Help me plan/purchase my first LR build/buy

[muddywings]

Been lurking in this forum, reading up on LR stuff when work is slow and thought I would throw out a recommendation request for all the experts in here to skool this noob.

Let me throw out some thoughts, ideas and parameters for you to chomp on.

I recently got into competition shooting (3 Gun) as I was tired of just poking holes in paper and I’m enjoying it. My wife likes to shoot to but 3 Gun really isn’t her thing. She might get into Tac-Rifle but she would really like a nice long range/precision rifle. Likewise, as a novice prepper, I thinking having something that can reach out and touch someone would be good to have in the stable. You know…for when the zombies come ;)

I’m looking at a 12month research/procurement timeframe. (I researched my AR for about 3 months before plunging and it took about another 5 months to get it done). My wife just finished school so getting our finances to stabilize a tad is a priority first, so I’ve got some time on my side.

I’m a buy once/cry once type of guy.

From what I understand there are a lot of great round choices, I want to stick with a .308 round. From my understanding, 7.62NATO will work with that (maybe not so much vice versa—kinda like .223 and 5.56 but in reverse) and once the zombies are done eating the faces of all the army guys, there will be plenty of ammo around. (I’m kidding about the zombie thing….sorta). Also, from what I understand is that will put me with a short action vs long action. Since my wife is 5’3 and I’m a towering 5’6, I ‘think’ that is good for people of our stature.

This won’t be a bench gun. Shooting prone and moving with it will be on the requirements list so I don’t think an epically long barrel is in order. I am open to suggestions though on what length would be a good fit under these various parameters.

Rolling back to the competition aspect, I think my wife (and maybe myself) would like to show to the matches on occasion but more to hone our own skills and learn than be out there to win. (hence, even though I buy once cry once-I don’t need the most advance rifle on the market)

I would like to have a threaded barrel for a suppressor down the road but that is not on the 12 month timeframe. Would it be simpler to remove that option and just worry about getting it threaded or remove/replaced down the road?

I’m heavily leaning to magazine fed just for the prepper aspect of the purchase. Thoughts?

I really don’t think this will matter but my wife shoots lefty and I’m a normal person.

Obviously looking at Remington and Savage but is there a better way?

Range? I want to be able to hit the moon! Ok, really, I think it depends on my price point (further below), ammo and range time so really, I’m not looking for anything amazing out the door but something inexperienced shooters can grow in to.

I’m getting a bit overwhelmed at all the glass options (and costs; see next line). Good info in this thread: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88319-Beginner-here-need-advice-on-glass I’m leaning towards mils vs. moa and FFP other than that, I’m still digging.

Ok, so down to the limfac here—I’m thinking about the $2500 range +/- $500 (smoking crack?). I figure I’ll need a lot of other things other than just a nice gun and scope…like ammo, rangefinders and other necessities that don’t come free.

Any thoughts from the crowd? Feel free to answer one, some or none (I mean all) of the points as you feel. Or tell me what questions I didn’t ask!

Thanks guys....

[Goodburbon]

DPMS LR-308 and reloading setup. Varget/168s or 175s.

It gets you Well Below MOA, magazine fed with upgrades galore. Reloading setup will yield MUCHO accuracy.

[davsel]

For what it's worth, I have a friend in NM who upgraded to a Savage 10BA in .308 with a Shepherd BDC Scope.
We regularly shoot the silhouettes out to 500 meters down at the Whittington Center, and it gets rather boring with his setup.
When new shooters, often women, are with us, he puts them behind the rifle and they make first shot hits 9 out of 10 times all the way out to 500.

ETA: He's a 5'7" lefty.

[MarkCO]

There are a few good deals on some .308 bolt guns on here that might fit the bill. One is a project in the making with some good options...http://www.ar-15.co/threads/100425-The-Help-me-move-sale!

And here is the action to go with the barrel...you can get one for each of you: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/100219-Remington-700-Action-(S-A-308-bolt)

[Delfuego]

I’m a buy once/cry once type of guy. If this is true... Then you should save up and get a Accuracy International AX with at least a Nightforce scope. But that will blow your budget out the window. On the positive side, you wont ever (likely) have gear envy (or an excuse for misses).


Range? I want to be able to hit the moon! Ok, really, I think it depends on my price point (further below), ammo and range time so really, I’m not looking for anything amazing out the door but something inexperienced shooters can grow in to. You should narrow it down to (1) Minute of bad guy at 500y (2) Minute of gnat's ass at 800+. This will help you between a AR10/LR308 or a bolt rifle.


I’m getting a bit overwhelmed at all the glass options (and costs; see next line). Good info in this thread: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/88319-Beginner-here-need-advice-on-glass I’m leaning towards mils vs. moa and FFP other than that, I’m still digging. Go Mil/Mil with FFP for sure, and budget $1000-$2000 just like the other thread lead you to believe.


This won’t be a bench gun. Shooting prone and moving with it will be on the requirements list so I don’t think an epically long barrel is in order. I am open to suggestions though on what length would be a good fit under these various parameters. Barrel length will also depend on how far you plan on shooting regularly. If you decide on a .243 or .260 caliber, then the extra barrel length helps.


Dont be discouraged though, you can shoot precision with less money. My first setup was a Savage 10 FCP with a Leupold 6.5-20. But... the bug took hold and I upgraded to a .260 R700 AICS & FFP Mil/Mil scope (well over $3k now). You should really decide what the rifle needs to do and if you really are a "buy once, cry once" kinda guy.
Good luck! [Beer]

[muddywings]

Reloading setup will yield MUCHO accuracy.

That is also on the to-do/research list.

[muddywings]

There are a few good deals on some .308 bolt guns on here that might fit the bill. One is a project in the making with some good options...http://www.ar-15.co/threads/100425-The-Help-me-move-sale!

And here is the action to go with the barrel...you can get one for each of you: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/100219-Remington-700-Action-(S-A-308-bolt)

Saw them....tempting but the timing isn't quite right...must resist!

[muddywings]

If this is true... Then you should save up and get a Accuracy International AX with at least a Nightforce scope. But that will blow your budget out the window. On the positive side, you wont ever (likely) have gear envy (or an excuse for misses).

You should narrow it down to (1) Minute of bad guy at 500y (2) Minute of gnat's ass at 800+. This will help you between a AR10/LR308 or a bolt rifle.


But I'll need excuses for my misses!

Unfortunately there has to be a balance between, buy once/cry once and money is no object. What I don't want to do is get a low end Rem700 with some crappy walmart glass and have to upgrade quickly. Likewise, I don't know how dedicated my wife will want to get into the LR shooting. So basically, I'm looking for a platform that is rugid, solid performer for if SHTF but likewise, something she and i could grow into. I understand if she develops a very strong passion and has the skills for it, there is a chance it could be a starter rifle for something bigger and badder latter on. However I am not sure if that will be the end case so a higher percentage chance that we would stop and be happy with what I tried to describe. (but probably failed to do so)

While an AR10 is on the dream sheet for "nice to have" I plan on sticking to a bolt gun. I would like to be able to get out past 500 yards.

[islandermyk]

You know what?
The only thing you should be really crying once for is a scope. A rifle is like a car/truck/jeep/motorcycle... you can keep throwing money into it and it will never end [Coffee]



have fun and enjoy... [Beer]

[C Ward]

Lots of info here ,
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/

http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-shooting/


An acceptable FFP scope with matching graduations is going to start at 1500ish for the Bushnell HDMR and go up from there . Either one , Rem or Savage , will work fine and is personal preference . I'm partial to the Remington's myself and the aftermarket has way more support for them than the Savage . Spend the extra money up front for a good stock or plan on upgrading from the injection molded junk from the get go .

Go to one of the match's at PWSA and ask questions is the best advice that I can give . The precision rifle game has a steep and expensive learning curve and talking with the guy's there and learning from the mistakes we made makes things easier .

[Delfuego]

I would recommend:
Savage 10/110 w/heavy barrel
Remington 700 SPS Tac is 20" heavy; ACC is 20" w/heavy & threaded and add a Bell & Carlson stock
Remington 700 5R w/HS Precision stock (good barrel, ok stock) Check them out at Mile High Shooting Accessories!
Tikka are supposed to be real nice, but not a lot of aftermarket stuff

All would do fine for what you are looking for and leave you money for glass (and bipod/LRF/Spotter).
You can add detachable mags, triggers and tons of other parts as you see fit.

[MarkCO]

I only really started 3Gun in 2006 and I still have some to do, but I will tell you this...3Gun and LR are both expensive and consuming. Doing both at once is probably asking for a train wreck. I've built low end (a Rem SPS AAC in .308 with a Burris MTAC on it) and mid-grade (Rem 700 with good aftermarket parts in .260 sitting in an AICS with Atlas parts and a Vortex PST on top) LR rigs that will both take a good suppressor. I spent a good chunk of time on a AR-10 .260 that I eventually sold after realizing some big differences between bolt guns and ARs, so I think you are good in sticking with the bolt to start. I know I will wade slowly into LR eventually, knowing full well it will signal the end of any improvement in 3Gun. There is obviously gain to be made with handloads, but with .308, depending on purpose and volume, there is some very good "custom grade" factory ammo with great performance.

The advice I have heard from some top LR guys has been consistent over the years...Get a good .308 and wear out a barrel with some mid-grade glass before you go plunking down shiny coin on the really good stuff. I did buy the TB 30P suppressor before I built either rig BTW.

[mtik00]

I'm definitely no expert... here are my thoughts:
The Savage vs Rem 700 debate will go on forever. The way I see it is this: You can get a more accurate "out of the box" rifle from Savage than you can from Remington (assuming we're talking about Rem700 vs Savage 10/110). That can save you the head-ache of upgrading. As far as aftermarket upgrades go, there is no comparison. Rem 700 wins that all around. I can only assume that you spend extra money on a Rem700 that will best the Savage. I have absolutely no data to back that up.

Last year I built the following for just a hair under $2,000
Savage 10 FCP-K in .308
Vortex Viper PST 5-24x50 FFP
low to mid grade rings
Bipod
Misc accessories and doo-dads

I'm happy with this configuration. I'm new to bolt guns, but I'm getting out on occasion and having fun. I may never outgrow this (especially according to my group sizes!).

I also have a reloading setup, but I haven't done .308 yet. That's coming this year once I shoot up all my factory ammo and assuming I can find components.

This is perfect for me because I didn't want to spend a billion dollars on a Surgeon or AI with $5,000 glass.

To each their own.

[ColoFarmer]

I went through the same thing recently, see my thread about the gun. It is a 7mm not 308, which I chose because I reload and was set up for 7mm. The only rounds I have are .223/5.56, 6mm Rem and 7mm Rem Mag. https://www.ar-15.co/threads/95017-Here-it-is-quot-new-quot-gun

I don't have quite that much in it, I think it's about $1400 or so. If I was going to spend a little more, it would be on the scope. The Viper I got doesn't have target turrets and isn't FFP, but it's a good start and is amazingly clear for the money. Look for a Viper PST like the previous poster has. If you can find a builder action and a gunsmith you trust, throw a little money at it at a time and spread it out if you need to. Keep an eye out on sniper's hide and long range hunting websites and you can pick up barrel blanks pretty reasonably, keep an eye out for a good deal on the scope, and have your gunsmith put it all together.

[clark]

I put together one for about 2 grand, seems like a good combo and works well, gun and optics are much better than I am at this point.

Savage 10 FCP 308 HS PRECISION, $950
Vortex viper pst 6-24x50 Is first focal plain and cost about $950
http://www.opticsplanet.com/vortex-viper-pst-6-24x50-ffp-riflescope.html?gclid=CJXj0b_c6LYCFYhFMgodGywACQ&ph=&adlens_source=google&ef_id=KCxP7LyR@r0AAAcg:20130426161100:s

There are better optics out there but this is one of the best bang for the bucks for a quality scope.

It is one hell of a setup and to date the gun is much better than my abilities, though I am working on that.

[Delfuego]

The Viper PST is a good scope, but my SWFA 5-20HD blows it away (I own both). http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-HD-5-20x50-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P51653.aspx
The SWFA scopes are quite a deal and they have a "trade in" program. I sent in my Leupold and the gave me a very reasonable credit on a new purchase. You can then buy those used optics from their "sample list".

Swing by a match in Pueblo or at CRC. You can see all the gear you have only read about, and I'm sure that people will let you finger f*** their rifles too...

[d_striker]

Check out this link for a "budget" precision build using the Remington 700 AAC-SD. His total spend was around $1200.

http://8541tactical.com/budget%20precision%20article.php