AFGHANISTAN: This is What Winning Looks Like

[ChunkyMonkey]

3 Parts documentary -- worth watching what our guys have to put up with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BKHPTHx0ScQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=S77dCAZzcLM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C8rRqRoCUsg#!

[ImNtUrBuddyGuy]

I love Vice magazine, I have been a fan of them for several years. Although, they self admittedly lean left, they do a fairly good job of being balanced and exposing stories that none of the MSM covers. They have some good documentaries on guns too.

I was in Afghanistan and I can tell you this exactly what the situation there is like. It's a totally different culture that values life and morals in a completely different way than we do. We have been there for over 10 years and haven't changed a thing, it would take a 100 year occupation to change these peoples attitudes and to get them to get their house in order.

It's a fairly bad situation indeed.

[brokenscout]

No one will ever win over there, unless there is no one left

[TFOGGER]

I've said it before: You would have to bomb Asscrackistan FORWARD to the stone age... The best we can hope for is to install OUR tyrants in power.

[Dave]

Can't watch that long of videos at work, but I'll check them out at home. When I was there in 03-04 you could tell most were tolerating us being there because we brought them food, water, power and money. Once those dry up they will be back to the same business they were before we got there, drugs and terrorism. I'm thinking in 20 years we will be looking back at the idea to support Karzai as a cause of the next attacks on western powers by islamists.

[griebel303]

Good post. Just started the first episode and will have to finish the rest when I get home tonight. It is crazy to see this side of the things our troops deal with, and how things go in Afghanistan

[brokenscout]

What happened to real war?

[T-Giv]

Great vids. Thanks for posting those!

[vossman]

Frustrating to say the least

[asmo]

Makes me physically ill to watch. Every time I see squaters it makes me mad.

[Ronin13]

That just barely scratches the surface (just watched part 1)... When I was there in 2009 we learned very quickly that Afghans are lazy, no good, incompetent POSs that don't give two shits about their own country. If they could, they'd collect their $5/week paycheck and go home and puff hashish and fondle little boys' asses all day. The more and more I think about it, no matter what we do we will never accomplish what we need to accomplish. It's so deeply rooted in their society that it really does look to be a lost cause. Not to mention the dickheads next door that are playing two face with us, smiling in our faces in public, yet supporting the Taliban (that they helped put in power, by the way) when we turn our heads.
Good documentary on just that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_SkNUorWhc

[TFOGGER]

Afghans are lazy, no good, incompetent POSs that don't give two shits about their own country.

Therein lies the problem: There is no "country" mentality. Family, tribe, clan...nothing beyond that is really a concern. The vast majority don't actually give a flying fuck about Islam either, it just provides an excuse to make war on others in order to steal their land, women, and wealth.

[Jer]

There's a reason no conquering dynasty has ever conquered Afghanistan (several were lead by more intelligent military minds who knew better and didn't even attempt). The arrogance of this nation to think they were going to succeed where everyone else has failed is expensive and is helping to usher in it's undoing.

[ImNtUrBuddyGuy]

There's a reason no conquering dynasty has ever conquered Afghanistan (several were lead by more intelligent military minds who knew better and didn't even attempt). The arrogance of this nation to think they were going to succeed where everyone else has failed is expensive and is helping to usher in it's undoing.

It is a common misconception that Afghanistan has never been conquered.

The Mongol Empire led by Genghis Khan conquered and held Afghanistan for quite sometime. But Genghis' tactics were a little less humanitarian then modern countries (he basically annihilated the Afghans).

Many of the Mongols descendents are still around in Afghanistan. They are known as the Hazaras.

[Jer]

It is a common misconception that Afghanistan has never been conquered.

The Mongol Empire led by Genghis Khan conquered and held Afghanistan for quite sometime. But Genghis' tactics were a little less humanitarian then modern countries (he basically annihilated the Afghans).

Many of the Mongols descendents are still around in Afghanistan. They are known as the Hazaras.

We can agree to disagree and I think our disagreement lies in what constitutes being conquered. The Mongols occupied & tormented Afghanistan to some degree during their reign, this is true. This does not equate to conquering. It should also be noted that the Mongols by and large abandoned their given way of life and adopted The Nation of Islam and this is the primary reason so many still call the surrounding area home. Those Hazaras you mention were mostly slaves for the Pashtuns who planned Badal against the Mongols and ultimately scared the Mongols right out of Afghanistan (Mongols released in the end to be allowed to leave peacefully). Don't believe me? Study the Pashtun history and tell me at what point it shows ANY signs of being conquered (language, lifestyle, etc) let along the fact that there was ever a treaty signed. In fact, it was probably the Mongols own fighting, division among the ranks and bickering among themselves that prevented it.

Was America ever conquered?

[ImNtUrBuddyGuy]

We can agree to disagree and I think our disagreement lies in what constitutes being conquered. The Mongols occupied & tormented Afghanistan to some degree during their reign, this is true. This does not equate to conquering. It should also be noted that the Mongols by and large abandoned their given way of life and adopted The Nation of Islam and this is the primary reason so many still call the surrounding area home. Those Hazaras you mention were mostly slaves for the Pashtuns who planned Badal against the Mongols and ultimately scared the Mongols right out of Afghanistan (Mongols released in the end to be allowed to leave peacefully). Don't believe me? Study the Pashtun history and tell me at what point it shows ANY signs of being conquered (language, lifestyle, etc) let along the fact that there was ever a treaty signed. In fact, it was probably the Mongols own fighting, division among the ranks and bickering among themselves that prevented it.

Was America ever conquered?

This is true the Hazara's now a days are highly marginalized and persecuted by the the ethnic Pashtun (although not every Afghan is a Pashtun, there are plenty of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Baloch etc). The Taliban often harass and attack them.

All empires come to an end even the Mongols. Just because Mongol empire eventually faded into history doesn't mean that Afghanistan wasn't conquered. If this is true then very few countries have ever been conquered.

Their actually was a peace agreement with the Mongols and the Khwarezmia Empire (the area that is now know as Afghanistan) but the Afghans went back on the agreement by attacking the Mongols--the Mongols then slaughtered most of the Afghans.

[Jer]

This is true the Hazara's now a days are highly marginalized and persecuted by the the ethnic Pashtun (although not every Afghan is a Pashtun, there are plenty of Tajiks, Uzbeks, Baloch etc). The Taliban often harass and attack them.

All empires come to an end even the Mongols. Just because Mongol empire eventually faded into history doesn't mean that Afghanistan wasn't conquered. If this is true then very few countries have ever been conquered.

Their actually was a peace agreement with the Mongols and the Khwarezmia Empire (the area that is now know as Afghanistan) but the Afghans went back on the agreement by attacking the Mongols--the Mongols then slaughtered most of the Afghans.

I guess that the summary of my ramblings was that not only was there never a treaty or any form of physical proof of having conquered but converting en mass to their religion as well as negotiating (read: begging) for a peaceful egress are not the actions of a conqueror. I would say that at best the Mongols occupied Afghanistan for a period of time w/o ever truly changing their way of life. Sounds familiar?

Not only does the geographical features not lend to an easily conquered nation but the various factions of people who live there, for better or worse, don't go easily either.

[hatidua]

It should also be noted that the Mongols by and large abandoned their given way of life and adopted The Nation of Islam

-just Islam, not the Nation of Islam (which was hatched in Detroit in 1930).

[Bailey Guns]

What happened to real war?

The US lost it's will to fight real wars after 1945.

[Ronin13]

Was America ever conquered?
La Raza would say it was, by white, racist Europeans. I wouldn't say conquered, although we did conquer the wilds of the western part of the country (look at CO history, the rocky mountains were a trying obstacle between the settlers and the Pacific Coast). No I'd say America was purchased and/or settled for the most part, not conquered. Mexico was conquered, those damn dirty Spaniards. [Coffee]

[ChunkyMonkey]

I guess that the summary of my ramblings was that not only was there never a treaty or any form of physical proof of having conquered but converting en mass to their religion as well as negotiating (read: begging) for a peaceful egress are not the actions of a conqueror. I would say that at best the Mongols occupied Afghanistan for a period of time w/o ever truly changing their way of life. Sounds familiar?

Not only does the geographical features not lend to an easily conquered nation but the various factions of people who live there, for better or worse, don't go easily either.
If my memory serves me right...

Where the modern Afghanistan is used to be Buddhist kingdoms and dynasties for 1900 years til the Arab's invasions between 800s-1200s. Even during this time, religions are reported to be tolerated. Along the silk route, the Chinese built small temples. After the Mongol invaded, many Khans allowed any religions as Long as they pray for successful raids and conquests. In fact, later Khans adopted Muslim as official religions. At those point of time, most locals either must accepted the invaders rules or simply be butchered. The Mongols brought the current mixed of ethnicity to Afghanistan... Asiatic, Arabic, even European descent. Anyhow, that area had been invaded, defeated many many times. In modern time though.. There is no natural sources to fight for.. Hence why the half ass political skirmishes by the Brits, USSR, and now the USA.

A good example would be Dr Fwd.. He is a mountain dew drinking Asian looking afghani.

[asmo]

No I'd say America was purchased and/or settled for the most part, not conquered. Mexico was conquered, those damn dirty Spaniards. [Coffee]

Some indians (feather not dot) may argue with that.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Some indians (feather not dot) may argue with that.

Cigar, not curry?

[jerrymrc]

The way it used to be. Once upon a time many places were very nice. http://englishrussia.com/2011/07/21/the-afghanistan-of-the-50s-60s/

Rhodesia comes to mind as well. What a third world shit hole it is now.

[Circuits]

If you want commerce to flow through shithole regions, you simply put troops into place to keep the interfaction fighting to a sustainable minimum. The locals will do as they wish among themselves, and allow trade through for a price.

It's that or kill them all and resettle with sane people - and killing them all has proved troublesome in the past.

[Mick-Boy]

You don't need to kill them all. Just the ones that cross you.

We lost as soon as we started trying to apply the post-WW2 nation building process to Afghanistan (and Iraq for that matter). Just because we break it doesn't mean we have to fix it. Punitive expeditions need to make a comeback.