My wet blanket for Memorial Day.

[Zundfolge]

So I was talking to one of my neighbors who noticed that I didn't have my flag flying this Memorial Day ... I changed the subject.


Back in the late 80s my hippie/commie uncle was an aid to some leftard schmuck congressman from Oklahoma. As a congressman's aid he was in charge of sending gifts and other wastes of the taxpayers dollars to donors and leftard muckity-mucks. One of the ways our government wastes money is they buy very well made and expensive Valley Forge flags (http://www.valleyforgeflag.com/Prod-18-1-1981-241/.htm) by the train car load, fly them over the capital for a single day and box the flags up with certificates of authenticity to hand out like candy.

Many years ago my uncle gave me one of these flags as a birthday gift. I've flow it proudly for years and frankly it was much nicer than the ones you buy at Walmart (they aren't printed, they're sewn together strips of red and white heavy cotton with a piece of blue with embroidered stars on it. Very nice quality).

Well, on election night 2012, when it was clear that America had good and truly committed suicide I burned that flag in my fire pit and buried the ashes in the corner of the yard. I vowed not to fly the flag of the United States of America again until either the people turn this country around and get it back under the constitution or after the coming war if we are able to establish a new Republic under the Constitution of the old one I'll fly THAT flag.

So anyway, celebrating Memorial Day (or July 4th for that matter) has become a bitter pill for me. Let me say from the get-go that I absolutely believe that the sacrifices of generations of Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen deserve to be honored and remembered ... the problem is that I no longer see those sacrifices as being "to preserve the liberty and way of life we enjoy here in America" because I don't believe they have (they may have been intended to, but that's just not how things have turned out).

The simple fact is that even if we're able to get the current crop of corrupt politicians out of power and replace them with lovers of the Constitution, history and traditions of the United States of America as it was originally designed, I don't see how we can dismantle the Utopian Statist Leviathan that the federal (and for the most part state) governments have become (in large part because the American people have become as corrupt as any Marxist community organizer turned Chicago thug politician turned President).

The last few years on Memorial Day I think I can understand how the German or Italian or Japanese people must feel when remembering their war dead from WWII ... their fellow citizens fought and died and LOST.

Anyway, I offer my prayers of thanks and admiration for those that have selflessly given their lives for the sake of a corrupt people ... and I offer prayers of contrition to the All Mighty on behalf of a nation who have squandered the gift of liberty he bestowed upon us over two centuries ago (and a tiny prayer of thanks for the fine folk of Loretto, KY for helping me get to sleep tonite after all that).

[Great-Kazoo]

So you burned The Flag in Protest, or did i read that wrong?

I had a fight with my wife a few years back. I didn't slap the shit out of our daughter.



Note to self, block Zun who folded

[Guylee]

So you burned The Flag in Protest, or did i read that wrong?

I had a fight with my wife a few years back. I didn't slap the shit out of our daughter.

Well put. I hope you at least burned it correctly.

Note to self, block Zun who folded


Well put. I hope you at least burned it correctly.

[Aloha_Shooter]

He did say he burned it in his fire pit and I assume he did it reverentially so he did it right. I personally would have put the flag in the closet until the country was restored but I can understand why he did what he did.

28655

[ray1970]

I can understand why he did what he did.

Yep. I always felt burning the flag was disrespectful to our great nation but lately I'm not so sure it deserves the respect it once did.

[ray1970]

The nation, that is. Not the flag.

[ZERO THEORY]

Why not fly it at half mast or upside down if you wanted to make a statement with it? I think that evokes a much stronger message than privately burning it. Burning it implies you want the infrastructure and ideals it represents to be toppled.

[brokenscout]

I understand, mine are all packed up:( can't bring myself to burn them, but I inderstand

[Great-Kazoo]

What's that saying, i'm sure some of us remember?


“My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

[Zundfolge]

So you burned The Flag in Protest, or did i read that wrong?
Yeah, you read that wrong.

I didn't burn the flag in protest, I properly disposed of a flag no longer fit to fly.


I had a fight with my wife a few years back. I didn't slap the shit out of our daughter.
I don't think your analogy fits. A more apt one would be that you had a fight with your wife because she started screwing other people and joined a death cult so you hid your daughter from her for her own protection.


Burning it implies you want the infrastructure and ideals it represents to be toppled.
I want the infrastructure and ideals it has COME to represent to be toppled. Those ideals and infrastructure have killed off the ideas and infrastructure that it was built upon.

[DD977GM2]

I think you missed the entire purpose of Memorial Day and even 4th of July. YMMV


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4dy7mmu2Ro

[DD977GM2]

There is still good in this country, it is a far cry better then 99% of the rest of the world.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yeah, you read that wrong.

I didn't burn the flag in protest, I properly disposed of a flag no longer fit to fly.


I don't think your analogy fits. A more apt one would be that you had a fight with your wife because she started screwing other people and joined a death cult so you hid your daughter from her for her own protection.

Oh it fits. You're disappointed with a relative and the direction OUR Country has taken, understandably. SO your option to "dispose" of the Flag your relative gave you was in your mind the Only Option to show your disgust. Nope the analogy fits.
I'm pisssed at the wife so i take out my frustration on something my wife gave us, our child. Yep, still fits.

Perhaps your inability to come to terms with issues have are the problem.

IF you think you have the market cornered on Dislike / disgust / anger where Our Country is heading great "Dispose" of all the flags you want. Myself and others (hopefully) act by getting involved with potential candidates for office. Talk to those who don't or unwilling to have a grasp of reality.

In the late 60's i as many others did, advocated the removal of the .gov as it stood. NEVER ONCE DID I, "DISPOSE" OF AN AMERICAN FLAG. NEVER

A retired cop mistook my brother for a bad guy and took his life. 1 year later...............................Still no lashing out at LE's because of the actions of one.

Now continue to justify you "disposal" Fortunately that is your / our right, even under this administration.

[Great-Kazoo]

There is still good in this country, it is a far cry better then 99% of the rest of the world.

SHH lets keep that a secret. Any middle eastern and some asian country's his admission on any public forum would have serious repercussions. For him.

[Great-Kazoo]

The first sentence of your OP says it all.

So I was talking to one of my neighbors who noticed that I didn't have my flag flying this Memorial Day ... I changed the subject.

You inform the electronic world of your actions yet didn't have the spine to tell your neighbor what you did???[facepalm]

A TRUE PATRIOT Stands his grounds no matter the consequences. Looks like your line in the sand is as flexible as our CIC's.

But dispose away, and keep changing the subject.

[Zundfolge]

What's that saying, i'm sure some of us remember?


“My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

Yes, and Gen. Schurz got to say that AFTER being victorious in a civil war. A civil where the other side was a minority that simply wanted to leave, not stay and shove Marxism down our throats.

I'm not saying American can't be great again, but I just don't see it happening without a lot of unpleasantness and that unpleasantness will make the likelihood of it being "set right" even less.

Maybe I've been reading too much Ann Barnhardt lately, but in recent years I've come to see that the real problem with America isn't the corruption of its institutions, that is merely a symptom of the deeper corruption of its people. Many of us here have shielded ourselves from the truly reprehensible people that Americans have become, one way we do that is to shroud ourselves in the traditions and patriotism of our forefathers. No group of Americans does this more than those that have served in the armed forces. And it is those, arguably our best and brightest, that have suffered and sacrificed for a nation of people that simply do not deserve their sacrifice.

I ain't done fighting, but I've resigned myself to the fact that what I fight for may very well end up being a new Republic ... hopefully located roughly where the old one was.


America is an idea, not a nation. I still believe in the superiority of that idea, I just think most Americans are more concerned about getting their check (or more to the point, making sure rich white capitalists don't get theirs) and who's going to win American Idol or the Superbowl. More interested in Caeser's panem et circenses.


Anyway, most days I'm able to shove all this thinking aside and get on with the daily business of life ... but Memorial Day is for me a reminder of what we've lost.



The first sentence of your OP says it all.

So I was talking to one of my neighbors who noticed that I didn't have my flag flying this Memorial Day ... I changed the subject.

You inform the electronic world of your actions yet didn't have the spine to tell your neighbor what you did???http://www.ar-15.co/images/smilies/325991.gif

A TRUE PATRIOT Stands his grounds no matter the consequences. Looks like your line in the sand is as flexible as our CIC's.

But dispose away, and keep changing the subject.

I can see your point, but a polite neighbor doesn't lay a heavy trip on someone just making polite conversation.

But hey, I guess I'm not as pious as you Jim ... weren't you blocking me anyway?

[Birddog1911]

snip...the problem is that I no longer see those sacrifices as being "to preserve the liberty and way of life we enjoy here in America" because I don't believe they have (they may have been intended to, but that's just not how things have turned out).

snip...

I can't help but take exception to this. Who are you to say what they sacrificed their lives for?

[tmleadr03]

what he said is exactly what melvin said to me before he was banned. basically "our sacrifice meant nothing, we just thought it did" WTF?

This is not a black and white topic. We all joined for our own reasons. I wanted to serve this country, that's why I went and stood on the yellow foot prints. My service was to keep this country safe. To protect our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our still being in Afghanistan is protecting our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our attack on Iraq protected our way of life.


10 years later and what have we won for our freedoms over there? Our men are dying over there. Why? It for damn sure doesn't make us any safer.

But that is clearly not an issue with the men and women in the military, but with the political machine who controls them.

[Great-Kazoo]

I can see your point, but a polite neighbor doesn't lay a heavy trip on someone just making polite conversation.

But hey, I guess I'm not as pious as you Jim ... weren't you blocking me anyway?


PIOUS?? No son i have convictions and beliefs. Those who know me(not from posting) but actually met , friends, family and NEIGHBORS . They all know where i stand, my OPINION and my BELIEFS.
Unlike you, i have the back bone to tell my neighbor why i did what i did. Not CHANGE THE SUBJECT. THAT lacks conviction.


This is not a black and white topic. We all joined for our own reasons. I wanted to serve this country, that's why I went and stood on the yellow foot prints. My service was to keep this country safe. To protect our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our still being in Afghanistan is protecting our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our attack on Iraq protected our way of life.


10 years later and what have we won for our freedoms over there? Our men are dying over there. Why? It for damn sure doesn't make us any safer.

But that is clearly not an issue with the men and women in the military, but with the political machine who controls them.

ABSOLUTELY I joined even though i disagreed with the .gov policy's . It was either join or be drafted.

Iraq & Afghanistan?? It's lost it's focus and IMHO. We should have regime changed Saudi Arabia. Those were the ones who masterminded the 9/11 attacks.
HOWEVER those are all topics for other discussions.

[Byte Stryke]

This is not a black and white topic. We all joined for our own reasons. I wanted to serve this country, that's why I went and stood on the yellow foot prints. My service was to keep this country safe. To protect our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our still being in Afghanistan is protecting our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our attack on Iraq protected our way of life.


10 years later and what have we won for our freedoms over there? Our men are dying over there. Why? It for damn sure doesn't make us any safer.

But that is clearly not an issue with the men and women in the military, but with the political machine who controls them.

agree

and while I do not (personally) agree with Zund's decision to burn the flag... I'll fight ya for it.

[cofi]

i think theres much better ways to channel your frustration with the government......get involved in the election process canvass for the candidate you like etc....

that flag stands for our COUNTRY it doesnt matter what asshole is at the helm of the ship

[Ronin13]

This is not a black and white topic. We all joined for our own reasons. I wanted to serve this country, that's why I went and stood on the yellow foot prints. My service was to keep this country safe. To protect our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our still being in Afghanistan is protecting our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our attack on Iraq protected our way of life.


10 years later and what have we won for our freedoms over there? Our men are dying over there. Why? It for damn sure doesn't make us any safer.

But that is clearly not an issue with the men and women in the military, but with the political machine who controls them.
I understand your confusion on the subject- and sorry for the derail... First off, once we leave Afghanistan (if they are not fit to secure their own country for themselves) the BGs will come back in and take over. There are already shadow government folks in place in many of the provinces throughout the country, the only reason they're not in complete control is because of ISAF and NATO (we're not the only ones there). Believe me, as it was my job to study up on all the implications and history of that *wonderful* (/sarcasm) nation, if our mission (consequently it would be the Afghan government's as well) fails, I promise you it will fall back into the hands of those who harbor ill will toward our country, our allies, and our very way of life. It will become a safe haven/training ground for terrorism, and we all remember what kind of missions they can plan and command & control when they have a country that essentially gives them free reign and freedom of movement.

Iraq- well this has been discussed in great detail, so I'll be brief: They posed a potential clear and present danger to the United States and our allies. No ifs, butts, or reading it another way. That was a preemptive attack, and for the right reasons. WMDs? You bet. Intent with those WMDs? Who knows for sure- use, pressure, or sell to fellow enemies. Either way, it was in ours and others best interests that Saddam was removed from power. Not saying I agree with the whole nation building idea, but that bog is pretty deep and hard to wade in- you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Ideally we would like to be able to defeat our enemies and make sure that a new enemy to the US doesn't grow back in the void left.

Now to the OP... as I understand it, the reasons for burning a flag legitimately would be if it is no longer serviceable or suitable to fly... so you burned a perfectly good flag? Or was it damaged to the point where it would be disrespectful to fly it? If the former, I also am confused as to why you destroyed it, instead of boxing it up and waiting for your pride in your nation to return. Also- the flag represents us all, not just the governing powers that be, or the half of the country asleep at the wheel that votes. I still think the flag represents the ideas that founded this nation, that it stands for rights, freedom, liberty, etc., not the piece of shit who currently occupies the WH, not the congress that lacks the testicular fortitude to stand up to his anti-Constitution BS, and certainly not the state government that thinks that they can just shred that sacred document line by line.

[TheBelly]

the problem is that I no longer see those sacrifices as being "to preserve the liberty and way of life we enjoy here in America" because I don't believe they have (they may have been intended to, but that's just not how things have turned out).

Zund, you may be a great guy, but this I take a pretty severe exception to this. I've been a part of both major fronts to the current war (during the grittiest parts of both, and in the worst areas of both), and I love the fact that I get to wake up every day and do it again. I will serve until my legs can't carry me and my heart stops beating.

I don't know if you've ever served OUR country, but that little quoted snippet sounds like you're actually NOT grateful for what has been done to allow you the continued freedom to say whatever the eff you want.

Disagree with the reasons (for war) all you want, but please don't ever say that the sacrifices of a few don't make an impact. If you disagree, please visit your local VA hospital. Or, better yet, go visit Arlington.

(mods, I'm ready for my peepee smacking)

[tmleadr03]

I understand your confusion on the subject- and sorry for the derail... First off, once we leave Afghanistan (if they are not fit to secure their own country for themselves) the BGs will come back in and take over. There are already shadow government folks in place in many of the provinces throughout the country, the only reason they're not in complete control is because of ISAF and NATO (we're not the only ones there). Believe me, as it was my job to study up on all the implications and history of that *wonderful* (/sarcasm) nation, if our mission (consequently it would be the Afghan government's as well) fails, I promise you it will fall back into the hands of those who harbor ill will toward our country, our allies, and our very way of life. It will become a safe haven/training ground for terrorism, and we all remember what kind of missions they can plan and command & control when they have a country that essentially gives them free reign and freedom of movement.

Iraq- well this has been discussed in great detail, so I'll be brief: They posed a potential clear and present danger to the United States and our allies. No ifs, butts, or reading it another way. That was a preemptive attack, and for the right reasons. WMDs? You bet. Intent with those WMDs? Who knows for sure- use, pressure, or sell to fellow enemies. Either way, it was in ours and others best interests that Saddam was removed from power. Not saying I agree with the whole nation building idea, but that bog is pretty deep and hard to wade in- you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Ideally we would like to be able to defeat our enemies and make sure that a new enemy to the US doesn't grow back in the void left.

Now to the OP... as I understand it, the reasons for burning a flag legitimately would be if it is no longer serviceable or suitable to fly... so you burned a perfectly good flag? Or was it damaged to the point where it would be disrespectful to fly it? If the former, I also am confused as to why you destroyed it, instead of boxing it up and waiting for your pride in your nation to return. Also- the flag represents us all, not just the governing powers that be, or the half of the country asleep at the wheel that votes. I still think the flag represents the ideas that founded this nation, that it stands for rights, freedom, liberty, etc., not the piece of shit who currently occupies the WH, not the congress that lacks the testicular fortitude to stand up to his anti-Constitution BS, and certainly not the state government that thinks that they can just shred that sacred document line by line.

You can not fight a birth count. Can you tell me with your studying of the area what nation was able to tame, successfully, Afghanistan?

Here is what we have actually done in the middle east. Created a power vacuum. For all his evils, and yes Saddam was an evil dictator, he stabilized the area.

As to what we should have done in Afghanistan? Go in, blow up every training camp we found, kill every terrorist we could find, salt the land and declare victory with a warning to every other nation out there. Harbor people who would attack the US and we will come rape your land and walk away.

Honestly, I don't care if there were WMDs (and I think there were probably some there) we should have let Saddam be. We got rid of him and now we have a power vacuum which all the other nations in the area are wanting to fill. So we are stuck there because as soon as we leave they will fill the void and be more powerful then before.

[KestrelBike]

Yep. I always felt burning the flag was disrespectful to our great nation but lately I'm not so sure it deserves the respect it once did.

But burning the flag is the only proper way of disposing it. Obviously the manner in which it is burned means everything ie reverentially as opposed to burning stamping in a snackbar protest.

[Ronin13]

You can not fight a birth count. Can you tell me with your studying of the area what nation was able to tame, successfully, Afghanistan?

Here is what we have actually done in the middle east. Created a power vacuum. For all his evils, and yes Saddam was an evil dictator, he stabilized the area.

As to what we should have done in Afghanistan? Go in, blow up every training camp we found, kill every terrorist we could find, salt the land and declare victory with a warning to every other nation out there. Harbor people who would attack the US and we will come rape your land and walk away.

Honestly, I don't care if there were WMDs (and I think there were probably some there) we should have let Saddam be. We got rid of him and now we have a power vacuum which all the other nations in the area are wanting to fill. So we are stuck there because as soon as we leave they will fill the void and be more powerful then before.
I know exactly what you're saying, I'm simply stating the reasons we're there and some of the good that comes from fighting there. As far as "taming" the nation, I can name one- themselves. That's the point, by defeating the taliban we weren't trying to conquer Afghanistan (history shows that no one has done this, ever, not even Alexander), we were only trying to liberate them from tyranny- in theory. I agree that we should have kicked their ass and walked away, but we haven't really done that since WWI. Nation building (not a fan because we then become beat cops) has been the name of the game, rebuilding and trying to make friends with our vanquished foes (See: Germany and Japan). It doesn't always work out, but it seems to be policy now. And the devil's advocate answer to the Saddam thing (Again, not disagreeing at all with you, just providing another view point to consider)- you'd be singing a different tune on Iraq if he had used WMDs on someone other than his own people, or sold chemical weapons to Al Qaeda.

[wreave]

One of the ways our government wastes money is they buy very well made and expensive Valley Forge flags (http://www.valleyforgeflag.com/Prod-18-1-1981-241/.htm) by the train car load, fly them over the capital for a single day and box the flags up with certificates of authenticity to hand out like candy.

Many years ago my uncle gave me one of these flags as a birthday gift. I've flow it proudly for years and frankly it was much nicer than the ones you buy at Walmart (they aren't printed, they're sewn together strips of red and white heavy cotton with a piece of blue with embroidered stars on it. Very nice quality).

Couple of minor corrections:

1. These flags aren't flown over the Capitol for a single day. Not even a single minute. They start the day on the roof with a box of flags and run them up and down the pole till they've done all the flags that are scheduled to fly that day.

2. The flags are not expensive, but they do cost money. Anyone can order one.

http://www.aoc.gov/trades-and-areas-practice/capitol-flag-program
http://lamborn.house.gov/flag-requests/

They range from $13-24. You have to fill out a form and send it in with a check several weeks in advance. Not sure if that price reflects the true cost, but there is a change. I'm sure congresscritters do give some away, but in the scheme of things that's a pretty cheap giveaway.

Not sure that burning your flag and refusing to fly it on flag holidays (Memorial Day, Flag Day, Independence Day, Veterans Day) is a particularly meaningful protest, but I respect your right to burn the flag in public or private.

[Dingo]

I'm a cynical bastard, and I think we are heading in a very dangerous, oppressive, and violent direction. But I still am proud to be an American, regardless of the fecal matter currently deposited in the Oval Office. Everything is cyclic, and nothing is static - the entropy effect touches all. Even though things are degrading, the people who founded this country fought and died for an ideal which is still very dear to my heart. Doesn't matter who the captain may be, I'm still glad to be aboard the ship and I'll take it in preference to any other country.

[Ah Pook]

Just a clarification, there is a difference between retiring an American flag and burning one.

[Great-Kazoo]

Just a clarification, there is a difference between retiring an American flag and burning one.

As is the difference between telling your neighbor why you no longer fly it and changing the subject. But hey i'm Pious.

[Ah Pook]

As is the difference between telling your neighbor why you no longer fly it and changing the subject. But hey i'm Pious.
No dog in this fight. Just making a distinction. A right way and a wrong way.

[brokenscout]

The last "Real" war was WWII, It probably won't be long till there is no American flag and we have some United Nations , one world flag.
This is not a black and white topic. We all joined for our own reasons. I wanted to serve this country, that's why I went and stood on the yellow foot prints. My service was to keep this country safe. To protect our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our still being in Afghanistan is protecting our way of life.


I have trouble seeing how our attack on Iraq protected our way of life.


10 years later and what have we won for our freedoms over there? Our men are dying over there. Why? It for damn sure doesn't make us any safer.

But that is clearly not an issue with the men and women in the military, but with the political machine who controls them.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

I will always fly the American flag with pride. It's the voters, politicians etc., that are trying to dismantle this country that should take theirs down.