View Full Version : Tuiton break for illegals
electronman1729
04-29-2013, 11:19
Nice to know colorado is sending illegals with no future to college
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/bill-to-give-undocumented-students-in-state-college-tuition-in-colorado-to-be-signed-into-law-monday
Jesus-With-A-.45
04-29-2013, 11:28
It's only "fair" after their parents have show so much respect for our country & our laws.
Question.........Why should I continue to respect the rule of law when laws only apply to certain groups of people at certain times?
Why not, they earned it....
Why not, they earned it....
Yeah!! Crime is hard work.
....in contrast, international student with valid F1 visa and out of state students would have to pay out of state tuition.
electronman1729
04-29-2013, 15:44
Well govenor fuck head just signed the bill into law
Well govenor fuck head just signed the bill into law
He is doing it for the people
The jsutification is the path to anarchy: too many people break the law to enforce it so just them do it. Repeal laws for murder mayhem, and prostitution.
Putting my flame suit on....
I don't think this is all that bad of an idea. The state is offering in state rates to those who graduated from Colorado High Schools. Most of the illegals who graduate from Colorado High Schools did not make the choice to come here; their families brought them here as young children in pursuit of the American dream.
It's pretty common to hear people in the trades complain about illegals coming here and taking their jobs and flooding the market with cheap labor which has significantly reduced the amount of pay a professional tradesman can expect to make. If we allow High School graduates to receive the same breaks as others there is a likely chance that you will see less illegals going into the trades which will ultimately increase the wages professional tradesman can earn.
Personally I would round them up and ship them home, and fix the immigration laws so people who wanted to be Americans could actually immigrate.
Personally I would round them up and ship them home, and fix the immigration laws so people who wanted to be Americans could actually immigrate.
It would cost trillions of tax payer dollars to do that. Not to mention they would likely find a new way to come back over and the cycle would repeat.
It would cost trillions of tax payer dollars to do that. Not to mention they would likely find a new way to come back over and the cycle would repeat.
I didn't say it was realistic.
But I do believe we will be forced to do something about unchecked immigration sooner or later.
It would cost trillions of tax payer dollars to do that. Not to mention they would likely find a new way to come back over and the cycle would repeat.
Trillions? In my opinion an over estimate. Billions however in free healthcare etc for them.
So round them up and ship them back!
If I got bent out of shape by every aspect of what I deem 'misspending' or errant government, I'd have had a nervous breakdown long ago. Life ain't fair, never has been, never will be. We could cut off ALL aid to the entire Middle East tomorrow and it'd make me quite happy but it'd twist a whole lot of people's undies on this site that seem to think sending Billions over there is sound fiscal policy.
They never learn.
What do we get when we reward criminal activity? That's right, more criminal activity. That is what this tuition law is all about, promoting more criminal activity.
The next time they ask to raise taxes this will be my first thought!
buffalobo
04-29-2013, 18:38
Baloney.
There are ten more in line for the trade job for each you give lower tuition to.
It is a parasite invasion. A very small percentage come for the dream. The rest come to prey upon the dreamers and the American system.
Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
Baloney.
There are ten more in line for the trade job for each you give lower tuition to.
It is a parasite invasion. A very small percentage come for the dream. The rest come to prey upon the dreamers and the American system.
Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
Exactly, and should be treated as such.'
The problem is how do we ID them?
Jumpstart
04-29-2013, 19:01
It would cost trillions of tax payer dollars to do that. Not to mention they would likely find a new way to come back over and the cycle would repeat. Self deportation by attrition. If there is nothing here (USA) they can take without going through the proper channels they go home. Strategic enforcement as well would make them uncomfortable and they would be gone. Georgia had great success when they could enforce their laws.
Self deportation by attrition. If there is nothing here (USA) they can take without going through the proper channels they go home. Strategic enforcement as well would make them uncomfortable and they would be gone. Georgia had great success when they could enforce their laws.
Close the border. Start attrition by requiring verifiable proof of citizenship for all federal and state payouts. The employers will be easy to find, start prosecuting, fining, and jailing them.
Unfortunately it is too late for any of this. Once again the police and citizens will have to deal with the consequences of laws imposed on us by our "betters".
XXFattyHunterXX
04-29-2013, 21:32
I honestly think this is bullshit, makes me feel my effort of coming to the US and becoming a legal US citizen worthless while all them illegals do is jump the border and they get treated like they are guests, invited. Plus trying to get them driver license and tell them to get insurance? Seriously? They shouldn't even be here in the first place, that's what make our street safe, not insured them. I'm not racist against anyone, i'm minority myself, i speak up not because i hate them, it's the damn politicians that even thought about this. Its a shame these people now running the state i call home for the last 10 years is smearing the Flag i sworn to protect. Yeah i'm pissed! But it's good to be an American!
sniper_tim
04-29-2013, 21:36
Self deportation by attrition. If there is nothing here (USA) they can take without going through the proper channels they go home. Strategic enforcement as well would make them uncomfortable and they would be gone. Georgia had great success when they could enforce their laws.
EXACTLY, no freebie's and no jobs, we won't need a fence, they will stop coming!
The wife just suggested that CO should subsidize Naturalization Tests instead of giving the tuition discount... I agree
Personally I would round them up and ship them home, and fix the immigration laws so people who wanted to be Americans could actually immigrate.
Where exactly do you ship someone that was born here? Luthren, Rose Medical, the new campus in Aurora?
Self deportation by attrition. If there is nothing here (USA) they can take without going through the proper channels they go home. Strategic enforcement as well would make them uncomfortable and they would be gone. Georgia had great success when they could enforce their laws.
This is the best answer, but most difficult/unrealistic.
GilpinGuy
04-29-2013, 22:25
Self deportation by attrition. If there is nothing here (USA) they can take without going through the proper channels they go home. Strategic enforcement as well would make them uncomfortable and they would be gone. Georgia had great success when they could enforce their laws.
This is the best answer, but most difficult/unrealistic.
I think this is right. Maybe make it a $100,000 fine per offense for any company that willingly employs an illegal immigrant or has not taken reasonable steps to ensure that a person is a legal citizen (or eligible to work in the US). Plus, a $10,000 fine OR 10 years in prison (your choice) if ypou are caught here illegally.
When I was in Spain, Nicaragua and Costa Rica there were signs in all of the touristy areas warning you that if you were caught without a valid visa, passport, etc. that you were FUCKED ROYALLY. Here- "No sweat - here's a bunch of free shit". [facepalm]
I think this is right. Maybe make it a $100,000 fine per offense for any company that willingly employs an illegal immigrant or has not taken reasonable steps to ensure that a person is a legal citizen (or eligible to work in the US). Plus, a $10,000 fine OR 10 years in prison (your choice) if ypou are caught here illegally.
When I was in Spain, Nicaragua and Costa Rica there were signs in all of the touristy areas warning you that if you were caught without a valid visa, passport, etc. that you were FUCKED ROYALLY. Here- "No sweat - here's a bunch of free shit". [facepalm]
As long as you realize that there is a thin line between the free market capitalism that made America what it is today and...some third world shithole with backward laws.
GilpinGuy
04-29-2013, 22:59
As long as you realize that there is a thin line between the free market capitalism that made America what it is today and...some third world shithole with backward laws.
At least those shitholes enforce their immigration laws. We should take lessons.
I believe that (relatively) free market capitalism can be accomplished within the law. There are millions of people that want to come here legally. I'm cool with that - my dad is a LEGAL immigrant. Illegal means just that.
Look, I get it. It's just so sad that we are in the rediculous spot now that it is SO HARD to enforce our own laws even if we (the GOV) wanted to. And both dumb ass parties are to blame here. Sad.
It's a complicated issue. ANYONE would be hard pressed to sell the concept that it should be illegal to work, or to run a business. You get a class of people that don't pay taxes, with no real way to enforce that, and you have to start cracking down on them in other ways, that on a micro scale sound crazy.
Are you kidding? NOBODY on either side of the political spectrum in the legislature wants to get rid of them. The Republicans may scratch the dirt a bit and bray about how they need to "stem the tide", but their companies are just as happy to hire the nearly-free labor as the Damnocrats are to import a ready-made liberal voting bloc. Both sides win, and the rest of us further down the food chain get fucked.
rockhound
04-30-2013, 09:05
ten million illegals walking back to mexico with a terrorist under each arm, it would be beautiful
As a white male w/o a criminal record who was born in this wonderful country of opportunity I keep waiting for my opportunity to be handed to me.
buckshotbarlow
04-30-2013, 22:03
TIFBS
WOW. It will be scholarship paid to illegals for a full ride.
BushMasterBoy
04-30-2013, 22:07
The average American reads at the 7th grade level. Maybe the politicians think this will increase our world standing.
Hunter12
04-30-2013, 22:25
That is so sad and so true! That's what sucks. Hell, Americans can't even compete in math.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-chinese-thirdgraders-falling-behind-us-high,31464/
Tinelement
04-30-2013, 22:48
If i gotta pay into someone's college fund....
I would prefer to pay into my kids...
[Bang]
The average American reads at the 7th grade level. Maybe the politicians think this will increase our world standing.
Very true, because I read about 4th grade level.
mcantar18c
05-01-2013, 06:30
Putting my flame suit on....
I don't think this is all that bad of an idea. The state is offering in state rates to those who graduated from Colorado High Schools. Most of the illegals who graduate from Colorado High Schools did not make the choice to come here; their families brought them here as young children in pursuit of the American dream.
It's pretty common to hear people in the trades complain about illegals coming here and taking their jobs and flooding the market with cheap labor which has significantly reduced the amount of pay a professional tradesman can expect to make. If we allow High School graduates to receive the same breaks as others there is a likely chance that you will see less illegals going into the trades which will ultimately increase the wages professional tradesman can earn.
I volunteered for the Army... I work late nights and weekends, going out in the field and not seeing my wife for a week is a normal thing for us, I've been to Afghanistan, blah blah blah... and my tuition assistance got taken away because the govt, who I'm employed by, can't afford it even with how little they pay us.
I'm not the type to feel entitled to anything, and I'm not trying to bitch about how hard we have it and all that bullshit, so please don't take it as such, but... please explain to me why someone who lives in the US illegally and not only doesn't contribute to but is detrimental to our economy and society, is more deserving of this little break than soldiers and their families.
^THIS^
I'm all for treating "the alien among us" kindly, but I don't believe that extends to doing it to the detriment of the societal vein they've plunged their proboscis into as a people.
screagle2
05-01-2013, 06:46
Putting my flame suit on....
One HUGE point you are ignoring.
They have made the choice to NOT start the naturalization process. They have made the choice to flaunt our laws and then demand a bonus for doing so.
I have never received a bonus for breaking a law. Explain that.
I don't think this is all that bad of an idea. The state is offering in state rates to those who graduated from Colorado High Schools. Most of the illegals who graduate from Colorado High Schools did not make the choice to come here; their families brought them here as young children in pursuit of the American dream.
It's pretty common to hear people in the trades complain about illegals coming here and taking their jobs and flooding the market with cheap labor which has significantly reduced the amount of pay a professional tradesman can expect to make. If we allow High School graduates to receive the same breaks as others there is a likely chance that you will see less illegals going into the trades which will ultimately increase the wages professional tradesman can earn.
I volunteered for the Army... I work late nights and weekends, going out in the field and not seeing my wife for a week is a normal thing for us, I've been to Afghanistan, blah blah blah... and my tuition assistance got taken away because the govt, who I'm employed by, can't afford it even with how little they pay us.
I'm not the type to feel entitled to anything, and I'm not trying to bitch about how hard we have it and all that bullshit, so please don't take it as such, but... please explain to me why someone who lives in the US illegally and not only doesn't contribute to but is detrimental to our economy and society, is more deserving of this little break than soldiers and their families.
Thank you for your service. I do not agree with the tuition assistance cuts to those who have served and I pray that the next person who takes office will show a much greater appreciation for those who have served their country than the current sad excuse for a commander in chief.
I believe many folks seem to have misinterpreted what this bill does. This bill does not give illegal immigrants any special breaks, it simply provides them with the same in state tuition rates any one else who has lived in Colorado for more than 1 year would receive. The folks who will be receiving in state tuition are not people who came to Colorado 2 months ago in order to receive cheap tuition and the law has been written in order to prevent that from happening. In order to receive in state tuition the person must have graduated from a Colorado high school which means this person has been living in the state for a significant amount of time and clearly has an interest in doing something greater in life than committing crimes or hanging drywall.
Under current law the children of illegal immigrants do not qualify for in state tuition rates in the state of Colorado. This means that if someone attends Colorado schools throughout their entire academic career and attains a stellar GPA they will not receive the same low cost tuition rates that regular residents receive. As a result of the current laws many children regardless of high school GPA's are unable to go on to college since they do not qualify for student loans and they can not afford to pay the out of state tuition rates which are typically 3 times higher than the tuition their classmates will pay. These children are living among us, they will continue to live among us and if we do not do something to help them further their educations they will continue to take low paying jobs and are far more likely to commit crime at some point in their life time.
I am in 100% agreement with all of you that something needs to be done about the illegal immigration problem in this country. Illegal immigration poses one of the greatest threats to our national security and has become a massive economic drain but unfortunately our Federal government is now prohibiting state governments from enforcing immigration laws. So long as we continue to allow people to cross our borders illegally and bring their children with them we have a responsibility to ensure that the people living here legally or not have every opportunity to be contributory members to American society.
I love out fight against Illegal Immigrants. Much like our fight against Terrorism, Congress is still kicking our butts! [Rant1]
Thank you for your service. I do not agree with the tuition assistance cuts to those who have served and I pray that the next person who takes office will show a much greater appreciation for those who have served their country than the current sad excuse for a commander in chief.
I believe many folks seem to have misinterpreted what this bill does. This bill does not give illegal immigrants any special breaks, it simply provides them with the same in state tuition rates any one else who has lived in Colorado for more than 1 year would receive. The folks who will be receiving in state tuition are not people who came to Colorado 2 months ago in order to receive cheap tuition and the law has been written in order to prevent that from happening. In order to receive in state tuition the person must have graduated from a Colorado high school which means this person has been living in the state for a significant amount of time and clearly has an interest in doing something greater in life than committing crimes or hanging drywall.
Under current law the children of illegal immigrants do not qualify for in state tuition rates in the state of Colorado. This means that if someone attends Colorado schools throughout their entire academic career and attains a stellar GPA they will not receive the same low cost tuition rates that regular residents receive. As a result of the current laws many children regardless of high school GPA's are unable to go on to college since they do not qualify for student loans and they can not afford to pay the out of state tuition rates which are typically 3 times higher than the tuition their classmates will pay. These children are living among us, they will continue to live among us and if we do not do something to help them further their educations they will continue to take low paying jobs and are far more likely to commit crime at some point in their life time.
I am in 100% agreement with all of you that something needs to be done about the illegal immigration problem in this country. Illegal immigration poses one of the greatest threats to our national security and has become a massive economic drain but unfortunately our Federal government is now prohibiting state governments from enforcing immigration laws. So long as we continue to allow people to cross our borders illegally and bring their children with them we have a responsibility to ensure that the people living here legally or not have every opportunity to be contributory members to American society.
I strongly disagree with the idea that I have a responsibility to grant anyone any opportunity to do anything, I will decide for myself who I want to be responsible for and who I want to enable. If you want to take on that responsibility then be my guest and remember to pay for it out of your own pocket. Unfortunately, your largess reaches into my pocket and I resent that.
Illegals and their children need to be encouraged in the strongest ways possible to leave this country and not to return until they can follow the legal process.
Screagle2, I am not ignoring the fact that they have not started the naturalization process I acknowledge the fact that for many if not most illegal immigrant children there is no naturalization process.
I'll give you an example. My childhood best friend was brought over by his parents when was he 2 years old. He graduated high school with a 4.0 GPA and after graduation wanted to become a citizen. Because his parents brought him here illegally he was told the only way he could become a citizen was to go back to Mexico and apply for a Visa. Because he had already entered the US illegally he would need to stay in Mexico for 3 years or longer before he would be permitted to re-enter the USA. When his family came here from Mexico they cut all ties with their family in Mexico which meant he would have to move to Mexico on his own and find a way to make a living in Mexico for at least 3 years.
Had my friend been able to become a citizen he would have likely pursued his dream of becoming a Doctor. Instead he became a form setter with his father and builds sidewalks and patios for a living.
Roberth, if you believe you have no responsibility you should probably move to another country that shares your views. This is America a country of immigrants. There's even a sign at one of the entry points of America that states:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I believe Mexico has some pretty tough immigration laws so you might consider moving there.
Screagle2, I am not ignoring the fact that they have not started the naturalization process I acknowledge the fact that for many if not most illegal immigrant children there is no naturalization process.
I'll give you an example. My childhood best friend was brought over by his parents when was he 2 years old. He graduated high school with a 4.0 GPA and after graduation wanted to become a citizen. Because his parents brought him here illegally he was told the only way he could become a citizen was to go back to Mexico and apply for a Visa. Because he had already entered the US illegally he would need to stay in Mexico for 3 years or longer before he would be permitted to re-enter the USA. When his family came here from Mexico they cut all ties with their family in Mexico which meant he would have to move to Mexico on his own and find a way to make a living in Mexico for at least 3 years.
Had my friend been able to become a citizen he would have likely pursued his dream of becoming a Doctor. Instead he became a form setter with his father and builds sidewalks and patios for a living.
Roberth, if you believe you have no responsibility you should probably move to another country that shares your views. This is America a country of immigrants. There's even a sign at one of the entry points of America that states:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I believe Mexico has some pretty tough immigration laws so you might consider moving there.
Whatever. None of that means what you think it means. You're just a typical liberal.
Why the fuck are illegals allowed to graduate from our public high schools in the first place again?
palepainter
05-01-2013, 08:53
I believe Mexico has some pretty tough immigration laws so you might consider moving there.
So..... why should it be any different here? We are rewarding people for illegal behavior simply to gain their votes.
So..... why should it be any different here? We are rewarding people for illegal behavior simply to gain their votes.
^This.
Would it suck for your friend to have to go back to Mexico and live there for 3 years? Yes, no doubt. No one is saying otherwise. But wouldn't he also be a HUGE advocate to encourage families to do it the right way at that point? Was it his fault his parents came? Nope. But one could argue that by using his education that he's learned up until this point and then go back to Mexico, he'd be light years ahead of most kids his age in Mexico. So while he's in a very shitty spot, he's also received tons of extras just by the high school education that normally wouldn't have been afforded to him in Mexico. At some point, you have to look at the facts. They're here illegally. How many people that are trying to do it the right way are waiting on a list in their shitty home country? If I were them, I'd be saying "Well hell, just got to find a way in and then I'm good. Screw the right way."
Why the fuck are illegals allowed to graduate from our public high schools in the first place again?
Apparently you have a responsibility to educate them. ;)
Hunter12
05-01-2013, 16:24
I KNOW THE ANSWER!!!!!!
The definition of "illegal" Changed over the last decade and nobody told us!
Its "illegal" to smoke pott in public. So you can smoke it in front of the capital and sworn police officers and not get a ticket!! WOW! Thats great.
You parents can break the law and come hear "illegally". Which makes it okay!
See people. We just didn't get the memo that "illegal" means legal! Thats all.
I KNOW THE ANSWER!!!!!!
The definition of "illegal" Changed over the last decade and nobody told us!
Its "illegal" to smoke pott in public. So you can smoke it in front of the capital and sworn police officers and not get a ticket!! WOW! Thats great.
You parents can break the law and come hear "illegally". Which makes it okay!
See people. We just didn't get the memo that "illegal" means legal! Thats all.
Oh I get it now. The liberals changed the word to mean what they wanted it to mean, not what it really means.
I nominate all the liberals to open their homes to the MS13 gang members that are here legally.
It's all about the voters to keep these SCUM in office.....
26953
Being able to graduate, or attend college, is not in any way a reward. The student still has to do the work and attend to graduate. No one is handong out diplomas. Be angry, but let's keep things straight and honest. While I agree with mcantar18c, even his example is not exactly parallel, as he is comparing a discount from the regular price, to a break from an inflated price, down to regular price (I think).
Finally, unless you own and run a college, I fail to see how people NOT paying inflated prices, means you have to pay more, or somehow have to contribute to their going to college. When ammo prices go back to normal, are people in here going to bitch about how we are rewarding consumers with free ammo and how we're all subsidizing their ammo purchases?
If the issue has to do with how much of your taxes are put toward college, than that is a separate issue and you should be upset no matter who is benefiting from your money.
Being able to graduate, or attend college, is not in any way a reward. The student still has to do the work and attend to graduate. No one is handong out diplomas. Be angry, but let's keep things straight and honest. While I agree with mcantar18c, even his example is not exactly parallel, as he is comparing a discount from the regular price, to a break from an inflated price, down to regular price (I think).
Finally, unless you own and run a college, I fail to see how people NOT paying inflated prices, means you have to pay more, or somehow have to contribute to their going to college. When ammo prices go back to normal, are people in here going to bitch about how we are rewarding consumers with free ammo and how we're all subsidizing their ammo purchases?
If the issue has to do with how much of your taxes are put toward college, than that is a separate issue and you should be upset no matter who is benefiting from your money.
It is when the student shouldn't even be in the country. This policy rewards people for crossing the border illegally, it rewards them by giving them an opportunity they did not earn and they do not deserve.
Scanker19
05-01-2013, 19:27
Mean while I have to suck off Colorado to get in state for the GI bill. Not like I'm registered to vote, own a house here, have a CO DL, Registered my cars here, or lived here for the past ten years.
It is when the student shouldn't even be in the country. This policy rewards people for crossing the border illegally, it rewards them by giving them an opportunity they did not earn and they do not deserve.
How did you earn the opportunity to go to school here? What steps did you take?
I guess being a citizen has no value in that argument.
How did you earn the opportunity to go to school here? What steps did you take?
Rest assured, I am a natural born citizen and so are my parents. I didn't need to take any steps.
I guess being a citizen has no value in that argument.
You are correct, being a citizen is meaningless to these kinds of people. They're all about the entitlement and making sure that your money goes where THEY want it to. Fuck you and your rights, their right to impose their views takes precedence.
They don't know it but they advocate for tyranny.
That's the way I am looking at it. It is more of a consumer issue than a citizenship issue. Like I mentioned before, since citizenship is so difficult to enforce, other consequences are implemented that don't make sense on their own.
If the issue was that illegals have always had to pay three times as much for milk, and now were being allowed to pay what everyone else paid, the sentiment would be the same. People would be emotional because someome who was illegal would be existing here without some sort of consequences. They'd probably say that the illegals were being rewarded, and that now their tax dollars would be wasted on subsidizing all the milk the illegals would consume. Others would argue that now some citizens would be deprived of milk because some illegal was there to purchase the milk first, or that there wasn't enough milk to go around. Howeve, no one, would be able to argue that it actually costs more to produce milk that gets consumed by an illegal, than it does milk that gets consumed by a citizen.
So ask yourself, are you prepared to support legislation that alters free market prices for things unrelated to certain laws that have been broken? 30% higher gas prices for anyone who didn't register their cars on time. Mandatory mortgage rates of 50% of salary for anyone who owes property taxes; no option to pay the taxes and get in the clear.
Be mad about immigration, but don't get stupid about consumption.
Rest assured, I am a natural born citizen and so are my parents. I didn't need to take any steps.
So if someone bangs an illegal and a kid is born here, what is the difference between you and that kid?
Legal international students on F1 visa has to pay for the visa, and pay out-of-state tuition.
However, students who are here illegally doesn't have to get a student visa, and pay in-state tuition.
Something is wrong here.
International students don't live and work here before and after attending college. They also have active citizenships in other countries, as oppossed to the kid who has illegal parents, but was born here. People that were brought here as children are a slightly different issue.
Citizenship isn't difficult to enforce, the government just needs to enforce it. Walk up to the counter, fail to provide legal documentation, get denied. Denial of everything except CRITICAL hospital care, and when they get well enough for transport, send them to a hospital in their home country. These simple steps would have saved the lives of countless citizens.
Here are 3, I hope you remember this --> Aurora hit-run killed 2 women in pickup, 3-year-old in ice cream shop - http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_10401431
It isn't a consumer issue, they shouldn't be here to consume anything. It is all about the rule of law, and the law isn't being enforced.
So if someone bangs an illegal and a kid is born here, what is the difference between you and that kid?
Citizenship is the difference, the bangee shouldn't have been here. The child isn't a citizen. The 14th is being ms-interpreted to support citizenship for the children of illegal aliens.
I can agree to that. So why are we wasting time and effort arguing about tution?
Citizenship is the difference, the bangee shouldn't have been here. The child isn't a citizen. The 14th is being ms-interpreted to support citizenship for the children of illegal aliens.
If both your parents are felons, should you have to pay out of state tuition? Your parents are criminals and by you going to college, your criminal parents are receiving some benefit, if they are even paying. Should children born of rape pay out of state tuition? Dad is some criminal and kid shouldn't have been born because dad shouldn't have raped her. Are we rewarding the kid by allowing them to attend college and have a criminal for a parent at the same time? How much money comes out of my pocket when rape kid pays instate tuition?
I can agree to that. So why are we wasting time and effort arguing about tution?
Because these illegals are getting something that citizens from other states can't get, a break on tuition in Colorado schools.
I just want these people to leave, preferably by attrition. I want every single thing denied to them. I want employers to lose their businesses and do time for hiring them. If we're going to recover the nation these people must go or at least be greatly diminished. And not just the Latinos, ALL of them, I don't care where they are from.
If both your parents are felons, should you have to pay out of state tuition? Your parents are criminals and by you going to college, your criminal parents are receiving some benefit, if they are even paying. Should children born of rape pay out of state tuition? Dad is some criminal and kid shouldn't have been born because dad shouldn't have raped her. Are we rewarding the kid by allowing them to attend college and have a criminal for a parent at the same time? How much money comes out of my pocket when rape kid pays instate tuition?
Are the parents citizens? Yes, then the child gets full benefit of citizenship.
colorider
05-01-2013, 20:40
So the illegals get an in state tuition. Rewarding those that are breaking the law. Once they graduate, a company can not legally hire them. They risk fines, etc. The whole thing is so stupid it makes my head hurt. Like rewarding a dog for shitting on your carpet.
So the illegals get an in state tuition. Rewarding those that are breaking the law. Once they graduate, a company can not legally hire them. They risk fines, etc. The whole thing is so stupid it makes my head hurt. Like rewarding a dog for shitting on your carpet.
So a white collar job isn't available but they can mow all the lawns they want?
If you're not going to enforce the law then be thorough about it.
Because these illegals are getting something that citizens from other states can't get, a break on tuition in Colorado schools.
I just want these people to leave, preferably by attrition. I want every single thing denied to them. I want employers to lose their businesses and do time for hiring them. If we're going to recover the nation these people must go or at least be greatly diminished. And not just the Latinos, ALL of them, I don't care where they are from.
You don't care about students from other states, stop pretending that you do. What you want is for people who weren't born here, and some people who WERE born here, to not be allowed to exist here. If you cared about what people from other states paid for school compared to people who already live here, you'd advocate for laws that restrict the prices that colleges could charge for admission. Say what you mean, no need to disguise your feelings by making false comparisons to other situations. I'd love to suggest ways to solve the illegal immigration problem, but I don't know any ways that wouldn't undermine the essence of America and forfeit the whole point of this country at the same time.
You don't care about students from other states, stop pretending that you do. What you want is for people who weren't born here, and some people who WERE born here, to not be allowed to exist here. If you cared about what people from other states paid for school compared to people who already live here, you'd advocate for laws that restrict the prices that colleges could charge for admission. Say what you mean, no need to disguise your feelings by making false comparisons to other situations. I'd love to suggest ways to solve the illegal immigration problem, but I don't know any ways that wouldn't undermine the essence of America and forfeit the whole point of this country at the same time.
I haven't been clear? I thought I was.
I mean it, if you're going to offer in-state to illegals, you need to offer it to everyone from anywhere. No one knows what state or country some illegal came from and since that doesn't matter everyone should get it. This granting special status to illegals is hogwash. Treat everyone who isn't a resident of the state or a citizen of the country the exactly the same. I don't want more laws, I want less laws that are easier to interpret and enforce.
I just suggested far and away the best way to get rid them, deny them all services and jobs. They'll realize they can't make a living here unless they apply for citizenship (and get it after 7 years) and they'll leave. Maybe they'll go home and work to improve things in their own country.
I'm getting tired, had to do some editing.
Voception
05-01-2013, 21:19
>:(
Just pisses my off...
I haven't been clear? I thought I was.
I mean it, if you're going to offer in-state to illegals, you need to offer it to everyone from anywhere. No one knows what state or country some illegal came from and since that doesn't matter everyone should get it. This granting special status to illegals is hogwash. Treat everyone who isn't a resident of the state or a citizen of the country the exactly the same. I don't want more laws, I want less laws that are easier to interpret and enforce.
I just suggested far and away the best way to get rid them, deny them all services and jobs. They'll realize they can't make a living here unless they apply for citizenship (and get it after 7 years) and they'll leave. Maybe they'll go home and work to improve things in their own country.
I'm getting tired, had to do some editing.
Sounds like you are in agreement with the law then, since isn't that what they just did? If you can prove that you've lived here for over a year, or graduated from a Colorado high school, or both, or whatever, you get to pay in-state tuition, no matter where you are from.
As to your last statement, the answer to illegal immigration is to turn America into a shithole much like the one they came from, so they no longer consider America a positive move?
>:(
Just pisses my off...
Yup, illegals (we see mostly Latins) get a free pass. Deal drugs...walk, kill people...run back to the border and make the DA drop the death penalty option before I'll agree to extradition, car accident...walk, get ebt, housing, k-12 education, medical...that is all free thanks to the citizen taxpayer. Us stupid citizens on the other hand, if we want something we have to prove we're citizens.
I'm going to change my name to Roberto Enrique de la Espana and apply for WIC.
Sounds like you are in agreement with the law then, since isn't that what they just did? If you can prove that you've lived here for over a year, or graduated from a Colorado high school, or both, or whatever, you get to pay in-state tuition, no matter where you are from.
As to your last statement, the answer to illegal immigration is to turn America into a shithole much like the one they came from, so they no longer consider America a positive move?
No I don't agree with the tuition law.
So let me get this straight. Kicking a bunch of illiterate parasites out of the United States makes the United States a third world shithole. Gotcha. By your logic when the illiterate parasites go back to their home countries those countries will become first world countries overnight.
I think we're at odds on what kind of person is coming here illegally. I see a incompetent criminal dragging his preggo wife here to have an anchor baby and she'll starting collecting welfare, section 8, and wic while he gets a $10 an hour job scoping houses for his criminal buddies to burglarize. You see a Rhodes scholar coming over with his equally capable family to launch a successful competitor to Google and teach other illegals the intricacies of the English language.
hghclsswhitetrsh
05-01-2013, 22:07
Why not, they earned it....
My thought exactly... Errrr
No I don't agree with the tuition law.
So let me get this straight. Kicking a bunch of illiterate parasites out of the United States makes the United States a third world shithole. Gotcha. By your logic when the illiterate parasites go back to their home countries those countries will become first world countries overnight.
I think we're at odds on what kind of person is coming here illegally. I see a incompetent criminal dragging his preggo wife here to have an anchor baby and she'll starting collecting welfare, section 8, and wic while he gets a $10 an hour job scoping houses for his criminal buddies to burglarize. You see a Rhodes scholar coming over with his equally capable family to launch a successful competitor to Google and teach other illegals the intricacies of the English language.
You're still letting your emotions stand in the way of understanding what I'm saying. Will it help you to understand that I am not defending, nor advocating illegal immigration?
In response to your first paragraph, that is not the logic that I am using, as what you said is not logical at all. I'm not talking about a bizzaro world. I'm talking about America and what makes America great. Namely, Freedom. If you believe in the concept of freedom, and rights, then you believe in those concepts regardless of any thing else. For example, if a bill is signed tomorrow that makes all guns illegal and possession or ownership makes you a criminal, will you turn in your guns tomorrow? No you won't. You'll hold fast to your belief that you have the RIGHT to possess a means to defend yourself, and that you have the FREEDOM to defend yourself in the manner of which you choose; no matter what the law says. You'll be a criminal before you will buckle under unjust laws. Now, if you feel that RIGHTS and FREEDOM are merely a product of modern American culture, and you are able to enjoy them because you were born into the cool club, and don't believe, nor care that anyone else can have those same RIGHTS and FREEDOM, then we are too far apart to continue this conversation because you don't understand, nor even care for the concepts of RIGHTS and FREEDOM. You just like being in the cool club.
If you are on board with the concept of rights and freedom, regardless of the person, race, geological location, etc, then we can move on to the next point. The next point being that America celebrates and practices RIGHTS and FREEDOM, not because we are trying to impress others, or make money, or benefit our friends, but because that is the right thing to do. It's the difference between helping someone change a flat tire because you think it's the right thing to do, and helping someone change a flat tire because you think you're going to be compensated. The right thing to do, is the right thing to do, regardless of if it benefits you or not. America, and it's citizens can not hope to promote RIGHTS and FREEDOM, by only extending those same rights and freedom to certain people. RIGHTS and FREEDOM either exist, or they do not. It doesn't matter if the people benefiting from the freedom take advantage or not. There is either freedom, or there is not.
I compare your solution barring all things America from those who have illegally immigrated here to turning the country into Mexico because it is the same thing. If those people could make it at home, they would. They can't however, because there are people in power that restrict their ability to succeed for arbitrary reasons. People come here because there is opportunity here that does not exist in their home country; not because they think America will hand them free stuff. People have been coming to America for the opportunity since long before the wide spread social programs we have today. America has set a precedence that can only be altered by altering America.
It's late and I'm rambling. My large point is that freedom isn't free. If we want to live in a truly FREE America, then we must be forced to accept all the burdens that come with that freedom. Some people that come here are going to abuse the system. That will always be true. Just as some people who were born here will abuse the system. We can work at ways to reduce being taken advantage of (like cutting off social welfare programs), but we would have to shrug off everything it means to be America in order to keep up the jack boot thuggery and corruption it would take to commit the economic genocide that you think you want. If it came to that, there would be so much collateral damage that America would truly be ruined, and what would even be the point then?
While illegal immigration is annoying, and easy to target, it is far from ruining America. Similar to how it is easy to point out a newly reported instance of "gun violence" in the news each day, but we all know that the hype does not come close to matching the actual numbers. That is to say that to some it might seem like everyone is in danger of taking a bullet at any moment, but the reality is far from that.
True American FREEDOM is much larger than any immigration issue, gun violence, drug use, or texting while driving. If we are willing to restrict the things we enjoy that make America great from others just to prevent some of them from taking advantage here and there, then America never is, never was, and never can be the example of freedom it was created to be. It was just a cool club, where things like RIGHTS and FREEDOM never existed, because one had to remain in tight lock step just to keep up the appearance. So let freedom ring, or shove this thought down the memory hole.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I have major disagreements with your third paragraph as well, but if can't get passed this first concept together, there is not point in discussing the rest.
/snip
I compare your solution barring all things America from those who have illegally immigrated here to turning the country into Mexico because it is the same thing. If those people could make it at home, they would. They can't however, because there are people in power that restrict their ability to succeed for arbitrary reasons (2). People come here because there is opportunity here that does not exist in their home country; not because they think America will hand them free stuff (1). People have been coming to America for the opportunity since long before the wide spread social programs we have today. America has set a precedence that can only be altered by altering America.
/snip
I am still digesting everything else you wrote. We're going to disagree on two points which I have highlighted.
1. Receiving free stuff is precisely why they are here. My only and limited experience is with Central/South Americans and they aren't here to assimilate into the American culture. They are here to change America from a working culture to an entitlement culture. Both major political parties are complicit in this change.
2. Instead of running away to a free country they should stay in their own country and overthrow their oppressor. But that would take work and sacrifice, neither of which appeals to these people, especially when the American government aids and abets illegal immigration with free education and all the rest.
Whatever their reasons for coming here (bootstrap ingenuity and work ethic or welfare leech, it really doesn't matter) I don't really blame the immigrants for escaping Mexico to come here. I would do the same thing if my family was living in a narco-war zone. My problem is the companies and gov't programs that keep enticing them to do so, and giving them incentives to sponge off of the rest of us while here.
P.S. I also think that any gang affiliation whatsoever, should be grounds for immediate deportation of the person in question, and their entire immediate family. Fair or not, the entire family should bear the responsibility of NOT polluting our country any further with the filth they've brought with them from Mexico.
As to Freedom.
There are 6.5 billion persons on this planet and each one is endowed by their creator with the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
If they have the misfortune of being born under a government that does not uphold these rights then they have some solutions:
1. Rise up and overthrow their oppressor.
2. Move to a different country...in the legal fashion required by the laws of the country they want to move to.
3. Put up with the oppression
4. Join the oppressors
The solution of moving to a better country by violating the destination countries laws removes the rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness from the law breaker.
No illegal alien present in the United States should enjoy any rights whatsoever. They are criminals first and foremost and have forfeited their rights, there must be consequences for actions and bad actions should lead to detrimental consequences. To grant them immunity from prosecution for entering the country illegally spits in the face of every person who wants to and has come here legally.
... wow, and I'm still paying off $80K of degrees.... I'm about ready to either go postal or give up....
Jumpstart
05-02-2013, 10:46
It's simple. Illegal immigration is wrong. Rewarding it in ANY manifestation is doubly wrong. Our American history, culture and children deserve better.
Goodburbon
05-02-2013, 10:59
When do Dickinpooper and the rest of these traitors go on trial?
When do Dickinpooper and the rest of these traitors go on trial?
What did they do that was treasonous?
I'd like to try them as co-conspirators in the murders of every person killed during the victim's encounter with an illegal alien.
Illegal aliens are not victims, they are perpetrators.
... wow, and I'm still paying off $80K of degrees.... I'm about ready to either go postal or give up....
$80k? wow!
Hang in there. Still not bad for average post graduate degree.
Most I've seen was about 220k.
It is like having another mortgage....
My former co-worker was about mid 50s. His average tuition was about $900/semester back then.
Rucker61
05-02-2013, 13:45
$80k? wow!
Hang in there. Still not bad for average post graduate degree.
Most I've seen was about 220k.
It is like having another mortgage....
My former co-worker was about mid 50s. His average tuition was about $900/semester back then.
I'm 51 and attended state schools. My undergrad costs ranged from $235 a quarter to $335 a quarter, and grad school was $1200 a quarter in the early 90s.
I'm 51 and attended state schools. My undergrad costs ranged from $235 a quarter to $335 a quarter, and grad school was $1200 a quarter in the early 90s.
Music to my ears.
We need Obamacation to regulate these out of control education costs and make it affordable for all! :)
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