Bugging in?

[TheGrey]

I've seen a lot of posts about bugging out. There are definite pros and cons to bugging out, but there are also pros and cons to bugging in, provided some modifications are made to our home...

At least, that's my line of thinking. I don't really like the idea of bugging out- I mean, where would I go? If the SHTF, there will be all sorts of blocked roads and I imagine gas will be in short supply.

I'd like to consider bugging in (unless there are things such as firestorms or things that absolutely require leaving home) and working within that mindset.

Am I alone in this?

Please tell me your opinion. Tell me pros and cons, and anything else about this subject you care to. I'm listening! :)

[USAFGopherMike]

I've had the same thoughts. I live in a residential area though. One of the biggest problems I see is that I do not have 360 clear field of fire/surveillance capability & defensibility, the house is partially made of wood and will burn easily, offers no ability to cover/conceal, is way too approachible, etc, etc. I'd like to be some place more remote, but the ability to get there is a problem. My after action solution is dependent on the problem. If my truck runs, I'm leaving the house after supplies run out or the situation dictates it.

[Goodburbon]

Sand bags can make any home bullet resistant. Kids like digging holes in the yard.

Water will be your main problem.

[cstone]

Water will be your main problem.

and sewage.

[blacklabel]

Bugging in is the first option with bugging out only occurring if the SHTF in a major, major way.

[SuperiorDG]

Read "Surviving the Economic Collapse" by Fernando Rerfal Aguirre. It changed my view about bugging out to an isolated area. People out in the sticks will have little to no help if they are attacked. You cannot hold out forever under an attack. Being among people may be an asset.

[blacklabel]

If we did bugout, it would be to meetup with family. I got over the fantasy of living in the woods after I had a kid and the reality of life hit me like a ton of bricks.

[roberth]

I think what happened in Argentina will more closely resemble coming events here in the States. I own "Surviving the Economic Collapse" by Fernando "Ferfal" Aguirre, it is a good book http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

I don't know how the Latin American countries handle MS13, I don't know if Latin Americans are easier marks than typical North Americans or not. I expect more illegals to come to Colorado, many of them will be gang members, some hardcore, most will be working towards hardcore. Citizens will have to deal with the increased violent crime as well as further devaluation of the dollar.

Police, fire, and EMT protection will fall off because the political parties don't really care about providing essential services, they'd rather use taxes to buy votes.

I would recommend ammunition, medical supplies, water, food, the order of importance depends on what you have already.

[gnihcraes]

I've planned to bug in for a long time now.

I feel it's easier to know what I'm dealing with. Neighbors, roads, where I can and can't go easily. Bugging out will be difficult unless I have a huge head start on everyone else. Fuel consumption, packing up enough equipment and supplies. I doubt I get far away. Rather stay home with what I do know and enough fuel for days of juice from the generator if needed.

I have two small creeks north and south of the house, 1-2 blocks away. I can hual water if needed. I keep about 55 gallons on hand.
I try to keep a bunch of food supplies, but still lack a significant amount.
I know the neighbors, one or two will watch their side of the streets, I'll watch the others on my side. We can see 1-2 blocks in most directions.

I just look at the Atlanta situation, and don't plan to go anywhere unless the environment forces me to.

http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/houston.jpg

[Wulf202]

Depends on the scenario.

[Singlestack]

Like cstone said, water and sewage are key. For me, those would be the biggest concerns. I would be forced to relocate if they were gone/failed. Otherwise, I would attempt to hunker down and survive in place as long as I could.

[TheGrey]

Thanks for the responses- it's nice to know there are others with that in mind.

I've tried to think of scenarios that would force a bug-out situation, and have come up with this list:

Destruction of home: fire, flood, gas leak, some sort of weirdness like a vehicle crashing into our house and rendering it unstable, sewer backup (ick).

Aside from that, I find it hard to think of a situation that may force us to leave. I'm in a residential area. Our neighborhood is fairly tight, and appears to have quite a number of ham operators.

[Tinelement]

I'm bugging in.

I have a 1 and 3 yr old. Not super mobile.
We are good. Have food here, water behind the house, and a few lakes within a mile. And cows in a pasture behind us.

Now, I am looking at some land in Wyo! [Evil]

[gnihcraes]

And I have the camper if need be, camp on site.

I fear the earthquake here in the front range. I plan each day, the possibility that I have to stay at work or walk home due to serious transit damage.

I keep some water and food in my office at work, and my backpack is a BOB that I carry each day. Bug in at work. Bug out to Home.

I've never thought much about it, but I could Bug Out to Work, but it's downtown and I don't see that as a good option.

[palepainter]

Out in the county here, plenty of water with in a couple hundred yards. I can goose hunt from my back door most of the year if I had to. Most of the neighbors are on the same wavelength as me. We have coordinated responsibilities between us. Good to stay as long as possible.

[Great-Kazoo]

Thanks for the responses- it's nice to know there are others with that in mind.

I've tried to think of scenarios that would force a bug-out situation, and have come up with this list:

Destruction of home: fire, flood, gas leak, some sort of weirdness like a vehicle crashing into our house and rendering it unstable, sewer backup (ick).

Aside from that, I find it hard to think of a situation that may force us to leave. I'm in a residential area. Our neighborhood is fairly tight, and appears to have quite a number of ham operators.

I would expect and plan for sewer back up / sanitation failure. Sealing off your sewer line from the grid should be a plan, after all other items have been addressed. A leeching field can be done with enough labor and or power equipment, centralizing sanitation down hill from your water supply and living quarters.

Regarding a hard to leave scenario. Try Roving mobs who have superior number, and firepower. You take care of family first AND ALWAYS SAVE enough bullets to take care of them. ESPECIALLY any females in the family / group.

Having a "lot of ham operators" doesn't mean anything
1) are they gun owners with enough ammo
2) Do they think or feel the same way you do
3) how much food stores do they contribute to the "neighborhood"?
4) Exactly how many other "Hams" will they be telling what your situation is
5) How many folks have they told you're the gun owner
6) How much dead weight do the hams and others in your AOO have.

While it's nice to have communication lines available doesn't mean or do anything IF they are not on the same page. Family down the block has a nice pre electronic ignition car. I wouldn't depend on his help for anything. WHY? Because he's an OBAMA drone and would the one of the first i'd shitcan off the street. But hey that's me.

One more item regarding "A situation that may force you to leave"

After reading One Second After and Lights Out read this novel It will have you rethink a Hard to imagine "worse case scenario" Really make you rethink it

http://www.amazon.com/The-Survivors-Book-After-ebook/dp/B0049B31FW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1367391130&sr=8-5&keywords=angela+white+life+after+war

http://www.amazon.com/On-Road-Book-After-ebook/dp/B004BDOTZE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1367391130&sr=8-4&keywords=angela+white+life+after+war

[hunterhawk]

It's all about having a group of people you trust in my opinion if things really got crazy... Maybe I read too many books.. But if you have a defensible position, numbers, and as states.. Food, guns, ammo, first aid, other goods for trade and barter you have a head start on 90% of the people... I work with a great bunch of guys and through are families a lot of people with skills... And we are always talking about what we want to do... The thing that sucks is preparing isn't cheap...money is everyone's greatest feat in being prepared... Buy a little of whatever you are lacking every month or everytime you get paid and spend less on junk ie fast food and things you can't reuse...when we are said in done we hope to bug out a short distance to bug in.. If that makes sense.. Driving 2+ hours if you wait too long will be tough... All depends on the senario obviously..

[Sawin]

I would expect and plan for sewer back up / sanitation failure. Sealing off your sewer line from the grid should be a plan, after all other items have been addressed. A leeching field can be done with enough labor and or power equipment, centralizing sanitation down hill from your water supply and living quarters.

Regarding a hard to leave scenario. Try Roving mobs who have superior number, and firepower. You take care of family first AND ALWAYS SAVE enough bullets to take care of them. ESPECIALLY any females in the family / group.

Having a "lot of ham operators" doesn't mean anything
1) are they gun owners with enough ammo
2) Do they think or feel the same way you do
3) how much food stores do they contribute to the "neighborhood"?
4) Exactly how many other "Hams" will they be telling what your situation is
5) How many folks have they told you're the gun owner
6) How much dead weight do the hams and others in your AOO have.

While it's nice to have communication lines available doesn't mean or do anything IF they are not on the same page. Family down the block has a nice pre electronic ignition car. I wouldn't depend on his help for anything. WHY? Because he's an OBAMA drone and would the one of the first i'd shitcan off the street. But hey that's me.

One more item regarding "A situation that may force you to leave"

After reading One Second After and Lights Out read this novel It will have you rethink a Hard to imagine "worse case scenario" Really make you rethink it

http://www.amazon.com/The-Survivors-Book-After-ebook/dp/B0049B31FW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1367391130&sr=8-5&keywords=angela+white+life+after+war

http://www.amazon.com/On-Road-Book-After-ebook/dp/B004BDOTZE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1367391130&sr=8-4&keywords=angela+white+life+after+war



Both of those books are FREE right now for the Kindle Edition. I just had them delivered to my iPad. Thanks Jim!

[Chad4000]

after I had a kid and the reality of life hit me like a ton of bricks.

amen to that...certainly changed what I would do..

[TheGrey]

Okay, now we're really getting into the meat of the issue.

Jim- those are excellent points. We have a good neighborhood for the most part, but I really don't know the people (especially the HAM radio folks) well enough to discuss their mindset. There's only one Obamaphile on the main street (well, that I can tell- he has an Obama bumper sticker on his pet Smart Car) but I guess I don't really know. You pointed out the elephant in the room- roving mobs. The idea of roving mobs marauding down the street makes my blood run cold. We've got elderly folks in the neighborhood that need to be cared for. Younger people with little kids...how the hell do you start a conversation about SHTF scenarios?

Frankly, I have no idea how to even broach the subject of guns, prepping, emergencies and so on. Crap, I'm even more out of my depth than I thought. :/

[StagLefty]

Grey-Wealth of info here for preppers,plenty of sub forums:http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/

[Wulf202]

Take frugal with truckloads of salt.

[Omicron]

I've always planned on bugging in, at least initially. I think if there's a widespread SHTF scenario, there'll be panic, looting, lots of violence, gang and thugs taking advantage, and general chaos for a while. Whatever authority figures are still functioning will try to clamp down, but short of complete martial law, they won't have much impact. Then there'll be a widespread die off of the sheeple who can't prepare and expect everyone to take care of them, probably starting about a week in and lasting up to 6 months. Finally those that were prepared and hunkered down will emerge, and society will start to rebuild.

My feeling is that while all this happens, it's a bad time to be out and about. I plan to disappear, and am set to hunker down for 3 months quite comfortably, and probably even longer - up to a year or more. If it goes much past 3 months, we'll then bug out to our first alternate location, with family in the mountains.

[BushMasterBoy]

If you are going to stay put, I think having a wood stove and wood is of great importance. You can still cook, stay warm and boil water for sterilization.

[Great-Kazoo]

If you are going to stay put, I think having a wood stove and wood is of great importance. You can still cook, stay warm and boil water for sterilization.

SODIS as an alternative for water purification, http://www.sodis.ch/methode/index_EN
However i'll refer to wulf202 as our H2O expert.

Smoke gives away position if it gets that ugly.

[SuperiorDG]

If you are going to stay put, I think having a wood stove and wood is of great importance. You can still cook, stay warm and boil water for sterilization.

Three words "propane and propane accessories"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FA__4fLBos

[TheGrey]

Thanks for the link, StagLefty!
Wulf202, you're the water expert? Is it advisable to keep water in those 55-gallon drums I've seen for sale for an arm and a leg, or is it safe for me to squirrel away gallon jugs in many areas?
I'd never heard of the SODIS method- seems pretty straightforward.

Getting a woodstove means a whole lot of reconfiguration...

[Wulf202]

Buy food grade drums on craigslist. Should cost about $30. Coloradotankandbarrel is a member here.

The only real downside to barrels is the full weight and getting the water out when you need it.

I advise both small and large containers. Ill write more when im not on my phone

[roberth]

Buy food grade drums on craigslist. Should cost about $30. Coloradotankandbarrel is a member here.

The only real downside to barrels is the full weight and getting the water out when you need it.

I advise both small and large containers. Ill write more when im not on my phone

Thank you Wulf202.

[StagLefty]

Take frugal with truckloads of salt.
You don't think there's valid info on there from like minded folks ?

[TheGrey]

Buy food grade drums on craigslist. Should cost about $30. Coloradotankandbarrel is a member here.

The only real downside to barrels is the full weight and getting the water out when you need it.

I advise both small and large containers. Ill write more when im not on my phone


Thanks! I'm all ears on this subject.

[TheGrey]

We're on city water, so if we lose access to that for any reason we're in a world of hurt.
Those blue barrels- is it safe to buy them used, if I clean them out with bleach and water?

I saw the Aqua-tainers at Walmart, and I like those because you can stack them.

[Wulf202]

You don't think there's valid info on there from like minded folks ?

Screen name frugal. Board founder and owner. Fucktard and fearmongering salesman. Also a bigot.

[Wulf202]

We're on city water, so if we lose access to that for any reason we're in a world of hurt.
Those blue barrels- is it safe to buy them used, if I clean them out with bleach and water?

I saw the Aqua-tainers at Walmart, and I like those because you can stack them.

Re barrels what hbar said.
Re aquatainers. Buy better containers. Those suck.

[Great-Kazoo]

We're on city water, so if we lose access to that for any reason we're in a world of hurt.
Those blue barrels- is it safe to buy them used, if I clean them out with bleach and water?

I saw the Aqua-tainers at Walmart, and I like those because you can stack them.

Water treatment. First rule of survival. Search ;)

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/55421-Water-treatment-cheat-sheet

[TheGrey]

Aquatainers suck? Damn. So much for an easy-ish fix. I'll start looking around for containers like you've got pictured.

[Stone83]

Bugged in (for me) is 1st option...
but, we're in the middle of nowhere Arap. Cty, on 300 ac. so it's easier for us.

And, I 100% agree with the fact that water is primary, and shelter then food.
(I got the firearms/ammo checked off already)
And no, I wont share!!....(trades will be considered...)

[Wulf202]

To beat a dead horse with the aquatainers. The plastic is thin and gets brittle with UV exposure. The spigot of 2 of mine leaked when left with water in them and facing in the "down" position. (it's a cube so it's hard to explain.) As Hbar explained they are hard to carry.

The spectr can pictured above is far superior. It's easier to carry 2 spectres thru things like doorways since they're thinner.

If you want to stack things get waterbricks.

If you need to be budget minded consider square 5 gallon food grade buckets. They stack and are easier to carry, and cheap.
Consider reusing any juice or soda bottles, you can get the trays they come in.

Never reuse anything that contained non food items. Also don't reuse milk product containers. Don't reuse biodegradable containers (milk type jugs)

[Irving]

Sportsmans sells 30 gallon blue barrels for water. A little easier is manage and tuck under a work bench in the garage. As long as you have any type of tubing, getting water out of containers should be the absolute least of your worries.

[TheGrey]

Stone 83, sounds like you've got a good situation.

Wulf202- I appreciate you sharing that information. You've saved me some money and aggravation, since I was going to pick up Aquatainers this weekend.

Irving, I didn't realize they came in more manageable sizes! A 30 galllon water barrel offers a lot more storage possibilities...

[Irving]

Keep in mind that it still weighs 240lbs as water weighs about 8lbs per gallon. Now that I think about it, I was able to lift my blue barrel, so it must only be a 15 gallon one.

[Wulf202]

Your survival priorities need to be based around the rules.

The rule of 3

3 minutes without air
3 hours of exposure to severe elements
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
3 months without hope


Starting from the top, learn CPR (and general first aid like TCCC). Get a gas mask or atleast a box of n95 masks. Before your worry about shelter.

learn how to dress appropriately, carry spares, learn how to build a shelter, learn how to fix your bug in location (boarding windows, patching roofs etc), building a fire for heat. Before you worry about water

Now we get to water;
The average house has a 50 gallon water heater, you can get the water out of there, you can also drain your pipes, salvage from the toilet tank, all of that is clean water. Your p-traps and drains can be salvaged and filtered. You can also save your urine and distill it.

You can add storage. Barrels can be located in basements since they fit down stairwells, you can stack them in a corner of the basement if you have one. They're round so you have some space loss. The barrel pump HBar pictured works pretty good, jiggle siphons also work in more applications than the pump, but you have to be lower than the water level. http://www.amazon.com/Super-Siphon-Hose-Pack/dp/B000ZORJ1E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367460252&sr=8-1&keywords=jiggle+siphon

You can get totes that are 275ish gallons but they're 4'ish cubed, you can stack them and they have valves. Water can be stashed in small containers, you also can take it with you to bug out if necessary, it's readily available for immediate use, also works as handouts for charity if needed.

http://www.waterbrick.org/

Water BOB's http://www.waterbob.com and similar setups can be used if you have warning, along with every pot and tupperware you have.

You can get spas and pools but the water must be treated. Also if the authorities aren't involved you can set up a rain and water catchment to supplement but you need to have treatment on hand.

15gallon
http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=21&products_id=14&zenid=e74df72e6c82d901669b113e1cbbe74b
55 gallon
http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_5&zenid=e74df72e6c82d901669b113e1cbbe74b
sanitizing
http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=2&zenid=e74df72e6c82d901669b113e1cbbe74b
http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=3&zenid=e74df72e6c82d901669b113e1cbbe74b

You do not need to rotate water, city water is already treated with chlorine so you don't need to add chlorine if you store it.

The barrels are durable enough that freezing isn't much of a concern. Small containers will leak if they get frozen.

[DSB OUTDOORS]

I'm "IN" Buggin that is. I'm a gated community of one and I mean to keep it that way if I can help it. Thats my 1st option. Check list covered for the most part. 2nd option bugg out, if I have to.

[hatidua]

water barrels, larger 12-50gal, (forum member if I recall, links to specifics listed in post several up) - http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com

Scepter military water cans (cheapest place I've found) - http://techsupplyinc.com/pages/products.php?cid=6

[DFBrews]

Stainless beer kegs they stack hold 15 gallons of water use the hand pumps that you get to pour beer and you can boil sanitize them

[gnihcraes]

Arizona tea jugs from walmart. 1/8 inch thick polypropylene, very strong. I have many filled and sitting around.

http://ravelingroup.com/wordpress1/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/1-gal-water.jpg

[Irving]

Arizona tea jugs from walmart. 1/8 inch thick polypropylene, very strong. I have many filled and sitting around.

http://ravelingroup.com/wordpress1/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/1-gal-water.jpg

Me too. Well, not that many, about as many as are in the picture.

[jonny450r]

After getting on this site with like minded people and me actually getting a clue. I will be bugging in as long as I can. At first I was thought bugging out would be easier but the question became clear "where would I go?"

The fiancée's family is in Littleton and mine is in grand junction. So the first option of going to her parents house is kinda out unless mine is un-reach-able or destroyed . But I can see it being the other way will be the more likely scenerio, if the roaming gangs start, they would hit them first cause of were they live and I'm kinda in the middle of no where. Criminals are opportunistic and lazy, they'll almost always go after the easy target first.

Going to my parents would be treacherous just by the distance and geographic challenges from here to there and it might be even worse depending on route, how the smaller towns react to an end of the world scenerio, and the weather.

Today kinda shows that if you have to bug out you have to be prepared for damn near everything possible within reason year round. For example: If for some reason I had to bug out on sunday 75 and head to my parents house it's roughly a 5 day walk according to google, I would have been caught in the high country in snow and really low temps. Regardless if it only lasts a day or two. You can only survive 3 hours in extreme temperaures without protection or shelter.

Just that last part alone is what made me focus on bugging in more rather then bugging out.


sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

[Great-Kazoo]

water barrels, larger 12-50gal, (forum member if I recall, links to specifics listed in post several up) - http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com

Scepter military water cans (cheapest place I've found) - http://techsupplyinc.com/pages/products.php?cid=6

the board member who owned it moved. not sure who runs it now. If anyone goes there pm or em me before hand.

[HoneyBadger]

water barrels, larger 12-50gal, (forum member if I recall, links to specifics listed in post several up) - http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com

Scepter military water cans (cheapest place I've found) - http://techsupplyinc.com/pages/products.php?cid=6

What is the difference between the $33 MWC and the $13 "military style" water can?

[Wulf202]

Density of the plastic. Lid. Durability in general. Spend the money

[jonny450r]

Not to open a can of worms, but if you have the water storage barrels and you set them up to collect rain water, is it really illegal in co? I keep finding different answers. Or is it one of thoose things most code enforcement ignore until they can find something bigger on you?


sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

[Goodburbon]

Having a few barrels, remember you can set them up tierd to catch water when WROL kicks in. Not like the water court's comin for you TEOTWAWKI.

[kidicarus13]

Not to open a can of worms, but if you have the water storage barrels and you set them up to collect rain water, is it really illegal in co? I keep finding different answers. Or is it one of thoose things most code enforcement ignore until they can find something bigger on you?
http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?t=101281

[jonny450r]

http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?t=101281

Thanks! Now on with the regular schedule discussion.

sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

[HoneyBadger]

Having a few barrels, remember you can set them up tierd to catch water when WROL kicks in.

What exactly do you mean by this?

[Irving]

What exactly do you mean by this?


Ever see where they stack champagne glasses like a pyramid and fill them all by only pouring into thetp One?

[HoneyBadger]

Ever see where they stack champagne glasses like a pyramid and fill them all by only pouring into thetp One?
Ahhhhh i see. I was trying to picture some really elaborate collection system. [Bang]

[TheGrey]

GREAT info, all! I can see where any 'spare' money will be going this summer.

Does anyone have any decently-priced sites for safety doors for patios?

[Wulf202]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/First-Alert-Windham-36-in-x-80-in-Black-Steel-Prehung-Security-Door-50536X80/202530437#.UYM6zcp8uZE

[Rooskibar03]

water barrels, larger 12-50gal, (forum member if I recall, links to specifics listed in post several up) - http://www.coloradotankandbarrel.com

Scepter military water cans (cheapest place I've found) - http://techsupplyinc.com/pages/products.php?cid=6


Good peeps up there. I've got 200 gallons worth of various barrels from them. That along with 15 or so cases fom Costco, WaterBob, and a Berky filter for the nearby pond, I feel pretty good about my water situation.

[Wulf202]

so... you are saying the 3 inch thick AR500 steel door and steel and concrete door jam was overkill?

That sounds good. Unless you let a marine anywhere near it. Then you might need stronger hinges. Those fuckers can break anything.

[HoneyBadger]

Where in the name of God do you find 3" thick AR500??? Where can I get some?

(Can't imagine how much that would weigh... lol)

[Great-Kazoo]

Where in the name of God do you find 3" thick AR500??? Where can I get some?

(Can't imagine how much that would weigh... lol)

I have 4 sheets of it, behind our blast doors. You southern guys are way behind the curve.

[HoneyBadger]

I have 4 sheets of it, behind our blast doors. You southern guys are way behind the curve.

Apparantly...


How much does a door-sized sheet of AR500 cost? Where should someone look if they were interesting in buying some?

[Great-Kazoo]

Apparantly...


How much does a door-sized sheet of AR500 cost? Where should someone look if they were interesting in buying some?

If you were interested i'd call around your area to metal dist and or manufactures / fabricators.. if no luck there's always banks / AAtargets in the industry partners sect.

[Wulf202]

Aa targets. Industry partner can do a custom sized ar500 plate I'd bet.

1/2" would be manageable by 2 guys.

[TheGrey]

That sounds good. Unless you let a marine anywhere near it. Then you might need stronger hinges. Those fuckers can break anything.

Hah! Marines (or any of our military folks) come in through the front door. :)

I'd think a 3" AR500 steel and conrete door would be a bit much for our deck. That would be the strongest part of the house....

[Badger]

I'd like to consider bugging in (unless there are things such as firestorms or things that absolutely require leaving home) and working within that mindset.

Am I alone in this?



Nope, we have everything we need, (and many things we probably won't) right here. Sure we can venture off into the wilderness though and live just cozy there too, been there done that. Probably not ideal for some but wife and I love it and live it. Fortunately have a group of like minded friends with similar skill sets too, so there's always the option of forming a little colony elsewhere if necessary.


Badger

[Irving]

My cousin has part of an old press that was used to press pop top tabs for aluminum cans riding in the back of his truck. Probably weighs a couple hundred pounds. Maybe I could buy it from him... If I remember correctly, it is probably 15" X 36"

[Goodburbon]

My cousin has part of an old press that was used to press pop top tabs for aluminum cans riding in the back of his truck. Probably weighs a couple hundred pounds. Maybe I could buy it from him... If I remember correctly, it is probably 15" X 36"
Grade of steel matters. 7.62x39 and .223 will cut right through .375 mild steel. And cast iron may as well be aluminum foil .

[Goodburbon]

If you're thinking of using it for bulletproofing, that is.

[Irving]

Understood. Think it'd be marked on there?
ETA: More like target shooting.

[jerrymrc]

What one puts in front of the steel layer is very important. Defeating AP rounds is not hard but one has to get them to turn. I will leave you with that thought.[Flower]

[jonny450r]

Saw this article about urban survival might be worth reading if your bug in plan is closer to Denver and the other big cities.
http://www.deathvalleymag.com/2013/05/10/urban-survival-the-5-things/

sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

[HoneyBadger]

Saw this article about urban survival might be worth reading if your bug in plan is closer to Denver and the other big cities.
http://www.deathvalleymag.com/2013/05/10/urban-survival-the-5-things/

sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

So you can't defend your house, but you can't bug out on foot either. Sounds like the only viable option for survival is to predict the future and be settled in to your remote retreat before the SHTF. Wishful thinking...

I guess I'll just dig a grave in the backyard and sleep in it.

[SuperiorDG]

So you can't defend your house, but you can't bug out on foot either. Sounds like the only viable option for survival is to predict the future and be settled in to your remote retreat before the SHTF. Wishful thinking...

I guess I'll just dig a grave in the backyard and sleep in it.

I guess that is why it's called SHTF.

[Sawin]

I guess that is why it's called SHTF.

haha, yep. Every decision you're forced to make will result in your untimely death one way or another. The length of time before that untimely death is what varies, so choose wisely.

But that goes for normal every day life, pre-SHTF too ;)

[jonny450r]

So you can't defend your house, but you can't bug out on foot either. Sounds like the only viable option for survival is to predict the future and be settled in to your remote retreat before the SHTF. Wishful thinking...

I guess I'll just dig a grave in the backyard and sleep in it.

If anything it reenforces the fact that if shtf and everything modern goes down, the "average person" wont have a clue but no one is invisible from it. As some people think they are when you talk to them about prepping and bugging in or bugging out.

sent from my fancy dancy phone that'll soon be outdated or broken

[HoneyBadger]

Back on topic, Costco is selling 55gal water barrels with a built in hand pump for about $65 IIRC. They are taking full advantage of the preppers in Colorado Springs. :)

[thedave1164]

With 5 kids, the youngest being 3, bugging in is our primary response.

We have (5) 55 gallon drums of water, along with a 30.

We have a berkey filter and several other filtration methods as well.

Gen set with gas.

Porta potti when the sewage stops.

[MED]

I am pretty thankful for my home location because all my essential resources are renewable. I still have two big prep items left: build my greenhouse, and connect my generator to my water pump. I have enough water storage to last me through a summer if my well were to fail with standing water adjacent to my property. I have abundant game (I can hunt from my deck with a bow every day of the week) and a smoker if needed so I just need to be able to grow vegetables and can in order to replenish my food supply. I completely heat my home with wood and I live in a thick wooded area with plenty of resources. I generally have about 200 gallons of gasoline and another 10 gallons of diesel as well as plenty of propane. If I do go into a bug-in scenario, then I will begin the process of cutting all vegetation within 100 yards of my house and initiating my fire mitigation strategy. I live in an isolated area that can easily be cut off from the world, and I have some really good neighbors to defend our little corner of the mountain, which has no nonresident traffic; the resources in the area should easily support me as well as my neighbors for at least five years. I still have a lot of work to do, but I can easily live in my home for a very long time as of today. My most substantial threats are illness and fire.


I wouldn't want to live in the city; but if I did, I would seriously harden my house. I would have all steal on steal frame reinforced doors with redundant locking mechanisms and I would have bars on all my first floor windows. All breach points would require significant time to entry increasing your response time. A sheet of precut plywood for each window would be a good idea so you can plug the hole when it breaks (plexiglass with caulking works really well too if the window has bars and you still want to have vision); additional lumber storage would be a great idea as well as a means to cut and fasten it including hardware for repairs. As mentioned earlier, water and sewage are serious problems. I would have the building materials to capture water, and I would consider getting a portable restroom and store it. I would definitely cut off my sewage line if it was on the city sewage; if it backs up, your house is unlivable and you would be forced to leave. I would only live in a house that had a fireplace or wood stove. If it had a fireplace, I would put an insert in it. I would keep as much wood as can be stored on the lot. Resources in an urban and most suburban situations are not renewable. Eventually, your food will run out and you will come out and play. At this point you will be at the mercy of your gang so you will be reliant on the social groups you build. When I lived in Aurora, I developed a friendship with a group of friends down the street; they had my back and I had theirs. These people become your biggest resource.

One thing I forgot: My suburban house had trees. I had fruit trees as well as shade trees. The fruit trees of course provided food; the shade trees provided fuel if needed; I had a wood stove. I also had an established garden. If you live in the city, hopefully, you have a privacy fence and plant both fruit and shade trees and cultivate a garden plot.

Second thing I forgot to mention: I keep a couple of cases of caulking. If your house leaks, you will lose it.

[ChunkyMonkey]

^ good stuff.. I like the pre cut board for your window idea.

[TheGrey]

Whoa, MED, you know a lot about this stuff. Thank you for sharing! I'm taking your window ideas and caulking to heart, and moving that up near the top of the list.

[Hound]

I think the correct answer is both. You defend and protect your home as long as possible with the ability to quickly minimize your assets to their most important items for survival.

it is not an either or...

[USAFGopherMike]

A note on fuel: Gas doesn't haven't a very long shelf life, 2 years with stabil I believe. Diesel is much better.

[TheGrey]

A note on fuel: Gas doesn't haven't a very long shelf life, 2 years with stabil I believe. Diesel is much better.

I'd wondered about that. Thanks!

[USAFGopherMike]

No Problem. I believe that when it comes to petroleum fuels, Gasoline is 2 years, Diesel is 5 years, and Propane is 10 when it comes to shelf life. Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's right.

[Great-Kazoo]

No Problem. I believe that when it comes to petroleum fuels, Gasoline is 2 years, Diesel is 5 years, and Propane is 10 when it comes to shelf life. Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's right.

Not today's gas blends. if a gallon last 6 months, it's a surprise. I just tossed 1.5 gal of gas that was correctly stabilized because it went bad. The up side was it didn't lacquer up the carb on my generator.

[MED]

A note on fuel: Gas doesn't haven't a very long shelf life, 2 years with stabil I believe. Diesel is much better.


No Problem. I believe that when it comes to petroleum fuels, Gasoline is 2 years, Diesel is 5 years, and Propane is 10 when it comes to shelf life. Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's right.

I don't really store my fuel; I rotate through it. Between all my vehicles, the plow, log splitter, generator, chain saw, etc.; I constantly use and replenish my fuel. Sometime in the near future I am installing duel fuel propane/gasoline systems on a couple of my old trucks including my bug-out truck.

[USAFGopherMike]

Thanks for filling that in Jim. The 2 yr shelf life was for non-ethanol blended fuel, which is out there if you can find it. The ethanol blended stuff is not as resilent.

[StagLefty]

Not today's gas blends. if a gallon last 6 months, it's a surprise. I just tossed 1.5 gal of gas that was correctly stabilized because it went bad. The up side was it didn't lacquer up the carb on my generator.

I have 2-5's of gas that I've had for awhile. I did add Stabil to both. How do you tell it's bad ?

[USAFGopherMike]

The color will change and become more yellow. Also, if you shine a flashline into the fuel, you may see bubbles. That's water. You used to be able to tell by the smell (rancid if bad), but I think that's changed with the ethanol blends.

Found this: http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Maintenance-Monday-Shelf-life-of-gasoline/1715-412027-322.aspx
and http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

[Wulf202]

Try it in a lawn mower or something.
I used stabil double dose on some regular and it was fine 3 years later. Stored in a shed

[brianut]

ditto to what Wulf said.
I just cycled through and refreshed my stores at just under 2 years with a double dose of Stabil and it seems to burn just fine in my 74 Bronco,stored in a shed as well.
The only thing that I noticed was it seemed to be a little more stubborn than usual to start,but just barely and once running was the same as the last tank i got from the pumps. I let my tanks get pretty emty too to make sure it wasn't getting a refresh from gas already in the tanks.

I stored it in steel cans though, so that may help some as plastic containers are for temporary use only as with most plastics it will "leech" through the container.
I just refreshed with some stabilizer from Briggs and Strat that claims 3 years with proper dosage. I will cycle through it more than likely in 1-2 years though.
I need to get on a regular rotation because I would hate to be on the end just before a refresh time and then SHTF and now you are starting with older gas. Maybe shorten it to 6 month interval but I was kind of testing this last batch.

and for what its worth on the steel plate, 1/4" - 3/8" mild steel plating will stop up to .45 handgun rounds(tested by me) at close range.
not sure on larger .44 mag or something as I dont have one. And yes rifle rounds including .17hmr will zing right on through.
7.62x39 goes right through 3/8 mild even at 90 yards,like butta.

The reason I bring that up is that mild steel could be installed as a blockage for handgun rounds and could be bought as =scrap and welded together to meet the size you need. If things get ugly and you are aware of whoe is walking up to your door youd probably would be able to tell if they had a rifle but could obviously conceal a pistol easily,so mild steel could protect you from a pistol attack.

[StagLefty]

The color will change and become more yellow. Also, if you shine a flashline into the fuel, you may see bubbles. That's water. You used to be able to tell by the smell (rancid if bad), but I think that's changed with the ethanol blends.

Found this: http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Maintenance-Monday-Shelf-life-of-gasoline/1715-412027-322.aspx
and http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html
Thanks-I think I'm okay for now-stored in German gas tanks with rubber gasket cap and Stabil.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Look into Pennzoil Sea Foam! It's better than stabile.

[roberth]

ditto to what Wulf said.
I just cycled through and refreshed my stores at just under 2 years with a double dose of Stabil and it seems to burn just fine in my 74 Bronco,stored in a shed as well.
The only thing that I noticed was it seemed to be a little more stubborn than usual to start,but just barely and once running was the same as the last tank i got from the pumps. I let my tanks get pretty emty too to make sure it wasn't getting a refresh from gas already in the tanks.
/snip

I think the hard starting might be because butane has been evaporating out.

[MED]

my pickup has had the same gas in it untreated for going on 7 years. It runs fine. I just picked up a bike that had the same gas in it for over 5 years he said. He ran kind of sluggish, but ran. I added fuel to it and it works fine. I have all kinds of equipment with gas that is 1 year old in it and they work fine. Yes, its probably a good idea to cycle it out. Yes its probably not ideal to run old gas. But, you can. I do.

Last year I pulled out one of my old K5s from my lower property. It started and ran on fuel that was probably 7 years old; it didn't run great but it did run. I have a couple of old K5s with really old gasoline, and they both run.

[Great-Kazoo]

ditto to what Wulf said.
I just cycled through and refreshed my stores at just under 2 years with a double dose of Stabil and it seems to burn just fine in my 74 Bronco,stored in a shed as well.
The only thing that I noticed was it seemed to be a little more stubborn than usual to start,but just barely and once running was the same as the last tank i got from the pumps. I let my tanks get pretty emty too to make sure it wasn't getting a refresh from gas already in the tanks.

I stored it in steel cans though, so that may help some as plastic containers are for temporary use only as with most plastics it will "leech" through the container.
I just refreshed with some stabilizer from Briggs and Strat that claims 3 years with proper dosage. I will cycle through it more than likely in 1-2 years though.
I need to get on a regular rotation because I would hate to be on the end just before a refresh time and then SHTF and now you are starting with older gas. Maybe shorten it to 6 month interval but I was kind of testing this last batch.

and for what its worth on the steel plate, 1/4" - 3/8" mild steel plating will stop up to .45 handgun rounds(tested by me) at close range.
not sure on larger .44 mag or something as I dont have one. And yes rifle rounds including .17hmr will zing right on through.
7.62x39 goes right through 3/8 mild even at 90 yards,like butta.

The reason I bring that up is that mild steel could be installed as a blockage for handgun rounds and could be bought as =scrap and welded together to meet the size you need. If things get ugly and you are aware of whoe is walking up to your door youd probably would be able to tell if they had a rifle but could obviously conceal a pistol easily,so mild steel could protect you from a pistol attack.


Phone Books and wet newspaper, more availability then mild steel.

[muddywings]

thread revival...hope someone peeks in here for my query.

I'm moving out of our rental and into "our" first home. (I owed two during my military career, but since getting married and becoming a civvy, this will be our first house together). While I wish I could have picked a more defensible home, current work situation dictated where we bought and limited options and timing.

Anyway, I have a nice unfinished basement that is prime for a SHTF storage area. I'll be buying some water barrels pretty quickly but I didn't see a lot of talk in here about food.
I'm going to head down to the Mormon place in C Springs soon and check that out but wanted to ask opinions for long term food supplies. I am figuring that a minimum food/water to bug in with would one year's worth. Hopefully, by then all the die off would be complete and there would be small communities putting things back together (hopefully, like-minded people). Anyway, I digress. So long-term food supplies? Good brands? Good values? Taste? Mixing different things? ie: Mormon prepper food, bags of rice, bulk storage food from Costco, MREs?

Luckily, it's just the wife, the dog and me.

Thanks for the opinions.

[Great-Kazoo]

thread revival...hope someone peeks in here for my query.

I'm moving out of our rental and into "our" first home. (I owed two during my military career, but since getting married and becoming a civvy, this will be our first house together). While I wish I could have picked a more defensible home, current work situation dictated where we bought and limited options and timing.

Anyway, I have a nice unfinished basement that is prime for a SHTF storage area. I'll be buying some water barrels pretty quickly but I didn't see a lot of talk in here about food.
I'm going to head down to the Mormon place in C Springs soon and check that out but wanted to ask opinions for long term food supplies. I am figuring that a minimum food/water to bug in with would one year's worth. Hopefully, by then all the die off would be complete and there would be small communities putting things back together (hopefully, like-minded people). Anyway, I digress. So long-term food supplies? Good brands? Good values? Taste? Mixing different things? ie: Mormon prepper food, bags of rice, bulk storage food from Costco, MREs?

Luckily, it's just the wife, the dog and me.

Thanks for the opinions.

The LDS place i recommend macaronis, rice, flour small / short term potato pearls, quick oats apple slices and carrots.

[jerrymrc]

Start here. www.ar-15.co/threads/35633-amount-of-food-to-store? (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/35633-amount-of-food-to-store?)

I will add more later.

later.

www.ar-15.co/threads/19906-The-everything-about-food-thread?

[muddywings]

Start here. www.ar-15.co/threads/35633-amount-of-food-to-store? (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/35633-amount-of-food-to-store?)

I will add more later.

later.


www.ar-15.co/threads/19906-The-everything-about-food-thread? (http://www.ar-15.co/threads/19906-The-everything-about-food-thread?)

oops, my bad...got in here and got tunnel vision. Will check it out. Thanks.

[Great-Kazoo]

Forgot to add. If you're using a below ground area for storage, consider placing items on pallets / skids. Keeping anything off the floor even canned goods is always a plus.

[rbeau30]

Jim posted good info there. I keep my stored water on pallets, (not 55 gallon drums) and my buckets of staples in Mylar. Everything else is on heavy duty shelves where the first shelf is up off the ground.

The LDS cannery in Aurora is staying open until October. They said the same stuff will be available for purchase afterwards (already canned up) so I'm not panicking or anything. As long as I can go there and support them through purchase of the product I will continue to go there.