds all around the vehicle and off they went to the next house.

[buckshotbarlow]

there are not the droids you are looking for...move along, move along...

[Dave_L]

In all honesty, do you think these guys are really going to care what you have? I'd assume, as a lot have stated here in the past, that most LEO's are for the 2A. They're there to find a very bad dude. Hassle them, hold them up and when the finally do get in, I'm sure they'd be happy to return the favor.

[T-Giv]

Exigent circumstances...

Besides MA has electronic/phone-a-judge warrants...

You say "no", they make a phone call and in 5 minutes they have a warrant for everything in your house.

This. People think that telling the cops "Not without a warrant" means they are going to leave. They will have Officers hold the door and not let you shut the door while they call in a warrant. They'll be in your house in minutes. What a waste of time to get into a pissing match with the cops over not entering your residence when there is a serious threat still at large?

[PugnacAutMortem]

This. People think that telling the cops "Not without a warrant" means they are going to leave. They will have Officers hold the door and not let you shut the door while they call in a warrant. They'll be in your house in minutes. What a waste of time to get into a pissing match with the cops over not entering your residence when there is a serious threat still at large?

It sets a precedent to where they can claim "exigent circumstances" for whatever the hell reason they want though. Call it paranoid or whatever you want, but this whole locking down an entire city and sweeping house to house is going to become commonplace unless some folks stand up.

[Bailey Guns]

"Stand up" against the cops under these circumstances and see how that works out for ya.

Some of you guys don't seem to get the idea this isn't a normal circumstance. There are decades of precedent that allows for a search under emergency circumstances. This isn't something new.

[Rooskibar03]

So another hypothetical question. You know an armed and dangerous suspect is loose in your area so you arm yourself. Lets say it's with you AR or other preferred assault weapon of death.

You are on high alert in your own home and there is a knock on the door by SWAT or otherwise. Do you secure the weapon before opening the door? Do you return it to your safe or simply set aside away from the door and your person? Is there a protocol for such a situation?

[Cylinder Head]

If it means they catch this fucker I'd let them in, I'd even offer them a few PMAGs filled with the good stuff.

This panic in Boston is going to be good for 2A. How could you NOT want a gun after this fucker is running around a suburb trying to hide?

[hatidua]

Roughly how well do any of you think telling this crowd "NO" when they want to come in your house is going to work?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/pb-130419-boston-manhunt-04photoblog900_zps435566d3.jpg

[PugnacAutMortem]

"Stand up" against the cops under these circumstances and see how that works out for ya.

Some of you guys don't seem to get the idea this isn't a normal circumstance. There are decades of precedent that allows for a search under emergency circumstances. This isn't something new.

Nobody said it would go well to stand up, but it rarely ever does.

People who are ok with this house to house sweep...are you HONESTLY ok with shutting the whole city down as well?

[clublights]

So another hypothetical question. You know an armed and dangerous suspect is loose in your area so you arm yourself. Lets say it's with you AR or other preferred assault weapon of death.

You are on high alert in your own home and there is a knock on the door by SWAT or otherwise. Do you secure the weapon before opening the door? Do you return it to your safe or simply set aside away from the door and your person? Is there a protocol for such a situation?
THIS

That is why I feel like I would want to decline them entry..

cuz the second they come in the door and see the pistol or shotgun ( even uncle joes old double barrel) I'm gunna end up on the ground with a couple of m4's aimed at my skull while I get put in cuffs and dragged off... or what if one of them gets a bit jumpy and has an ND...

[Rooskibar03]

THIS

That is why I feel like I would want to decline them entry..

cuz the second they come in the door and see the pistol or shotgun ( even uncle joes old double barrel) I'm gunna end up on the ground with a couple of m4's aimed at my skull while I get put in cuffs and dragged off... or what if one of them gets a bit jumpy and has an ND...

Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one with this thought process.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one with this thought process.

I'm actually pretty surprised that among the 2A crowd here this is a minority viewpoint.

[clublights]

Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one with this thought process.


Well I started it off cuz I saw them doing it on video ...

I then looked around my house for a second. My AR happens to be sitting out at the moment. no real good reason other then I can't afford a safe but it was even out of the case and out of the hiding spot cuz I was fiddling with it yesterday.

I understand they are ratched up.. ... so I just worry about the side stuff happening cuz they are in a foul mood.. they lost one of their own and have another wounded.

But yeah they supposedly did reverse 911 calls the second I got that call the AR would have been locked and loaded, Eotech turned on and damn the batteries!.

[Ah Pook]

Okay, the SWAT team is at the door and wants to search the house for a dangerous criminal that is on the loose. Knowing they will be coming in, either by "Exigent circumstances" or by eventual warrant, by letting them in to search is the scope of their search just limited to the bad guy? Is a 30rnd AR mag on the table or a marijuana plant in the corner included in the scope of the search?




Edit: Gee, take 20min to type a question and the whole topic changes. [oops]

[Dave_L]

Also, this is another reason why I opt to live in a rural community. You don't see this stuff happening as much. Send the reverse 911 calls out and hope the criminal is dumb enough to enter a redneck's home. LOL.

Not to mention, if this were in Denver, you better not have that AR or 30 round mag. Then you might have something to worry about.

[clublights]

Also, this is another reason why I opt to live in a rural community. You don't see this stuff happening as much. Send the reverse 911 calls out and hope the criminal is dumb enough to enter a redneck's home. LOL.

Not to mention, if this were in Denver, you better not have that AR or 30 round mag. Then you might have something to worry about.


OF course I only have denver legal 20 round mags............... [Wink]

[Bailey Guns]

Nobody said it would go well to stand up, but it rarely ever does.

People who are ok with this house to house sweep...are you HONESTLY ok with shutting the whole city down as well?

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I was OK with it. I said it was most likely legal and would hold up under the exigent circumstances rule. And as far as I know, city officials only requested people stay at home/inside. It wasn't mandatory. I even heard the Boston mayor thanking people for complying with the "request".

[newracer]

I would not let them in.

[Cylinder Head]

OF course I only have denver legal 20 round mags............... [Wink]

Ditto.

[Dave]

So another hypothetical question. You know an armed and dangerous suspect is loose in your area so you arm yourself. Lets say it's with you AR or other preferred assault weapon of death.

You are on high alert in your own home and there is a knock on the door by SWAT or otherwise. Do you secure the weapon before opening the door? Do you return it to your safe or simply set aside away from the door and your person? Is there a protocol for such a situation?

This would be why I wouldn't let them in. I'd likely have at least my CCW gun on me and probably another home defense long gun in hand or within reach. If they barged in with itchy trigger fingers it wouldn't take much for the situation to get out of hand. They have stressful jobs in normal times, these officers doing this are likely right on the edge with everything in the last 18 or so hours.

[Dave_L]

I wish we could get an LEO to chime in to see how they'd typically react in this situation if someone said "I've been home the entire time, no one is here. My house is secure and safe. You can't come in."

[lex137]

This is what it will look like or worse if they ever try to take our arms away from us. Keep an eye on this cause this could be good practice for them.

[PugnacAutMortem]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say I was OK with it. I said it was most likely legal and would hold up under the exigent circumstances rule. And as far as I know, city officials only requested people stay at home/inside. It wasn't mandatory. I even heard the Boston mayor thanking people for complying with the "request".

Ah my apologies I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

[Bailey Guns]

I wish we could get an LEO to chime in to see how they'd typically react in this situation if someone said "I've been home the entire time, no one is here. My house is secure and safe. You can't come in."

I've never had a situation like this. However, it's no different than responding to a 911 hangup type call. Officer arrives and is greeted by a woman at the door who says everything is OK. Not good enough. The officer would try to determine through a few simple questions: are you saying that because everything's OK or because you were told to say that? Who else is in the house? Why do you seem nervous?

Then they'd ask to come in and check it out. Then they'd pretty much go in and check it out. Obviously it's not as critical as this situation is but you still have an obligation to ensure everyone is safe.

There are basically two types of 911 hangups. The type where the kid's playing on the phone and the type where some type of confrontation has occurred and now one party is saying everything is OK because they're afraid of the other.

[clublights]

Just an update.....

The News ( I have it on ABC local at the moment) is phone interviewing residents and apperently the police at entering every house. I dunno what the criteria is to enter or not enter but that seems to be happening .

[lowbeyond]

just wait til they cry exigent circumstances on the door to door gun and magazine confiscation or gun safety checks

if exigent circumstances is good enough for Boston, then its good enough for guns because public safety.

[Bailey Guns]

[facepalm]

[buffalobo]

Glad I live in rural setting. I think less likely to happen and more likely I will know officers personally. Otherwise my reluctance to let them in may get me in trouble.

Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2

[Stvros]

In a scenario like this I would go along to make it easier to catch this puke but my wife would not abide until she had time enough to clean the house up to snuff which means they would have to wait on the porch while I vacummed and scrubbed toilets and stashed clutter. Then when they came in she would apoligize ad nauseum about the condition of our home until they got sick of it pronto and left...

Seriously, I try to be law abiding and above board in my life and I'm not afraid YET that my possessions are cause for incarceration. My daughters room would have been good for a couple of pot charges before the election probably but not now... Again, nothing to hide but a messy house and pet stains.

[Chad4000]

yeah i was actually thinking about this myself... watch out the windows, youll be able to see them coming, stash weapons etc.

[newracer]

In a scenario like this I would go along to make it easier to catch this puke but my wife would not abide until she had time enough to clean the house up to snuff which means they would have to wait on the porch while I vacummed and scrubbed toilets and stashed clutter. Then when they came in she would apoligize ad nauseum about the condition of our home until they got sick of it pronto and left..

I didn't even think of that. We may be married to the same woman.

[Dave_L]

I've never had a situation like this. However, it's no different than responding to a 911 hangup type call. Officer arrives and is greeted by a woman at the door who says everything is OK. Not good enough. The officer would try to determine through a few simple questions: are you saying that because everything's OK or because you were told to say that? Who else is in the house? Why do you seem nervous?

Then they'd ask to come in and check it out. Then they'd pretty much go in and check it out. Obviously it's not as critical as this situation is but you still have an obligation to ensure everyone is safe.

There are basically two types of 911 hangups. The type where the kid's playing on the phone and the type where some type of confrontation has occurred and now one party is saying everything is OK because they're afraid of the other.

That's kind of my point. The LE are on a mission to find this guy. I can't see them just being like "Oh, Ok, have a nice day." if you refuse to let them in.

[brobar]

I understand why people wouldn't want to comply with such a request. Really... I do. I'm leaning towards the side of I'm actually glad to see it happening. I'm thinking the off chance that I'm not home, the suspect enters the home and takes my wife and family hostage... I don't think I would really want the law enforcement officers to just go "oh... you say everything is fine... good... have a nice day". I would want them following up and insuring their safety. If I were home and I knew our house was secure... I would take it on a case-by-case basis but in this instance, I would say the house is secure but come on in and clear it for yourselves. I would do that because I would want them making sure my family was safe if I wasn't home... it would make their job easier to just comply and give them a few minutes to clear the house and move on down the street to where maybe one of our neighbors is being held hostage.

I understand people's desire to puff out the chest and beat it while screaming about rights. I completely get it! And I don't expect everyone to act the same way I would do in the exact same dangerous and potentially deadly situation that is going on right now in that area. But for me, on a case-by-case basis... in THIS case... I would do everything I can to help and for me, the best way to help would be to show them as quickly as possible that our house is clear so they can move on and make sure my neighbors and the rest of the neighborhood is safe.

I know... I'm a pansy for wanting to help the officers catch the guy and giving up a few moments of rights to assist them. Sue me! It all depends on the unique circumstances of the situation.

[strm_trpr]

I would say no

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Right or wrong my answer would be...........Go To Hell. They have ZERO right to come into my home & search it.

This is how we loss our freedom & liberty.

[cstone]

In this case, if you lived in Watertown, you would know why the police want to enter your house when they knock on your door. Does that knowledge influence your response to the officers at the door? What if you did not know why the police were at your door? Would that influence your response?

Given what you know right now, if you were in a position of authority and trying to protect innocent citizens in the community, how would you find this criminal? What orders would you give to the officers and agents working for you?

I am not familiar with Massachusetts state law, however, I believe the police would be permitted an exigent search under the current circumstances. Even if the police were not legally permitted to search, it would take a foolish individual to violently resist a tactical entry team, while your wife and children are in the house with you. If the police err in executing searches, the time to fight them is another day in a courtroom.

If you have contraband items in plain view in your house, you have different issues. There are many other ways of dealing with contraband rather than getting into a fire fight with your family in harms way. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.

Oh, and my default position is, "I do not consent to any search of my person or domicile." Legal or illegal, the search will probably take place and I will deal with the consequences afterward.

Be safe.

[SuperiorDG]

Roughly how well do any of you think telling this crowd "NO" when they want to come in your house is going to work?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/pb-130419-boston-manhunt-04photoblog900_zps435566d3.jpg

The thing is if this BG guy was loose in my hood and I was with the family I would be dressed just like these guys. What would they think when I come to the door in full kit?

[BushMasterBoy]

Wasn't James Holmes dressed in SWAT gear? And no I would not answer the door...

[TFOGGER]

In this case, if you lived in Watertown, you would know why the police want to enter your house when they knock on your door. Does that knowledge influence your response to the officers at the door? What if you did not know why the police were at your door? Would that influence your response?

Given what you know right now, if you were in a position of authority and trying to protect innocent citizens in the community, how would you find this criminal? What orders would you give to the officers and agents working for you?

I am not familiar with Massachusetts state law, however, I believe the police would be permitted an exigent search under the current circumstances. Even if the police were not legally permitted to search, it would take a foolish individual to violently resist a tactical entry team, while your wife and children are in the house with you. If the police err in executing searches, the time to fight them is another day in a courtroom.

If you have contraband items in plain view in your house, you have different issues. There are many other ways of dealing with contraband rather than getting into a fire fight with your family in harms way. Sometimes you just have to pick your battles.

Oh, and my default position is, "I do not consent to any search of my person or domicile." Legal or illegal, the search will probably take place and I will deal with the consequences afterward.

Be safe.

What was legal last week may become contraband next week...

[Aloha_Shooter]

Nobody said it would go well to stand up, but it rarely ever does.

People who are ok with this house to house sweep...are you HONESTLY ok with shutting the whole city down as well?

Under the circumstances presented? Yes. Then again, I don't have any problem with Abe Lincoln's temporary suspension of habeas corpus under the circumstances he had. This isn't the house-to-house sweep looking for stuff to confiscate that gives Bloomberg, Morse and Obama wet dreams, this is looking for an active threat to YOUR COMMUNITY. The kid has already shown his willingness to kill indiscriminately and inflict massive casualties on the community at large. Could these "emergency powers" be abused -- damned straight they can because they have been in the past but that doesn't mean they're being abused NOW.

[OneGuy67]

They have a sole purpose and that is to find the suspect, whom they have identified. They know what he looks like. They are not going to care at that time if you have a firearm, or the pot plant in the corner. They are looking for the suspect and that is it.

[clworth22]

Right or wrong my answer would be...........Go To Hell. They have ZERO right to come into my home & search it.

This is how we loss our freedom & liberty.
Well said, thank you!!! Chipping away our freedoms and liberties piece by piece. Then one day it will all be non existent.

[asmo]

Roughly how well do any of you think telling this crowd "NO" when they want to come in your house is going to work?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/pb-130419-boston-manhunt-04photoblog900_zps435566d3.jpg

The facial expression on the big black guy in the back is great -- "We ain't found shit!"

[Mtn.man]

Police are telling residents to stay inside lock your doors and don't answer for anybody.

OK so "I ain't answering the door go away"

That should work.

[Dave]

Police are telling residents to stay inside lock your doors and don't answer for anybody.

OK so "I ain't answering the door go away"

That should work.

Dave's not here man... [ROFL1]

[Rooskibar03]

Go ahead give up more freedom to be "safe". It will be ok.

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/cmuthard03/293B141B-98C9-41AC-A5A3-3FD17D671B34-9696-000004BA766D703C_zpsebd3fdc1.jpg

[SuperiorDG]

This is where I would want to be held up.

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/photography/2013/04/boston_bomber_manhunt/130419_PHOTO_MANHUNTBOSTON_026.jpg.CROP.article920-large.jpg

Curious and "freaked out," Kaitlan Wilson, left, and Jen Jones look out on Palfrey Street from their apartment during the ongoing manhunt for a suspect in the terrorist bombing of the 117th Boston Marathon earlier this week. Under a lockdown, residents of Watertown are trapped in their homes.
Photo by Bill Greene/The Boston Globe/Getty Images

[sellersm]

But they really only need to do this when the population can't defend themselves on their own... This is a situation that these people have put themselves in. Many, many, thousands of 'trades' ago, is when this all started. A little safety here, a little safety there.

[Great-Kazoo]

Right or wrong my answer would be...........Go To Hell. They have ZERO right to come into my home & search it.

This is how we loss our freedom & liberty.


Well said, thank you!!! Chipping away our freedoms and liberties piece by piece. Then one day it will all be non existent.


Both of you as well as others are forgetting 1 important item.

PATRIOT ACT> TERRORISM there is no sorry, warrant etc. A TERRORIST IS ON THE LOOSE.
FWIW: I know about 1/2 doz of the guys doing D-D There are looking for 1 thing, The "suspect" .

I doubt they care if you're filming under age porno. Unless one of them fits the description, or it's their daughter!

Word of advice. Don't start writing checks with your mouth, Your body can't cash.

[Boadie30]

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm251/cmuthard03/293B141B-98C9-41AC-A5A3-3FD17D671B34-9696-000004BA766D703C_zpsebd3fdc1.jpg

So^^^THIS^^^ Is what it would look like.....

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah. That's what it would look like. A bunch of cops standing around NOT violating anyone's rights while looking for someone who's killed 4 people (that we know of) and tried to kill hundreds more.

[Boadie30]

Yeah. That's what it would look like. A bunch of cops standing around NOT violating anyone's rights while looking for someone who's killed 4 people (that we know of) and tried to kill hundreds more.

Do not get me wrong for I do not believe it will be cops and I am not referring to this event...

[Aloha_Shooter]

Some of you all here remind me of Tom Cruise's character in "Taps". This is the kind of stuff that liberals love to caricature and use to paint all gun owners and supporters of the Second Amendment as paranoid extremists.

[Sharpienads]

I fail to see how LE or any other agency asking if they can search your house is a violation of your rights. Give consent, or don't.

[kidicarus13]

I fail to see how LE or any other agency asking if they can search your house is a violation of your rights. Give consent, or don't.

It's already been discussed that when the crew arrives consent will be taken when you answer the door ...based on exigent circumstances of course.

[Boadie30]

Some of you all here remind me of Tom Cruise's character in "Taps". This is the kind of stuff that liberals love to caricature and use to paint all gun owners and supporters of the Second Amendment as paranoid extremists.

Oh calm down.. They will even take your comments out of context and use... Ur on a gun site... Really Tom Cruise?? Embarrassing..

[Sharpienads]

It's already been discussed that when the crew arrives consent will be taken when you answer the door ...based on exigent circumstances of course.

Is that what the police are doing there in Boston?

[Bailey Guns]

Is that what the police are doing there in Boston?

Haven't you heard? The real terrorists are the police who are conducting illegal warrantless searches and violating everyone's rights.

[hollohas]

So they found the 2nd guy hiding in a boat in a backyard only 15 minutes after letting the sheeple out of their houses. Who would have though 2 million more eyes not hiding in their houses with the shades drawn might actually help find this guy sooner? Oh yeah, any one with common sense.

[Boadie30]

So they found the 2nd guy hiding in a boat in a backyard only 15 minutes after letting the sheeple out of their houses. Who would have though 2 million more eyes not hiding in their houses with the shades drawn might actually help find this guy sooner? Oh yeah, any one with common sense.

^^This^^ "A man walked out of his house"....finally...."saw blood"...

[jreifsch80]

well if there were were actually a terrorist here that they were searching for i'd have my 74 charged kobra on and bayo fixed lol (looks scary at least) and if cops pounded on my door id hopefully have seen them going door to door and would have secured my rifle, i'd open the door and let them search for the reasons being they're arent there for me or my stuff and it would get them on their way faster (not that i agree but the patriot act screws us) if they were rounding up guns it would be a very different scenario

[DangerLee_Industries]

In this situation I'd bake them all some cookies and tell them to come on in. They are risking their lives to keep civilians safe from a lunatic. To me it has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with catching a frikkin terrorist. This kid just took part in killing and injuring innocent people. I would do anything and everything in my power to assist them in catching him.

I have nothing to hide but if it was a random Tuesday and they wanted to come in, now that's a different story...

[johngraves2]

well looks like my points have already been made, so i won't restate them.

I would answer the door with my CCW holstered and my wife with the home defense sling armed in the background. I would say I have cleared my whole house and backyard and he is not here, you guys can go down to the next property, if i see anything i will let you all know.

end of story. no reason for them to come in.

[cstone]

Depending on the type of entry, you may not get to do much talking.

Sometimes the decision is; resist or comply. Both have consequences, for you and the officers making the entry.

In general, I prefer to be a live participant in judicial proceedings rather than a deceased party to a civil suit.

Think ahead... Think fast.

Be safe.

[cmailliard]

I let them in, I have NOTHING TO HIDE. Nothing in my house is illegal. I have had SWAT in my house before, I wasn't even home. They had a barricaded suspect 4 houses down, only there were no houses, just open lots, very exposed, very dangerous. My house also had the same floorplan as the target house. I called dispatch and told them they could use my house as the staging area and to practice. They got the guy and I got a nice letter from the Mayor and Chief of Police. I realize I am in the minority here but for me and my background in Public Safety I guess I still want to help whenever I can, and if they can check another house of the list quickly and without issue the faster and safer the incident may be over.

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Haven't you heard? The real terrorists are the police who are conducting illegal warrantless searches and violating everyone's rights.

It remains to be seen who the "REAL" terrorist are now & in the future. But your welcome to do as you please.........as long as .Gov says it's ok.

[frozenmud]

A couple of thoughts/questions.

If no one was home were they kicking doors and making entry anyways?

While conducting the search and they find your stash of illegal of Mexican cat food, can you be prosecuted if the evidence was found during a "exigent terrorist search"?

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Both of you as well as others are forgetting 1 important item.

PATRIOT ACT> TERRORISM there is no sorry, warrant etc. A TERRORIST IS ON THE LOOSE.
FWIW: I know about 1/2 doz of the guys doing D-D There are looking for 1 thing, The "suspect" .

I doubt they care if you're filming under age porno. Unless one of them fits the description, or it's their daughter!

Word of advice. Don't start writing checks with your mouth, Your body can't cash.


I believe the Patriot Act is unconstitutional & if I choose to stand against it........................then "I'm filming porno with underage girls" & that's the reason I don't want them in my home?

WOW.

That sounds like the kind of statement that comes from liberal mouths.

I guess I shouldn't make a fuss though........I'll just be quiet, get in line & do as I'm told. .GOV knows whats best for us all, now & forever.

[Great-Kazoo]

I believe the Patriot Act is unconstitutional & if I choose to stand against it........................then "I'm filming porno with underage girls" & that's the reason I don't want them in my home?

WOW.

That sounds like the kind of statement that comes from liberal mouths.

I guess I shouldn't make a fuss though........I'll just be quiet, get in line & do as I'm told. .GOV knows whats best for us all, now & forever.

Far from it and until the PA is repealed we are screwed. But since you don't know me feel FREE to judge from behind your keyboard.

[DingleBerns]

Hypothetical: what happens when one of suspect #2's accomplices lets him in (he was near his own neighborhood). SWAT comes knocking, accomplice comes to door "with gun slinged" and says "I already checked the house, I will call you guys if I see anything."

If everyone takes this approach, how does this help the situation? It doesn't. I understand the constitution as I protect it every day, but this is a different situation then the government going door to door searching houses for no good reason.

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Far from it and until the PA is repealed we are screwed. But since you don't know me feel FREE to judge from behind your keyboard.

The only judgment made was a fact. You made this statement “I doubt they care if you're filming under age porno.” not I.

Reasoning that my disagreement stemmed from somehorrible, disgusting illegal activity I’m engaging in behind closed doors.

Statements like that get men killed if there said face to face………..Would you be ok if someone said you’re a child rapist?

Who is really “hiding behind their keyboard” now?

Maybe you just made a bad analogy & I’m overreacting………

[Clint45]

Maybe you just made a bad analogy & I’m overreacting………

^ This

[cstone]

I have spent some time searching for anyone in Watertown posting incidents where LEOs entered residences without consent, and I haven't found any. If anyone finds evidence that LEOs in Watertown entered occupied dwellings without the consent of the owners/occupants, please post a link here.

These are all very interesting academic discussions and I am glad we live in a country where we can still discuss our options if/when the circumstances arrive where we must make a decision.

Here is an interesting blog post discussion: http://myfreedomfoundation.com/blog/liberty-live/detail/can-the-police-search-my-home-for-a-bomber

Be safe.

[muddywings]

I talked about this for a bit with my father-in-law. As a former LEO (only a few years) and my father in law as a retired LEO, my initial gut reaction was....get an F'n warrent you PIG. Honestly, my father-in-law agreed.
After some internal debate I agreed with the OP; they got a tough job.
"Sure, come in, look for the bad guy, go to next house. Thank you for what you are doing. Be safe!"

HOWEVER...AFTER THIS:


http://youtu.be/vqJUam-KKcY

"Yes sir. I'll put my hands on my head and walk out." (get to the cleared area) "Please tell me who the supervisor is and I would like a business card. Thank you, be safe Mr. Police Officer."

Ring Ring "Mr. Attorney, I'm suing the shit of the PD for illegal search. I have the card of the PoPo in charge."

This one not as dramatic:


http://youtu.be/cBKCnJPFO5I

sorry for the "wordyness." I was cooking dinner and typing/researching at the same time.
Basically I went from:
Hell no, get a warrant
to:
Ok, feel free to search, be careful.
Back to:
F-N and BTW, I'll be calling a lawyer soon.

Our legal system favors the innocent. It would rather see a guilty person walk free than put an innocent person in jail. When cops start treating everybody as guilty upon first contact, even in high stress situations like this, then they are doing it WRONG. Unless they can articulate that they had a credible tip that made them feel the suspects where in THAT house, the way they treated those people were uncalled for. Let's just get rid of warrants all together and just go with no-knock (warrantless) searches while we are at it. With this display, the terrorists are winning (still).

[hollohas]

The first video above sure doesn't look like the occupants were very consenting. Hands on their heads and not allowed to even be present during the search. Sure, ask them to keep their hands on their heads for the officers safety...but make them run down the street?!?! Come on, that sure appears to be overboard.

That being said, was that a clown house? How many people were in there?

[Stvros]

I thought the same thing - LOL !

The first video above sure doesn't look like the occupants were very consenting. Hands on their heads and not allowed to even be present during the search. Sure, ask them to keep their hands on their heads for the officers safety...but make them run down the street?!?! Come on, that sure appears to be overboard.

That being said, was that a clown house? How many people were in there?

[muddywings]

That being said, was that a clown house? How many people were in there?

Yeah, i was wondering that.... but I figured they had family from the neighborhood staying over glued to the boobtube or something.
Looking back, because they didn't go house to house, I now wonder if they had a tip.

[Bailey Guns]

Yeah, i was wondering that.... but I figured they had family from the neighborhood staying over glued to the boobtube or something.
Looking back, because they didn't go house to house, I now wonder if they had a tip.

Exactly. What led them to focus on that particular house and occupants? I'm not willing to pass judgment until I have a lot more information than a video.

[Skully]

That first video I bet with enough press that could get some hopefully some sort of rebuttal.

[Boadie30]

The pounding on the door... I ve already deleated a couple of posts... words are escaping me..

[muddywings]

Exactly. What led them to focus on that particular house and occupants? I'm not willing to pass judgment until I have a lot more information than a video.

I guess here is my trouble: they're not chasing the guy into the house so you don't have hot pursuit/extigent circumstances. They have a small army there so the house is most likely surrounded. Do they not have a judge nearby that can sign off on a warrant?
knock knock "search warrant"
i guess martial law has its perks but again I'm sure I'm missing something from the puzzle--at least I hope so.

[wARmachine15]

I'd answer the door all Tactical Fudd - "Hell yes you boys can come on in. I'll take point. Lets do this!!"

But seriously I would let them in to clear the house for my own peace of mind. A few years ago I came home to a burglary. I went to my safe, got my weapon and cleared the house. I've been trained to clear houses in the military but still ok'd the police to do it when they arrived. Democracy didn't fall and the Constitution didn't burn any faster than it already is because of that decision.

[Bailey Guns]

I'd answer the door all Tactical Fudd - "Hell yes you boys can come on in. I'll take point. Lets do this!!"

Best response I've seen yet.


But seriously I would let them in to clear the house for my own peace of mind. A few years ago I came home to a burglary. I went to my safe, got my weapon and cleared the house. I've been trained to clear houses in the military but still ok'd the police to do it when they arrived. Democracy didn't fall and the Constitution didn't burn any faster than it already is because of that decision.

Oh, yes it did. Didn't you hear? There was MARTIAL LAW in Boston.

[facepalm]

[hollohas]

Exactly. What led them to focus on that particular house and occupants? I'm not willing to pass judgment until I have a lot more information than a video.

That thought had crossed my mind too. They certainly put more effort into that house then most others I have seen in other videos. So maybe they did have a tip. However, if they did have a tip to that house which would explain the entry, then why didn't they detain the occupants? Letting the occupants walk down the street uncontrolled doesnt jive with the possiblity the house had the BG.

And BTW, I'm not passing judgement either, that's way above my pay grade. I don't KNOW what happened there, but that doesn't keep me from asking questions for the sake of thoughtful discussion.

[Byte Stryke]

Rights that can be suspended are more commonly known as Priveleges.

[Aloha_Shooter]

That thought had crossed my mind too. They certainly put more effort into that house then most others I have seen in other videos. So maybe they did have a tip. However, if they did have a tip to that house which would explain the entry, then why didn't they detain the occupants? Letting the occupants walk down the street uncontrolled doesnt jive with the possiblity the house had the BG.

You don't think it's possible they simply had a tip about the suspect hiding there and wanted to get the residents out and safe before any firefight began? They already knew what/who they were looking for so simple visual inspection would tell you they weren't him.

[hollohas]

You don't think it's possible they simply had a tip about the suspect hiding there and wanted to get the residents out and safe before any firefight began? They already knew what/who they were looking for so simple visual inspection would tell you they weren't him.

Yup, that's possible too. But that's no less of an assumption. I come from a long time LE family and have a lot of respect for the badge. But like I said before, there is nothing wrong with thought provoking discussion about the implications and possible issues with the way things were done in Boston. I am not, nor will I come to any conclusions on this topic. I am in no position to determine what was right or wrong, but that won't stop me from having questions. No process, no agency and no individual is perfect. Asking questions is what makes things better.

Here's two little tidbits that have made me think:

1) Neither the police, military, FBI or martial law found the BG. A private citizen did, right after the "shelter in place" demand was lifted.
2) Many people are hesitant to use events they see on video's to question the tactics used in Boston. But don't forget, they used VIDEO to ID they suspects. If video is enough to accuse the bad guys, why isn't it is enough to merely question the tactics used by the good guys?

[Boadie30]

Everyone (I in my job) who works for the government (city, state, feds, military) should understand that they work for the people... The people are our bosses, supervisors etc.. I get questioned constantly and treated like fricking trash, I get paid to deal with it.. Too many times I see my peers and subordinates, my leaders and other city, state, feds, military treat the citizenry like ass and assume they are sheep.

[dwalker460]

A couple of things-

I have a serious issue with allowing armed men I do not know anywhere near my wife and family, especially under "heightened" circumstances. I would also be really pissed if I was told to remove myself from my house, with my hands on my head, treated like a perp for simply being in my home.

Second, go get the warrant. Conduct a warrantless search based on the threat of arrest, detainment, or physical injury? Sure, go ahead. Hitler did.

Also let me point out that lets argue for a minute that the terrorist had actually holed up in someones house, holding them hostage. So the cops come to the door, ask to search, get told no, and then what? They bust in and get the homeowners killed in a gunfight? Sounds exactly like police thinking.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Orin Kerr's statement on house-to-house searches from the Volokh Conspiracy (emphasis added by me):


House-to-House Searches and the Fourth Amendment (http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/19/house-to-house-searches-and-the-fourth-amendment/)
Orin Kerr (http://www.volokh.com/author/orin/) • April 19, 2013 7:21 pm


Current events in Boston raise the question of whether the Fourth Amendment allows the government to conduct house-to-house searches for an armed and dangerous suspect on the loose. Assume the police enter a home without consent searching for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev; does the entry violate the Fourth Amendment? The answer depends on whether such home entries are “reasonable” under the Fourth Amendment, which requires a case-by-case balancing of the government’s interest in making the searches and the scope of the privacy invasion. The constitutional question would seem to depend on whether the searches are reasonably limited in scope (such as limited to a specific geographic area), the dangerousness of the suspect (here, very high), and the strength of the government’s case that the suspect may be in the area and cannot be caught another way. Fortunately there aren’t a lot of cases on anything like we’re seeing in Boston, at least as far as I could find. The closest cases I know of involve roadblocks instead of home searches, which is in the ballpark of dragnet searches and seizures but not particularly close on the facts. See, e.g., City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000) (noting in dicta that “the Fourth Amendment would almost certainly permit an appropriately tailored roadblock set up to thwart an imminent terrorist attack or to catch a dangerous criminal who is likely to flee by way of a particular route.”); United States v. Paetsch, — F.Supp.2d —-, 2012 WL 5213011 (D.Colo. 2012) (http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2012/us-dragnet.pdf) (dragnet roadblock at intersection to catch bank robber held reasonable under the Fourth Amendment).
Note that caselaw on these sorts of facts are particularly unlikely for reasons beyond the fortunate rarity of their occurrence. The suspect won’t have Fourth Amendment standing to bring a suit or a motion to suppress to challenge a search of someone else’s house in which he was hiding. See Rakas v. Illinois (http://www.ar-15.co/www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/439/128), 439 U.S. 128 (1978) (http://www.ar-15.co/www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/439/128). As a result, only the legitimate residents could bring such actions in a civil case. And if they did bring such suits, qualified immunity would bar recovery unless the violation was clearly established — which is unlikely here given the novelty of the facts.

[muddywings]

I guess here is my concern. You got a mad bomber in the loose who has shot and killed a cop on top of his bombing deaths. I'm told to shelter in place. I'm sitting there with my gun on my hip and my AR besides me when I hear *BANG BANG BANG* against my front door. I grab my AR, peak out the front window and see the cops.
Choose your own adventure here:
A. Answer the door with my weapons in hand.
B. Ask the cops what is the issue through the door and tell them I want to see a search warrant.
C. Tell the cops to wait while I dearm myself. (and hope they don't bust the door down and blaze away-FYI, I have a dog so this doesn't bode well for her)

Now I'm sure for all those anti-gunners in BeanTown, this wouldn't be a problem. At my house, it would be.

Thoughts?

[asmo]

Orin Kerr's statement on house-to-house searches from the Volokh Conspiracy (emphasis added by me):


the searches are reasonably limited in scope (such as limited to a specific geographic area)



Back in my day "limited in scope" meant a particular item or very specific place (desk, briefcase, safe, etc)... Then limited scope meant whole rooms and attached locations.. Now it means whole subdivisions.. Next I guess it means whole towns..

Slippery slope indeed.

[muddywings]

I'll freely admit that I'm ignorant about Martial Law. I'm to lazy to look it up while at work so if anybody can advise me what they can/cannot do when declaring martial law, i would like to know. I have my own internal gut opinion but would like to hear more.
Can they suspend 2A via Katrina?? hmmm.....

[asmo]

Can they suspend 2A via Katrina?? hmmm.....

They have in the past - in Katrina. There was a law passed after to prevent that from happening again without a good cause.

[muddywings]

They have in the past - in Katrina. There was a law passed after to prevent that from happening again without a good cause.

Right, so there has to be another law saying you can't violate 2A or 4A or 5A or hell 3A, even during Martial Law, or else it's free game? Seems kinda odd. I have the right to keep/bare arms right until the SHTF, then big brother just rolls in with martial law and poof, my rights go away?
Honestly, I'm a bit ignorant here so I'm asking....

[Aloha_Shooter]

I guess here is my concern. You got a mad bomber in the loose who has shot and killed a cop on top of his bombing deaths. I'm told to shelter in place. I'm sitting there with my gun on my hip and my AR besides me when I hear *BANG BANG BANG* against my front door. I grab my AR, peak out the front window and see the cops.
Choose your own adventure here:
A. Answer the door with my weapons in hand.
B. Ask the cops what is the issue through the door and tell them I want to see a search warrant.
C. Tell the cops to wait while I dearm myself. (and hope they don't bust the door down and blaze away-FYI, I have a dog so this doesn't bode well for her)

Now I'm sure for all those anti-gunners in BeanTown, this wouldn't be a problem. At my house, it would be.

Thoughts?

What's wrong with Option D: Set the AR down and answer the door politely with pistol holstered and hands in view?

You've already established (by peeking through the window) that it's cops at your door rather than gangbangers or Mafioso. Rather than make them wait (which can make them edgy), why not show you're not a threat? Why is it so many people here feel they have to treat the cops as if they were invading Russian paratroopers?

The one time I was stopped while carrying, I kept my hands on the steering wheel in plain sight. I didn't pull my piece, demand a warrant, or tell the trooper to stay in his car while I dearmed.

[GilpinGuy]

Mike Rosen had a pretty good discussion with Cully Stimson from the Heritage Foundation on Monday morning about this exact subject.
LINK (http://downloads.iheartradio.com/media/station_content/668/Rosen04-22-13-09AM_1366654213_8645.mp3)