The new "softer side" of our military....

[fly boy]

AKA... the Chair force. This just pisses me off! Here we are worried about budgets/taxes/fiscal cliffs. But this spoiled little pansy's get brand new BMT (boot camp) places. BMT is meant for a "Rough" lifestyle... it's only 8.5 weeks as it is. Give me a Raise, not soften it up for the sissy's!


http://imgur.com/a/5qhtb


/rant

[davsel]

I understand the issue with budget for new buildings, but, other than the water fountain/bottle fillers, it looks like I remember - just newer.
BMT was only 6 weeks when I went through in '87 [Coffee]

[Bailey Guns]

It was only 6 weeks when I went through in 79. My son was in the same barracks bldgs in 2003 that were in use when I was there and they were old and in need of repair when I got there. I went to his graducation and saw the same lockers, beds, etc, in the barracks bldgs. Those seem pretty elaborate but even bldgs wear out over time and it's often more expensive to maintain and update them than it is to build new ones.

I kinda have mixed feelings on this.

[HoneyBadger]

It's all about the "color" of the money - i.e.: where the money comes from. Some of the buildings I work in are 50 yrs old and literally falling apart, and then they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a fancy new building for the missile defense guys around the corner. My base spent more than $4Million on landscaping last year (all in an area that is about 1.2 sq miles), meanwhile our networks are laughably insecure and the electrical infrastructure is falling apart. So much for being the premier space and cyberspace force in the world... We get hacked by amateurs all the time! /Rant

[fly boy]

It's all about the "color" of the money - i.e.: where the money comes from. Some of the buildings I work in are 50 yrs old and literally falling apart, and then they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a fancy new building for the missile defense guys around the corner. My base spent more than $4Million on landscaping last year (all in an area that is about 1.2 sq miles), meanwhile our networks are laughably insecure and the electrical infrastructure is falling apart. So much for being the premier space and cyberspace force in the world... We get hacked by amateurs all the time! /Rant


10.2 Million dollar new gym on base up here...... we have MULTIPLE testers from 1950's that are STILL not going to be updated, even though we can prove they are the biggest pieces of $#!7

[baglock1]

It's all about the "color" of the money - i.e.: where the money comes from.

And in addition to that, when the the money was allocated. It's not like the military decided to build those last month. I'm too lazy too look it up but those funds were likely allocated ~5 years ago.

At the end of the day, I'd rather our military got a multi-million dollar building before a single Obama phone went out.

[trlcavscout]

Holy shit! What do they think the next war will be fought in the Hilton? My barracks were nice for FT Knox at the time but that looks like a college campus or prison not basic training.

[BuffCyclist]

Wow, if only I had known thats what boot camp would have really been like, I would have signed up years ago!

[facepalm]

[BushMasterBoy]

Looks about the same as 1976...showers are fancier! Nicer laundry rooms too.

[tmleadr03]

Wow. We had nothing like that. Washers and dryers? Only for the DIs. I got to wash my cloths in a concret tub out back.

[TheGrey]

Pansies? Sissies?

Sounds to me like someone's jealous.

USAF has always catered to the less 'roughing it' crowd. Hell, USAF was known for its chow halls and fancy jets- really, what did you expect? A step back to C-rats?

Frankly, it's kind of astonishing that it's taken them this long to update to something that's a bit more modern. When I was in, everything was 1940s-1950s era. hell, when the other services were getting rid of scopes and modernizing their equipment, USAF was right there with both hands out, saying, "We'll take them!" Imagine working on technology still run by tubes, and then having to go up three floors to work on computers. I'd say that the people IN the USAF have very little to say about where the money gets spent.

And if that's your criteria for 'pansy' and 'sissy'...

[cstone]

I went to Basic Training at Ft Knox, right after they filmed Stripes, with Bill Murray. I feel very nostalgic when I watch that movie. Some of the people issuing clothing were used as extras, issuing underwear in the movie. The guy running across the log on the obstacle course brings back great memories.

[theGinsue]

Once upon a time, the USAF had more than 1 BMT training base - sorta like the Army, Navy & Marine Corps have even now. This hasn't been the case for the USAF for a very long time. Long since before I joined the USAF in 1985, ALL USAF basic trainees were sent to BMT @ Lackland AFB. The facilities were kept shiny with elbow grease, but they were old and needing repair back then (in '85). The beds were pre-Vietnam era as I'm sure were the lockers (we didn't get chests like I've seen in movies). Now consider that since before 1985 through now, EVERY trainee has been using the same equipment/facilities on 1 single base, unlike the other branches who have more than 1 BMT station. Those facilities & those bunks/lockers must have been plumb worn out & beyond repair. I can see why getting new/updated facilities was needed.

As as said earlier, aside from the water bottle filling stations, the soap dispensers and toilet stall doors (we never got that level of privacy) in the bathrooms & the upgraded communal showers (okay though, whats with the handicap shower station?), it all looks pretty much the same except with the shine of newness to me. Oh yeah, the dayroom looks bigger too.

One other new change was the training ampitheater. It's larger to accommodate more trainees, has tiered seating so everyone can see - and the TI's can see everyone, and they now have computers (come in, in this generation EVERYONE is using computers for training).

When I attended BMTS, each squadron had 4 laundry facilities where those tasked to do laundry had to compete with the other 20+ flights for the washers/dryers. They had X amount of time to launder the entire flights clothing and it was a battle. Because of broken equipment, the resources were even more fought over between flights. More often than not, I got my clothes back 1/2 dry. When you've got all those wet & wrinkled clothes and only 5 irons for 50 guys to get their items in inspection order, there were failures all over the place. It's about time they provided each flight with their own laundry facility.

So, the bunks are black and not chipped-paint gray & the lockers are fancier. Probably difficult to find shitty gray lockers like they used to have.

All in all, I say that it's about time. If you provide adequate facilities to the trainees, less of their time has to be provided to general facility upkeep and fighting dilapidated equipment & more time can go to actual troop training.

As HoneyBadger pointed out, the base we're on spent millions to landscape a small parcel of land which still looks like crap & makes the routes between buildings less direct. For those of you complaining about our current budget situation & the dollars spent on this, I know from direct personl experience that before the first shovel of dirt is lifted on any USAF building project (including parking lots), there is a minimum 3 year planning and approval process. In fact, I'm dealing with this very thing right now - for the second time in my career (first time as a contractor). The unit I'm with now is well beyond maximum capacity on our facility which we share with another unit. For instance, we utilize our 5'x8' comm room as a comm rm, minor storage room, and housekeeping supply rm. When I need to perform troubleshooting/maint on the unclass router I have to move everything into the hall just to get to the comm rack. We've got 6'x8' cubicles shared between 2 or 3 people on the same shift. we've got people using 4' wide consoles with 4 pole-mounted monitors, 2 telephones, 2 keyboards/3 mice on the console desktop & 1 keyboard stashed below - and these are the people running the primary mission. We've got plans for a new facility - which have been in the works for over 10 years. Every time we get the go-ahead, it's followed almost immediately by a cancelation order. Each cancelation requires us to re-evaluate our current needs with projections for growth and expected necessary upgrades for 10-15 years into the future. This covers considerations for mission growth, personnel growth, equipment updates, future electrical/comm/network requirements, ADA requirements, etc. etc. The point to this whole paragraph is that the new BMT facilities have probably been in the works since the early Clinton years.

So, to say those USAF BMT trainees are pansies and have royal accommodations.... well, just how dilapidated do the facilities/equipment need to be before it's okay to upgrade? Maybe we should just put them all in GP Medium canvas tents (circa 1968) with canvas cots. While we're at it, we'll have them learn about deployment toilet facilities and make them dig their own latrines & burn the barrels of human waste each day like we did in the desert.

Considering these new facilities will probably still be in use for EVERY USAF BMT trainee for the next 50 years, I'd say it was probably time to get it done.

[pepito]

Wonder if they know what a "blister bag" is.
Jealous? Kinda of, but its nice to be able to say, " eh, I've had worse."

[HoneyBadger]

Good post Thomas. I will point out that Mrs HoneyBadger works in the contracting office at Pete, and she's in the sabre flight, so she does all the construction contracts for Peterson, Schriever, and Cheyenne Mountain AFS, new and old. Some of the stories she tells about where money comes from and why certain projects get the green light are just astounding and frustrating.

Appropriately (or maybe ironically), the building she works in was one of the first buildings constructed at Peterson Field (as it was called back then) and it is starting to crumble, but they can't fix it because they are pretty much at the bottom of the list for renovations and repairs.

[Geology Rocks]

AKA... the Chair force. This just pisses me off! Here we are worried about budgets/taxes/fiscal cliffs. But this spoiled little pansy's get brand new BMT (boot camp) places. BMT is meant for a "Rough" lifestyle... it's only 8.5 weeks as it is. Give me a Raise, not soften it up for the sissy's!


http://imgur.com/a/5qhtb


/rant

Dont be mad that your ASVAB score was't high enough to get into the AF. Thats not our fault. :p

[Sharpienads]

Dont be mad that your ASVAB score was't high enough to get into the AF. Thats not our fault. :p [ROFL1]

I hear a lot of excuses from Joes about why they joined the Army instead of the AF. My personal favorite so far is "The AF recruiter was out of the office playing golf, so I went next door to the Army recruiter."

Still, I enjoy working with Joes more than I enjoy being around AF people for the most part.

ETA: We were doing a squadron ruck years ago when I was at Ft. Hood. We past a bunch of Joes who were also rucking and they started trying to be funny, saying something to the effect of "You guys must have your rucks filled with pillows, hooah!". I yelled back and so "No pillows, just high school diplomas, hooah!"

[HoneyBadger]

Dont be mad that your ASVAB score was't high enough to get into the AF. Thats not our fault. :p


[ROFL3]


Well played!
[Beer]

[RonMexico]

What a joke.
I think everyone should have to go through USMC bootcamp and sleep under the stars for a few weeks.

[theGinsue]

While we didn't have this when I went through BMT, the Air Force does have the trainees out in the field for a week now. It may not be as long as the Army or Marines, but I guess we (the Air Force) just learn more quickly.
[Coffee]

For what it's worth, my LOW score on the ASVAB was an 85.

[cstone]

In the Army they don't score your ASVAB. I got a smiley face for putting my name on the top of the page and a gold star for spelling my name correctly. I must have done well because the recruiter said that I could be General if I wanted to be one. [Coffee]

[fly boy]

Once upon a time, the USAF had more than 1 BMT training base - sorta like the Army, Navy & Marine Corps have even now. This hasn't been the case for the USAF for a very long time. Long since before I joined the USAF in 1985, ALL USAF basic trainees were sent to BMT @ Lackland AFB. The facilities were kept shiny with elbow grease, but they were old and needing repair back then (in '85). The beds were pre-Vietnam era as I'm sure were the lockers (we didn't get chests like I've seen in movies). Now consider that since before 1985 through now, EVERY trainee has been using the same equipment/facilities on 1 single base, unlike the other branches who have more than 1 BMT station. Those facilities & those bunks/lockers must have been plumb worn out & beyond repair. I can see why getting new/updated facilities was needed.

As as said earlier, aside from the water bottle filling stations, the soap dispensers and toilet stall doors (we never got that level of privacy) in the bathrooms & the upgraded communal showers (okay though, whats with the handicap shower station?), it all looks pretty much the same except with the shine of newness to me. Oh yeah, the dayroom looks bigger too.

One other new change was the training ampitheater. It's larger to accommodate more trainees, has tiered seating so everyone can see - and the TI's can see everyone, and they now have computers (come in, in this generation EVERYONE is using computers for training).

When I attended BMTS, each squadron had 4 laundry facilities where those tasked to do laundry had to compete with the other 20+ flights for the washers/dryers. They had X amount of time to launder the entire flights clothing and it was a battle. Because of broken equipment, the resources were even more fought over between flights. More often than not, I got my clothes back 1/2 dry. When you've got all those wet & wrinkled clothes and only 5 irons for 50 guys to get their items in inspection order, there were failures all over the place. It's about time they provided each flight with their own laundry facility.

So, the bunks are black and not chipped-paint gray & the lockers are fancier. Probably difficult to find shitty gray lockers like they used to have.

All in all, I say that it's about time. If you provide adequate facilities to the trainees, less of their time has to be provided to general facility upkeep and fighting dilapidated equipment & more time can go to actual troop training.

As HoneyBadger pointed out, the base we're on spent millions to landscape a small parcel of land which still looks like crap & makes the routes between buildings less direct. For those of you complaining about our current budget situation & the dollars spent on this, I know from direct personl experience that before the first shovel of dirt is lifted on any USAF building project (including parking lots), there is a minimum 3 year planning and approval process. In fact, I'm dealing with this very thing right now - for the second time in my career (first time as a contractor). The unit I'm with now is well beyond maximum capacity on our facility which we share with another unit. For instance, we utilize our 5'x8' comm room as a comm rm, minor storage room, and housekeeping supply rm. When I need to perform troubleshooting/maint on the unclass router I have to move everything into the hall just to get to the comm rack. We've got 6'x8' cubicles shared between 2 or 3 people on the same shift. we've got people using 4' wide consoles with 4 pole-mounted monitors, 2 telephones, 2 keyboards/3 mice on the console desktop & 1 keyboard stashed below - and these are the people running the primary mission. We've got plans for a new facility - which have been in the works for over 10 years. Every time we get the go-ahead, it's followed almost immediately by a cancelation order. Each cancelation requires us to re-evaluate our current needs with projections for growth and expected necessary upgrades for 10-15 years into the future. This covers considerations for mission growth, personnel growth, equipment updates, future electrical/comm/network requirements, ADA requirements, etc. etc. The point to this whole paragraph is that the new BMT facilities have probably been in the works since the early Clinton years.

So, to say those USAF BMT trainees are pansies and have royal accommodations.... well, just how dilapidated do the facilities/equipment need to be before it's okay to upgrade? Maybe we should just put them all in GP Medium canvas tents (circa 1968) with canvas cots. While we're at it, we'll have them learn about deployment toilet facilities and make them dig their own latrines & burn the barrels of human waste each day like we did in the desert.

Considering these new facilities will probably still be in use for EVERY USAF BMT trainee for the next 50 years, I'd say it was probably time to get it done.

After reading this and a few others posts, I retract my rant. I could agree that they may have needed upgraded buildings/bunks/lockers, and a better kitchen facility for processing the Airmen through. You really opened my eye's to every USAF trainee will attend that single facility. I think I was just shocked at the computers on every single desk for them. But after thinking of it, they are going to a Virtual Air Force and all their training will be on ADLS or online, so they need those computer. I guess that's why it's a rant, you knee jerk react to something before getting the big picture.

[theGinsue]

You really opened my eye's to every USAF trainee will attend that single facility.
Hmm. I think I may have been unclear (tends to happen with me more than I care to admit). All USAF BMT trainees attend the same training base, but there are multiple facilities (Squadrons) where they are assigned for BMT. I believe the pictures just showed one of the dozen or so Training Squadrons.

I apologize if my description implied all trainees used the same single facility. Sometimes I art not so good with wurds and my in-tendud meany getz losted. I'll work on it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, your rant did have some valid points. The USAF has always had a higher standard they hope to provide to their people than the other branches. While I was at Scott AFB, IL, they build new dorms (barracks in Army/Marine lingo) for the Airmen. They were designated as 1 person/room. The Army contingent of USTRANSCOM fought vehemently to have 3 people/room. In the end, everyone but the Army soldiers got 1 person/room but the Army troops had 2people/room. Why else do you think I went with the Air Force?

[TheBelly]

After reading this and a few others posts, I retract my rant. I could agree that they may have needed upgraded buildings/bunks/lockers, and a better kitchen facility for processing the Airmen through. You really opened my eye's to every USAF trainee will attend that single facility. I think I was just shocked at the computers on every single desk for them. But after thinking of it, they are going to a Virtual Air Force and all their training will be on ADLS or online, so they need those computer. I guess that's why it's a rant, you knee jerk react to something before getting the big picture.


Retract your rant?

Just.... Just.... Just go punch yourself in the face!

(retract your rant, can you believe this guy?)

[fly boy]

Hmm. I think I may have been unclear (tends to happen with me more than I care to admit). All USAF BMT trainees attend the same training base, but there are multiple facilities (Squadrons) where they are assigned for BMT. I believe the pictures just showed one of the dozen or so Training Squadrons.

I apologize if my description implied all trainees used the same single facility. Sometimes I art not so good with wurds and my in-tendud meany getz losted. I'll work on it.
I understood. There are 5-7 SQ's, and I am sure all are getting the new facility, this was just the first one.

[fly boy]

Retract your rant?

Just.... Just.... Just go punch yourself in the face!

(retract your rant, can you believe this guy?)

New to post whoreing! I was angry, and upset..... I was out of beer.

[Sharpienads]

I still think your rant was somewhat valid. In the long run, this will probably save the AF money because they won't have to give trainees Substandard Living Allowance anymore.