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james_bond_007
05-03-2013, 15:35
Realized I started getting "off topic" in the General Section, I moved (on my own) these posts to the CCW forum.

The discussion is around What is "Public Transportation" (Train, bus, elevator, escalator) and which statutes apply.
It is derived from some misinformation that was presented in a CCW class. from this thread http://www.ar-15.co/threads/101189-Son-s-attendance-at-a-concealed-course-uncovered-these-quot-facts-quot-I-was-not-aware-of

NOTE: Although the tone of my posts may seem "authoritative", they are more of "This is what I've found...Can anyone point out any errors "? (aside from my fat fingered spelling errors)
Please don't think that I'm challenging anyone or trying to tell others that they are wrong.
Nor am I trying to show that "I" know more than others" ..I'm not intending to do ANY of that.

It is just my way to do "summary and analysis" and trying to stimulate some debate and elicit others' opinions.

So I stick my neck out and say "This is what I think...show me where I missed the boat."

Thanks, in advance...and be nice...not nasty.

DISCUSSION OF CRS 18-9-115

EX: Let's explore subsection (1)(a)
18-9-115. Endangering public transportation
(1) A person commits endangering public transportation if such person:
(a) Tampers with a facility of public transportation with intent to cause any damage, malfunction, or nonfunction which would result in the creation of a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury to anyone; or
(b) Stops or boards a public conveyance with the intent of committing a crime thereon; or
(c) On a public conveyance, knowingly threatens any operator, crew member, attendant, or passenger:
(I) With death or imminent serious bodily injury; or
(II) With a deadly weapon or with words or actions intended to induce belief that such person is armed with a deadly weapon; or
(d) On a public conveyance:
(I) Knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another person; or
(II) With criminal negligence causes bodily injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon.
(2) "Public" means offered or available to the public generally, either free or upon payment of a fare, fee, rate, or tariff, or offered or made available by a school or school district to pupils regularly enrolled in public or nonpublic schools in preschool through grade twelve.
(3) "Public conveyance" includes a train, airplane, bus, truck, car, boat, tramway, gondola, lift, elevator, escalator, or other device intended, designed, adapted, and used for the public carriage of persons or property.
(4) "Facility of public transportation" includes a public conveyance and any area, structure, or device which is designed, adapted, and used to support, guide, control, permit, or facilitate the movement, starting, stopping, takeoff, landing, or servicing of a public conveyance or the loading or unloading of passengers or goods.
(5) Endangering public transportation is a class 3 felony.

EXAMPLE:
.........(1)(a) A person commits endangering public transportation if such person :
(i)...........(a) Tampers with a facility of public transportation [AND]
(ii)......................with intent to cause
(iii)....................................any damage, [OR] malfunction, OR nonfunction [AND]
(iv).............................................. which would result in
(v)............................................... ...........the creation of a substantial risk of death OR serious bodily injury to anyone;

For this to be a "crime" all parts (i), (ii), (iv) have to be TRUE.
AND
(ii) is limited to only the items in line (iii)
AND
(iv) is limited to only the items in line (v)


So as far as the "deadly weapons" clauses, it basically says that you can't use a deadly weapon to INTENTIONALLY (1)(c)(I or II) or UNINTENTIONALLY (1)(d)(I or II) do a "bad" thing to someone.

It does not say you cannot CCW on public transportation.

james_bond_007
05-03-2013, 16:38
Does CRS 18-9-118 prohibit CCW on the RTD ?



CRS 18-9-118. Firearms, explosives, or incendiary devices in facilities of public transportation

A person commits a class 6 felony if, without legal authority, he has any loaded firearm or explosive or incendiary device, as defined in section 9-7-103 (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=6256dc9d6f712d500f684545441acf45&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-9-118%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=2&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%209-7-103&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=1c4932ff1d0ab6199c8bd590226397a5), C.R.S., in his possession in, or carries, brings, or causes to be carried or brought any of such items into, any facility of public transportation, as defined in section 18-9-115 (4) (http://web.lexisnexis.com/research/buttonTFLink?_m=6256dc9d6f712d500f684545441acf45&_xfercite=%3ccite%20cc%3d%22USA%22%3e%3c%21%5bCDAT A%5bC.R.S.%2018-9-118%5d%5d%3e%3c%2fcite%3e&_butType=4&_butStat=0&_butNum=3&_butInline=1&_butinfo=COCODE%2018-9-115&_fmtstr=FULL&docnum=1&_startdoc=1&wchp=dGLzVzB-zSkAl&_md5=56fea23bda16005b3be2055123a904c2).

REFERENCES

CRS 9-7-103. Definitions
(3)"Explosive" or "explosive device" means any material or container containing a chemical compound or mixture that is commonly used or intended for the purpose of producing an explosion and that contains any oxidizing and combustible materials or other ingredients in such proportions, quantities, or packing that an ignition by fire, by friction, by concussion, or by detonation of any part of the compound or mixture may cause such a sudden generation of highly heated gases that the resultant gaseous pressures are capable of producing destructive effects on contiguous objects, but shall not mean the components for handloading rifle, pistol, and shotgun ammunition and/or rifle, pistol, and shotgun ammunition.

CRS 18-9-115. Endangering public transportation
(Discussed earlier)


Q1: Can a CCW permit holder carry live ammo or powder or bullets (without having a firearm) on the RTD?
A1: Yes. Per CRS 9-7-103, ammo or ammo components are NOT considered "Explosives" and are thus NOT prohibited by CRS 9-7-103, thus anyone that can legally possess ammo or components can carry it on the RTD.

Q2: Can a CCW permit holder carry a firearm on the RTD ?
A1: YES. As the CCW permit holder was granted the permit by their County Sheriff, and the Sheriff was empowered to grant said permit by the state statutes, providing the permit holder met the requirements, the CCW permit holder has been grated "legal authority" by the State of Colorado to carry a concealed weapon, per the CCW statutes. I can find nothing in the CRS or CFR that prohibits a permit holder from CCWing on the RTD.

NOTE: The term "without legal authority" is quite imposing, and leads one to believe it applies to only granting permission to LEO or Military personnel; however, that is misleading. Legal authority is that ability granted by the state (CRS) and/or Federal (CFR) government to those that meet state and federal requirements, and not exclusive to agents of those government agencies.

I could find no City of Denver codes that prohibit this...maybe I missed them?
maybe other cities that the RTD passes through have such codes ?
Anyone ?

james_bond_007
05-03-2013, 16:50
This post deleted, as I duplicated the previous post accidentally.[oops]

Hopefully SideShow Bob has recovered from his bout of "Double Vision".

...Sorry SSBob[sorry]

SideShow Bob
05-03-2013, 17:35
Damn, I havent even started drinking yet, but I am already seeing double......

TFOGGER
05-03-2013, 17:40
Damn, I havent even started drinking yet, but I am already seeing double......

Yer behind the curve, better drink up!

Gunyaga
05-06-2013, 11:37
I was searching for this earlier and came across; http://www.ar-15.co/threads/32962-No-Weapons-or-firearms-allowed-on-RTD/page3