I'm going to take your baby, don't resist.

[Rooskibar03]

In my book this is kidnapping and would be met with appropriate levels of force.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/29/im-going-to-grab-your-baby-and-dont-resist-cops-barge-into-cali-parents-home-take-their-baby-after-they-seek-2nd-medical-opinion-and-its-on-video/



The next day police showed up at the Nikolayev’s home with representatives from Child Protective Services (CPS). Alex went outside to meet them, where he says he was “pushed against the building.” When he asked if he was being placed under arrest, he said they “smacked me down onto the ground [and] yelled out, ‘I think I got the keys to the house.’”

Seeing the scene outside, Anna set up a camera in front of her door.


Video shows police letting themselves in without a warrant, and taking the baby.


“I’m going to grab your baby, and don’t resist, and don’t fight me okay?” one officer can be heard telling the mother in the video.

[brokenscout]

It's Kali, they can do what they want..

[Rooskibar03]

It's Kali, they can do what they want..

Coming soon to a part of Colorado near you.

[Chad4000]

yeah.... would probably go down swinging if somebody came to get my son....

[wctriumph]

I know, I saw this earlier. This is getting really out of hand with LE just doing what they want regardless of the law.

If you're not a cop, you're little people. - Blade Runner

When Policemen break the law then there is no law. - Billy Jack

I am the law - Judge Dredd

Thank you, the honest LE out there for what you do. We greatly appreciate the work and sacrifice that you and your families do on our behalf. Please do not fall into the political trap and always remember your oath that you gave to us.

[Bailey Guns]

In my book this is kidnapping and would be met with appropriate levels of force.

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

[Chad4000]

what if the courts dont?

this is scary stuff.... you have to pick your battles obviously, but damn....

[clublights]

I thoguth before I reaad the story there was more to it ... in that the parents were bad....


but holy crap more to the story in that all involved ( on the governments side.. cops and CPS) need to be brought up on charges.

Sounds a bit like the Doctor " god complex" reared it's ugly head. And doctor didn't like his diagnosis being challenged.

I may or may not have a heart murmur.... I've had 2 docs say I do .. 3 say I don't... of the 2 that say I do .. one say its bad.. the other say its very minor...

[dwalker460]

He acknowledges that the couple erred in taking their baby from Sutter Memorial without a proper discharge,


Fuck that. I was once at an Urgent care and I did not like the staff that was working at all. They were literally, IMHO, trying to scare my wife into un-necessary tests for my son, and I told the male nurse that he had better go get someone who could explain wtf he was talking about better, or we were leaving right then. He got an actual doctor who agreed that the tests were not 100% nec. and we could simply keep an eye on the little guys symptoms and come back in the AM. The first guy was a dick, and I was a thin line from an assault charge.
I get that in our litigious society medical professionals are scared as cats in the dog pound, and of course they are out for every single dollar they can bring in, but that crap is getting old fast. And obviously, if you dont agree to it they get pissy and crap like the article happens. Its for your own good citizen, relax. Enhance your calm citizen.

[Chad4000]

[/COLOR][/FONT]


Fuck that. I was once at an Urgent care and I did not like the staff that was working at all. They were literally, IMHO, trying to scare my wife into un-necessary tests for my son, and I told the male nurse that he had better go get someone who could explain wtf he was talking about better, or we were leaving right then. He got an actual doctor who agreed that the tests were not 100% nec. and we could simply keep an eye on the little guys symptoms and come back in the AM. The first guy was a dick, and I was a thin line from an assault charge.
I get that in our litigious society medical professionals are scared as cats in the dog pound, and of course they are out for every single dollar they can bring in, but that crap is getting old fast. And obviously, if you dont agree to it they get pissy and crap like the article happens. Its for your own good citizen, relax. Enhance your calm citizen.

yup...agreed

[clublights]

Hell half the stuff that happens at hospitals doesn't make sense...


I was in the hospital in nov of last year.. after they let me out of ICU I got asked at every shift change if I wanted more morphine.. I said no but can I get an aspirin or Advil.. something to knock the low grade headache I had..... took 2 days for me to get one after I complained to a administrative head nurse that was doing the " how do you like our service so far" check up with me. but every 8 hours till that happened I was offered more morphine...

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

[DingleBerns]

yeah.... would probably go down swinging if somebody came to get my son....

I've had to do this and it is not fun. (mine wasn't CPS but there was a court order prohibiting dad from being around his daughter.) Had to take child from dad and give daughter to his ex-wife. At this point he is already committing a crime and if he "wants to go down swinging" that is fine too (I don't fight fair). Plus I'll just add assault on a peace officer and he can think about that in jail while he wears other people's underware and eats rubber food made by people like him.

[blacklabel]

what if the courts dont?

this is scary stuff.... you have to pick your battles obviously, but damn....

That was my exact thought. It would be hard to keep my natural tendency to protect my child from putting me in a bad spot.

[Hound]

WTF!! That can not be real?

[Chad4000]

I've had to do this and it is not fun. (mine wasn't CPS but there was a court order prohibiting dad from being around his daughter.) Had to take child from dad and give daughter to his ex-wife. At this point he is already committing a crime and if he "wants to go down swinging" that is fine too (I don't fight fair). Plus I'll just add assault on a peace officer and he can think about that in jail while he wears other people's underware and eats rubber food made by people like him.

Ill refrain from letting on exactly how crazy I would get to protect my son..... lol....

[Rooskibar03]

Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

So where do we draw the line before we come Nazi Germany? First its let me in because I'm looking for a terrorist. Next it's let me in because someone thinks you're a danger to your child.

Whats next, we need to come in and look at your guns, we understand you're a member of an online community of gun owners.

I don't care if you're wearing a badge or not, if you step through my door univited and take something, especially my child, I may go down but not without a fight.

Where is the point when we finally say enough is enough?

[Chad4000]

That was my exact thought. It would be hard to keep my natural tendency to protect my child from putting me in a bad spot.

yeah Im with you.... if i was a little younger, Im putting myself in a bad spot for sure lol..... hopefully a little wiser now, but it cant be guaranteed lol

[Chad4000]

So where do we draw the line before we come Nazi Germany? First its let me in because I'm looking for a terrorist. Next it's let me in because someone thinks your a danger to your child.

Whats next, we need to come in and look at your guns, we understand you're a member of an online community of gun owners.

Where is the point when we finally say enough is enough?

+1

[Bailey Guns]

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

Yeah...almost as predictable as how badass the internet commandos are gonna be "if the cops did that to me/my kid/my family."

[clublights]

Question......


For this one example of blatant abuse of the system by the Doctors/CPS.. ( I don;t blame the cops as much they probably had little knowledge of what was going on other then CPS said the kid is in danger so we are backing them up)

How many Kids do they TRUELY save ? 10 ... 2 .. 3 ... ?

Is that worth the risk of one fuck up to save the other 10 ? or is letting the other ten be abused ok to prevent the one fuck up ?

[Bailey Guns]

I always love how easy it is to predict the exact respone that will come from certain members when it comes to stories about cops just "doing there jobs".

And you apparently either didn't read or didn't comprehend this part:


Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question.

But being outraged about what you know about others is much more fun, isn't it?

[Chad4000]

Yeah...almost as predictable as how badass the internet commandos are gonna be "if the cops did that to me/my kid/my family."

if we already agree that it's an injustice,, then we are just debating how to deal with it. You trust the system and the courts.... not sure I do...

just playing devils advocate here. (because I agree, that anybody who really wanted to "fight" would end up losing). But if you wouldnt fight when somebody (cops or not) are taking your kid, would you ever fight? that can be rhetorical if you want....

certainly have to pick your battles. swat going door to door in boston was a huge injustice. would I have put up a fight? probably not.... CPS taking my kid like they did the one in the story? maybe.....maybe......

[BushMasterBoy]

So somebody explain to me on here exactly how they do this? Do they just do it because CPS has some mystical power to "legally" seize your children? Or did they have a court order or injunction? Or maybe the doctors go to the CPS and the CPS swears an affidavit to the district attorney, who orders the police to seize the child? I know one thing, federal court jurors can be brutal to local government mistakes financially. In other words what is the "due process of law" in this case?

[KevDen2005]

Good thing this was posted. CPS is out snatching children left and right. Come on, I have left children in some pretty horrible places. It take a whole hell of a lot of work to remove a child from a house. People just don't go in off some random accusation and take children.

[Bailey Guns]

if we already agree that it's an injustice,, then we are just debating how to deal with it. You trust the system and the courts.... not sure I do...

just playing devils advocate here. (because I agree, that anybody who really wanted to "fight" would end up losing). But if you wouldnt fight when somebody (cops or not) are taking your kid, would you ever fight? that can be rhetorical if you want....

certainly have to pick your battles. swat going door to door in boston was a huge injustice. would I have put up a fight? probably not.... CPS taking my kid like they did the one in the story? maybe.....maybe......

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

[CroiDhubh]

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

Because those people are looking at it from a civil rights/perceived rights issue and the cops are looking at it from the law/department mandates.

[Chad4000]

This isn't a battle to prove how tough you are. This is a battle to ultimately get what's best for your child and your family. Fighting the cops and getting hurt (or worse) and going to jail would've benefited the family how, exactly? If you fight, the kids are leaving with CPS anyway.

I've never had a problem fighting. But there have also been plenty that I've walked away from for various reasons. Do you think the smart warrior blindly charges into a battle he/she can't possibly win? Or do you think the smart warrior plots a strategy and gathers the resources needed to best insure a positive outcome to the fight?

It appears we agree that had the father/mother fought the cops, they would've lost. So my question to you is, would that put the child in a better position or worse position? I'm not minimizing what happened in any way. But the parents were obviously a lot smarter than some people on this forum and they approached this in the right way.

And frankly, I've been put in that situation as a cop and it sucked. Jesus and his .45 apparently think the cops sit around eating donuts and conspiring about how they're gonna go ruin some family's day and violate their rights and kick their dog. A lot of people who have exactly ZERO law enforcement experience always seem to know more about the cop's job than the cop. I don't know why that is.

Im not really talking about being tough.... this is a really touchy subject, and its really hard to tip toe around. I am thinking grand scheme... just going to throw out some hypotheticals here: would it be better for your son to know that his dad fought when people came for him? would it be better for his children someday if a few of us fought against obvious injustice? would it happen less if a few of us fought? I have no idea.... just throwing ideas out....

[clublights]

Another Question ........... ( even tho my last was ignored...)

If they had taken the kid form the first hospital... and NOT gone to the second.. just went home ... and the baby died.. would any of you say the parents needed to be brought up on charges? or what even the baby survived also ?


I'll hold my opinion till I see some others.

[Bailey Guns]

Question......


For this one example of blatant abuse of the system by the Doctors/CPS.. ( I don;t blame the cops as much they probably had little knowledge of what was going on other then CPS said the kid is in danger so we are backing them up)

How many Kids do they TRUELY save ? 10 ... 2 .. 3 ... ?

Is that worth the risk of one fuck up to save the other 10 ? or is letting the other ten be abused ok to prevent the one fuck up ?

Well, honestly, I don't know who abused the system here. Can you really tell from the article in the OP? Can we really tell exactly what happened based on the article? And I don't think there's really any way to answer your question in terms of numbers.

[clublights]

Well, honestly, I don't know who abused the system here. Can you really tell from the article in the OP? Can we really tell exactly what happened based on the article? And I don't think there's really any way to answer your question in terms of numbers.

Well true I didn't expect an actual number back as much as I was making the point that the ability of CPS to take children on an emergency basis has merit and Good intent. I'm sure they have taken many more kids for good reasons that all of us would agree with and support, And that this happens many more times more often then an abuse of the system as apparent from the current report of this incident..

[dwalker460]

Because as we know, cops never get it wrong...

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/cops-kill-dog-handcuff-kids-in-wrong-house-raid/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/12/18/no_knock_raid_on_wrong_house_goes_wrong/

[dwalker460]

Also, CPS and similar are emboldened by thier police protection. I know a few officers that have had to work closely with CPS and they dont have a lot good to say about it. While obviously there are occassions that demand outside intervention, my personal opinion as a father is that society has ceded too much authority to nameless faceless employees that often exercise authority in situations where they should, bluntly, butt the hell out of. Hiding behind armed men only makes it worse.

[Chad4000]

Also, CPS and similar are emboldened by thier police protection. I know a few officers that have had to work closely with CPS and they dont have a lot good to say about it. While obviously there are occassions that demand outside intervention, my personal opinion as a father is that society has ceded too much authority to nameless faceless employees that often exercise authority in situations where they should, bluntly, butt the hell out of. Hiding behind armed men only makes it worse.


absolutely agree.....

[Bailey Guns]

Because as we know, cops never get it wrong...

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/cops-kill-dog-handcuff-kids-in-wrong-house-raid/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/25/jose-guerena-arizona-_n_867020.html

http://www.saysuncle.com/2007/12/18/no_knock_raid_on_wrong_house_goes_wrong/

FFS. Some people just can't look at anything rationally. Who, exactly, said the cops "never get it wrong" in this thread, except you?

Have you ever made a serious mistake or error in judgment? Do plumbers, mechanics, pilots, presidents, janitors, stock brokers or humans in general make mistakes. Some of you guys are just petty in your ridiculous comments.

[Chad4000]

^^ Police are held to a higher standard then plumbers and janitors....

[Chad4000]

its a thankless job for sure... i dont envy the posistion that our good officers are in one bit...

[clublights]

Cops make mistakes.. yeah it happens.. yes they are held to a higher standard...

all of the links dwalker posted are examples of why no knock raids should either be banned or MUCH MUCH more tightly controlled. ( I vote for tighter controls)

But here again ... WHY attack the cops ? The cops were there under orders to help CPS. they had little to zero knowledge of the story .. hell for all YOU know the cops only heard a 1/4 of the story. kid sick.. needs surgery. parents took him secretively out of the hospital.

The police from what I see here currently acted on good faith. I have no doubt CPS is the boogie man on this one.

[BigDee]

The parents did the right thing and continue to do the right thing by cooperating.

Whoever caused this blunder will pay both with their career and with a lot of money after the family is paid out in lawsuits.

For the record I'm not fond of this situation but I'm also not fond of reading stories about children who die after their parents refuse medical treatment for them. There was an article I recently read about parents who had two children die because they refused medical treatment and prayed for their children to be healed.

[Bailey Guns]

Apparently impossibly high standards according to some.

[dwalker460]

meh, Im not being petty, just making the opposite point as you. Not standing up to the police is how Germany became Nazi. Kinda along the same lines as how the Chinese became Communist, and not far from how Cuba has suffered all these years.

Remember folks, the 2nd does not guarantee the right to keep and bear arms to defend yourself against the deer and bears, but against politicians and those who serve them. Would I, personally, harm an officer who accompanied a DHS/CPS other alphabet soup agency to take my child, property, or otherwise perform an act I deem as illegal? Not sure. But, knowing myself all these years as I have, I can promise you that while I am fatter and slower and uglier and perhaps less mean-spirited than in the younger years, it is still a 50/50 chance that any such efforts would be met in a way that would not end well for all parties involved.

And just to remind you, Waco and Ruby Ridge had a bunch of official folks "just doing thier jobs", and it ended badly for everyone....

[clublights]

Did anyone else watch the video and interview with the couple on the article ?

[dwalker460]

ANd yes, the CPS is the bad guy, but the COPS are the ones who threw the father on the ground, the cops are the ones who exercised poor judgement by coming into a situation without full knowledge and acting in a way that violated the law. The law they are supposed to at least have a basic working knowledge of. Come on man! Seriously? Your telling me that you roll up to meet a CPS lady on scene and the guy comes out and says hi and the next action is to put his face in the dirt? Really? And then to actually physically enter a private residence on what? A CPS report? As an officer your just go with it? Never question the mother, or the father as to what is going on? Where was the "Ma'am we are here to serve this blah blah blah as an action brought about by blah blah blah and we are unfortunately going to have to remove the child from the home at this time, if you like you may accompany us down to balh blah facility where the Judge/Advocate/whomever will explain your rights blah blah blah in this case. Do you understand all I have told you Ma'am?"

So its completely cool with you that they rolled up, assaulted the homeowner, removed a child from the home, and just rolled out? really? Never figured you for the Gestapo but I never said I was a great judge of character...

[Chad4000]

meh, Im not being petty, just making the opposite point as you. Not standing up to the police is how Germany became Nazi. Kinda along the same lines as how the Chinese became Communist, and not far from how Cuba has suffered all these years.

Remember folks, the 2nd does not guarantee the right to keep and bear arms to defend yourself against the deer and bears, but against politicians and those who serve them. Would I, personally, harm an officer who accompanied a DHS/CPS other alphabet soup agency to take my child, property, or otherwise perform an act I deem as illegal? Not sure. But, knowing myself all these years as I have, I can promise you that while I am fatter and slower and uglier and perhaps less mean-spirited than in the younger years, it is still a 50/50 chance that any such efforts would be met in a way that would not end well for all parties involved.

And just to remind you, Waco and Ruby Ridge had a bunch of official folks "just doing thier jobs", and it ended badly for everyone....

agreed here too...

[clublights]

ANd yes, the CPS is the bad guy, but the COPS are the ones who threw the father on the ground, the cops are the ones who exercised poor judgement by coming into a situation without full knowledge and acting in a way that violated the law. The law they are supposed to at least have a basic working knowledge of. Come on man! Seriously? Your telling me that you roll up to meet a CPS lady on scene and the guy comes out and says hi and the next action is to put his face in the dirt? Really? And then to actually physically enter a private residence on what? A CPS report? As an officer your just go with it? Never question the mother, or the father as to what is going on? Where was the "Ma'am we are here to serve this blah blah blah as an action brought about by blah blah blah and we are unfortunately going to have to remove the child from the home at this time, if you like you may accompany us down to balh blah facility where the Judge/Advocate/whomever will explain your rights blah blah blah in this case. Do you understand all I have told you Ma'am?"

So its completely cool with you that they rolled up, assaulted the homeowner, removed a child from the home, and just rolled out? really? Never figured you for the Gestapo but I never said I was a great judge of character...


Ok with it??? not in the slightest being realistic about it yes.

you tihnk the rank and file street cop is going to question every detail of the case with CPS ? really? you think the cops just grabbed the dad and tossed him on his face ? you don't think he was a little hostile ( as all of us would be!) before he got tossed? Sure HIS story was he was doing nothing and they just tackled him .. but why is it when I hear those stories even see video.. they leave the part right before they get tackled where they tell the cop " fuck you pig I'll never go back to jail"

[Bailey Guns]

So its completely cool with you that they rolled up, assaulted the homeowner, removed a child from the home, and just rolled out? really? Never figured you for the Gestapo but I never said I was a great judge of character...

Apparently you can't read, either.


Fortunately for this child, his parents were a little more level-headed. While I understand the sentiment it would've ended far worse than it did for everyone involved.

The police probably had nothing to do with this other than to escort CPS to the home after being told there's a child in danger. You can resist all you want and your "appropriate levels of force" would've been met with even more force over which you wouldn't be able to prevail. And how would that turn out for your child or your wife? Or you?

No, these parents were smarter than that. Yes, it's a severe injustice and it's a disgrace. No question. But in the end, I bet the courts side with the parents and I bet someone will be made to pay big $$.

[davsel]

Nothing new

http://f05cff0b8dde4b14dcbb-39ae6c0e90f9ab066a65187af475ed6d.r73.cf2.rackcdn.c om/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/elian.jpg

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

And you apparently either didn't read or didn't comprehend this part:



But being outraged about what you know about others is much more fun, isn't it?

I don't have nearly as much fun "being outraged" as you do licking badges, but that's what cops do to other cops isn't it? Don't ask, don't tell.

[clublights]

Topic locked in 3......2................1.........

[Dave_L]

*edit* I was way off base on this one. I'd be pretty fired up.

If it was so bad, why did they give the child back so quickly?

[Chad4000]

lol... in before the lock!

[dwalker460]

Umm, I EXACTLY think the rank and file officer should have a working knowledge of the laws they are sworn to uphold. And yes, this means that if they are called in and the story from CPS doesnt match what they are seeing, then hell yeah there is a need to question it. Officers are supposed to be trained observers. This means they are supposed to notice things. Things like a clean home, a happy baby, concerned parents, the actual condition of the child, you know, unimportant little things like that.
ASSuming that they noticed these things, then they should start asking questions. Ma'am has your baby been fed today? Is your baby sick? Whats his medication and are you following the schedule? Dependant on answers then they can either CHOOSE- its called DISCRETION- to report back what they observe and ask for further investigation etc. I am not familiar with California law (thankfully) but it seems that is what the first two officers did, the ones who went to the hospital and spoke to the parents the night before. If they dont feel good about the situation they can just leave the scene and report back thier findings. CPS does NOT control the department.

Also, had the father assaulted the police officers, it should have found its way into the report. There is possibly even footage from a squad car video cam. If it exonerated the officers, fairly certain it would have already made it out into the public eye. So I have a hard time reconciling your point. I watched the entire video. I can clearly see three officers enter a home without a warrant of any kind and proceed to take a child from his mother.

Also of note is there is no documentation being released by the CPS. They know they fucked up. Its often not what they tell you, but what they arent and in this case the lack of ANYTHING from the .gov side is speaking volumes.



Ok with it??? not in the slightest being realistic about it yes.

you tihnk the rank and file street cop is going to question every detail of the case with CPS ? really? you think the cops just grabbed the dad and tossed him on his face ? you don't think he was a little hostile ( as all of us would be!) before he got tossed? Sure HIS story was he was doing nothing and they just tackled him .. but why is it when I hear those stories even see video.. they leave the part right before they get tackled where they tell the cop " fuck you pig I'll never go back to jail"

[Bailey Guns]

Wait...we've had references to Nazis and the Gestapo. All we're missing are the "jack-booted-thugs".


I don't have nearly as much fun "being outraged" as you do licking badges, but that's what cops do to other cops isn't it? Don't ask, don't tell.

I haven't been a cop for over 10 years. But it's really not your hatred of police that I find so amusing...it's more your child-like mentality.

[dwalker460]

Apparently you can't read, either.


I can read, and I get where your coming from. You were at one time an officer. In your mind the public should just bow to the police, because if they dont the consequences are bad. If for some reason the cops genuinely fucked up then hey, just let a court of law sort it out. I get that. And most of the time, I can agree.
If Im not speeding but get a ticket, then meh, go to court and fight the ticket.
If I get cited for stealing something I paid for, then sure, into court we go.

BUT- no knock my home and I just come out with my hands up and offer to make coffee? Are you fucking kidding me? YOU would allow that to happen? Your sleeping in your bed and someone enters your house and you...what? NOT reach for the HD weapon near your bed and shoot at any un-identified armed person moving throughout your house? Are you sure? Because I have to tell you, I am not that disciplined...
Take your child from your house with no warrant and little to no explanation? Really? You mean you would not have a fistfull of shotgun holding the officers at the front door until you figured out WTF was going on?
If so, then you sir are a much better human being than myself.

[clublights]

*edit* I was way off base on this one. I'd be pretty fired up.

If it was so bad, why did they give the child back so quickly?


Kid is still with CPS. have for two weeks

They had court today according to the article.

[clublights]

Take your child from your house with no warrant and little to no explanation? Really? You mean you would not have a fistfull of shotgun holding the officers at the front door until you figured out WTF was going on?
If so, then you sir are a much better human being than myself.


you'd be a dead father at that point.

THAT is exactly what would happened. he would had a shotgun and the officers would have blown him away and it would be a justified shooting.

[Bailey Guns]

Dead is right. Then where would your kid be? Like I said....childish.

[UncleDave]

The real problem is the lack of a warrant or court order to remove the child. That is jack-booted-thuggary (just for you Bailey ;) ). Without that the LEO's and CPS has no leg to stand on. Even the most rookie cop knows, if you have no warrant and are not invited in then get a warrant. That is procedure 101. I have lots of family and friends in law enforcement in CA and no way they would pull this crap. As far as CPS around Sacramento, they don't protect s#%t! I have personal experience on several occasions where they leave kids at the mercy of sexual predators. They saw an immigrant couple who they thought they could steamroll. CPS is worse than worthless.

[Bailey Guns]

^^ Tanks.

[dwalker460]

you'd be a dead father at that point.

THAT is exactly what would happened. he would had a shotgun and the officers would have blown him away and it would be a justified shooting.

Really? Im dead? When did badges become bulletproof?

I find it simply hilarious that in any discussion of a civilian confronting an officer with firearms the officer always wins. I guess thats the type of indoctrination that is needed to keep citizens in check. I think it is somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that I would be the one dead. Perhaps even a little insulting, but its cool man. I am older, slower, fatter, and uglier than I used to be, and not nearly as mean spirited...

[BushMasterBoy]

If you are abused by the local authorities... inform the FBI here http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law/color-of-law

[Bailey Guns]

That's right. Keyboard commandos are the bullet proof types. The cops probably would've been so intimidated they would've just licked each others badges and left with their tails between their legs, overcome by internet badass awesomeness.

[Kraven251]

guess the only question I have after reading all of this back and forth...Bailey, do you have children?

[lowbeyond]

Just following orders. Huh. Nice

[dwalker460]

That's right. Keyboard commandos are the bullet proof types. The cops probably would've been so intimidated they would've just licked each others badges and left with their tails between their legs, overcome by internet badass awesomeness.

Do not resist citizen, we will kill you....

[halletts]

Whoever caused this blunder will pay both with their career and with a lot of money after the family is paid out in lawsuits.


I'll believe it when I see it...

[clublights]

Really? Im dead? When did badges become bulletproof?

I find it simply hilarious that in any discussion of a civilian confronting an officer with firearms the officer always wins. I guess thats the type of indoctrination that is needed to keep citizens in check. I think it is somewhat presumptuous of you to assume that I would be the one dead. Perhaps even a little insulting, but its cool man. I am older, slower, fatter, and uglier than I used to be, and not nearly as mean spirited...

in the video .. just as an example.. there were at least 4 officers.... plus you figure at least oe more outside with the father......

so you can kill 5 trained officers before they over power you ??? oh and while badges are not bulletproof.. vests are.. and I'm quite sure they were all wearing one.

Oh and they have that one friend.. motorola...... then all of their friends with guns show up ... again .. your dead and your child is still with CPS.


you ARE a badass.

[Bailey Guns]

guess the only question I have after reading all of this back and forth...Bailey, do you have children?

I don't do surveys. If you have a point, make it. Hopefully it won't be quite as strained as some of the others.

[dwalker460]

in the video .. just as an example.. there were at least 4 officers.... plus you figure at least oe more outside with the father......

so you can kill 5 trained officers before they over power you ??? oh and while badges are not bulletproof.. vests are.. and I'm quite sure they were all wearing one.

Oh and they have that one friend.. motorola...... then all of their friends with guns show up ... again .. your dead and your child is still with CPS.


you ARE a badass.


Enhance your calm citizen. Obedience is your only option. Do not resist. No not fight back. Enhance your calm citizen.

Got it, nice message.

FWIW, we will likely never know how _I_ will perform in such a situation, and again, for the most part I just go blah, whatever when it comes to LEO interaction. However, I will not be bullied, threatened, or otherwise intimidated. Badge or not. Vest, radio, and helicopters or not.

And its obvious you have never been shot in a vest,. It hurts. You are not likely going to get up in a big hurry. Enjoy the delusion that the police have the upper hand over the citizenry.

Enhance your calm citizen. Obedience is your only option. Do not resist. No not fight back. Enhance your calm citizen.

[Kraven251]

I don't do surveys. If you have a point, make it. Hopefully it won't be quite as strained as some of the others.

My only point is as a very recent parent to my first child, and only taking the facts as what was represented in the article, I don't think anyone would have responded well to the chain of events. While I honestly don't know what would have occurred I know my wife would not have given our child over so easily. I also know I would have asked for a whole bunch of paperwork that they didn't have with them.

The moment they entered that home without the proper paperwork in hand, coupled with the fact the second hospital allowed them to leave with the child, says to me that the Police officers and the CPS involved were on the wrong side of the process and possibly even the wrong side of the law.

beyond that it becomes speculation as to what is justified...

Based on your overall stance, I was merely curious what you would do if they came for your child in a similar fashion, but the prelude to that is a simple one, you would have to be in the club.

[clublights]

Look CPS is going to try and prove they were in the right .. even if they were wrong. Doing anything to resist violently would NOT play well for the father in court PERIOD.

Yes I hope that everyone involved has their asses sued off. I prey this NEVER happen again ( this is ASSUMING the story we are being told is the true and the whole truth... )

Sorry that you disagree that the Police officers are the last at fault in this and are attacking them over it. It's CPS and the doctors that have really screwed the pooch.

[Hound]

Because those people are looking at it from a civil rights/perceived rights issue and the cops are looking at it from the law/department mandates.

+1

It comes down to right and wrong.