Should I throw away my reloading manual?

[Jamnanc]

I started loading for the 357 Sig. I found appropriate bullets and was using hs-6 as my powder. My Speer reloading manual gave a charge weight of 8.6 to a max of 9.6 grains with a 125 grain bullet. I'm not as careful as others, so I made up some loads at 9.0. They shot fine, but seemed a little hot. There is another post about my primer strikes.

My interwebz research and the possibility of setback led me to try some AA#9 to make a more idiot proof loading. While at a local reloading supply and cartridge remanufacturing house, I got my powder and mentioned what I wanted it for. The "salesman" asked "how much hs6 I used", and I told him. He then opened his manual and Hodgdon manual and showed me that 8.0 is the minimum and 9.0 grains is a max charge in that configuration. WTF can I not trust my Speer manual?

[Great-Kazoo]

I read all material on hand, then refer back to mfg load data as a starting point. Easy internet access and ease of use.
All my loads are middle of the road for plinking and very rare for me to load to max spec. Stop by and check out the 4 manuals i have, you'll see a lot of variance using same powder and bullet. Really confusing if i was just getting in to the game. Fortunately between here and other well informed sites it made my return to reloading easier and less stressful.

[Zombie Steve]

Should I throw away my reloading manual?


Nope, you should buy a few more for exactly the reason you're talking about.

Powder charge weight is only one part of the puzzle. When you look at a few sources and see their differences, you need to have an understanding as to why. For example, one manual might be loading 230 grain full metal jacket in .45 auto at 1.275". Another might have done their testing at 1.210". The one seated deeper is going to have a lower max charge (less case volume = quicker pressure curve). All of the other components have an impact as well. Lead vs. jacketed, fmj vs hollow point, standard vs. magnum primer (or even federal vs. winchester), some brass is thicker than others and will reduce case volume...

If you don't have all of the exact same components as what's in the manual, it's going to change, and you certainly aren't using the gun or universal receiver they tested. Some powders are temperature sensitive. Some are reverse temp sensitive (more velocity in the cold than in warm conditions).

Bottom line, it's best to look at a few different sources and compare them to each other and against what you'll be using. Start low, work your way up checking for indications of high pressure.

In your example, start with five rounds each of 8.6, 8.8, 9.0, et cetera. Put them over a chrono if you can. Load development for pistol is easy compared to rifle, so there's really no reason not to take little steps. Even 1/10th grain steps as you approach max loads.

Give us your load details - brass, bullet, primer, OAL... I've never loaded .357 sig, but I'd be happy to look at the data from Speer, Hornady, Sierra and Lyman and try to help you figure out what's going on.

BTW - Speer 14 is one of my favorite manuals. Definitely don't get rid of it.

[Zombie Steve]

Sierra data - .357 sig


125 grain jhp loaded to 1.135"
Starline brass, Win small pistol primer (relatively hot) and HS-6... start load is 7.0, max is 8.9 grains. Tested in a Smith 4006.


Hornady 9 has a 124 grain XTP or fmj bullet (both loaded to 1.140", Hornady brass, same primer, start is 7.8 grains, max is 9.5 grains. Tested in a Sig P229.


Different guns, different brass, bullets might have a longer or shorter bearing surface, different OAL (.005" shouldn't matter that much).



Hornady doesn't have data for AA#9. Sierra's range (with the same setup as above) is 10.0 to 12.0 grains AA#9.


Hope this helps, anyway. I can look up more if you'd like, but you'll owe me a diet Dr. Pepper.

[spqrzilla]

Look at it this way, Speer does not make powder.

Hodgdon's data is online.

And BTW, 9.6 grains of HS6 is probably going to be a warm load for .357 Magnum much less .357 SIG.

[Jamnanc]

I will definitely double check the powder manufacturers website from here on in. I was quite surprised to find that my plinking load that I thought I was making was actually full power.

[BuffCyclist]

Just to help more, Lyman 49th has:

357 Sig - 125gr JHP - 1.135" OAL - HS-6 - Start 8.2gr (1119 fps 28700 psi) - Max 9.3gr (1310fps 38300psi)

But, I think this goes along with what every experienced reloader tells the beginners, get 1 manual, read it. Get another, read it too. Then, get a third and reference all three when working up loads. I look online at the powder manufacturers websites to verify loads in the book seem to match up with my manual. Still need to get another manual though.

[paddywagon]

The more manuals the better! It is also important to look at the weapon used for testing purposes as well. I know that Lyman for a long time has used a universal receiver as well as conventional firearms. I have always found that if I look at every bodies manuals and go middle of the road or the lower 1/3 of the load for a load I am not familiar with or anybody else that I trust, I find that they will be safe and then I can work from there. There are other things to look at as well such as primers and barrel length. It is also good to have a working knowledge or at least a table with powder speeds available.

[Jamnanc]

Update: 8.4 grains, very nice shooting and as accurate as I am :), cycles nicely and less felt recoil than my 9mm loads. The ones with 9.0 also run fine, but will go to the shtf stock. Thanks for the educated opinions and data guys.

[husky390]

It gets fun when you look at older reloading manuals and see what the allowable powder charges were before the lawyers got involved. There are two older guy's who have helped teach me how to reload, I have new books, they have old books and the max charge in my books sometimes is the starting charge in their books. Like what others have said, get lots of books, cross reference to the online data centers offered by the powder manufacturers. Be cautious with the online load data forums.

[BuffCyclist]

It gets fun when you look at older reloading manuals and see what the allowable powder charges were before the lawyers got involved. There are two older guy's who have helped teach me how to reload, I have new books, they have old books and the max charge in my books sometimes is the starting charge in their books. Like what others have said, get lots of books, cross reference to the online data centers offered by the powder manufacturers. Be cautious with the online load data forums.

Exactly! I always start very low and work up. For instance, using WST to load .40, I think the starting load for 180gr FMJs is something like 4.4gr. I started out at 3.2gr and found that 3.8gr is the most accurate load I have ever had! So anytime I'm starting new loads, I make a list of at least 5 different load data from different sources, then start much lower than those too and work up.

[Zombie Steve]

Starting below start loads can be bad news... hangfires with H110 / 296, for example. The idea of a bullet stuck in my barrel isn't too appealing either. Careful with reducing loads.


And as far as the lawyers getting involved... yeah, I'm sure there's a little of that, but they also got transducers involved and they can map the whole pressure curve instead just seeing one point in time like a copper crusher shows you. They've discovered some weird things, and have changed data as a result.