10lb recoil spring in full size 1911 question

[crashdown]

Guy I know and a former professional competitive pistol shooter swears that a 10lb recoil spring is what should be run in a full size 1911 in .45 cal. He swears up and down it wont cause any damage to the gun regardless of bullet weight used.
Everything I can find suggests at least around a 16lb spring unless you are shooting lower power, or lighter weight rounds.
I want to take his advice as I assume he would know what he is talking about, but don't want to beat up my guns to see if he is right or wrong. I guess I should mention is his reasoning for the lighter spring is faster, and more accurate follow up shots, and smoother cycling.

Any ideas?

[ray1970]

Really depends how the gun is set up. Not only will a light spring cause accelerated wear but can also cause cycling issues due to not having enough force to push the mass of the slide forward all the way.

[spleify]

I've been running 16 or 18 lb springs or 16-18 lb variables for 25 years and this is the first I have ever heard of a 10lb preference. I personally wouldn't take his advice

JM2C

[ray1970]

Off the top of my head, I think I used to run a 17# in my full size pistols and a 21# in commander size.

[ray1970]

The ten pound spring is also going to make perceived recoil seem higher. Part of the function of the spring is to absorb some of the force of recoil and the reciprocating slide.

In other words, the heavier the spring the softer the gun will shoot. You know, for faster follow up shots and such.

[crashdown]

Logic, reason, and research backs up everything stated here so far, just wondered if there was anything to back this guys claims up in anyone's experience.

[BPTactical]

Standard weights for a fullsize are 16-18#.
if he is running downloads then 10# may be acceptable but with standard loads you are going to batter the frame to bejeebus.

[ray1970]

Typically, you want to run the heaviest spring that still let's the gun function reliably. If he was a former competitive shooter there is a good chance that a heavier spring might have made his gun choke on his low powered competition loads.

I had a five inch Colt that I shot for years. My Bianchi cup load was a 155gr semi-wadcutter (can't recall the velocity, but it was pretty low) and I think I still ran a 13# spring in it.

[crashdown]

He is swearing the 10lb is for standard loads, not lighter ones.... just trying figure out how someone who seems like they should know a thing or two could be be so off.

[ray1970]

Go with what you think is right. If you think he's right then put a 10 pound spring in your pistol. Worst you can do is beat it up or break something. Best case scenario, he is correct and you will love the awesomeness of it.

[Coffee]

[KS63]

Ask to see his pistol and look at the lower link lug and his frame. It's either battered to hell or cracked. His loads must be be ultra light. This advice sounds dangerous and expensive.

[crashdown]

Ask to see his pistol and look at the lower link lug and his frame. It's either battered to hell or cracked. His loads must be be ultra light. This advice sounds dangerous and expensive.

I would, but I have found that questioning the opinion of a gun shop owner, gunsmith, or anyone who is in the gun profession seems to irritate the shit out of them even when done with a good dose of humbleness and tact. Thought maybe someone here has run across someone else who was a fan of the lighter (or too light) springs, and shed some light on the thinking behind it.

[ray1970]

The world of firearms is no different than anything else.

A few winners and a whole lot of losers.

I met a guy at the range one day. Older guy. Claimed to be a Marine vet. Vietnam era. The guy was so full of $hit and so misinformed about all things firearm related I tried to ignore him, thanked him for his service to our country, and moved on.

Not everything you hear is the gospel truth. If one person tells you something and a dozen more disagree with that opinion you can just about bet that opinion is skewed.

Plus, Bert has spoken.

The guy knows his way around a firearm or two.

Do you dare doubt his word?

[KS63]

Go check out 1911Pro.com. This forum is loaded with a ton of info from well respected 1911 pistol smiths. Ask your question again and I'm sure the responses will be similar to those expressed here. Don't worry if you think your question is remedial. This site is nothing like other 1911 forums.

[KS63]

I would, but I have found that questioning the opinion of a gun shop owner, gunsmith, or anyone who is in the gun profession seems to irritate the shit out of them even when done with a good dose of humbleness and tact. Thought maybe someone here has run across someone else who was a fan of the lighter (or too light) springs, and shed some light on the thinking behind it.
IMO, if asking for clarification on a modification for a better understanding of why they recommend it, you need to walkout the door. A smiff' who takes pride in their work and reputation should encourage these questions. It will build a better relationship between the two parties. Again, my $.02

[10x]

A 10 lb recoil spring with standard 230 gr loads will result in the slide peening and eventually being ruined. 16 lb recoil spring is the correct rate.

[Hoser]

A steady diet of full power 45 ACP ammo and a 10 lb recoil spring is not a good thing. The barrel locking lugs will start to roll and worse things will start to happen shortly after that.

I like a 14-15 lb recoil spring on a bull barrel 5 inch gun when shooting a 230 gn bullet around 730-750 fps. On a bushing barrel a 15 lb is fine, for me.

My 9x19 likes a worn out 12 or a new 10 lb spring and my 40s like 12s.

[Zombie Steve]

Always touchy going over to the next berm and explaining that it's your brass...

[Coffee]

[BigNick73]

The 10-12 lb springs are for light semi wadcutter loads usually used for bullseye competition. You will beat the slide to death shooting full 230grn loads in it. This was actually a problem with the old gold cups that had the lightened slide. They came stock with a 12lb spring meant for light bullseye loads and the slides were cracking because people were shooting 230grn loads out of them w/o swapping springs.

If you want smoother cycling and faster follow ups go too heavy (20+lbs) and clip coils off the end until it'll cycle reliably with whatever load you like to use.

[MrPrena]

Maybe the guy who recommended 10lbs springs had a real carbon fiber custom made slide.

[J]

Ooh. Where do I get one of those? [Coffee]

[MarkCO]

"Professional Competitive Pistol Shooter", if you add "former" there are maybe a dozen guys total that would fit that classification in the US.

Anyway, there were a lot of bullseye shooters using 10 to 12 pound springs, but they were shooting low velocity, heavy slugs. The reduced recoil spring weight brings the slide velocity back up to normal speeds and aids in reliability with those types of loads.

However, most "accomplished" shooters in the action sports where speed is a factor use reduced weight springs and or lightened slides/bolts to decrease cycle time. 12 to 15 pound springs are common in 1911s of the top pros. The "recoil" is the SAME no matter if you use a 10# spring or a 16# spring, but how it is delivered to you the shooter through the frame will change. It will also change which parts wear and the rate, but total energy delivered to the shooter is unchanged! A tighter "fit" will also allow one to use a pound or two less spring weight and result in no change in wear patterns.

Comparing say a 15# spring to a 18# spring, if you have the requisite skills, the 15# will result in faster splits and a smaller spread on the double taps than the 18# spring. The "accomplished" shooter will likely prefer the lighter spring to the stronger spring. The average shooter will likely prefer the stronger spring to the lighter spring and will see no difference in performance. Also, realize that there are great pistolsmiths that are average shooters and great shooters that are average gun plumbers. There are a scant few who are near the top in both areas so you really need to balance out the shooter vs. smith tension with some logic. Also, a top pro does not care if he wears out a gun, he will just get a new one.