View Full Version : Stroke my ego with a .40S&W argument I had with someone
CroiDhubh
05-11-2013, 14:50
Okay, so I had an argument with someone today in regards to .40S&W and the loads. Not only did the person argue the .40S&W wasn't enough with stopping power and called it "Short and Wimpy", he argued I would have to carry a +P in the gun. Now...not only is he an idiot for calling it "Short and Wimpy", but to further prove what an idiot he is, when I told him I carry a 180gr Speer Gold Dot, he said it would only be worth it to carry the 180gr in +P.
I told him you can't have a +P rating with a 180gr S&W and he told me, "Of course you can. They sell them all the time. Cops who don't know better carry it instead of a 9MM." I already figured this guy was a huge dumb ass, so I told him the 180gr .40S&W was developed for the smaller FBI guys and for the ladies since the 10MM was a little too much, and the load is at maximum allowed pressures for the cartridge for that weight. If one would go down to a 165gr or 155gr, then there could be a +P load, but not in a 180gr.
At this he scoffed telling me I'm giving false information and I decided there was no use arguing with stupid.
What say you?
clublights
05-11-2013, 14:52
How the rest of this thread will go :
No 9mm is better...
No 45ACP is better..
A pistol is only to fight your way to your rifle.
5.56 is better
7.62 is better...
in before the lock.
sellersm
05-11-2013, 14:54
Should've told him that he can get the 180gr +P+ in 10mm! Some people's kids. [facepalm]
I hate caliber wars...
What say you?
You're an adult, avoid caliber debates.
Club lights nailed it exactly.
wrestler034
05-11-2013, 15:27
How the rest of this thread will go :
No 9mm is better...
No 45ACP is better...
...
Nah, 10mm is best...
brokenscout
05-11-2013, 15:27
AT what point did politics or the abortion debate come up. I really try and never have those chats
CroiDhubh
05-11-2013, 15:36
How the rest of this thread will go :
No 9mm is better...
No 45ACP is better..
A pistol is only to fight your way to your rifle.
5.56 is better
7.62 is better...
in before the lock.
Yeah, let's not talk about what caliber is better. This has to do with the .40S&W specifically. Hopefully you got it out of everyone's system already *LOL*
Shot placement.
Agreed
TEAMRICO
05-11-2013, 15:42
Cry racism and walk away!!!!
Just tell him he is right and walk away.
Just say something like, "As long as it is enough to kill a Communist, it's good enough for me."
Make it some antiquated enemy though. Someone we are no longer fighting with.
SuperiorDG
05-11-2013, 16:05
It's only wimpy if you miss.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever complained that they were shot with not enough gun. 40 S&W has virtually the same kinetic energy as .45 ACP, with higher velocity. Almost no one disputes the effectiveness of the .45 ACP as a defensive handgun round.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever complained that they were shot with not enough gun.
This. :-)
Cylinder Head
05-11-2013, 16:21
I wouldn't want to be shot with one, but I hate the recoil characteristics of the 40.
I wouldn't want to be shot with one, but I hate the recoil characteristics of the 40.
Oh hear we go.......[Pop].........lol
Somebody needs to trot out the ol' "if it doesn't start with a 4"....
Scanker19
05-11-2013, 17:05
No one likes to leak......
Pick your own poison, it's your life on the line if you have to use it. Arguments over what is better are pointless.
KevDen2005
05-11-2013, 17:12
Oh hear we go.......[Pop].........lol
I think you mean "here"
I just wanted to be childish like the rest of these arguments...
blacklabel
05-11-2013, 17:31
Shot placement?
brokenscout
05-11-2013, 17:45
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/82110 180 grain +P
beast556
05-11-2013, 18:11
What I learned from helping out in a gun shop for 5 years is that 80% of people that come through the door including LE, are dumb shits and have no clue what they are spewing.
CroiDhubh
05-11-2013, 18:18
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/82110 180 grain +P
It's not actually a +P. It's a marketing ploy. You cannot have +P with a 180gr .40S&W. Buffalo Bore is one of a few people to try and pull the +P with that round. If it is a true +P, then I sure as shit wouldn't fire it. As it is, manufacturers tend to slightly lower the powder in 180gr .40S&W so they won't accidentally over power the cartridge.
Federal shows their 180 gr load at 1000 fps, Buffalo shows that load at 1100 fps, so there might be something to the +P designation. Reading the notes, they make a point of saying they recommend them only in "fully supported chambers", so no Glocks...[ROFL1]
kidicarus13
05-11-2013, 18:35
What I learned from helping out in a gun shop for 5 years is that 80% of people that come through the door including LE, are dumb shits and have no clue what they are spewing.
What I learned from visiting gun shops over the last 5 years is that 80% of the employees have no clue what they are spewing.
No offense to you of course fine sir.
How the rest of this thread will go :
No 9mm is better...
No 45ACP is better..
A pistol is only to fight your way to your rifle.
5.56 is better
7.62 is better...
in before the lock.
460 Rowland, your argument is pointless.... lol
Holger Danske
05-11-2013, 18:50
In....
We all know if it's not a 1911 .45, then it's not enough gun. [Coffee]
Did Ronin change his screen name?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
blacklabel
05-11-2013, 19:13
My penis is small so I carry a 9MM.
My penis is small so I carry a 9MM.
I carry a starter pistol.
UncleDave
05-11-2013, 19:18
I carry a rape whistle!
jerrymrc
05-11-2013, 19:23
I carry a starter pistol.
Flare gun with white stars.[LOL]I still never understand pistol caliber wars.
SideShow Bob
05-11-2013, 19:34
Take Uncle "Joe's" advice, "Just urinate & defecate yourself, and the bad guy will go away. There is no need for guns."
centrarchidae
05-11-2013, 20:03
This is why I carry a .25ACP Beretta. I already know that people are going to bag on my choice of sidearm being too small, so I don't get wrapped up in it and don't feel the need to respond.
Nah, 10mm is best...
Duh............
Aloha_Shooter
05-11-2013, 20:36
5 years ago I'd have said .22 LR because I could shoot him 50 times for under a buck!
Great-Kazoo
05-11-2013, 21:21
40's suck, now go stroke your own ego.
AND DON'T FORGET TO CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF.
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.5065575579255619&pid=15.1
Had a Northern CO PD tell me my 9mm was worthless IF i was involved in a fight. SO........... i say let me guess you carry a 40S&W
yes i do. Outside of quals, how often you hit the range. UH i don't. I thought so, now go write tickets.
One who Practices with a 22 is far superior to one who doesn't with a .45
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t207/chippy61/fun%20stuff/arguing-on-the-internet-bra-on-teats-on-bull-demotivational-poster-1281570485_zps3cd4409c.jpg
TEAMRICO
05-11-2013, 21:35
Shit man, I love my .40 S&W's and TAPCO Mags......there is NO HOPE for me then!
Just order some more TAPCO's yesterday.........Can you order MINUS P Ammo cuz I will!!!
Great-Kazoo
05-11-2013, 21:47
Shit man, I love my .40 S&W's and TAPCO Mags......there is NO HOPE for me then!
Just order some more TAPCO's yesterday.........Can you order MINUS P Ammo cuz I will!!!
You're in luck, Remington's had it out for some time.
http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4697136166341002&pid=15.1
Not a fan of the 180 gr bullet weight in the .40 S&W. Especiall the Speer Gold Dot. I have autopsy photos of a guy who was killed by LE in Pennsylvania after a shoot-out ensued. Subject was hit multiple times with .40 cal. 180 gr Speer Gold Dot bullets from approximately 25 feet away. One of the bullets, clear as day on the x-ray, penetrated about 1 1/2 inch, stopped, and remained completely intact (bullet did not mushroom). What ended up stopping the guy was 75 gr Hornady TAP rounds fired from an AR. So, since I also carry a .40 cal., I now have found better results in the lighter, 155 gr defense ammo. My 2 cents.
I don't like the point of impact rounds lighter than 180 gr in my gun.
Not a fan of the 180 gr bullet weight in the .40 S&W. Especiall the Speer Gold Dot. I have autopsy photos of a guy who was killed by LE in Pennsylvania after a shoot-out ensued. Subject was hit multiple times with .40 cal. 180 gr Speer Gold Dot bullets from approximately 25 feet away. One of the bullets, clear as day on the x-ray, penetrated about 1 1/2 inch, stopped, and remained completely intact (bullet did not mushroom). What ended up stopping the guy was 75 gr Hornady TAP rounds fired from an AR. So, since I also carry a .40 cal., I now have found better results in the lighter, 155 gr defense ammo. My 2 cents.
180 Gr JHP is where everyone seemed to start in .40 S&W. Many of the federal agencies currently in .40 S&W have moved to 165 and 155 Gr bullets. I really like the easy barrel swap between .40 S&W and .357 SIG, and don't perceive too much difference between my 155 Gr .reloads and the 125 Gr issued ammunition.
180 Gr JHP is where everyone seemed to start in .40 S&W. Many of the federal agencies currently in .40 S&W have moved to 165 and 155 Gr bullets. I really like the easy barrel swap between .40 S&W and .357 SIG, and don't perceive too much difference between my 155 Gr .reloads and the 125 Gr issued ammunition.
I agree. The .357 Sig is a great cartridge. I always wanted to get a commander-size 1911 chambered in that.
Cylinder Head
05-12-2013, 00:24
Not a fan of the 180 gr bullet weight in the .40 S&W. Especiall the Speer Gold Dot. I have autopsy photos of a guy who was killed by LE in Pennsylvania after a shoot-out ensued. Subject was hit multiple times with .40 cal. 180 gr Speer Gold Dot bullets from approximately 25 feet away. One of the bullets, clear as day on the x-ray, penetrated about 1 1/2 inch, stopped, and remained completely intact (bullet did not mushroom). What ended up stopping the guy was 75 gr Hornady TAP rounds fired from an AR. So, since I also carry a .40 cal., I now have found better results in the lighter, 155 gr defense ammo. My 2 cents.
I remember reading something about this where they even claimed the 75gr TAP was lacking. Interesting because that is a very popular and touted round for defense (I have a lof of the stuff myself).
KevDen2005
05-12-2013, 00:51
What I learned from helping out in a gun shop for 5 years is that 80% of people that come through the door including LE, are dumb shits and have no clue what they are spewing.
Huh, I generally feel the same way about most people behind the counter of most gun shops.
sneakerd
05-12-2013, 06:42
It's not the size of the pill you send downrange, it's shot placement.
Great-Kazoo
05-12-2013, 07:15
It's not the size of the pill you send downrange, it's shot placement.
And how much you practice.
Two schools of thought -
#1: hit the guy multiple times on target with smaller, controllable caliber.
#2: hit the guy one time on target with larger, harder hitting caliber with more recoil.
If it's in the sweet spot, it really doesn't matter which happens.
I'm of the first school of thought.
I told him you can't have a +P rating with a 180gr S&W and he told me, "Of course you can. They sell them all the time.
What say you?
You are both kind of wrong. +P is specific designation for a SAAMI cartridge. The +P loads, in most cases, are seen in older cartridges that now, with better components, higher pressures can be safely obtained. The .40 S&W was a more recent development and the "+P" rating does not have any official meaning since the cartridge was developed near maximum rated pressures with modern components. However, there are some loadings available that have been labeled as +P and in pressure barrels will in fact exceed SAAMI max. Those loads lack the testing and proof work of an official designation and I would not use them myself. I have tested some in pressure barrels and got readings of about 38 kpsi.
SO, you are right that there is no "rating" of +P for ANY .40 S&W. However he is correct that there are a few loads that are "over SAAMI pressure" in the .40 S&W. All in all, it is a silly argument to even enter. A discussion, for educations sake, with someone who has an open mind...might be worthwhile.
brokenscout
05-12-2013, 10:57
I just saw the ad, I personally don't like 40 cal anyways.
You are both kind of wrong. +P is specific designation for a SAAMI cartridge. The +P loads, in most cases, are seen in older cartridges that now, with better components, higher pressures can be safely obtained. The .40 S&W was a more recent development and the "+P" rating does not have any official meaning since the cartridge was developed near maximum rated pressures with modern components. However, there are some loadings available that have been labeled as +P and in pressure barrels will in fact exceed SAAMI max. Those loads lack the testing and proof work of an official designation and I would not use them myself. I have tested some in pressure barrels and got readings of about 38 kpsi.
SO, you are right that there is no "rating" of +P for ANY .40 S&W. However he is correct that there are a few loads that are "over SAAMI pressure" in the .40 S&W. All in all, it is a silly argument to even enter. A discussion, for educations sake, with someone who has an open mind...might be worthwhile.
CroiDhubh
05-12-2013, 12:09
You are both kind of wrong. +P is specific designation for a SAAMI cartridge. The +P loads, in most cases, are seen in older cartridges that now, with better components, higher pressures can be safely obtained. The .40 S&W was a more recent development and the "+P" rating does not have any official meaning since the cartridge was developed near maximum rated pressures with modern components. However, there are some loadings available that have been labeled as +P and in pressure barrels will in fact exceed SAAMI max. Those loads lack the testing and proof work of an official designation and I would not use them myself. I have tested some in pressure barrels and got readings of about 38 kpsi.
SO, you are right that there is no "rating" of +P for ANY .40 S&W. However he is correct that there are a few loads that are "over SAAMI pressure" in the .40 S&W. All in all, it is a silly argument to even enter. A discussion, for educations sake, with someone who has an open mind...might be worthwhile.
Mad respect for the history lesson and facts.
KevDen2005
05-12-2013, 12:53
You are both kind of wrong. +P is specific designation for a SAAMI cartridge. The +P loads, in most cases, are seen in older cartridges that now, with better components, higher pressures can be safely obtained. The .40 S&W was a more recent development and the "+P" rating does not have any official meaning since the cartridge was developed near maximum rated pressures with modern components. However, there are some loadings available that have been labeled as +P and in pressure barrels will in fact exceed SAAMI max. Those loads lack the testing and proof work of an official designation and I would not use them myself. I have tested some in pressure barrels and got readings of about 38 kpsi.
SO, you are right that there is no "rating" of +P for ANY .40 S&W. However he is correct that there are a few loads that are "over SAAMI pressure" in the .40 S&W. All in all, it is a silly argument to even enter. A discussion, for educations sake, with someone who has an open mind...might be worthwhile.
Thanks for the info. When and why did the .40 come out exactly? You seem like you would know. I have seen many different things on it and I never get a straight answer.
jerrymrc
05-12-2013, 13:16
Thanks for the info. When and why did the .40 come out exactly? You seem like you would know. I have seen many different things on it and I never get a straight answer.
1990
To be accurate, I would think one could (maybe not safely, but could) load a 40S&W +p+ load, but not a +p. Standard and +p are pressure ceilings for any given caliber set by SAAMI. While +p+ exceeds all pressure ceilings set forth by SAAMI. SAAMI hasn't released a +p spec for 40S&W, so I would think to be more correct, going over the SAAMI pressure ceiling would force you to label the round +p+. Though I'm not sure that either is correct. Would be weird to see a +p+ without a +p.
SA Friday
05-12-2013, 14:49
Thanks for the info. When and why did the .40 come out exactly? You seem like you would know. I have seen many different things on it and I never get a straight answer.
Redesign of the 10mm Auto. The Miami-Dade shootout started all the late 80s FBI ballistics testing for a better cartridge for their agents after the 9mm Win hollow points (115gr Silvertips) didn't cut it. They initially adopted the 10mm Auto, but it was too much for some of the Agents to shoot. They really liked the .41 AE cartridge, but it was just too obscure and IMI proprietary. S&W redesigned the 10mm to 40 S&W based on the FBI's specs.
SA Friday
05-12-2013, 14:51
There is no +p SAAMI spec for 40 S&W just like Mark said. If it says that on the box, I'm not shooting it and I'm not carrying it in my carry guns. Marks explanation is spot on IMO.
Redesign of the 10mm Auto. The Miami-Dade shootout started all the late 80s FBI ballistics testing for a better cartridge for their agents after the 9mm Win hollow points (115gr Silvertips) didn't cut it. They initially adopted the 10mm Auto, but it was too much for some of the Agents to shoot. They really liked the .41 AE cartridge, but it was just too obscure and IMI proprietary. S&W redesigned the 10mm to 40 S&W based on the FBI's specs.
If I recall, the FBI liked the 10mm ballistics, but it was too much recoil for their average agent. They downloaded the cartridge which left them with a lot of empty space in the case, but the weaker 10mm load was much easier for average shooters to control. When S&W and Winchester realized that they could make a smaller case than a 10mm with the same ballistics as the FBI load 10mm, they also noticed that they could produce pistols on smaller frames much like 9mm handguns, and this would benefit shooters with smaller hands.
The .40 S&W is a compromise between big bullet and small case/small frame pistol. Face it, there is no magic bullet [Coffee]
I thought the reason some agents struggled with the 10mm wasn't the recoil but rather the large frame pistols that chambered it. The 40 was an attempt to stuff 10mm firepower into a 9mm sized handgun.
I thought the reason some agents struggled with the 10mm wasn't the recoil but rather the large frame pistols that chambered it. The 40 was an attempt to stuff 10mm firepower into a 9mm sized handgun.
Both.
Some agents struggled with full load 10mm. The FBI downloaded the 10mm to what became the "FBI load" in 10mm, which is about what you get ballistics wise in 180 Gr .40 S&W. Other agents (smaller hands) struggled with full sized frame handguns, regardless of the recoil. Double stack .45 pistols are a handful compared to a Glock 17.
The Glock 22 seemed to be the best compromise for everyone. The Glock 23 and 27 make good plain clothes or back up guns. S&W just fell behind the curve in getting good, cost effective, double stack .40 S&W pistols to law enforcement agencies.
If you are interested in the history of Glock and how they came to dominate LE handgun purchases in America, a good read is Glock: The Rise of America's Gun
http://www.amazon.com/Glock-The-Rise-Americas-Gun/dp/0307719952
"I've always been able to convince my wife and daughter that the light recoiling 9's that they carry are better than my hard hitting and recoiling 40, that way they don't feel under gunned. I explain to them that real men only carry a bigger 40 cal gun because it's a macho thing something about the size of our penis. Maybe the guy you talked to hangs with my daughter. 9mm is a perfectly good defense round for weak people with small hands who can't handle recoil and have recently purchased a 9mm and need to justify there purchase." How's that for a macho answer that should work perfectly well for the average 9 beats 40 discussion. I like all of my 9mm's just fine, but I do have some 40 cals just in case I want more punch. I don't want to be on the business end of any gun let alone a 9 or 40. The 40 was developed because during the Miami shoot out of the 80's, 9's and 38's would not do adequate damage through windshields and car doors to end the fight. The FBI wanted a bullet that would go through a windshield and still penetrate ballistic gel a minimum of 13 inches. The 10mm was picked but gun size and recoil was a bit much so they began to down load the case and subsequently shortened it to the 40 dimension. In the 40's with modern bullets and propellants they still had better ballistics than the 9's and they could develop guns with the same frame size as the 9's.
Anything smaller than a tactical nuke is probably inadequate.
SA Friday
05-12-2013, 17:44
You ever wonder what 45 ACP would be like if it was invented within the last 30 years? Better metallurgy, better case design, more platforms to work around. It could have gone two ways, 45 GAP for the smaller frame or 460 Rowland in the large frame. The whole 40 S&W/10mm Auto development followed quite a predictable pattern IMO. Modern designed cases are pretty interesting both ballistically and developmentally, but no need for +p in them as they are set from the development to modern engineering capabilities.
Want to argue about ammo, someone explain WTF they were thinking with 357 Sig... Talk about a bullet-setback nightmare.
Great-Kazoo
05-12-2013, 18:09
If I recall, the FBI liked the 10mm ballistics, but it was too much recoil for their average agent. They downloaded the cartridge which left them with a lot of empty space in the case, but the weaker 10mm load was much easier for average shooters to control. When S&W and Winchester realized that they could make a smaller case than a 10mm with the same ballistics as the FBI load 10mm, they also noticed that they could produce pistols on smaller frames much like 9mm handguns, and this would benefit shooters with smaller hands.
The .40 S&W is a compromise between big bullet and small case/small frame pistol. Face it, there is no magic bullet [Coffee]
Dr. Fleming and 100's of thousand military personnel and civilians, would disagree with your last statement.
Thanks for the info. When and why did the .40 come out exactly? You seem like you would know. I have seen many different things on it and I never get a straight answer.
Based on my own research and what I have been told by some ballistics engineers that were working in the late 1980s, all of the issues above were considered and involved in the development of the .40 S&W. Here is a summary...
The .40 S&W came out in January of 1990 and received rapid adoption by LEAs with speed that was never seen before. The initiator of the sequence of events in the development was the FL shoot-out in 1986. The FBI started on a path to evaluate .45 ACP and 9mm auto-loading platforms. During these trials, the FBIs FTU lead agent interjected a 10mm Delta Elite into the mix. These trials attempted to compare loads to the FBI issue 158 .38+P as their acceptable standard and one of his handloads, a 170 JHP at 1000 fps, was the closest match. The FBI went to S&W to seek a conversion of the 4506 for the 10mm Norma in the downloaded version. Handloaded Sierra 180s at 980 fps were developed by the FBI and some claim the FBI provided this loading to S&W for the R&D. The FBI adopted the 10mm Norma in the M1076 auto-loaders in 1990. While the FBI had full power ammo, and tested it extensively in 1988 and 1989, records show it was never issued to rank and file agents...the reduced load being the issue ammo in 1990. Concurrently, S&W engineers realized that the reduced load would allow a shortened case which would fit into the 9mm sized platforms. They went to Winchester to develop the load. Funny thing is, Glock beat S&W on the release of the first "production" .40 S&W by a week. There were custom guns and ammo built prior to 1990 that were essentially .40 S&Ws, but most with large pistol primers. 5 years later the FBI adopted the G23 as the main service pistol for rank and file officers with G22s and G23s approved as well.
My G22, made in 1992 is still with me. It was a replacement frame Glock sent me after I blew up my 1990 G22, but that is a different story...
strm_trpr
05-12-2013, 19:48
The .40s&W is a proven load, damn near every PD that issues weapons in my local uses a g22 or g23 or both. The 40 has a great balance of intermediate barrier penetration and expansion in soft targets.
You ever wonder what 45 ACP would be like if it was invented within the last 30 years? Better metallurgy, better case design, more platforms to work around. It could have gone two ways, 45 GAP for the smaller frame or 460 Rowland in the large frame. The whole 40 S&W/10mm Auto development followed quite a predictable pattern IMO. Modern designed cases are pretty interesting both ballistically and developmentally, but no need for +p in them as they are set from the development to modern engineering capabilities.
Want to argue about ammo, someone explain WTF they were thinking with 357 Sig... Talk about a bullet-setback nightmare.
Explain to a non-reloader. I do enjoy watching these .40 and 9mm caliber banters knowing I carry something with enough kinetic energy to not worry about stopping power. I've never had a problem with factory ammo, only carry Speer Gold Dots, and the necked down case on the .357Sig makes for superb feed reliability IMHO. If setback is an issue, isn't that a QC problem with the manufacturer?
.357 SIG, 125 Gr Speer GDHP is a great round...when you don't have to pay for it out of your own pocket.
If anyone reloads .357 SIG, I have some nickel plated brass available [Flower]
How does the recoil of 357sig compare to 9mm and 40cal
kidicarus13
05-12-2013, 22:20
How does the recoil of 357sig compare to 9mm and 40cal
IMO: 357 is SNAP SNAP and loud! 9mm is the standard recoil. .40 pushes a bit and snaps.
.357 SIG, 125 Gr Speer GDHP is a great round...when you don't have to pay for it out of your own pocket.
If anyone reloads .357 SIG, I have some nickel plated brass available [Flower]
I got in on some deals a while back and I'm flush with it for a few years anyway. :D
How does the recoil of 357sig compare to 9mm and 40cal
"Snappy," even with an alloy frame P229. 9mm is way soft by comparison. Wifey can shoot the 9mm guns and .380ACP (P238), she won't touch the 1911 or .357Sig (yet). Haven't shot much .40 but I think it's comparable and .45ACP is more of a handful than the Sig.
My unscientific tests have proven that while a .40S&W or .45ACP will knock a 12-18" log off a rack and will most certainly not penetrate, the .357Sig will do so with zeal and leave it standing for a few more before tumbling over. :D
My 155 Gr .40 S&W reloads feel pretty similar to the 125 Gr .357 SIG Speer rounds. I shoot both out of my Glock 22, SIG P229, and SIG P250 subcompact. The P250 has the most felt recoil, but that is because it is the lightest and smallest handgun of the three. I once had a P226 in 9mm and it definitely felt like less recoil, but it was a heavier pistol.
I got used to shooting 110 Gr .38 Spl Treasury loads out of a 4" Model 15. I then moved onto 125 Gr .357 Magnums out of a 2.5" Model 19. None of my current semi-auto handguns seem to snap or jump as much as either of the revolver loads.
I think it is all what you get used to. If you shoot it accurately, go with it.
Be safe.
The only wimpy round is the one that someone will stand 10 feet in front of you and let you shoot them in the chest.
hghclsswhitetrsh
05-13-2013, 09:09
10 mm yo.
CroiDhubh
05-15-2013, 16:14
Yes, 10MM is awesome, especially in 220gr, however, this thread is about if 180gr can be a +P round in .40S&W, not about caliber selection.
Really, when it comes down to any other argument with handgun calibers:
1. Shot placement
2. Ammo selection
3 Caliber
Voception
05-15-2013, 16:25
Where is that post with the guy on craigslist looking for a 22mm. [Ban1] I win!
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