New York Man Arrested under the SAFE Act

[Squeeze]

Absolutely appalling... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/13/n-y-man-arrested-for-having-two-extra-bullets-violating-states-7-bullet-cap/

[beast556]

I have a feeling we are going to see a lot more of this shit. I love how the pict has a Glock with 762x39mm casings around it to make it look more evil.

[Bailey Guns]

What's appalling? The fact the guy was stupid enough to be driving around with an equipment violation, on a suspended license, with more than the legal limit of ammo in his gun? Or the fact a person is limited to 7 rounds in NY?

Sorry...I feel for the citizens of NY with their stupid laws. But that doesn't mean he should exercise his own brand of stupidity without consequences. I know the laws for carrying a gun in this state and I abide by them because there are consequences for not abiding by them.

I may change my mind in the future.

[Squeeze]

What's appalling? The fact the guy was stupid enough to be driving around with an equipment violation, on a suspended license, with more than the legal limit of ammo in his gun? Or the fact a person is limited to 7 rounds in NY?

Sorry...I feel for the citizens of NY with their stupid laws. But that doesn't mean he should exercise his own brand of stupidity without consequences. I know the laws for carrying a gun in this state and I abide by them because there are consequences for not abiding by them.

I may change my mind in the future.

I guess to clarify, I am appalled that New York LE are actually wasting their time enforcing the 7-round magazine limit. I agree, cite him for the other nonsense - he earned that fair & square. The problem with the 7-round limit in magazines is that most of our modern semi-automatic handguns have a standard capacity exceeding 7. That being the case, last I checked the manufacturers aren't looking to produce special 7-round magazines for NY residents. By all means, if there are limiters being made for ALL the magazines out there which hold more than 7 rounds, post the link. Laws here in Colorado regarding the same issue (HB1224) are stupid and fortunately majority of LE agree. Some people here have said that HB1224 is the straw that broke the camel's back and are now moving to a free state. For me, if it were to get to the point where they pass a law like the one in NY, that is my straw. Everyone has to decide for their own which battles are worthy of a fight.

[Ronin13]

Not worth it... NY is basically an entirely different country when it comes to Law Enforcement. They make dirty cops in CO (which are rare) look like freaking Serpico. NY sucks, and they voted for that.

[Hound]

My big question is "Was he driving through or a NY resident" the answer is obvious after the answer is given. That being said, wait till one of us get pulled over in Denver, driving to the mountains or something with a PMAG. I wonder if any of us will remember this thread or post?

[Bailey Guns]

I guess to clarify, I am appalled that New York LE are actually wasting their time enforcing the 7-round magazine limit. I agree, cite him for the other nonsense - he earned that fair & square. The problem with the 7-round limit in magazines is that most of our modern semi-automatic handguns have a standard capacity exceeding 7. That being the case, last I checked the manufacturers aren't looking to produce special 7-round magazines for NY residents. By all means, if there are limiters being made for ALL the magazines out there which hold more than 7 rounds, post the link. Laws here in Colorado regarding the same issue (HB1224) are stupid and fortunately majority of LE agree. Some people here have said that HB1224 is the straw that broke the camel's back and are now moving to a free state. For me, if it were to get to the point where they pass a law like the one in NY, that is my straw. Everyone has to decide for their own which battles are worthy of a fight.

It's a stupid law. Definitely. No argument over that. He also brought the entire thing upon himself and, stupid law or not, he's now paying the price.

[Bailey Guns]

My big question is "Was he driving through or a NY resident" the answer is obvious after the answer is given. That being said, wait till one of us get pulled over in Denver, driving to the mountains or something with a PMAG. I wonder if any of us will remember this thread or post?

Well, if you're dumb enough to have a PMag dated post July 1, 2013 and you get popped for it then you deserve it. If it's dated pre July 1, there shouldn't be an issue.

And, no, I'm not supportive of the mag law.

[spqrzilla]

I am of the opinion that it is a violation of Due Process to criminalize an inability to count.

[Ridge]

I have a feeling we are going to see a lot more of this shit. I love how the pict has a Glock with 762x39mm casings around it to make it look more evil.

I don't think it's even a real gun. Notice the lack of a guide rod, and a hinge on the polymer frame forward of the trigger guard.

[Bailey Guns]

I am of the opinion that it is a violation of Due Process to criminalize an inability to count.

Oh, right. So he's the victim of a failed society in this whole thing. That sounds like a good defense!

[Rucker61]

Oh, right. So he's the victim of a failed society in this whole thing.

Let's arrest them instead!

[Hound]

Well, if you're dumb enough to have a PMag dated post July 1, 2013 and you get popped for it then you deserve it. If it's dated pre July 1, there shouldn't be an issue.

And, no, I'm not supportive of the mag law.

Never thought you supported the law but my point was going towards the grandfather clause which makes it completely uneforceable. We all have PMAGs but an over zealous Denver cop can cause trouble even if legal (not all mags have stamps). This also goes towards my original question of "If he was just passing through". If he was a resident he screwed up, if not... Over zealous cop.

[Chad4000]

Oh, right. So he's the victim of a failed society in this whole thing. That sounds like a good defense!

nobody said he was a victim per se... but again (going back to the BAC thread), the penalties are pretty stiff. why not warnings in situations like this? for 6 months or something, until the gov has made attempts to clarify the new laws, they dont go straight to the point where they arrest you. impound your car, charge you with weapons violations (misdemenor or not) etc...

they have billboards devoted to making sure people still understand that buckling up is the law. and thats been the law for what? 10 years plus?

in this case, it's been like 15 minutes since the law passed, and boom arrests... think he left with his gun after bonding out?

(I'll give you this one is muddy because the gun would have been arrested either way because his DL was suspended)

[Chad4000]

I don't think it's even a real gun. Notice the lack of a guide rod, and a hinge on the polymer frame forward of the trigger guard.

yeah wow... what would that mean it is? airsoft?

[Great-Kazoo]

nobody said he was a victim per se... but again (going back to the BAC thread), the penalties are pretty stiff. why not warnings in situations like this? for 6 months or something, until the gov has made attempts to clarify the new laws, they dont go straight to the point where they arrest you. impound your car, charge you with weapons violations (misdemenor or not) etc...

they have billboards devoted to making sure people still understand that buckling up is the law. and thats been the law for what? 10 years plus?

in this case, it's been like 15 minutes since the law passed, and boom arrests... think he left with his gun after bonding out?

(I'll give you this one is muddy because the gun would have been arrested either way because his DL was suspended)


Because Warnings, are not arrest. Arrest make headlines, Shows NYS is serious about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. and anyone else they can grab.

[Rucker61]

Is there a reason you specifically singled out Denver cops? Are they somehow more apt to be overzealous when it comes to enforcing a state-level mag capacity limit that is to be enforced by every cop in every jurisdiction? (Ironic that Denver's own municipal mag capacity ordinance is actually more lenient than the pending state law...)

Denver is the largest municipality iwth the largest police force, and LEOs there already have experience enforcing a capacity ordinance. Since the new law as written is unenforceable, and the aforementioned Denver ordinance will continue to be enforced against possessors of 30 round PMAGs, it's a pretty logical step to pick Denver LEOs for the example. None of the Fort Collins cops I know have any intention of enforcing it, nor will the Larimer County Sheriffs.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't think the entire law is unenforceable. If you're in possession of a magazine over 15 rounds and it's stamped with a "born on" date that's later than June 30, 2013, it seems pretty clear you would be in violation. And I'm curious as well why you singled out DPD? The law will cover the entire state...not just Denver. Having said that, the entire law is a waste of time and won't do anything to reduce crime as promised by democrats.

Maybe I just missed them but I don't recall hearing of any stories of overzealous DPD officers going out of their way to enforce the Denver ordinance. Or I don't recall any instances of such.

And BTW...my statement about the guy being a victim was sarcasm.

[KestrelBike]

What's appalling? The fact the guy was stupid enough to be driving around with an equipment violation, on a suspended license, with more than the legal limit of ammo in his gun? Or the fact a person is limited to 7 rounds in NY?

Sorry...I feel for the citizens of NY with their stupid laws. But that doesn't mean he should exercise his own brand of stupidity without consequences. I know the laws for carrying a gun in this state and I abide by them because there are consequences for not abiding by them.

I may change my mind in the future.

So basically it's an add-on charge? As in if he had a Big Gulp in the center console they would have charged him for a high cap soda.

[Byte Stryke]

Just remember this guys, Unfortunately other states are looking at Colorado in the same "They are liberal bat-poop crazy" light

So when you load up to go to the range and get pulled over "I saw you weaving a little back there.", "Do you mind stepping out of the car for a field sobriety test?", " I am just going to put these on you and seat you in the back of my patrol car for our mutual safety."


Next thing you know, it will be YOUR mugshot on the blaze with folks on the intarwebz doing the armchair quarterbacking.

[Great-Kazoo]

Not worth it... NY is basically an entirely different country when it comes to Law Enforcement. They make dirty cops in CO (which are rare) look like freaking Serpico. NY sucks, and they voted for that.

MMMMMMM i met Frank, and knew his family. not exactly a bouquet of roses. When you speak of "dirty cops" also keep in mind there is a mentality within a lot of Large / high density urban [ Liberal] areas where the LE's hands are tied. HIGHER UPS are politicians more so then street cops, who worked their way up the COC.
NYCPD has more "gun shy" beat cops then you could imagine. The PC higher ups were "recommended" by Politicians who have their own agenda and with their "Chess Pieces in place" are sometimes able to govern by fiat
What you see / read and hear regarding some MASSIVE POLICE ABUSE IS nothing more than the liberal ANTI-LE agenda. I know people who were involved with a few MEDIA WORTHY events and what was depicted vs what happened were very different.

NOT SAYING I AM 100% A LE SUPPORTER . Like any other profession they have good and bad. Or as i see it, those who have taken the letter of the law and given it their own interpretation.
The bad always get more press than the good.

STATE TROOPER SEXUALLY ASSAULTS SUSPECT

LOCAL PD donates building materials for disabled veteran who lost everything in house fire.

Which one received more Media play AND discussion on internet forums?

[ChunkyMonkey]

yeah wow... what would that mean it is? airsoft?

Thats not the actual gun. It's the editor's 'illustration' - even had credit to shutterstock

[Hound]

I am not against cops. I have several in my family who are just fine back in Missouri. A cop is somebody that joins the force to "Protect and Serve" and that applies common sense to a situation. They de-escalate when they can and try to find the 'right' answer for the greater community. I am against Pigs. These are High School bullies with a gun and every good size PD has at least one. Growing up I saw a lot of both because of how Missouri is with small PDs all over the place. I support cops, they have a tough job that does not get enough understanding. Pigs can rot in hell twice because of the lose of trust they bring to an orderly society and cops. They are the ones that videos like this leave us all questioning their motives and fearing this will become "normal".

[Ronin13]

Is there a reason you specifically singled out Denver cops? Are they somehow more apt to be overzealous when it comes to enforcing a state-level mag capacity limit that is to be enforced by every cop in every jurisdiction? (Ironic that Denver's own municipal mag capacity ordinance is actually more lenient than the pending state law...)
Reputation... The public, by and large (from my personal experience), is that a lot/large percentage of DPD are a bit too aggressive and overzealous in enforcing BS and/or unconstitutional laws. In my experience, I've never dealt with any "bad" DPD officers, but they do act a little more 'puffed out chest' than say the Lakewood cops I've had dealings with- but pale in comparison to many of the rookie JCSO deputies that get posted in Evergreen (I hope Bailey catches my meaning). [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

I am not against cops. I have several in my family who are just fine back in Missouri. A cop is somebody that joins the force to "Protect and Serve" and that applies common sense to a situation. They de-escalate when they can and try to find the 'right' answer for the greater community. I am against Pigs. These are High School bullies with a gun and every good size PD has at least one. Growing up I saw a lot of both because of how Missouri is with small PDs all over the place. I support cops, they have a tough job that does not get enough understanding. Pigs can rot in hell twice because of the lose of trust they bring to an orderly society and cops. They are the ones that videos like this leave us all questioning their motives and fearing this will become "normal".

Can you say anything without the emotional hyperbole? "Pigs"? Really?

And, no, this video (which is not even what this thread is about) did not "leave us all questioning their motives" and in fear of anything. The reasonable people understand a valid conclusion can't be reached from watching a <2 Min video. The only thing you know about police work is nothing.

[Hound]

Can you say anything without the emotional hyperbole? "Pigs"? Really?

And, no, this video (which is not even what this thread is about) did not "leave us all questioning their motives" and in fear of anything. The reasonable people understand a valid conclusion can't be reached from watching a <2 Min video. The only thing you know about police work is nothing.

Yup, unbias reply there. "Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!"

Cops can do no wrong, I used to be one....

[Bailey Guns]

So you were a cop...not a pig?

[Hound]

So you were a cop...not a pig?

That was sarcasm there...

[Rucker61]

In the decade I've been on the job, I haven't charged a single person under Denver's assault weapon ordinance (of which the mag capacity limit is included). Nor can I recall a single time that I've seen someone else charge it. And that is not due to some ultra-righteous opposition to gun control. It is simply due to the fact that, in every instance where the Denver ordinance could have been charged, there were also state/federal offenses involved, and the cases are charged at the higher level.

How do you think this behavior will hold after July 1?

[Bailey Guns]

That was sarcasm there...

No kidding? I guess it got lost in the name calling/other attempts at belittling that you frequently resort to in a discussion. That's typically SOP for someone who doesn't have a valid argument to present.

[Hound]

No kidding? I guess it got lost in the name calling/other attempts at belittling that you frequently resort to in a discussion. That's typically SOP for someone who doesn't have a valid argument to present.

Bailey, you are who you are wether you can see a valid argument or not.

[Bailey Guns]

OK. You win.

[Clint45]

I guess to clarify, I am appalled that New York LE are actually wasting their time enforcing the 7-round magazine limit.

In NYC the cops are very busy, but most of New York is rural and the cops drive around all day with nothing to do but fuck with people. They will not get raises or promotions unless they make a weekly quota of "tickets and collars" . . . but they aren't getting any calls on the radio . . . what to do?

Anyone driving a car that: has bumperstickers promoting certain bands or promoting Freedom or critical of the government, is filled with teenagers after dark, is driven by a male with long hair, is driven by a black or brown person, or is driving on a back road after 10PM will be pulled over "on suspicion of being suspicious" and after a few moments of conversation and determining that there is a valid license/registration.inspection/insurance and no warrants or wants, the officer will either let them go with a warning, let them go with a bogus ticket for a minor infraction like failure to signal, or will ask to search the vehicle and all passengers for contraband . . . an intrusive search similar to what Customs would do that takes over an hour. Want to squawk about your "rights" to a NY State Trooper? Expect to be proned out at gunpoint and strip searched, then go to jail for "interfering with police" or "resisting arrest" or some such. I know DPD have had their problems, but the Libtards here in Denver have obviously never met real bad cops before. Back in the 80s before LE dashcams and cellphones that could upload digital movies to youtube, NYSP literally did whatever they wanted . . . with the full support of the courts . . . and the small town cops and county deputies were often worse. They would walk into people's homes without a warrant if the door is unlocked and no-one answers the door, kick in people's doors because they "smell weed" because someone is burning incense, set up complex obstacle courses at their random DWI checkpoints and ask drivers to recite the alphabet backwards (impossible to pass this test, because if you succeed you've clearly practiced = guilt), and will set up roadblocks on highways to give every single driver a speeding ticket until they make their quota. The detectives are even worse, because they will actually fabricate evidence to get convictions. Here in Denver, as long as you aren't too lippy or try to run the cops really aren't that bad at all. They might be pissed off all the time and not so great with the public relations skills, but they aren't going around kicking in random doors and stripsearching motorists over a burned out taillight bulb like NY cops.

[Ronin13]

Our reputation is established by three things: The media, "a guy I know who told me", and personal experience.
...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not basing my opinion of your department based on anything other than MY dealings with Denver Officers, that's it. I was simply pointing out that the public perception of DPD is a less than positive one (by comparison to JCSO, LCSO, CCCSO, Littleton PD, APD, etc), I was only stating that my opinion is derived from my experiences and some of the cops I've dealt with act like "billy badass"- but again, not all, and I don't judge the entire agency, I judge that one individual based on his actions. But of course, I'm not everyone, some people have one bad experience with a cop (break the law and they are all bad experiences usually, but that's at the fault of the law breaker) and they blanket all cops as dicks or what have you. I always say, don't break the law and you usually don't have to deal with cops. But even if they're perfectly in the right, maybe the LEO was having a bad day, they're only human, and the experience is less than ideal, some folks will judge all future endeavors and experiences with LE in a negative light based on that ONE experience. YMMV.

[Hound]

Our reputation is established by three things: The media, "a guy I know who told me", and personal experience. ....etc.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I have also had mostly positive interactions with cops. And I agree with Ronin that they are human. I think that one thing I would add is that the laws Denver emposses are seen by many as overboard and have been for awhile. The gun laws are the easiest to bring up in this forum. That is where my original post on this thread came from. Before the cop has said a word, many gun owners are leary when dealing with a DPD cop because of this. If you add to that, "them having a bad day" and trouble is a real concern. I salute the DPD for a tough job, and thank you for doing it. I also think there is a basis for concern about police because, as a citizen, we are never quite sure what we are going to get when dealing with any cop anywhere. There are many threads on this forum pointing out police over stepping.

BTW: When I wrote this, I had not read your last post. I was reading through the thread, came on your post and responded because I liked what you said. There is another thread on here with police busting into a home and tazzing a guy. This disturbs me greatly. I think I may be bouncing between the two threads too much. I hope you are not too disapointed ;)

[Ronin13]

Hound, I'm genuinely disappointed by your statements in this thread. From what I've seen of your previous posts, you seem like a reasonable and down-to-Earth guy. Suddenly you're caving in to the anti-police hyperbole and are sounding like some of the people that have so much engrained hatred and are constantly seething at any opportunity to bash the cops.

We get it, bad cops are bad. Trust me, WE KNOW. You're not telling us anything new. But actually labeling a cop as "bad" requires a lot more than a youtube video and ignorant analysis from bitter mouthbreathers. And using the word "pig" really puts you in the same class as some uppity liberal who screams "racist" anytime they are losing an argument. Don't stoop to that level, it is unseemly.
Well if I have an encounter with a bad DPD officer I blame the chief... wasn't he appointed by Dickenpooper? [shithitsfan]

[Chad4000]

Thats not the actual gun. It's the editor's 'illustration' - even had credit to shutterstock

ok cool... looks like a picture to me, so I was thinking they took a picture of an airsoft gun with 762 casings around it lol...