View Full Version : The NTSB recommends dropping that to a BAC level of .05.
More big brother....Now one beer and its off to the pokey.
Really? (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/14/18250824-ntsb-recommends-lowering-blood-alcohol-level-that-constitutes-drunk-driving?lite)
[Bang]
When Australia dropped its BAC level from .08 to .05, provinces reported a 5-18 percent drop in traffic fatalities.
so happy we are looking to AU for all of our laws
CroiDhubh
05-14-2013, 11:03
Some people produce close to this level on nothing more than eating rice... Rare, but happens
One beer is .2 to .3.
I have no problem at all with this. You are not responsible, go to jail. Drink 2 cases for all I care, just don't strap into a 2 ton car and go tooling about because you don't care about anything else.
Not even close to gun control or 99% of the other crap they push down our throats.
OneGuy67
05-14-2013, 11:07
We already have that as our limit here in Colorado.
.05-.079 BrAC - Driving While Ability Impaired (DWAI)
.08 - above BrAC - Driving Under the Influence (DUI)
For those under 21:
.02 - .049 "Baby DUI" - Class A traffic Infraction; second or subsequent violation is a Class 2 Misdemeanor
I think .08 is too low as it is, and like Cofi said, why do we need so much inspiration from AUS? How about instead of following or striving to be like everyone else, we be a little independent for a change?
People are sometimes effected by low BAC due to body weight, metabolic rate, genetics, or an empty stomach . . . but few people would be significantly impaired an hour after drinking a single beer or glass of wine. A single dose of a cough syrup like NyQuil could put you over the lowered limit, as could driving with a hangover. I think the NTSB should focus on texting drivers instead . . . they are a far worse problem . . . or how about stripping schizophrenics of driver licenses . . . perfectly legal for psychotics and even the mentally retarded to have a driver license once they manage to pass the written test on their 10th attempt and the driving test on their 5th try. And what about octogenarians who are now either legally blind or suffering from dementia? Those people are real hazards. Going after someone who had a beer with dinner or had some NyQuil under "zero tolerance" at random checkpoints is bullshit . . . if they were involved in an accident, that's a different story.
I have no problem with this I might be for it. As I see it driving is a privilege not a right like firearms. I know there was a supreme court case saying driving is a right under the bill of human rights. I dont agree with that ruling as there are plenty of other ways to travel with out driving especially when you had one too many...
DavieD55
05-14-2013, 11:36
It boils down to generating more revenue.
Chad4000
05-14-2013, 11:39
I have no problem with this I might be for it. As I see it driving is a privilege not a right like firearms. I know there was a supreme court case saying driving is a right under the bill of human rights. I dont agree with that ruling as there are plenty of other ways to travel with out driving especially when you had one too many...
ok...bigger argument then..
is societies accepted form of transportation reasonably expected while you are in search of happiness? I think so... couple that with penalties that are clearly outrageous and over the top, and we have a problem. I dont think it's fair to punish people for something that might happen... DUI check points dont even make you swerve to catch the eye of a cop. they literally engage you for zero reason, and slam you for something that might happen. as in you might have a wreck later tonight, which might result in an injury.. it, like everything else, is just revenue generation.
one beer an hour will already put you over the limit. average cost of a dui is roughly $10k.. every single person that leaves a bar on any given night is over the limit. if they are concerned about safety, put a cop right there everyday. they arent. they post a car on heavy traffic nights or something once in awhile, and they basically get their pick of whoever is leaving that night...
ok...bigger argument then..
is societies accepted form of transportation reasonably expected while you are in search of happiness? I think so... couple that with penalties that are clearly outrageous and over the top, and we have a problem. I dont think it's fair to punish people for something that might happen... DUI check points dont even make you swerve to catch the eye of a cop. they literally engage you for zero reason, and slam you for something that might happen. as in you might have a wreck later tonight, which might result in an injury.. it, like everything else, is just revenue generation.
one beer an hour will already put you over the limit. average cost of a dui is roughly $10k.. every single person that leaves a bar on any given night is over the limit. if they are concerned about safety, put a cop right there everyday. they arent. they post a car on heavy traffic nights or something once in awhile, and they basically get their pick of whoever is leaving that night...
I did a bit a of research and found a BAC calculator (http://dui.drivinglaws.org/calc.php) did and average man 180 pounds half an hour had 2 beers and the BAC was .0466 Under .05 BAC close but still under. so the arguement of having one beer and being over the limit is untrue i even did another calculation if you were 100 pounds and downed a beer in 6 mins your BAC would be .0433. Unless you have a source to prove that your argument is true. with your line of thinking to not punish a person because something might happen then we might as well legalize all drugs for recreational use because its unfair to punish a person for something that might happen. I might be a bit bias because of past experiences but that's my view on the subject.
flyingcouch
05-14-2013, 12:07
Not really related but funny none the less:
Recently a routine police patrol parked outside a local bar. Late in the evening the officer noticed a man leaving the bar so intoxicated he could barely walk. The man stumbled around the parking lot for a few minutes with the officer quietly observing. After what seemed an eternity and trying his keys on five different vehicles, the man managed to find his own car and fell into it. He was there for a few minutes as a number of other patrons left the bar and drove off.
Finally he started the car, switched the wipers on (it was a dry night), flicked the hazard flasher on and off, tooted the horn and then switched on the lights. He moved the vehicle forward a few inches, reversed a little and then remained stationary for a few more minutes as more patrons left in their vehicles. At last he pulled out the parking lot and started to drive down the street, the police officer, having patiently waited all that time, now started up his patrol car, put on the flashing lights, promptly pulling the man over and carried his breathalyzer test with him ... To his amazement the breathalyzer indicated no evidence of the man having consumed alcohol at all! Dumfounded, the officer said, "I'll have to ask you to accompany me to the police station, this breathalyzer must be broken. "I doubt it," said the man, "Tonight I'm the Designated Decoy."
I did a bit a of research and found a BAC calculator (http://dui.drivinglaws.org/calc.php) did and average man 180 pounds half an hour had 2 beers and the BAC was .0466 Under .05 BAC close but still under. so the arguement of having one beer and being over the limit is untrue i even did another calculation if you were 100 pounds and downed a beer in 6 mins your BAC would be .0433. Unless you have a source to prove that your argument is true.
That calculator should not be used as a legal adviser. It doesn't take in different genetics, metabolic rate, diet for the day, if they have eaten recently... several factors. So go ahead and rely on that calculator, and when you get popped for being over the limit and lose your license for year, we'll be here to say "Told ya so." [Coffee]
CroiDhubh
05-14-2013, 12:15
We already have that as our limit here in Colorado.
.05-.079 BrAC - Driving While Ability Impaired (DWAI)
.08 - above BrAC - Driving Under the Influence (DUI)
For those under 21:
.02 - .049 "Baby DUI" - Class A traffic Infraction; second or subsequent violation is a Class 2 Misdemeanor
Yep. Wrote a few people for DWAI because I could smell the odor of an unknown alcoholic beverage on their breath during a traffic stop and they failed SFST. Sometimes the initial contact wasn't even for something I would have related to having alcohol in the blood stream, just poor driving.
Delfuego
05-14-2013, 12:17
It boils down to generating more revenue.+1
We only dropped the limit from .1 to .08 to get federal transportation funding that was being threatened by M.A.D.D.
Dont need any note laws. We have enough.
That calculator should not be used as a legal adviser. It doesn't take in different genetics, metabolic rate, diet for the day, if they have eaten recently... several factors. So go ahead and rely on that calculator, and when you get popped for being over the limit and lose your license for year, we'll be here to say "Told ya so." [Coffee]
I don't drink. [Coffee]
lowbeyond
05-14-2013, 12:29
It boils down to generating more revenue.
ITYM Stealing People's Property Under the Color of law for Pre-Crime savez the children ! Its all good, its is exactly the same argument the gun grabbers make. ie) While you may have not harmed a soul or did any property damage, we shall restrict gun or magazine xyz, becasue hey its for the children. Somehow that is OK with pre-crime laws like DUI but not for guns.
Uh-huh
Chad4000
05-14-2013, 13:51
I did a bit a of research and found a BAC calculator (http://dui.drivinglaws.org/calc.php) did and average man 180 pounds half an hour had 2 beers and the BAC was .0466 Under .05 BAC close but still under. so the arguement of having one beer and being over the limit is untrue i even did another calculation if you were 100 pounds and downed a beer in 6 mins your BAC would be .0433. Unless you have a source to prove that your argument is true. with your line of thinking to not punish a person because something might happen then we might as well legalize all drugs for recreational use because its unfair to punish a person for something that might happen. I might be a bit bias because of past experiences but that's my view on the subject.
27825
Eh.. googled it and came up with that.. You can def see situations where one or two drinks would put people over. have a drink and leave in 30 minutes? yeah maybe..
um,, basically we have to draw a line somewhere. remember our rights should extend up until they infringe some one elses. now in extremes like hard drugs, we have to make judgement calls. is that the same as dropping the BAC requirement for harsh penalties down to the point where if you sniff alcohol you go to jail??? I dont believe so.. (and yes, you are sensing some exaggerations there). Everybody has past experiences on these subjects, and it's perfectly fine to weight your opinions with those.
Say you have 2 beers, and get stopped at a check point... lose your liscense for a year.. a year... insurance rates sky rocket (if it's even possible to get insured anymore), your job is at risk if not gone already, you pay thousands of dollars etc.
Say that happens again 3 years later,, automatic jail time.... (somebody correct me if need be)
a total of 4 beers could do this to you... I know how that sounds.. but it's correct
Put on more weight, it will help your BAC increase slower.
beast556
05-14-2013, 14:13
Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner here. All there seeing is more money they dont give a shit about people getting killed.
It boils down to generating more revenue.
Yep. Wrote a few people for DWAI because I could smell the odor of an unknown alcoholic beverage on their breath during a traffic stop and they failed SFST. Sometimes the initial contact wasn't even for something I would have related to having alcohol in the blood stream, just poor driving.These roadsides are BS and only serve to prop up the statements and reasoning of the officer. DUI reports read like the accused is falling down drunk and failing every single test, no matter their performance.
PS. this lowering of the limit from .08 to .05 will supposedly lower the DUI death toll by 500/year or 5%. Given the inflation of guesstimates, we would be lucky to successfully prove causality of even 1/2 that amount in reality. But let's ignore the heavy abusing repeat offenders and put laws on the books to catch everyone and anyone. If the DUI limit is set to .05, will the DWAI be lowered to .02 ?
clublights
05-14-2013, 14:38
If you read the CNN version of the article the NTSB guys show their hand they are after a .01 BAC ..
The NTSB said even very low levels of alcohol impair drivers.At 0.01 BAC, drivers in simulators demonstrate attention problems and lane deviations. At 0.02, they exhibit drowsiness, and at 0.04, vigilance problems.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/us/ntsb-blood-alcohol/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
I wonder where they are finding these people and giving them a .01 and causing them to drive poorly.
Well, the US needs to do something to protect its people. I propose that all alcohol over 40 proof (arbitrarily chosen) be banned from further sale. This would include all "hard alcohol" because as the name implies, it is scary and too much for the average person to handle. Furthermore, beer sales should be limited to no more than a 6-pack, as any more than that would clearly lead to binge drinking and in turn, death. All alcohol sales at bars and restaurants should be banned starting now, because as we are told by nanny, err gov. people cannot be trusted to any decisions. I propose this not as a restriction and punishment on those without issue, but as a protection for the good of the people. Then the gov should start the process to take away all cars.
These roadsides are BS and only serve to prop up the statements and reasoning of the officer. DUI reports read like the accused is falling down drunk and failing every single test, no matter their performance.
PS. this lowering of the limit from .08 to .05 will supposedly lower the DUI death toll by 500/year or 5%. Given the inflation of guesstimates, we would be lucky to successfully prove causality of even 1/2 that amount in reality. But let's ignore the heavy abusing repeat offenders and put laws on the books to catch everyone and anyone. If the DUI limit is set to .05, will the DWAI be lowered to .02 ?
Hence why I refuse to do a roadside (I can't do that shit sober, so no need to dig my own grave and put on my best Sunday suit), and I opt for a blood test rather than breathalyzer- exercising my rights, and I want plenty to go to court with in my corner- But then again, I don't drive drunk. [Beer]
Sharpienads
05-14-2013, 15:30
Where does the NTSB get the authority to even exist?
I lost all my booze in a tragic boating accident...
I lost all my booze in a tragic boating accident...
I believe in Ireland you get hanged for that... [LOL]
KevDen2005
05-14-2013, 18:18
It's already .05
buffalobo
05-14-2013, 18:47
It's not even about money. It's about control. Command and control, conditioned response. Just like Pavlovs dogs or Skinners rats.
Cradle to grave, the govt will take care of you. All you have to do is give up your freedom and personal responsibility.
Sent from my DROID Pro using Tapatalk 2
So this will be applied to bicycles as well I assume. I would much rather someone have a couple beers and pedal home rather than drive.
Where does the NTSB get the authority to even exist?
Where does the CMP get the authority to exist?
bigshane
05-14-2013, 19:13
Btw, saying "he'll, I can't do that sober" in response to a test implies/admits that you are currently drunk.
Sharpienads
05-14-2013, 19:18
Where does the CMP get the authority to exist?
I think you could make a logical argument for the CMP with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16. Although it would make more sense if you could have an M4 shipped to your door.
Bailey Guns
05-14-2013, 19:44
Where does the CMP get the authority to exist?
The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501 (c) (3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills. Links on this page will lead you to more detailed information about the CMP and its programs.
http://www.odcmp.co/images/web_images/subscribe_w.png (http://sales.odcmp.co/)
STATUTORY MISSION: The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 0701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key “functions for the corporation:
Bailey Guns
05-14-2013, 19:46
These roadsides are BS and only serve to prop up the statements and reasoning of the officer. DUI reports read like the accused is falling down drunk and failing every single test, no matter their performance.
What training do you have in DUI enforcement? How many DUI arrests have you made?
The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is a national organization dedicated to training and educating U. S. citizens in responsible uses of firearms and airguns through gun safety training, marksmanship training and competitions. The CMP is a federally chartered 501 (c) (3) corporation that places its highest priority on serving youth through gun safety and marksmanship activities that encourage personal growth and build life skills. Links on this page will lead you to more detailed information about the CMP and its programs.
http://www.odcmp.co/images/web_images/subscribe_w.png (http://sales.odcmp.co/)
STATUTORY MISSION: The federal law enacted in 1996 (Title 36 U. S. Code, 0701-40733) that created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. (CPRPFS, the formal legal name of the CMP) mandates these key “functions for the corporation:
So a law, just like the NTSB. The Air Commerce Act of 1926 created the predecessor to the NTSB, the Civil Aeronautics Board.
Bailey Guns
05-14-2013, 19:58
Hey...you asked, I answered.
Sharpienads
05-14-2013, 21:08
Hey...you asked, I answered.
I think my answer was better. [Coffee]
Unfortunately, the penalties of DUI's have become a business in themselves. All that garbage starts after, and is not related to, the arrest though.
27825
Eh.. googled it and came up with that.. You can def see situations where one or two drinks would put people over. have a drink and leave in 30 minutes? yeah maybe..
um,, basically we have to draw a line somewhere. remember our rights should extend up until they infringe some one elses. now in extremes like hard drugs, we have to make judgement calls. is that the same as dropping the BAC requirement for harsh penalties down to the point where if you sniff alcohol you go to jail??? I dont believe so.. (and yes, you are sensing some exaggerations there). Everybody has past experiences on these subjects, and it's perfectly fine to weight your opinions with those.
Say you have 2 beers, and get stopped at a check point... lose your liscense for a year.. a year... insurance rates sky rocket (if it's even possible to get insured anymore), your job is at risk if not gone already, you pay thousands of dollars etc.
Say that happens again 3 years later,, automatic jail time.... (somebody correct me if need be)
a total of 4 beers could do this to you... I know how that sounds.. but it's correct
I'm with you lots more punishment not fitting the crime all over. Speeding tickets fit this too. Go twenty over in a ultra modern, high speed car with all the active safety stuff and it cost you a couple days pay. For going fast? potential for harming others maybe. In civil law you can't sue for possible damages, so why apply it to drinking and speeding?
OneGuy67
05-14-2013, 21:49
What training do you have in DUI enforcement? How many DUI arrests have you made?
I stopped keeping track after 500 DUI arrests. I averaged 60-80 a year.
Rucker61
05-14-2013, 22:00
I stopped keeping track after 500 DUI arrests. I averaged 60-80 a year.
Not bad. How'd you stay out of jail?
cfortune
05-14-2013, 22:02
Not bad. How'd you stay out of jail?
hahahaha
KevDen2005
05-14-2013, 22:10
I stopped keeping track after 500 DUI arrests. I averaged 60-80 a year.
I'm only at a few hundred...but I prefer real police work...lol.
And I guess one could argue that this situation is about control or the fact that people are drinking, driving, and involved in accidents at some kind of astronomical rate. I believe this forum is the same one that talked about how dangerous car accidents were and the likelihood of getting killed or hurt in an accident. A very large percentage of those accidents have drugs and/or alcohol involved. I believe the argument was in response to gun control.
OneGuy67
05-14-2013, 22:39
Not bad. How'd you stay out of jail?
Ha!
KevDen2005
05-14-2013, 22:41
Ha!
I get nothing for my jab at you?! You treat me worse than the cop-bashers on here!
I looked for a sad face to add to this and was unable to locate one...this forum doesn't have the selection that my smart phone has it seems.
OneGuy67
05-14-2013, 22:42
I'm only at a few hundred...but I prefer real police work...lol.
And I guess one could argue that this situation is about control or the fact that people are drinking, driving, and involved in accidents at some kind of astronomical rate. I believe this forum is the same one that talked about how dangerous car accidents were and the likelihood of getting killed or hurt in an accident. A very large percentage of those accidents have drugs and/or alcohol involved. I believe the argument was in response to gun control.
It had a lot to do with being the LEAF grant coordinator for the agency and having overtime money to earn. Plus, patrol guys who were more than happy to pawn off their suspected DUI drivers to the DUI car!
KevDen2005
05-14-2013, 22:44
It had a lot to do with being the LEAF grant coordinator for the agency and having overtime money to earn. Plus, patrol guys who were more than happy to pawn off their suspected DUI drivers to the DUI car!
Ahhh, you're one of those guys. I don't mind DUI's. As long as I can make the DUI stop 2 hours or more before the end of my shift.
OneGuy67
05-14-2013, 22:44
I get nothing for my jab at you?! You treat me worse than the cop-bashers on here!
I looked for a sad face to add to this and was unable to locate one...this forum doesn't have the selection that my smart phone has it seems.
Ha! No Kev, it is due to the finger tapping on the tablet. The forum doesnt like my tablet.
It had a lot to do with being the LEAF grant coordinator for the agency and having overtime money to earn. Plus, patrol guys who were more than happy to pawn off their suspected DUI drivers to the DUI car!
So you're saying you got to clean up a lot of puke and piss? [LOL]
Over in NY, where citizens have no rights at all, if someone had too much to drink and decides to sleep it off in the back of their car, with the keys in their pocket rather than the ignition, that is considered DWI. Being drunk in a vehicle with keys is all you need to be convicted. Engine can be cold and you could've been sleeping for hours . . . and if you don't unlock the door to get arrested, they can bust the window and unlock it for you. I've heard of dozens of cases like that. One was even a guy sleeping in a motor home.
Over in NY, where citizens have no rights at all, if someone had too much to drink and decides to sleep it off in the back of their car, with the keys in their pocket rather than the ignition, that is considered DWI. Being drunk in a vehicle with keys is all you need to be convicted. Engine can be cold and you could've been sleeping for hours . . . and if you don't unlock the door to get arrested, they can bust the window and unlock it for you. I've heard of dozens of cases like that. One was even a guy sleeping in a motor home.
Same here. "Here" as in Colorado.
Why isn't a cognitive reactionary type test offered where you can set your own limit...
You run through these tests after having various amounts of alcohol. When you miss a problem or exercise your limit is .02 below that level so if you get pulled over and blow at your listed level or above. No license for a year 30 days jail the works. Automatically
so you have petite little blonde that can barely drive as it is because omg Harry kissed Stacy and posted it to Facebook her test level is .04 or
A 250lb muscular gentleman who went a the way to .1 safely I know who I would rather be on the road with.
Some of the people I see driving at all or while texting talking on the phone etc is 100 times worse than me having two beers at dinner.
GilpinGuy
05-15-2013, 01:29
Why isn't a cognitive reactionary type test offered where you can set your own limit...
You run through these tests after having various amounts of alcohol. When you miss a problem or exercise your limit is .02 below that level so if you get pulled over and blow at your listed level or above. No license for a year 30 days jail the works. Automatically
so you have petite little blonde that can barely drive as it is because omg Harry kissed Stacy and posted it to Facebook her test level is .04 or
A 250lb muscular gentleman who went a the way to .1 safely I know who I would rather be on the road with.
Some of the people I see driving at all or while texting talking on the phone etc is 100 times worse than me having two beers at dinner.
You kid, I get that. But there is an argument to be made about why there's a "limit" for EVERYONE.
We're not all the same, though Socialists like to to think we are. I don't have a solution for drunk driving though.
But drunk driving is definitely going to happen more often when the limit is set lower (get it?). Soooooooooo, MADD is yet another lefty self sustaining organization. Asshats. 0.03 is next, then .02, then...just sniff a beer and you're fucked! As long as the org can make $$, it'll keep pushing.
Here in Japan it is already low, pretty much one and your walking. Lots of cab rides and walking
Bleh, I have a CDL so I'm already held to a higher standard. No biggie for me.
Byte Stryke
05-15-2013, 05:43
I would honestly have no problems with this if there were actual evidence it would do something.
The turnstyle/revolving door justice system does nothing but generate revenue... often at taxpayer expense (Need more Publice defenders over here...)
There should NEVER be someone with 3 DUIs in 5 years... unless he got his 2nd and 3rd DUI in a cell block
and yes, I agree with the sentiment that "Because they are doing it" isn't a valid argument.
Bailey Guns
05-15-2013, 06:34
I made a LOT of DUI arrests and, yeah, I kinda had a twist in my knickers about people driving drunk. Maybe it was because I was hit by drunk drivers 3 times...twice head on in my car and once on the side of the road while making a DUI arrest (didn't get seriously hurt...but my gun did. The impact tore my holster/gun off my duty belt and we found it about 200' up the road. I just had a bad case of car rash on my hip and leg). I worked a ton of LEAF shifts...mostly for the extra gun money.
And for people bitching about how all DUI reports read the same or say the same things... You can thank lawyers for that. There's a very specific procedure that has to be followed in a DUI arrest and it starts with observing how the vehicle is being operated. And yes, there are certain things that have to be said to prove you followed procedure (with the evidence to back up the statement). It's no different than an officer's notes on the back of a speeding ticket though it's more complicated. Things go in a report a certain way because that's the way the courts want to see it.
Of course, all you police experts already knew that.
bigshane
05-15-2013, 07:46
NBC Nightly News from last night:
http://i.imgur.com/lTLPLlU.jpg
WTF???
ETA: Source (http://youtu.be/lko3bR9NILE)
OneGuy67
05-15-2013, 08:33
^^^^ What are you questioning with the WTF? ^^^^ The age, the gender, the amount, the time or the BrAC end result? It is about right, given my experience.
My wife and I decided to try a test a few years ago. I'm a gin drinker, she was a vodka drinker. She is 5'8", 140 lbs, I'm 6'0", 210 lbs. We both ate the same dinner before going out. We both ordered the same type of drink with the alcohol being the difference (gin and tonic; vodka and tonic). We both drank three drinks in a little over an hour. After waiting 20 minutes to get rid of the mouth alcohol, we both blew into a Portable Breath Tester (PBT). I blew a .044 BrAC and she blew a .09 BrAC. Size, gender, food consumption, do matter.
Over in NY, where citizens have no rights at all, if someone had too much to drink and decides to sleep it off in the back of their car, with the keys in their pocket rather than the ignition, that is considered DWI. Being drunk in a vehicle with keys is all you need to be convicted. Engine can be cold and you could've been sleeping for hours . . . and if you don't unlock the door to get arrested, they can bust the window and unlock it for you. I've heard of dozens of cases like that. One was even a guy sleeping in a motor home.
Like Irving said, same here in CO, which I think is about the dumbest sh*t I've heard in relation to DUI law. Trying to be responsible and you can still get busted. What do they suggest as an alternative if you can't get a ride home? Bury your keys? Toss them off to the side of the road? Give me a break... I hope that a LEO that catches someone doing this would be a nice guy.
^^^^ What are you questioning with the WTF? ^^^^ The age, the gender, the amount, the time or the BrAC end result? It is about right, given my experience.
My wife and I decided to try a test a few years ago. I'm a gin drinker, she was a vodka drinker. She is 5'8", 140 lbs, I'm 6'0", 210 lbs. We both ate the same dinner before going out. We both ordered the same type of drink with the alcohol being the difference (gin and tonic; vodka and tonic). We both drank three drinks in a little over an hour. After waiting 20 minutes to get rid of the mouth alcohol, we both blew into a Portable Breath Tester (PBT). I blew a .044 BrAC and she blew a .09 BrAC. Size, gender, food consumption, do matter.
Not to mention metabolic rate, presence of diabetes or not, BFI... on and on it goes, there are a lot of factors that can determine how your body metabolizes and absorbs alcohol leading to your BAC... That's what I get for dating a nurse in my youth who studied very hard on this subject (she was also an alcohol counselor for people who got DUIs). It really is a science.
Like Irving said, same here in CO, which I think is about the dumbest sh*t I've heard in relation to DUI law. Trying to be responsible and you can still get busted. What do they suggest as an alternative if you can't get a ride home? Bury your keys? Toss them off to the side of the road? Give me a break... I hope that a LEO that catches someone doing this would be a nice guy.
You have the CRS reference or case law for that?
What kind of education person thinks ANYONE is going to change their drinking habits because of a BAC change. You want to stop the "so called" madness, hit em in the pocket and stiffen the penalties. Caught wasted cruising in your 3000 lbs plus hunk of steel, good, one month minimum jail time, "MANDATORY" and a nice 5k fine, in addition to all the other classes and fees that go with...I'm sick and tired of the gov making new rules, while the fines and penalties are basically nonexistent, when peeps see what getting caught might cost them, you might start to see a significant culture change.
Bailey Guns
05-15-2013, 10:14
Actually, financial penalties and other associated costs for DUIs are pretty stiff. Jail time is a different story. Of course, the penalties are only heavy if you're the type to do the right thing after the DUI...go to court, counseling, treatment, lawyer fees, court costs, etc... If you the typical multi-offender that really doesn't care that stuff won't add up to much because you won't do it.
Actually, financial penalties and other associated costs for DUIs are pretty stiff. Jail time is a different story. Of course, the penalties are only heavy if you're the type to do the right thing after the DUI...go to court, counseling, treatment, lawyer fees, court costs, etc... If you the typical multi-offender that really doesn't care that stuff won't add up to much because you won't do it.
Agreed, however if I knew that extra beer would cost me my job due to prison time, you can bet I would think twice about my evening plans...Wonder what type of deal Todd Helton got?
What kind of education person thinks ANYONE is going to change their drinking habits because of a BAC change. You want to stop the "so called" madness, hit em in the pocket and stiffen the penalties. Caught wasted cruising in your 3000 lbs plus hunk of steel, good, one month minimum jail time, "MANDATORY" and a nice 5k fine, in addition to all the other classes and fees that go with...I'm sick and tired of the gov making new rules, while the fines and penalties are basically nonexistent, when peeps see what getting caught might cost them, you might start to see a significant culture change.
I'm confused... you think that DUI penalties are lenient now? Have you or anyone you know gotten a DUI lately? Let me break it down for you, little brother, DUI in 2006, probably $10,000 total- or would have been but he got hooked up on the lawyer end. Friend, DUI in 2011, has paid at least $16,000 in the 18mos since, not to mention probation, and interlocker on his car that he has to pay MONTHLY for... Total expected to climb above $18,000 before he is free and clear later this year. On average, as of 2012, a DUI in CO will end up costing $12,000 for non-injury/non-accident DUI charge. Drug charges don't cost that much.
bigshane
05-15-2013, 10:31
^^^^ What are you questioning with the WTF? ^^^^ The age, the gender, the amount, the time or the BrAC end result? It is about right, given my experience.
My wife and I decided to try a test a few years ago. I'm a gin drinker, she was a vodka drinker. She is 5'8", 140 lbs, I'm 6'0", 210 lbs. We both ate the same dinner before going out. We both ordered the same type of drink with the alcohol being the difference (gin and tonic; vodka and tonic). We both drank three drinks in a little over an hour. After waiting 20 minutes to get rid of the mouth alcohol, we both blew into a Portable Breath Tester (PBT). I blew a .044 BrAC and she blew a .09 BrAC. Size, gender, food consumption, do matter.
I question the entire premise that: "A thirty year old male weighing 180 lbs. would need to consume just over 4 beers in an hour to reach a blood alcohol level of .05"
This would be an exception, and not the norm, in my unlearned opinion.
I've never heard anything that lax. I think it's irresponsible reporting meant to skew the story and sway people to the ntsb/madd side.
"Just over 4 beers in an hour" for a 180 lb'er to make .05. seriously? I've never seen a chart, recommendation, or heard a cop say that 4 beers in an hour is a safe level back in the days of .10 being the limit, much less .05!
In your example you drank over 25% less, and weigh 30 lbs. more than the example and got too close for comfort to the line when a trip to jail and thousands of dollars are at stake.
I'm confused... you think that DUI penalties are lenient now? Have you or anyone you know gotten a DUI lately? Let me break it down for you, little brother, DUI in 2006, probably $10,000 total- or would have been but he got hooked up on the lawyer end. Friend, DUI in 2011, has paid at least $16,000 in the 18mos since, not to mention probation, and interlocker on his car that he has to pay MONTHLY for... Total expected to climb above $18,000 before he is free and clear later this year. On average, as of 2012, a DUI in CO will end up costing $12,000 for non-injury/non-accident DUI charge. Drug charges don't cost that much.
Oh I know they CAN be stiff................A lawer will NOT be able to get you out of the mandatory Jail time with my idea. Think good old Todd will pay $18k???????????????????????????
Bailey Guns
05-15-2013, 10:39
Think good old Todd will pay $18k???????????????????????????
Yeah, I do. Or close to it. With his lawyers and status? He'll pay that much.
Yeah, I do. Or close to it. With his lawyers and status? He'll pay that much.
Forgot about the lawers cut..[Coffee] All I'm syaing here is that the idea of jail time might make more of a difference, lowering the BAC wont do anything.
OneGuy67
05-15-2013, 11:06
I question the entire premise that: "A thirty year old male weighing 180 lbs. would need to consume just over 4 beers in an hour to reach a blood alcohol level of .05"
This would be an exception, and not the norm, in my unlearned opinion.
I've never heard anything that lax. I think it's irresponsible reporting meant to skew the story and sway people to the ntsb/madd side.
"Just over 4 beers in an hour" for a 180 lb'er to make .05. seriously? I've never seen a chart, recommendation, or heard a cop say that 4 beers in an hour is a safe level back in the days of .10 being the limit, much less .05!
In your example you drank over 25% less, and weigh 30 lbs. more than the example and got too close for comfort to the line when a trip to jail and thousands of dollars are at stake.
I'm confused as to what you are trying to convey here. Do you believe that the example is incorrect and the norm would be a higher BrAC or a lower BrAC? How is the reporting swaying people towards the NTSB or MADD? While I would agree that if an ignorant person saw this example and said to themselves they could now drink 4 beers in an hour because the TV said so, then they deserve what comes to them.
There isn't a standard limit set per poundage or age. It is as Ronin has stated that metabolizing is a consistent standard, as everyone metabolizes in a consistent manner, roughly a .015 per hour, but the amount available to metabolize does change based upon several factors. Food consumption is a big one as it closes the pyloric valve, which is the muscle between your stomach and your small intestine. This allows for a slower absorption of alcohol, verses having no food in the stomach and the alcohol flowing directly into the small intestine and being quickly absorbed into the blood stream. One reason why bars are required to serve/have food available as part of their licensing. Gender is another. Females have more water and fat in their bodies, which affects their absorption rate. I've forgotten a lot about the science of it since I no longer teach on the subject.
Bailey Guns
05-15-2013, 11:15
Forgot about the lawers cut..[Coffee] All I'm syaing here is that the idea of jail time might make more of a difference, lowering the BAC wont do anything.
Can't forget about the lawyers!
And I look at this in a similar way I look at the new magazine law. It will deter some people...those that would've already been deterred by the current levels. People like you and me who probably obey the law and fear the penalties for getting a DUI. Just like we're the only type of people that will be affected by the mag law.
The hard-core types with several DUIs won't give a rat's ass about it dropping. They're gonna drink and drive anyway.
Actually, the point is there are some people who DO drink, in fact get drunk, but don't DRIVE drunk...that is called "personal responsibility". From the "liberal" perspective that says you can't be too tough on people who kill others while driving drunk, we "have" to do something, so they enact laws. If MORE people were responsible, then letting a few drunks rot in jail, or the death penalty for willful and wanton disregard for human life in the case of a drunk killing someone, we would not have to even be having this discussion.
Sorry, but some of you are probably young and foolish and still in, or at least still clinging to the "Superman" cloak of youthful invincibility. Those of us with a few more years WERE there at some point and you might consider that the hindsight and such gained wisdom has some merit. When a drunk takes your kid, parent, friend from you due to their totally shelfish action of driving drunk, it might alter your perspective as well.
So say we get rid of the legal limits, BUT, you kill someone while driving drunk, get the electric chair. You damage property or put someone in the hospital, pay them back and go to jail...no more license insurance for what 10 years...Would that work better?
The "limits" have no influence on the selfish drunk, nor the responsible drinker. It is the middle pack that the limits seek to control because they have no self control, and we see where that got Ted Kennedy...Do we put their parents in prison for raising a irresponsible selfish offspring?
Chad4000
05-15-2013, 11:47
what you guys are all talking about is just the penatly for NOTHING happening.. DUI check point = jail time??????
the idea would be, make the penalties VERY stiff if something actually happened. even on your first DUI, if you actually crash a car, 30 day and all these horrible fines. if you hurt somebody, jail time etc...
bigshane
05-15-2013, 12:20
I'm confused as to what you are trying to convey here. Do you believe that the example is incorrect and the norm would be a higher BrAC or a lower BrAC? How is the reporting swaying people towards the NTSB or MADD? While I would agree that if an ignorant person saw this example and said to themselves they could now drink 4 beers in an hour because the TV said so, then they deserve what comes to them.
The example is irresponsible and should say 2 beers like every other source has for decades.
muddywings
05-15-2013, 14:12
I'll agree with some and disagree with others. I don't have a problem with them lowering the limit but I don't think the lower limit will cause people to stop drinking and driving. IMHO-first offense....hey people make mistakes, pretty big fine to teach you a lesson. Second offense, ok, you are an idiot, jail time and big fine. Third offense, you can't learn and Darwin hasn't helped so since you will probably kill someone sooner or later-life in prison or get the needle.
I've said this before, we have evolved to a point as a species that we have caused evolution to become obsolete and therefore we allow the weak and stupid to continue to breed vs die off.
STOP THE BREEDING!!!
In the words of my 1SG:
"If you're gonna drink, don't drive. If you're gonna drive, don't drink." Simple enough... /thread. [Gas1]
In the words of my 1SG:
"If you're gonna drink, don't drive. If you're gonna drive, don't drink." Simple enough... /thread. [Gas1]
^This. Its why I rarely drink anymore because it's too much of a pain in the ass. I don't like sleeping on floors or couches anymore so unless I have a spare bed to crash in or a DD home, I'm staying sober.
Bailey Guns
05-15-2013, 15:02
In the words of my 1SG:
"If you're gonna drink, don't drive. If you're gonna drive, don't drink." Simple enough... /thread. [Gas1]
I think that advice is probably good advice for young men and women in the Army with little real life experience...the type of person you would expect a 1SG to be talking to. But for a responsible adult I really don't see a problem with having a beer with dinner over an hour or hour and a half and then driving home.
I think that advice is probably good advice for young men and women in the Army with little real life experience...the type of person you would expect a 1SG to be talking to. But for a responsible adult I really don't see a problem with having a beer with dinner over an hour or hour and a half and then driving home.
I agree with you there.
CroiDhubh
05-15-2013, 16:39
As I've gotten heavier and fatter *LOL* my tolerance has gone DOWN. I used to drink everyone under the table, but I don't drink very often any more. Remember, alcohol goes to where water used to be, which is why someone who is heavier with MUSCLE is better off than someone heavier with FAT. Women generally have a lower tolerance because they have a natural higher body fat than men. However, a woman who works out every day and has 14% body fat is going to be better off than a man who sits on his ass all day and has a body fat of 25%, but weight the same.
Then you also have to take into the tolerance from drinking all the time or more often than someone else, too... Just too many factors, which is why there is a standard.
These roadsides are BS and only serve to prop up the statements and reasoning of the officer. DUI reports read like the accused is falling down drunk and failing every single test, no matter their performance.
Uh...no... There is way more empirical and scientific evidence supporting the tests than just how one would interpret the report. The reason they can be interpreted that way is because of how lawyers pick things apart. If it isn't worded right, forget it.
Now, someone like me, when ask, "Is there any mental or health reasons as to why you would not be able to perform these maneuvers as I will instruct them?" I get to say, "Yes." The reason being is because I have a natural standing nystagmus which rates a 3 on the test. People loved when we did SFST in the academy and in training because they could see it when we didn't have people drinking to try them out on. Now, the other maneuvers I can do just fine.
muddywings
05-15-2013, 16:52
http://www.rupissed.com/blood_alcohol_limits.html
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.