Getting solar at the house

[tmleadr03]

They started Monday. Going to have about 100% of my usage on average.

Day one I left with this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_065255_zpseecd2f5e.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_070008_zps0b5d4fff.jpg

And came home to this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_200207_zps6fbf4877.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_200256_zps26bba48c.jpg

Today I came home to this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130618_191932_zpsabf91568.jpg


They should be all done by noon tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing the electric meter spin backwards.

[jhirsh5280]

I got solar from SolarCity on my house. My last bill from Xcel was $8!

[Rooskibar03]

Damn I wish I could tell the HOA to pound sand and go that route.

[tmleadr03]

I got solar from SolarCity on my house. My last bill from Xcel was $8!

I am using REC solar and my bill with xcell should only be the monitoring fee they charge.

[TheWeeze]

Out of curiosity, how much do you pay someone like Solar City or REC? Do you buy the panels or are they leased?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Kaiser.Shooter]

Out of curiosity, how much do you pay someone like Solar City or REC? Do you buy the panels or are they leased?
seconds

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Damn I wish I could tell the HOA to pound sand and go that route.

Haha but you can tell them to pound sand. Increased energy efficiency such as solar panels supersedes hoa rules and regs. There are laws in place to allow such. I can look them up if you need.

[tmleadr03]

Out of curiosity, how much do you pay someone like Solar City or REC? Do you buy the panels or are they leased?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

You can do either or. For the system I am getting it would have been over 6K to buy it out right. So I leased it with an option to buy at the end of the contract.

If you have a south facing roof they can do some good deals for you.

[rockhound]

lease payment?

[kwando]

Hoas I thought cannot regulate solar... Similar to satellite dishes. I have a coworker that lives in highlands ranch and he has solar. A few homes in my neighborhood has solar.

[rockhound]

this is true, HOAs can no longer regulate anything that would be considered and energy saver including evaporative coolers.

[gnihcraes]

I'm in negotiations with Solar City at this time. Still crunching the numbers, the lease to me is my average monthly bill divided by something and something = $67 month for 20 years + 2.9 % each year. Excel energy is raising their rates every year by more than that much.

I think that's how it's all working out. Waiting for the wife to meet with the sales chick and go through all the numbers again.

None of my roofs will be south facing, all east or west. But I'm including a detached garage and house together, and they promised 95% of my normal usage via solar, usually 100% plus some.

[Gman]

Our tax dollars at work. This technology wouldn't survive without government subsidies;PUC extends Xcel's Solar Rewards subsidies (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23487788/puc-extends-xcels-solar-rewards-subsidies)

[gnihcraes]

Our tax dollars at work. This technology wouldn't survive without government subsidies.

You're already paying for it, check the excel pill, there is a $1.67 fee each billing cycle for other energy solutions. You're paying for us to install solar. (or the vendors anyway)

[Gman]

Yep. We're all paying for something that isn't sustainable nor does it become net positive over time. They'd be better off spending the money for conventional power generation that makes sense instead of making the wind turbine and solar pushers wealthy at our expense. The pushers selling the hardware are the winners in this proposition. The taxpayers get left holding the bag.

The Obama voters across the street love their solar.

[T-Giv]

I was literally just about to post a thread about Solar City! Crazy. My wife and I are looking into them now for our crib. We would probably be looking at the lease option now I suppose. How does it work at the end if you decide to not keep it?

We are also working with our insurance to replace our roof panels because they are discontinued and we can pretty much get it done for free. May be some big changes coming to my house in the near future!

[gnihcraes]

at the end, you can sign up with a new contract, and also get upgrades to new stuff, or buy it outright and keep going. (something like that)

My wife is the smart one, and she wasn't able to attend the sales pitch, so we're meeting again friday.

Neighbor has solar city, loves them and the setup. He bought it all outright up front. (all his energy costs = 9k$ or something) and only pays the monthly tax to excel = $8

[tmleadr03]

Yep. We're all paying for something that isn't sustainable nor does it become net positive over time. They'd be better off spending the money for conventional power generation that makes sense instead of making the wind turbine and solar pushers wealthy at our expense. The pushers selling the hardware are the winners in this proposition. The taxpayers get left holding the bag.

The Obama voters across the street love their solar.

So by that you align me with Obama voters?

Snort.

Do I agree with the subsidies? Nope. Am I going to make use of them since I am paying for them? Yup.

[GilpinGuy]

So by that you align me with Obama voters?

Snort.

Do I agree with the subsidies? Nope. Am I going to make use of them since I am paying for them? Yup.

Ya know, I am no leftie (not for about 20 years anyway) and I don't like subsidies, handouts and shit. But I sure as hell collected unemployment when I got laid off so I could feed my kids. Not quite the same thing, I know.

Good for you if you can make it work. Please keep us posted on how it works, reliability, maintenance costs, etc.

[offgrid]

They started Monday. Going to have about 100% of my usage on average.

Day one I left with this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_065255_zpseecd2f5e.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_070008_zps0b5d4fff.jpg

And came home to this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_200207_zps6fbf4877.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130617_200256_zps26bba48c.jpg

Today I came home to this:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130618_191932_zpsabf91568.jpg


They should be all done by noon tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing the electric meter spin backwards.

What time of day was the top picture taken?

[offgrid]

None of my roofs will be south facing, all east or west. But I'm including a detached garage and house together, and they promised 95% of my normal usage via solar, usually 100% plus some.


What is you average monthly KW usage? Total watts proposed?

An example of a output from a grid-tied system I installed 6yrs ago. South facing, full sun. 3200 watts/Sanyo panels. Averages 420 KW's monthly production.

[roberth]

That appears to be a very clean install, it looks nice on the roof. Does the lease include changing the panels out for newer, more efficient panels later?


So by that you align me with Obama voters?

Snort.

Do I agree with the subsidies? Nope. Am I going to make use of them since I am paying for them? Yup.

This is how I see it. Working folks pay an enormous amount of taxes, this is one way to get some of those stolen monies back.

[tmleadr03]

What time of day was the top picture taken?

All pics were taken either at 7 in the morning or 7 at night or later. I am at work when the sun actually hits the roof.

[tmleadr03]

That appears to be a very clean install, it looks nice on the roof. Does the lease include changing the panels out for newer, more efficient panels later?



This is how I see it. Working folks pay an enormous amount of taxes, this is one way to get some of those stolen monies back.

The way the lease works is that it isn't my solar panels till the lease is over. They maintain them and guarantee the lifetime output for the life of the lease. They also check it every few years to make sure it is performing as pro missed and if it isn't they either lower the payment or fix it. Upgrades, not so much.

[Gman]

If you have to replace your roofing, will they come out and remove the panels and reinstall them under the lease without extra expense to you?

ETA: Found the answer; http://www.solarcity.com/learn/solar-faqs.aspx#a15


What if my roof needs repairs after I've installed solar panels?


Ideally, you should install solar panels on a roof that is in good condition. When a SolarCity site auditor comes out to inspect your building prior to installation, he or she will check to make sure that your roof is suitable for a solar installation. Once the solar panels are installed, they actually help to protect your roof from the elements. If you should ever need to make repairs on the roof, the solar panels will need to be removed and re-installed. SolarCity offers this service for a reasonable fee.

So...hypothetically speaking, let's say there's a hail storm and 2/3 of your roof not covered by panels is damaged. Sounds like another expense.

After the panels have degraded and they are finally paid for, you're stuck with them? No upgrades and another lease contract?

[tmleadr03]

If you have to replace your roofing, will they come out and remove the panels and reinstall them under the lease without extra expense to you?

ETA: Found the answer; http://www.solarcity.com/learn/solar-faqs.aspx#a15



So...hypothetically speaking, let's say there's a hail storm and 2/3 of your roof not covered by panels is damaged. Sounds like another expense.

After the panels have degraded and they are finally paid for, you're stuck with them? No upgrades and another lease contract?

If you buy a house do you get stuck with it after you pay it off? How about a car? You don't pay off a car and just get an upgrade. You want something new and upgraded you have to buy one. You want newer panels you have to buy them.

[mtnhack]

Yep. We're all paying for something that isn't sustainable nor does it become net positive over time. They'd be better off spending the money for conventional power generation that makes sense instead of making the wind turbine and solar pushers wealthy at our expense. The pushers selling the hardware are the winners in this proposition. The taxpayers get left holding the bag.

The Obama voters across the street love their solar.
I don't understand this. How is it not sustainable or net positive? My buddy in S. Ft Collins had them installed last year and he is at 110-150% usage, so he gets money credited back for the excess electricity he is producing on his roof.

[roberth]

The problem with solar and wind is that it isn't driven by market forces. Solar and wind are driven by the government using command economy forces, solar and wind are false economies. If wind and solar were as efficient and clean as fossil fuels we'd be on them already.

I don't think venture capitalsts see any future in wind or solar, that is why the government is driving the R&D and implementation through massive tax rebates and payouts and such.

[rockhound]

the reason they are not feasible is due to the high costs of the system, until recently you had to shell out the thoudsands up front, solar city and companies like them are changing the game at least on that front.

[tmleadr03]

the reason they are not feasible is due to the high costs of the system, until recently you had to shell out the thoudsands up front, solar city and companies like them are changing the game at least on that front.

Exactly, and even so I played with the numbers and it would have made as much sense to go with paying up front if I had the funds right now.

[davsel]

I recently noticed all the new base housing on Peterson have shiny new panels on their roofs.
Then I found this:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/13/IRS-and-TREASURY-INVESTIGATE-OBAMAS-SOLARCITY (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/11/13/IRS-and-TREASURY-INVESTIGATE-OBAMAS-SOLARCITY)

[T-Giv]

at the end, you can sign up with a new contract, and also get upgrades to new stuff, or buy it outright and keep going. (something like that)

My wife is the smart one, and she wasn't able to attend the sales pitch, so we're meeting again friday.

Neighbor has solar city, loves them and the setup. He bought it all outright up front. (all his energy costs = 9k$ or something) and only pays the monthly tax to excel = $8

So you are required to either renew or purchase? What are the fees like if you decide to drop the solar?

[gnihcraes]

You can have the system removed upgraded or continue on with new contract.

Sell the house, the next owner gets the contract, it goes with the house apparently.

[newracer]

HOAs can only regulate things like color of frame and mounting hardware, mounting locations, and other aesthetic items. They cannot totally deny them.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Yep. We're all paying for something that isn't sustainable nor does it become net positive over time. They'd be better off spending the money for conventional power generation that makes sense instead of making the wind turbine and solar pushers wealthy at our expense. The pushers selling the hardware are the winners in this proposition. The taxpayers get left holding the bag.

The Obama voters across the street love their solar.

So am on the same level as this because I took advantage of the $8000 first time home buyer money, and the $1500 energy credit?

I sure hope you didn't cash your stimulus checks that the bush administration and congress sent out when her was in office.

[davsel]

Pretty much, and yes I did - it was my money being returned to me.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Pretty much, and yes I did - it was my money being returned to me.

Are you responding to me?

[davsel]

Are you responding to me?

Yes, yes I am.

[waxthis]

Damn I wish I could tell the HOA to pound sand and go that route.


You can. This supersedes any HOA law.

ClickHere (http://www.cohoalaw.com/uploads/file/CCIOA%20-%202011%20unannotated.pdf)

Section: 38-33.3-106.7
[Coffee]

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Yes, yes I am.

So the stimulus money is 'your' money more so than tax credits that I received? Hmm

[Dave]

I like how people complain about tax breaks and subsidies for wind and solar but not about tax breaks and subsidies for oil, gas and coal. Or oil companies lobbying Congress to allow an exemption to the crude oil export limit set forth after the Arab embargo in the 70's so they can export more domestic crude.

[davsel]

So the stimulus money is 'your' money more so than tax credits that I received? Hmm

Really just depends on if your tax liability exceeded your tax credit.

If so, my apologies - I probably jumped the gun by attacking you over a govt program I disagree with.
My issue is really with the number of individuals who receive more money from the govt than what they pay to the govt.
I have no idea if you fall into this category, and I should not have assumed.

Again, my apologies for the hair-trigger.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Really just depends on if your tax liability exceeded your tax credit.

If so, my apologies - I probably jumped the gun by attacking you over a govt program I disagree with.
My issue is really with the number of individuals who receive more money from the govt than what they pay to the govt.
I have no idea if you fall into this category, and I should not have assumed.

Again, my apologies for the hair-trigger.

Roger that. No worries.

[TRnCO]

tax breaks and subsidies for oil, gas and coal. Actually, what the oil, gas and coal outfits get are NOT subsidies, but rather tax breaks. There's a big difference. Wind and solar are getting subsidies.

[spqrzilla]

I like how people complain about tax breaks and subsidies for wind and solar but not about tax breaks and subsidies for oil, gas and coal. Or oil companies lobbying Congress to allow an exemption to the crude oil export limit set forth after the Arab embargo in the 70's so they can export more domestic crude.

An exemption to an export limit is a tax break or subsidy? WTF?

[CO Hugh]

So by that you align me with Obama voters?

Snort.

Do I agree with the subsidies? Nope. Am I going to make use of them since I am paying for them? Yup.


Maybe not linking anyone to obama voters, but it is economically unfeasible. Solar power is alchemy it will not work on its own.

The problem is that people get the systems, money goes to cronys, (violently anti gun) then program gets renewed because so many people purchased. The man takes more of your money to give to cronies, now you are a serf.

[bigun1962]

Mine is installed 7/18. Looking forward to the backup power made by the sun.

[tmleadr03]

Not on yet but tomorrow the switch will be thrown. One more inspection by the xcell people.


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130619_183459_zps2a181595.jpg

[Gman]

the reason they are not feasible is due to the high costs of the system, until recently you had to shell out the thoudsands up front, solar city and companies like them are changing the game at least on that front.
Exactly, and that's why their business model isn't repeatable. They make out on this deal. They get the subsidies on the front end which dramatically lower their capital expenses to make you their customer. Then they've got you on the hook paying them over time. Even if it's less than what you pay Excel, they were getting nothing before you were paying them for your electricity. Then when the panels have degraded and the warranties expire, the point at which everything is "paid for" and it's all "free" for you, they leave the scene. Any repairs or replacements come directly out of your pocket. Even disposal and repair of your roof comes out of your pocket.

If it made economic sense, everyone would be using it. Even the subsidy programs are creating huge deficits beyond those expenses already planned. I can't justify this mess.

[tmleadr03]

Exactly, and that's why their business model isn't repeatable. They make out on this deal. They get the subsidies on the front end which dramatically lower their capital expenses to make you their customer. Then they've got you on the hook paying them over time. Even if it's less than what you pay Excel, they were getting nothing before you were paying them for your electricity. Then when the panels have degraded and the warranties expire, the point at which everything is "paid for" and it's all "free" for you, they leave the scene. Any repairs or replacements come directly out of your pocket. Even disposal and repair of your roof comes out of your pocket.

If it made economic sense, everyone would be using it. Even the subsidy programs are creating huge deficits beyond those expenses already planned. I can't justify this mess.

Actually if there is an issue with the panels I don't have to pay for it. Warranty. It is a wonderful thing.

ETA: You seem to have an unreasonable expectation of what someone should get with this product. If you bought a car, at the end of a five year loan payment would you expect them to automaticly upgrade you to another vehicle? Would you expect them to warranty the car forever?

Better yet, when you buy a house new do you get a warranty on it for the life of the loan? What kind of crazy talk is this?

[Gman]

A home appreciates. My car has a warranty and it will wear depending on how much I use it. A solar installation begins to degrade as soon as it's put in the sunlight. When the product is finally "yours", it'll be producing about 80% of its rated power (if you're lucky) as the warranties are expiring.

What I was doing was illustrating the flaw in what some believe is a valid business model. If paying for the hardware over time was worthwhile, why wouldn't they load you up with new higher efficiency panels at the end of the term and you go for another contract? Because there isn't government money, our money, on the second go 'round.

[tmleadr03]

A home appreciates. My car has a warranty and it will wear depending on how much I use it. A solar installation begins to degrade as soon as it's put in the sunlight. When the product is finally "yours", it'll be producing about 80% of its rated power (if you're lucky) as the warranties are expiring.

What I was doing was illustrating the flaw in what some believe is a valid business model. If paying for the hardware over time was worthwhile, why wouldn't they load you up with new higher efficiency panels at the end of the term and you go for another contract? Because there isn't government money, our money, on the second go 'round.

How would anyone know what will happen at the end of the contract? They may indeed offer new panels and a new contract. Just like with a car. At the end of the loan the dealer may offer you a good deal for a new one.

[gnihcraes]

Depends on the contract, solar city contract is below:, which would answer a lot of the questions asked. End of contract, buy it outright, have them remove it, or new contract and new stuff.

PDF document.
http://www.solarcity.com/downloads/SolarCity_Residential-Solar-PPA-Contract_sample.pdf

They promise a certain output, so if it fails to deliver over the 20 year period, they will fix/replace as needed to keep it running as designed 20 years previous.

[tmleadr03]

Depends on the contract, solar city contract is below:, which would answer a lot of the questions asked. End of contract, buy it outright, have them remove it, or new contract and new stuff.

PDF document.
http://www.solarcity.com/downloads/SolarCity_Residential-Solar-PPA-Contract_sample.pdf

They promise a certain output, so if it fails to deliver over the 20 year period, they will fix/replace as needed to keep it running as designed 20 years previous.

REC has the same deal.

[Brian]

REC has the same deal.

Have never heard of them. Are they new? Solar City seems to be everywhere. They gave us a good quote, but due to the angles of our roof, the panels will look a little odd - facing forward and I'm not sure it'll be good for resale value if we ever move... so we're still on the fence.

[n8tive97]

Neighbor just had it done. My electric bill is $200 a month on average, I may look into this. Now if I can do something about this freaking outrageous water bill here in Westminster! I have a corner lot in a cul de sac with a large back yard, Tired of paying this to keep the grass somewhat green!

[TRnCO]

$200. a month electric, Holy crapola. I've never had a electric bill over $100. In the summer it runs between $50. and $60. If I had a $200. electric bill, I might look into solar, or find some way to get my bill done some how..

[tmleadr03]

Neighbor just had it done. My electric bill is $200 a month on average, I may look into this. Now if I can do something about this freaking outrageous water bill here in Westminster! I have a corner lot in a cul de sac with a large back yard, Tired of paying this to keep the grass somewhat green!

Try Aurora. When I moved into the house I tried watering for a month. My water bill that month was over 200 bucks and the grass was still yellow. I stopped watering and haven't done it since. My backyard is dead and the front still looks exactly the same. My water bill is just under 100 a month. Extra 130 a month just to have yellow grass? Screw that.

[meatman]

We had our Solar City system installed back in April. Our meters didn't get put in until two weeks ago. Since then, we've been averaging over 30kWh/day and our meter as of yesterday was somewhere in the -36 kWh range and keeps on going down as the sun shines! We went with the most money down program and we should break even on that in 10 years, possibly less time at the rate we're producing.

[offgrid]

[QUOTE=Gman;1189059]A home appreciates. My car has a warranty and it will wear depending on how much I use it. A solar installation begins to degrade as soon as it's put in the sunlight. When the product is finally "yours", it'll be producing about 80% of its rated power (if you're lucky) as the warranties are expiring /QUOTE]

My 8yr+ solar panels are putting out 100% of their rated power.

[al_g]

We really lucked out buying our house earlier this year. The couple had Solar City put a 7.1 kilo watt system on two years ago and pre-paid the 20 year lease. Warrant and contract transferred to us as part of buying the house and we have to send no money to Solar City, our last electric bill was just under $8.

Talking to Solar City on the phone and email prior to buying the house, I found them very easy to deal with.

[tmleadr03]

We really lucked out buying our house earlier this year. The couple had Solar City put a 7.1 kilo watt system on two years ago and pre-paid the 20 year lease. Warrant and contract transferred to us as part of buying the house and we have to send no money to Solar City, our last electric bill was just under $8.

Talking to Solar City on the phone and email prior to buying the house, I found them very easy to deal with.

Damn, I thought my system was big. How much was that electric bill before the solar?

[newracer]

I am going to look into this once I move into my new place.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

When I get a house I'm going to look into solar. granted when I get a house the whole thing will probably be standard anyway.

[Gman]

Depends on the contract, solar city contract is below:, which would answer a lot of the questions asked. End of contract, buy it outright, have them remove it, or new contract and new stuff.

PDF document.
http://www.solarcity.com/downloads/SolarCity_Residential-Solar-PPA-Contract_sample.pdf

They promise a certain output, so if it fails to deliver over the 20 year period, they will fix/replace as needed to keep it running as designed 20 years previous.
Thanks for the link. Holy crap, a 19 page agreement. I did find it positive that they wouldn't put a lien on your home. I'm still not done going through it in my 'spare time'. Their website indicates no options for buyout with a lease. Would you happen to have a link to their lease agreement?

As to no degradation, that's simply not possible; NREL: Photovoltaic Degradation Rates — An Analytical Review (http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf)

[SamuraiCO]

Ok I understand some of the arguments about the lack of transparency with solar (or wind for that matter). No one shows the land getting slagged to mine the rare earth metals. No one shows the pollution from the production facilities in China nor do they take into account the coal fired plants producing the energy to make the solar panels. The alternative energy side just sees the production of clean energy without acknowledging the "carbon footprint" of the manufacturing process.

On the other side part of the argument makes sense from a standpoint of energy independence (if only our energy policy were so and we were drilling for all the gas and oil Colorado could produce). Instead of building more energy production plants either natural gas or coal we can turn suburbia into a daytime producing plant by sending back energy espcially during peak hours in the day time. Our gas and oil could be better spent moving us from point A to B without having to be beholden to people who fund others who hate us and want to do us ill will. Solar is an integral part of any person trying to get "off grid" but I would also utilize wind if availble, wood gasification (there is a new company just moved into Douglas county that builds large generators that are super efficient and also produces electricity from the heat production, a smaller version is the Biolite stove where you can heat up your meal and charge your phone or other electronic device at the same time). Think about how much water we have to send downstream in the Colorado just for energy production to keep Las Vegas, Phoenix and So Cal cool in the summer.

I see the spending to incentivise solar purchases just like any other infrastructure spending project for local, city or state good. I am not a big Gov believer and we would have more purchases outright on new homes but I have been told the language does not account as an upgrade that can be rolled into the value of the home and therefore allowed in the loan. Again if it was tied to a real energy policy that moved the US to be energy independent of middle east oil then this makes sense. And I firmly believe in fracking for all the oil and natural gas our reserves will produce.

So if I was not under IREA I would have a system installed. Part for "what if" scenarios I would have my own energy if the power did go off during the day and I would not have to run my generator all day, just at night. I could opt to add battery banks at some time later to store first then sell back the extra.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[gnihcraes]

Thanks for the link. Holy crap, a 19 page agreement. I did find it positive that they wouldn't put a lien on your home. I'm still not done going through it in my 'spare time'. Their website indicates no options for buyout with a lease. Would you happen to have a link to their lease agreement?

As to no degradation, that's simply not possible; NREL: Photovoltaic Degradation Rates — An Analytical Review (http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf)

I believe their contract is the lease agreement? I haven't looked too closely at it either. I was supposed to meet with Solar City again tomorrow, but it just got pushed back to Sunday. I'll report back with any other details.




So if I was not under IREA I would have a system installed. Part for "what if" scenarios I would have my own energy if the power did go off during the day and I would not have to run my generator all day, just at night. I could opt to add battery banks at some time later to store first then sell back the extra.

Just my $0.02 worth.

My neighbor who has the solar city equipment, did have them install a different inverter that supports generator input. I will also look into the same setup. I'm not sure if there is any additional costs?

[T-Giv]

I am in the process of getting Solar City to come and out have a look at my house. For those that run their AC all of the time...big difference with moving to solar? We are now torn to between just replacing the roof before the panels go on or doing the roof 5 years down the road. Decisions decisions!

[gnihcraes]

I am in the process of getting Solar City to come and out have a look at my house. For those that run their AC all of the time...big difference with moving to solar? We are now torn to between just replacing the roof before the panels go on or doing the roof 5 years down the road. Decisions decisions!

Solar City told me they would replace the roof if needed, before installing panels. My garage would need a roof before panels are installed, so we'll see if they tell me "they pay for it" again when we meet sunday.

[gnihcraes]

Oh, and I talked to State Farm about putting solar on the house, they said go for it, no change on their policies.

[T-Giv]

Solar City told me they would replace the roof if needed, before installing panels. My garage would need a roof before panels are installed, so we'll see if they tell me "they pay for it" again when we meet sunday.

Now that's crazy. Please let me know what they say!

[Gman]

I believe their contract is the lease agreement? I haven't looked too closely at it either. I was supposed to meet with Solar City again tomorrow, but it just got pushed back to Sunday. I'll report back with any other details.
http://www.solarcity.com/residential/solar-ppa.aspx

How is SolarPPA different than SolarLease?Our SolarPPA and SolarLease (http://www.solarcity.com/residential/solar-lease.aspx) are both great options. They offer similar financial advantages to the homeowner. The primary difference is that with a lease you pay by the month, and with a PPA you pay per kWh (http://www.solarcity.com/learn/solar-glossary.aspx#glossary12). Another benefit of the SolarPPA is that you can purchase the system anytime after year five. Availability of SolarPPA and SolarLease vary by location based on what your local utility company prefers.

Please let us know how it goes. The idea of them replacing the roof just seems crazy. I must say that I'm now intrigued.

...anybody want to get me into a timeshare while I'm vulnerable?

[tmleadr03]

http://www.solarcity.com/residential/solar-ppa.aspx


Please let us know how it goes. The idea of them replacing the roof just seems crazy. I must say that I'm now intrigued.

...anybody want to get me into a timeshare while I'm vulnerable?[/FONT][/COLOR]

I heard about some beach front property in AZ if your interested...[Beer]

[Gman]

How much?[pick-me]

[BigDee]

Ok I understand some of the arguments about the lack of transparency with solar (or wind for that matter). No one shows the land getting slagged to mine the rare earth metals. No one shows the pollution from the production facilities in China nor do they take into account the coal fired plants producing the energy to make the solar panels. The alternative energy side just sees the production of clean energy without acknowledging the "carbon footprint" of the manufacturing process.

On the other side part of the argument makes sense from a standpoint of energy independence (if only our energy policy were so and we were drilling for all the gas and oil Colorado could produce). Instead of building more energy production plants either natural gas or coal we can turn suburbia into a daytime producing plant by sending back energy espcially during peak hours in the day time. Our gas and oil could be better spent moving us from point A to B without having to be beholden to people who fund others who hate us and want to do us ill will. Solar is an integral part of any person trying to get "off grid" but I would also utilize wind if availble, wood gasification (there is a new company just moved into Douglas county that builds large generators that are super efficient and also produces electricity from the heat production, a smaller version is the Biolite stove where you can heat up your meal and charge your phone or other electronic device at the same time). Think about how much water we have to send downstream in the Colorado just for energy production to keep Las Vegas, Phoenix and So Cal cool in the summer.

I see the spending to incentivise solar purchases just like any other infrastructure spending project for local, city or state good. I am not a big Gov believer and we would have more purchases outright on new homes but I have been told the language does not account as an upgrade that can be rolled into the value of the home and therefore allowed in the loan. Again if it was tied to a real energy policy that moved the US to be energy independent of middle east oil then this makes sense. And I firmly believe in fracking for all the oil and natural gas our reserves will produce.

So if I was not under IREA I would have a system installed. Part for "what if" scenarios I would have my own energy if the power did go off during the day and I would not have to run my generator all day, just at night. I could opt to add battery banks at some time later to store first then sell back the extra.

Just my $0.02 worth.

I believe under the new laws IREA will have to allow solar on their grid.

I looked into solar last year and didn't do it because of IREA. I could have installed a system and used battery banks to store the reserve power but the added cost eliminated any real benefit. I'm planning to go solar as soon as IREA starts permitting it, I can't stand IREA and greatly look forward to no longer shelling out money to them.

[T-Giv]

Just got off the phone with Solar City. Apparently my roof panels are not conducive to their panels so they won't install panels on my roof until the roof is replaced. They also said that I don't use enough power for their panels so they won't install them until my usage increases.

[al_g]

Damn, I thought my system was big. How much was that electric bill before the solar?I remember asking the previous owners of the house, but don't recall. He used to have something like a half dozen salt water tanks and said that uses a lot of power. So the system was sized for that load.

[meatman]

Damn, I thought my system was big. How much was that electric bill before the solar?

Ours is 9.6kW. We averaged about $80/month or 750 kwh usage for what they based their calculation on. We would've been closer to $75/700kwh, but my wife left the xmas lights on 24/7 during the month of Dec, so our Jan bill was $135/1340kwh which bumped it up. Solar City said Xcel would approve a system that would provide up to 115% of average usage.

[T-Giv]

Looks like my roof is all T-lock or whatever that crap is that got discontinued so I can get it replaced via my insurance since it has hail damage on it. I am going to have to use my AC for the rest of the summer and not be shy about usage through the next year and then my usage average will be up for when I go through with the solar early next summer.

[tmckay2]

i am building a house and am interested in solar but i just am shy about the long term cost effectiveness. i mean how long will these things last? i know they pay for themselves after about 5-6 years.

[meatman]

i am building a house and am interested in solar but i just am shy about the long term cost effectiveness. i mean how long will these things last? i know they pay for themselves after about 5-6 years.

The system itself should last at least 20 years. With Solar City, you sign a 20 yr contract and during that time, they'll warranty and service the system. If forces of nature cause damage to the panels, homeowners insurance should cover that damage.

[gnihcraes]

The system itself should last at least 20 years. With Solar City, you sign a 20 yr contract and during that time, they'll warranty and service the system. If forces of nature cause damage to the panels, homeowners insurance should cover that damage.

Solar City says they insure the house and equipment too, and service it if there is damage or lack of performance. They pretty much take care of the whole solar system, 100%.

[tmckay2]

Solar City says they insure the house and equipment too, and service it if there is damage or lack of performance. They pretty much take care of the whole solar system, 100%.
so then whats the catch? there is always a catch?

[gnihcraes]

so then whats the catch? there is always a catch?

You're paying on it for 20 years and a 2.9% increase each year I believe. (still less than Excel)
You're not going to get the incentives for going solar, I believe they keep those.

I'll get a double check on everything in the morning when I meet with the sales lady again.

[HoneyBadger]

You're paying on it for 20 years and a 2.9% increase each year I believe. (still less than Excel)
You're not going to get the incentives for going solar, I believe they keep those.

I'll get a double check on everything in the morning when I meet with the sales lady again.
Please let us know how your meeting goes. I don't want to get into politics and all that, but I'm very interested in this whole concept.

[SamuraiCO]

I will look for changes in IREA then. I have the perfect south facing slope on my roof, no trees or larger homes casting shadows on it at all.

[rockhound]

i know of several homes in bailey that have solar and would be in IREAs system, the only thing i know about IREA is that there are no incentives paid to install like there would be with xcel.

[gnihcraes]

Ok, met with the solar city gal again, the wife has heard the sales pitch. We'll probably go with it, but have to discuss it a bit. I'll also get a few friends opinions. below are the portions of the quotes I received.

The piece everyone seems to leave out of the discussions are "My Excel Bill is only $8!" Ok, now add in the Solar charges monthly and you're paying $70 a month. So yes, Excel is low, but you're still paying someone for electricity. (solar company)

She couldn't get the updated photo into the quote, but I'll use the house only, front and back roofs, east/west. I've been looking during different parts of the day and I get sun most of the day.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g463/gnihcraes/solar1.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g463/gnihcraes/Solar2.jpg
http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g463/gnihcraes/solar3.jpg

[tmckay2]

id be most interested in just buying it up front if it would actually last a long time. but the costs are probably too high. if you live where the county allows it a small wind turbine can actually provide most of your energy for 16k or so. its not bad over the long term, but of course most counties don't allow it.

[gnihcraes]

Well, outright purchase of the system, is only a return on the money at %2. You can invest it for 20 years at a better rate, right?

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g463/gnihcraes/solar4.jpg

[rockhound]

for saving just $48 bucks a month i am not sure it is worth it. the advantage is you still have power when there is a ppower outage. i guess that would be worth it.

i am curious though, IREA is charging .1231 per KWH. I wonder if the costs were the same size system then this would make our savings 100/month.

[Gman]

It's a savings, but not quite what I was expecting to hear. So....what about SolarCity putting on a new roof?

They get to keep the incentives and lock their customers into a 20-year deal. How many other subscription based companies would like to know they've got a customer for 20 years? ;-)

[Gman]

for saving just $48 bucks a month i am not sure it is worth it. the advantage is you still have power when there is a ppower outage. i guess that would be worth it.
That's not accurate. There's still a dependency on the electrical grid. It's in the contract language posted earlier.

[gnihcraes]

It's a savings, but not quite what I was expecting to hear. So....what about SolarCity putting on a new roof?

They get to keep the incentives and lock their customers into a 20-year deal. How many other subscription based companies would like to know they've got a customer for 20 years? ;-)

No idea on the new roof, I changed the plan here to go with just the house, which has a fairly new roof. The garage was part of the first quote, which would need a new roof before putting down the system.

[tmleadr03]

for saving just $48 bucks a month i am not sure it is worth it. the advantage is you still have power when there is a ppower outage. i guess that would be worth it.

i am curious though, IREA is charging .1231 per KWH. I wonder if the costs were the same size system then this would make our savings 100/month.

Actually no. When there is a power outage a solar customer is with out power as well. They don't want the xcell techs to tap into a line they expect to be dead and find power.

[gnihcraes]

Actually no. When there is a power outage a solar customer is with out power as well. They don't want the xcell techs to tap into a line they expect to be dead and find power.

Good question. Makes sense, I wonder about all the disconnect switches they installed on my neighbors. Can you kill the Main on the house and then get the inverter up and running? Hmm.

[Irving]

Actually no. When there is a power outage a solar customer is with out power as well. They don't want the xcell techs to tap into a line they expect to be dead and find power.


Man, I was going to come in here and comment about some other comments addressing when the system pays for itself. I was going to say, "When does a hot tub pay for itself?" and then continue with the first time everyone has no power but you, is when it pays for itself. While I see the safety of the Xcel techs, kind of ruins it for me.

[gnihcraes]

I'll find out about the power outage question from my neighbor.

Things that were noted from the meeting this morning:

All of the engineering, install, monitoring is done by their own employees (solar city), no contracted out folks.
Production Guarantee, they pay if it under produces, even if a bad year and the clouds were out 50% of the time.
Excel charges x2 summer months rate, Tier 2 apparently?
PPA True up at end of year if the system produces more than used.
If your usage goes up, you pay excel for the energy used beyond the solar system, but this keeps you from the Tier 2 costs they charge.

[tmckay2]

Personally I'm looking for something with a big up front cost but that makes you basically self sufficient unless you go over production. Probably doesn't exist.

[rockhound]

Actually no. When there is a power outage a solar customer is with out power as well. They don't want the xcell techs to tap into a line they expect to be dead and find power.


you just need the transfer switch

[gnihcraes]

you just need the transfer switch

I have got that already... cool.

[meatman]

Personally I'm looking for something with a big up front cost but that makes you basically self sufficient unless you go over production. Probably doesn't exist.

We actually had 3 options when we went with Solar City. We could do the $0.071/kwh + 2.9% increase per year with no money out of pocket which would result in a $62/mo bill to Solar City. The second option was to put down $2k and pay a fixed $0.079/kwh over the 20 years of the contract, $58/mo payable to SC. The third, which we did, was to pay $9500 down and we don't pay electricity for the 20 years of the contract. It should average about $0.042/kwh. Unless we go over our allotted average usage at the end of the year, we don't pay anything. If we produce more than what we use, we'll get credit back from Xcel. I'm not sure if the second and third options are still available. We signed our contract in December. We should reap the benefits in 10 years (come out even).

[Gman]

That's when my neighbor across the street expects to become net positive on his outlay, 10 years. He bought his equipment when the incentives were most beneficial.

I'm pretty sure I won't be in this house that long.

[gnihcraes]

We actually had 3 options when we went with Solar City. We could do the $0.071/kwh + 2.9% increase per year with no money out of pocket which would result in a $62/mo bill to Solar City. The second option was to put down $2k and pay a fixed $0.079/kwh over the 20 years of the contract, $58/mo payable to SC. The third, which we did, was to pay $9500 down and we don't pay electricity for the 20 years of the contract. It should average about $0.042/kwh. Unless we go over our allotted average usage at the end of the year, we don't pay anything. If we produce more than what we use, we'll get credit back from Xcel. I'm not sure if the second and third options are still available. We signed our contract in December. We should reap the benefits in 10 years (come out even).

How do you like everything otherwise? Good? Bad? Any roof or house issues with it installed? Rain hitting gutters correctly? Snow sliding off in slabs when the sun warms it up?

[Gman]

You're essentially leasing the solar company space on your roof and getting a bit of an advantage to not paying the utility company as much by paying less per kWH. The system is owned by the solar company.

Are you able to claim an income tax credit for the installation of solar, or does that only happen when you buy the equipment up front?

[meatman]

How do you like everything otherwise? Good? Bad? Any roof or house issues with it installed? Rain hitting gutters correctly? Snow sliding off in slabs when the sun warms it up?

The installation on the system was good. They had some wiring issues in the inverters when they first installed the meters, but that was quickly resolved. We had the panels installed on my barn-style garage because the roof on our old house will probably need replacing in <10 yrs. The garage was built in November. The second pitch on the barn style roof is pretty steep, so there isn't very much snow accumulation on that side. The panels actually seem to catch the snow and just melts instead of coming down in slabs. Rain hits the gutters properly AFAIK. They put squirrel resistant mesh between the panels and the roof to prevent critters from getting behind the panels to chew them up.

I don't have a current picture, but this is one my wife took during the install in April:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z45/taintedmeat4/IMG_20130405_134423_368_zpsb2c0a8cf.jpg

For reference, the picture is facing east. There is a set of panels on the top east pitch that cannot be seen from this angle.

[meatman]

You're essentially leasing the solar company space on your roof and getting a bit of an advantage to not paying the utility company as much by paying less per kWH. The system is owned by the solar company.

Are you able to claim an income tax credit for the installation of solar, or does that only happen when you buy the equipment up front?

That's correct. I don't think we can claim a tax credit because we don't own the panels.

[rockhound]

how does the lease transfer if the home is sold?

also looking at your numbers your system is not nearly big enough for my usage.

[meatman]

how does the lease transfer if the home is sold?



If you decide to sell you house, you have 3 options. 1) Transfer the panels/lease to your new location (I think you have to pay for that). 2) Buy the panels and sell them with the house. 3) Transfer the lease to the new owners at no charge.

I think #2 is probably the best way to go.



also looking at your numbers your system is not nearly big enough for my usage.



They will size the system based on your usage and usable roof area.

[HoneyBadger]

Personally I'm looking for something with a big up front cost but that makes you basically self sufficient unless you go over production. Probably doesn't exist.


The problem with buying your own system vs a 20 year contract on something like this is the rate that technology is changing. In 20 years, we could (and probably will) see tremendous changes in the efficiency of solar panels. Right now, you're pretty lucky if you can get 22% efficiency out of your solar panels, but some new technologies have produced as high as 47% efficiency in a lab environment.

Just my speculation based on what I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see commercially available panels available for the same price you'd pay now with 30%+ efficiency in 10 years or less. The real upside to that is that the best stuff now will be dirt cheap in 10 years.

[gnihcraes]

Cars keep changing too, TV, phones. Keep waiting and you'll never find the right time to jump in on things. Good or bad. Risk we take.

[tmleadr03]

Cars keep changing too, TV, phones. Keep waiting and you'll never find the right time to jump in on things. Good or bad. Risk we take.


Exactly. My smart phone is now dumb compared to this years line up. But it is only one year old.

[rockhound]

They will size the system based on your usage and usable roof area.

figured that, but based on my usage i am not sure we can get enough panels to offset the IREA bill.

[HoneyBadger]

Well my point was that I think now is not quite the right time to jump in if you want to be self-sufficient at a reasonable price. As I said, it is pure speculation, but my personal decision is to wait a few more years on this one. Just like flash memory 5 years ago was super expensive: You would pay $40 for a 1 GB (class 1) SD card, and now you can get a (class 10) 32 GB SDXC card for $30. Besides, who knows what kind of subsidies solar power will have in the future...

[tmleadr03]

Well my point was that I think now is not quite the right time to jump in if you want to be self-sufficient at a reasonable price. As I said, it is pure speculation, but my personal decision is to wait a few more years on this one. Just like flash memory 5 years ago was super expensive: You would pay $40 for a 1 GB (class 1) SD card, and now you can get a (class 10) 32 GB SDXC card for $30. Besides, who knows what kind of subsidies solar power will have in the future...

If you do that you will never enter the market.

By the end of next year I am sure we will have 1TB SD cards for what we pay for 16GB now at the rate they are going. So now isn't the time either by your definition.

[HoneyBadger]

If you do that you will never enter the market.

By the end of next year I am sure we will have 1TB SD cards for what we pay for 16GB now at the rate they are going. So now isn't the time either by your definition.

Maybe I'm just not being clear. I think there WILL be an appropriate time to enter the market, but that time has not yet come.

With my example above, I recently bought several 64GB class 10 SD cards because the technology has advanced enough and the price has come down enough for it to make sense for me to purchase them. Maybe in a few years solar technology will be at that "sweet spot" where technology has advanced enough to meet my needs, while the price is low enough to meet my needs. Of course that purchase point is different for each individual and depends greatly on what their goals and expectations are. My goals and expectations were to be able to use the SD cards as ultra portable hard drives, and even though we've had 64GB flash memory devices for a few years now, the price point was too high for me to justify their purchase until recently.

Same thing applies to solar. If your goal is to offset some of the cost of your electric bill, then from what I've read above, there are some reasonable options for doing that and they are available now. If your goal is to completely power your own home for less than $15,000 I don't think there is any point on the technology vs price curve that will meet your goal at this time, but as technology changes and prices drop, sometime in the future (near future) it will be possible to meet your goal.

[Gman]

As solar panel efficiency is improved, our appliances and devices that consume electricity also become more efficient so that there's less demand.

Photovoltaic technology has been around for a long time. There's big money in making it more efficient....and we still haven't improved that much. Higher efficiencies are usually the result of using more exotic materials and/or construction methods and the cost increases substantially. The trade-off is usually less efficiency but at much less cost so that the break-even point is 10 years out instead of 20 or 30.

No more timeshare offers please. My cynicism is firmly back in place. [Coffee]

[Firehaus]

When this gets incorporated into solar cells it will be a game changer.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/features/super-black-material.html

[HoneyBadger]

When this gets incorporated into solar cells it will be a game changer.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/features/super-black-material.html
Cool stuff!

and.... carbon nanotubes? [Dunno]

[gnihcraes]

If it helps any, I do know of a person, who went completely off the grid out in Brighton, he still has to supplement with excel and propane heat. He never was able to completely go off grid. (running a normal household) Sure you can cut back to nearly nothing all the way around and probably make things work.

[HoneyBadger]

Sure you can cut back to nearly nothing all the way around and probably make things work.
Right, and that is probably okay for a cabin or retreat, but I don't want to live like that daily.

[Gman]

Cool stuff!

and.... carbon nanotubes? [Dunno]
Carbon nanotubes can create health problems similar to asbestos when inhaled.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-nanotube-danger

[HoneyBadger]

Carbon nanotubes can create health problems similar to asbestos when inhaled.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-nanotube-danger

hahaha I was just throwing out a sciencey buzzword that seems to get some people really excited.

Also, inhaling your solar panels may be hazardous to your health. [LOL]

[gnihcraes]

Namaste Solar looks to be a Co-Op.
Sunrunhome Solar, their installer is REC Solar.
REC - I'm waiting on a quick quote from them. So Far they are not as easy access, responsive as Solar City has been. Solar City Saleswoman might be hungry though. :)

[Gman]

REC seems like they do more commercial work. According to their website, they just completed home install number 10,000.

[tmleadr03]

REC seems like they do more commercial work. According to their website, they just completed home install number 10,000.

That may have been me...

[gnihcraes]

I've got until sunday to sign up with Solar City for a $250 discount. I've got REC Solar coming out saturday morning to see what their pitch is.

[T-Giv]

I've got until sunday to sign up with Solar City for a $250 discount. I've got REC Solar coming out saturday morning to see what their pitch is.

I have an insurance adjuster coming out Monday morning to get my new roof squared away. Solar City has been calling to confirm an appointment to come out prior to the new roof being done. If you wouldn't mind can you let me know what REC has to say in comparison to Solar City? If you would prefer to PM me with details or whatever that would be great. I can also provide my number if you would prefer that way. Are you looking at the lease option or purchase option?

[gnihcraes]

I have an insurance adjuster coming out Monday morning to get my new roof squared away. Solar City has been calling to confirm an appointment to come out prior to the new roof being done. If you wouldn't mind can you let me know what REC has to say in comparison to Solar City? If you would prefer to PM me with details or whatever that would be great. I can also provide my number if you would prefer that way. Are you looking at the lease option or purchase option?

I can post on the forum, a lot of folks looking and discussing it on this thread. Looking at the Lease option with Solar City, similar option I believe with REC.

Solar City has made it very easy to work through the whole process I must say. Credit check online took about 1 minute after hitting submit. (all electronic) Contract is in my inbox waiting for E-Signature. I can just HIT the buttons when I'm ready and be on the way to Solar!

Waiting to see if REC functions as smooth. Unfortunately I'm late on getting alternative quotes.

[tmleadr03]

I can post on the forum, a lot of folks looking and discussing it on this thread. Looking at the Lease option with Solar City, similar option I believe with REC.

Solar City has made it very easy to work through the whole process I must say. Credit check online took about 1 minute after hitting submit. (all electronic) Contract is in my inbox waiting for E-Signature. I can just HIT the buttons when I'm ready and be on the way to Solar!

Waiting to see if REC functions as smooth. Unfortunately I'm late on getting alternative quotes.

After meeting with the sales guy from REC it was nothing but easy online Docusign for me. The next time I actually talked to one in person was when the set it up on the house.

Still waiting on Xcell to install the new meter so I can run my panels.

[HoneyBadger]

I can post on the forum, a lot of folks looking and discussing it on this thread.
We would greatly appreciate this. :)

[gnihcraes]

Ok, met with REC Solar on Saturday Morning. Received their quote.

Thanks to my wife, the Excel Spreadsheet master:


We compared each solar quote to Xcel, not solar to solar.

Each quote was a Lease type system, with some options to buy it during the term or end of the term. (20 years)

REC items I had issue with compared to Solar City.

1. Inverter inside house. Not required, but they prefer to install inside. Not sure I want the inverter box hanging on the basement wall, cables inside and back out.
2. Upfront down payment - $1500, this isn't recovered until about 14 years into the contract/system.
3. Contract and quote are not easily read/follow compared with the items received from Solar City.
4. REC is not completely one company, Solar City is the finance company, they are the installers, they insure everything, including my house. 20 Years, if the system breaks or causes a leak etc, they will fix it. Not really sure how REC covers, they claim 5 years, but then say 10, but then claim to cover the inverter when it's due for replacement. Not clear on all this.

Solar City starts with a kW rate, and it increases 2.9% each year for 20 years. = 13.6 cents after 20 years.
REC starts with a flat rate of 12.8 and never increases = 12.8 after 20 years.

The two are comparable kW $

Basically after 20 years the costs are:


Xcel
$33,357


Solar City
$21,413


REC Solar
$27,896



Here is the spreadsheet if anyone wants to see the numbers and play with them.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2205243/Solar%20Comparison.xlsx

I'll pull the trigger on Solar City here in a few moments and update this thread with progress. (each company is offering $250-500 discounts if signed in June)

[gnihcraes]

Finalized my starting contract with Solar City, 7.63 cents per kW on the contract. (changed slightly lower based on current market I believe)

[gnihcraes]

Solar City called today to setup an appointment for Engineering. They will be on site for Wednesday.

Other vendor was talking like they could start in September?? Woof.

[tmleadr03]

Solar City called today to setup an appointment for Engineering. They will be on site for Wednesday.

Other vendor was talking like they could start in September?? Woof.

Took about a month total for me from signing to installation. Still waiting on xcell to come out and replace the meter. Slackers.

[meatman]

Took about a month total for me from signing to installation. Still waiting on xcell to come out and replace the meter. Slackers.

Took us a little over a month after the finished installation before Xcel came out to put the meters in. It sucks waiting on them when all the sunshine is hitting your panels!!!

[tmleadr03]

Took us a little over a month after the finished installation before Xcel came out to put the meters in. It sucks waiting on them when all the sunshine is hitting your panels!!!

It is pissing me off. REC had the system installed in less then three days. Then when they needed to get inspected by xcel for approval Xcel doesn't even give a bracket of when they will show up. Just gives a half hour call ahead to let the REC guy know he is on the way. So the REC guy had to sit doing nothing and wait for the Xcel guy for a little over half the day. Obnoxious.

[gnihcraes]

Update: Site Engineer was here for a couple hours, went over every part of the house. Likes everything he sees, except for some structure additions needed in the attic. 1922 House needs a couple more supports. He claims they will cover this cost and have a couple guys come do the upgrades when the building engineer checks out the photos and such.

[T-Giv]

Sweet! I just got done with the claims process for my new roof. USAA is sending me a check for $10,700 for a full new roof. Then I'll complete the process with Solar City in September after I have raised my usage over the summer.

[Gman]

I thought you guys might find this interesting;

Solar panel installer SolarCity criticizing Xcel solar program (http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_23607660/solar-panel-installer-solarcity-criticizing-xcel-solar-program)



SolarCity identified four areas where the Xcel program is burdensome:
• Forms cannot be filed electronically, so all documents must be mailed;
• Xcel requires three different forms — each signed at different stage of the process;
• Every system, even very small ones, need a detailed engineering review;
• and when all is done, there is a 90-day waiting period.

SolarCity leases solar arrays, requiring little or no upfront charge to its customers, who number about 4,000 in Colorado, the company said.

"When it is finally turned on, Xcel doesn't tell the homeowner or the installer," Nutting said. "We have to ask the customer to go out and check the meter."

[gnihcraes]

The site survey guy warned me of all the xcel delays. Otherwise they would have it installed and running in no time. O'well, the way it is I guess. It will give me time to evaluate my options with the system. ;)

[gnihcraes]

Update: My system design is complete. They appear to have refused to do any structure upgrades in the older section of my house. Thus the system has been designed to only go on the new portion with the new rafters.

System has been changed from 7.4kw, to 2.9kw.

Not happy right now, they tell me one thing, we'll fix it up, then don't call or discuss before making the changes.

Good thing, this is more than 10% change as I was told by sales staff, I can opt out of everything at this point. Calling them first thing in the morning to discuss.

Already sent an unhappy email to the sales gal, she might want her commission. Doubt she gets anything unless it's installed and operational.

#^*#@%^@^*%*#

· The usable area on the mounting plane is smaller than previously estimated due to structural concerns, therefore we have removed 3.92kW from your system.


Because of this change we have decreased the size of your payment appropriately.


You will receive a separate email from me via EchoSign with an amendment to your contract that reflects these changes and can be approved via electronic signature. Please click on the highlighted link in the email then review the document and follow the instructions to approve the contract.

Before we can begin your installation we need you to:

· Please trim the trees adjacent to the South facing mounting plane.


Yeah, I wouldn't need to trim any trees if the system was on the other half of the house. (kinda figured I would trim it up a bit anyways)

[Gman]

Wow. That's a substantial change. You'll also be fighting those trees for as long as you need them out of the way of the panels.

[gnihcraes]

Wow. That's a substantial change. You'll also be fighting those trees for as long as you need them out of the way of the panels.

Correct. I need to trim this tree and another anyway, so I'll get a quote for that before continuing with any of this.

I can opt out of the contract right now because of such a substantial change, I won't approve the engineering drawings, I've already printed out the cancellation form. Just trying to figure out exactly where to email it. Everything is Electronic except for the cancellation process, which indicates "mail to:" a physical address. The contracts mention a 3 day period after signing and a 14 day period to cancel. ??

Solar City will have to send a new contract anyway, since the kW and payment structure has changed.

totally bummed. Might still continue with this, just have to think about it and run the numbers.

[meatman]

Good thing, this is more than 10% change as I was told by sales staff, I can opt out of everything at this point. Calling them first thing in the morning to discuss.

Already sent an unhappy email to the sales gal, she might want her commission. Doubt she gets anything unless it's installed and operational.




That's a bummer. They had to change our original design because they said that the roof on our house was only going to last 8 more years. I was ready to opt out, but since the engineers were already at our house, they decided to check out my new garage and found a way to put it on there. It all worked out at the end. That seems like a huge drop in the system output though to go from 7.4kw to 2.9. Did they say what the percentage of your average usage the 2.9kw system is compared to the 7.4?

[tmleadr03]

Update: My system design is complete. They appear to have refused to do any structure upgrades in the older section of my house. Thus the system has been designed to only go on the new portion with the new rafters.

System has been changed from 7.4kw, to 2.9kw.

Not happy right now, they tell me one thing, we'll fix it up, then don't call or discuss before making the changes.

Good thing, this is more than 10% change as I was told by sales staff, I can opt out of everything at this point. Calling them first thing in the morning to discuss.

Already sent an unhappy email to the sales gal, she might want her commission. Doubt she gets anything unless it's installed and operational.

#^*#@%^@^*%*#

· The usable area on the mounting plane is smaller than previously estimated due to structural concerns, therefore we have removed 3.92kW from your system.


Because of this change we have decreased the size of your payment appropriately.


You will receive a separate email from me via EchoSign with an amendment to your contract that reflects these changes and can be approved via electronic signature. Please click on the highlighted link in the email then review the document and follow the instructions to approve the contract.

Before we can begin your installation we need you to:

· Please trim the trees adjacent to the South facing mounting plane.


Yeah, I wouldn't need to trim any trees if the system was on the other half of the house. (kinda figured I would trim it up a bit anyways)

Wouldn't that be a 3.5kW system, not 2.9?

Sorry to hear about the headache. My system got downgraded as well, but due to the chimney shadow from my next door neighbors house.

[gnihcraes]

Well it is listed as 3.4 in one spot and 2.9 in another. One is system size and one is promised output I think.

Frustrated right now because nobody will call me back! I have questions if the house can be fixed up a bit to allow for large array.

I'm sure it can be, but for what cost, to who and if engineering will balk no matter what is done. I'm not going to fix things up to find out they still won't approve it. House has bee here since 1922. Still standing. :)

[CO Hugh]

Bait and Switch travelers.

[gnihcraes]

Update:

Not much changed, I finally got ahold of someone, including the sales gal.

Sales Gal is looking into things, but probably can't do anything obviously.

Engineering folks confirmed, they will not do any updates to my rafters and will not install panels on that 1/3 of the house. (original house)

There is no pressure from Solar City to do anything further, I can opt out of the contract because of 10% difference in the quote. No time frame, although the sooner the better I'd figure.

I'm waiting for a quote to trim up the tree, it needs that done anyway.

I can go with the new quote and system, and if the structure is fixed up in the future, they can approve and install the full system.

I can fix things up without too much hassle and meet their requirement most likely. I'll probably have to get an engineering plan drawn up and then a permit to make it all legal.

52 2x4's, couple boxes of strong ties and nails, I can match it exactly like the new rafters are.

[Firehaus]

Did they account for the old growth lumber which should support more than new construction? I know my structural engineer said there was equations for taking that into account on my 1909 building.

[gnihcraes]

Did they account for the old growth lumber which should support more than new construction? I know my structural engineer said there was equations for taking that into account on my 1909 building.

It's unknown, they won't give me much for details, just that the span is too long for the support provided. There are only like 4 boards holding up everything. :) I need to add more structure anyway. Just a pain I didn't really want to fiddle with yet.

I'll get a photo of it and post it up tomorrow maybe. It's held some pretty large snowfall for what little is up there.

[gnihcraes]

Tree in way of Solar: Looks like 245 to trim the tree back and 145 for a treatment to keep the tree from growing too much. This needs done anyway, so I won't necessarily figure this into the solar costs.

+ 535 to trim another tree not related to the solar.

Probably bite the bullet and get all this done.

Ouch.

[Brian]

We looked at solar a year ago but put off doing anything because of some other commitments. I'm thinking about jumping back in now. Is there a referral bonus for Solar City out there? If so, someone shoot me a PM.

I'm also very interested in the possibility of using the panels when the power is out. I know this doesn't work by default - but if I put in a transfer switch, is there anything preventing it? I was looking to put in a transfer switch anyway at some point, so I'd have a place to safely hook up a generator.

[gnihcraes]

We looked at solar a year ago but put off doing anything because of some other commitments. I'm thinking about jumping back in now. Is there a referral bonus for Solar City out there? If so, someone shoot me a PM.

I'm also very interested in the possibility of using the panels when the power is out. I know this doesn't work by default - but if I put in a transfer switch, is there anything preventing it? I was looking to put in a transfer switch anyway at some point, so I'd have a place to safely hook up a generator.

Yes, I can refer and get a discount/kickback.

Power failure, the invertor monitors the Xcel side of the power, and will shutdown the output from the solar panels. You can still use the transfer switch. I'll know more information once I get back on the install of my system. Hopefully in a week or two.

[tmleadr03]

We looked at solar a year ago but put off doing anything because of some other commitments. I'm thinking about jumping back in now. Is there a referral bonus for Solar City out there? If so, someone shoot me a PM.

I'm also very interested in the possibility of using the panels when the power is out. I know this doesn't work by default - but if I put in a transfer switch, is there anything preventing it? I was looking to put in a transfer switch anyway at some point, so I'd have a place to safely hook up a generator.

There is one with REC as well. Let me know too. [Beer]


When I signed up for REC I also got an iPad mini. I am meh over that so far since I haven't really found a use for it at the shop. I got the iPad after they installed the system. And I still haven't gotten the meter from Xcell. So still no solar.

[def90]

Ah yes.. the solar haters..

Solar can go either way.. If you put solar on a regular house it will be a wash at best. If you put solar on a house that is built for it it will pay for itself in a matter of a few years.

I wish I had solar at my place. I rent a townhouse/condo. Everything in my place is electric, the baseboard heat, oven, refridgerator, dish washer, washer/dryer and so on.. My electric bills can reach up to $300 a month in the winter and hover around $60-70 in the summer. If I had solar I'd be saving a ton of money.

[Brian]

Yes, I can refer and get a discount/kickback.

Power failure, the invertor monitors the Xcel side of the power, and will shutdown the output from the solar panels. You can still use the transfer switch. I'll know more information once I get back on the install of my system. Hopefully in a week or two.

Definitely interested in this. Read a few sites that indicate that the grid-tied solar panels are wired in such a way that even a installing a manual transfer switch will not allow you to get power when the grid is down. Apparently the elec. code prevents this due to the risk to the techs and there's no way to get it set up in a way that makes it useful when the grid is down. Wish I had more first-hand answers.

[spyder]

Are any of you going to add mirrors to your set up for extra power? Also, my wife purchased a bunch of stock in a company that made some kind of amplifier for panels that supposedly tripled the output of them...

Along with solar, are any of you doing wind? It's super easy to make a turbine, well, if you have an old treadmill......

[gnihcraes]

Just waiting on the tree company to come trim things up and then I'll pull the trigger on the smaller system for my house.

I'll get the rest of the roof trusted up and should be able to go for the full system before the end of the year. (i hope) Might be that long before the 3.4kw system is up and running on my site.

[tmleadr03]

Just waiting on the tree company to come trim things up and then I'll pull the trigger on the smaller system for my house.

I'll get the rest of the roof trusted up and should be able to go for the full system before the end of the year. (i hope) Might be that long before the 3.4kw system is up and running on my site.

At this rate it will be next year before I can turn mine on. Still no Xcel meter.

[gnihcraes]

At this rate it will be next year before I can turn mine on. Still no Xcel meter.

that stinks. I figure if it takes that long, I'll be ready for the addition of the extra panels on mine.

[gnihcraes]

i got a $400 referral bonus! I don't even have solar on my house! Anyone else want solar? :)

I've signed the documents for my smaller 3.4kw system, hopefully we can get it installed and start the wait for Xcel to do their part.

I'll start working on the re-structure of my old section of the house and hopefully get the additional panels installed.

[sniper7]

I'm going to look into this for sure. If it looks like a good way to go for my place I'll hook one of you guys up with the referral.

Gnihcraes, tell your wife thanks for the spreadsheets very nicely done! Looks like it could be a substantial savings.

[tmleadr03]

i got a $400 referral bonus! I don't even have solar on my house! Anyone else want solar? :)

I've signed the documents for my smaller 3.4kw system, hopefully we can get it installed and start the wait for Xcel to do their part.

I'll start working on the re-structure of my old section of the house and hopefully get the additional panels installed.

You only get 400 for referrals? Huh.

[gnihcraes]

You only get 400 for referrals? Huh.

That was a promotion for July only I believe. It's now only 200 or 250 $. Then they immediately send a W9, so the government will take half.

Then my friend wants Lunch out of it, so I'm down to about $20. :)

[tmleadr03]

Still havent turned on my solar system. Waiting on Xcel. They are dragging their feet to get as much money from me as possible. On the bright side I am not paying REC for it yet. They won't bill me till I actually use it.

[gnihcraes]

Permits approved, waiting on internal financing or something with solar city. Hope to get install started soon so I can start my Xcel wait.

[Gman]

http://www.wnyc.org/npr_articles/2013/aug/14/utility-companies-push-back-on-solar-incentives/

The General Electric company has announced plans to scrap a $300 million solar panel factory in Aurora, Colorado. The facility would have been the largest of its kind in the country.GE had earlier suspended work on the project, amid falling prices and a rising inventory of solar panels.

Hadn't heard that, but found it looking for an article I read a few days ago about utility companies pushing back on residential solar. The bottom line was that the residential solar customers were paying for very little utility power, but had a reliance on the utility providing service while the costs of maintaining the infrastructure were being pushed off to other customers. I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: Found it - http://www.pressherald.com/news/vermont-utilities-wage-a-solar-power-struggle_2013-08-19.html

I wonder how long before new fees will be assessed to residential solar customers to make up the difference. It's likely one of those unintended consequences. Drive a Prius and save on fuel, only to have the government looking to find other ways to make you pay for roads since gas taxes are often used for highway maintenance.

[gnihcraes]

So what will they do when many of the large government facilities are using solar? Example is the Denver Federal Center over here in Lakewood.

They have a couple large solar farms there.

[Brian]

So what will they do when many of the large government facilities are using solar? Example is the Denver Federal Center over here in Lakewood.
They have a couple large solar farms there.

That's different. We can just raise taxes to pay for those.

[Gman]

...or the government will write themselves a nice little exemption.

[tmleadr03]

Just got an e-mail from REC saying that if I refer someone this month I can get 1k in referral bonus!

So, if you want a set of solar panels attached to your goddamn roof that you can't fucking turn on for three damn months all you have to do is let me know I can put you in contact with someone quickly!


Just let me know! Solar, it would be fucking wonderful if I could fucking use it.

[TFOGGER]

Just got an e-mail from REC saying that if I refer someone this month I can get 1k in referral bonus!

So, if you want a set of solar panels attached to your goddamn roof that you can't fucking turn on for three damn months all you have to do is let me know I can put you in contact with someone quickly!


Just let me know! Solar, it would be fucking wonderful if I could fucking use it.

It's subtle, but I may be detecting a teensy bit of frustration in your comment...

[tmleadr03]

It's subtle, but I may be detecting a teensy bit of frustration in your comment...

Maybe a little.

[gnihcraes]

Solar City Update: I'm scheduled for 18/19 of september.

I went yesterday and saw my Referrals solar city install. Looks great! They were out of 200watt panels so he got a free upgrade to 250watt panels. Jumped his system up to 9kw I believe.

Waiting on Xcel to approve it all.

They are using it anyway by throwing the lever in the meter box to connect the system. Pretty cool to watch the excel meter run backwards and the wattage at the inverter go up and down with the clouds moving overhead. A/C system kicks in and the meter comes to a near dead stop, then flies again when the A/C is done doing it's thing.

Can't wait for my smaller system, hoping to get a panel upgrade too!

I'm not condoning the use of the system without xcel's approval.

A little frustrating that my Referral has his system up and running before me, and before my $400 bonus check! haha

[tmleadr03]

Solar City Update: I'm scheduled for 18/19 of september.

I went yesterday and saw my Referrals solar city install. Looks great! They were out of 200watt panels so he got a free upgrade to 250watt panels. Jumped his system up to 9kw I believe.

Waiting on Xcel to approve it all.

They are using it anyway by throwing the lever in the meter box to connect the system. Pretty cool to watch the excel meter run backwards and the wattage at the inverter go up and down with the clouds moving overhead. A/C system kicks in and the meter comes to a near dead stop, then flies again when the A/C is done doing it's thing.

Can't wait for my smaller system, hoping to get a panel upgrade too!

I'm not condoning the use of the system without xcel's approval.

A little frustrating that my Referral has his system up and running before me, and before my $400 bonus check! haha


And I am still waiting on my damn xcel meter. Fuck Xcell. Fuck them with a solar powered curling iron. But not my solar, cuz it's not fucking on.

[Grant H.]

Wow, you guys seem to have picked some pretty poor examples of solar vendors.

We just got done with my brothers 6K watt panel install and battery bank (enough to cover all of his energy needs). I won't tell you the total cost, but since we did the work ourselves, he will have it paid off in savings not paid to Xcel within 2 years. Took us about 2 weeks to build all the racks and then put them all on the roof.


Yep. We're all paying for something that isn't sustainable nor does it become net positive over time. They'd be better off spending the money for conventional power generation that makes sense instead of making the wind turbine and solar pushers wealthy at our expense. The pushers selling the hardware are the winners in this proposition. The taxpayers get left holding the bag.

The Obama voters across the street love their solar.


I have to ask. Have you done any real research into solar? Recently? Your mostly incorrect responses through this thread would lead me to think that you have not.

Wind power, I will agree, is a total sham that is not sustainable.

Solar however, is viable. Especially now that you can buy solar panels routinely for less than $1.00/watt. Now, I will concede that solar is more viable at the individual level, but there are instances where it works with levels much higher than homes.

The systems we are doing at my brothers house and my parents house will not be grid tie systems. We have mounted separate breaker panels next to their grid panels, and brought the solar power into those new boxes. This way we can move the circuits we choose onto solar, and leave others on grid if we want/need to.

Yes, the tax breaks and incentives are making it easier for people to get into solar, but solar can still be viable even without them.

Despite your apparent hatred of solar, it is a good option.

[Gman]

I have looked into it quite a bit. Cheap Chinese panels have driven panel costs down.

What kind of batteries are you using for storage? Being familiar with battery UPS systems, there is quite a bit of mitigation, maintenance, and replacement costs involved.

[Brian]

FYI, according to this article, both SunRun and SolarCity donated to the pro-Morse defense campaign. I was zooming in to see who the big out-of-state anti-recall donations came from and both of those came up. Not that I'm surprised, given the California background (unless I'm wrong, it appears REC Solar uses SunRun for their leasing program, not sure how else they are connected).

http://gazette.com/interactive-map-who-donated-to-the-colorado-recall-election/article/1505839

[Gman]

Interesting interactive map at that site.

[gnihcraes]

Can win them all I guess.

[tmleadr03]

Still haven't made a payment yet because it ISNT FUCKING TURNED ON so it isn't like my money contributed to it...

[c5fourj]

Well, here is my take. I was considering solar for my home, live on a few acres and planned on a small solar field detached from the home.
I'm a contractor and do a little work for the solar companies in town so, I asked one of the PM's about the program and he said that he would not do it at his home because the panels will never make it to the end of the lease and that they are to expensive to replace. The only advantage, he said, was to have power in a power outage, in the long run no money saved

[Grant H.]

Just bought 3000 watts of panels at $.33 per watt.

Solar charge controller and inverters are on the way.

Now I just have to figure out which batteries I am going to order for my system.

With thin film monocrystalline panels being as low as ~$.60/watt (lower when you find a smoking deal and buy it all), and more spatially efficient polycrystalline panels being in the ~$.80-.99/watt range, I don't see the advantage to the lease systems anymore. When panels were $5/watt and such, it makes more sense, but that's not the case anymore.

[Gman]

What types of batteries are being used for storage in this application?

I was able to Google this solution that SolarCity has; http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage.aspx

...and this article; http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0427/Want-a-solar-home-Consider-batteries

The technology exists, but it comes at a price. Depending on a house's size, location, and consumption, storage adds about 30 percent to the cost of a solar installation, which averages $26,000. Also, batteries need to be replaced every six to 12 years, depending on whether they're used to provide energy at night or strictly as backup systems.

[gnihcraes]

No batteries or storage of energy with these systems. If power is out so is the solar systems ac input.

[Grant H.]

What types of batteries are being used for storage in this application?

I was able to Google this solution that SolarCity has; http://www.solarcity.com/residential/energy-storage.aspx

...and this article; http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/2013/0427/Want-a-solar-home-Consider-batteries
[/FONT][/COLOR]

I will either be using Deep Cycle conventional batteries or AGM.

I would love to see their research, because thats a lot of BS.

I will be adding 3000 watts of solar (405kwh per month at the lowest amount of sun per day in this area - So more like 500+kwh per month) with battery backup and 120VAC inverters for less than $10K. The beauty of my system is that I will be able to take it with me when we sell this house and move.

While batteries are the largest portion of my $10k, I see a financial benefit, as well as a preparedness benefit to doing this.

[Grant H.]

Well, here is my take. I was considering solar for my home, live on a few acres and planned on a small solar field detached from the home.
I'm a contractor and do a little work for the solar companies in town so, I asked one of the PM's about the program and he said that he would not do it at his home because the panels will never make it to the end of the lease and that they are to expensive to replace. The only advantage, he said, was to have power in a power outage, in the long run no money saved

If you buy your components, and deal shop for them, then there is certainly money saved over time.

In addition to power when the grid is down.

[Gman]

No batteries or storage of energy with these systems. If power is out so is the solar systems ac input.


SolarCity's new battery system can help you keep the lights on and fridge cold in a power outage or natural disaster while potentially saving you even more on your monthly utility bills.Our battery systems are currently offered in selected California markets. We hope to offer the service nationwide by the end of the year.Acid/Lead batteries don't live forever. Matter of fact, no battery technology lasts forever. There are mitigation and maintenance costs involved with batteries. If you're doing the math on how much money solar is saving you, don't forget to factor that in.

[Grant H.]

Acid/Lead batteries don't live forever. Matter of fact, no battery technology lasts forever. There are mitigation and maintenance costs involved with batteries. If you're doing the math on how much money solar is saving you, don't forget to factor that in.

I'm not.

Solar is not a "quick ROI" game.

Nor is it a massive ROI game, usually, unless you have overkill on solar panels and a grid tie. The guy I bought my panels from has 32Kw of panels installed on his house, and grid ties back to the power company. He will have his paid off very quickly.

The Tesla battery packs intrigue me. I called one of the guys I have worked for who is good friends with Elon Musk, and asked what he knows about them. He is into tech stuff as well and is apparently supposed to be getting a couple of them for his house. He is going to check and see what can be done to get some more. So who knows...

[gnihcraes]

Interesting they are going to have some battery options. (sorry was reading from my phone earlier, didn't see all of the thread/links)

1 week til my install. I'll post up photos/info as I have it.

[T-Giv]

I finally got my appointment scheduled with Solar City. I'm still not sure if we are going to lease or buy the panels. It looks like we may be using our house as an investment property when we move so we may just look at leasing the panels.

[tmleadr03]

On the bright side even though I haven't turned it on yet I did get the 500 dollar gift card for signing with them...

[T-Giv]

On the bright side even though I haven't turned it on yet I did get the 500 dollar gift card for signing with them...

Is that lease or buy? Are you with Solar City?

[gnihcraes]

My solar install has been postponed, weather is setting Solar City back a few days on installs apparently.

I'm going through a refinance on the house, and will let you all know if the solar panels will increase the value of the house or not.

[tmleadr03]

Is that lease or buy? Are you with Solar City?

REC. Got an iPad Mini and 500 dollar visa card to sign a lease with them.

Now if it could just be turned on, xcel dragging their feet like crazy.

[Ridge]

REC. Got an iPad Mini and 500 dollar visa card to sign a lease with them.

Now if it could just be turned on, xcel dragging their feet like crazy.

I can't imagine why they'd be as slow as possible in helping you to ween yourself off of them.

[T-Giv]

I have my appointment with Solar City tomorrow. I am also going to look into REC solar and see how they compare...especially if they are throwing in the iPad and $500.

[tmleadr03]

I have my appointment with Solar City tomorrow. I am also going to look into REC solar and see how they compare...especially if they are throwing in the iPad and $500.

Don't know what the current offers are. Keep in mind I met got solar installed when I started this thread. Months ago.


I get a referral if you use REC. Shoot me a PM so I can have the guy that came to see me come see you.

[gnihcraes]

I have my appointment with Solar City tomorrow. I am also going to look into REC solar and see how they compare...especially if they are throwing in the iPad and $500.

did you get to run the spreadsheet I posted a while back? Compares solar city and rec solar.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2205243/Solar%20Comparison.xlsx

[gnihcraes]

My install should happen this wednesday, I'll post up install details then.

[gnihcraes]

In a bad spot, the solar system was to be installed several weeks back and got rescheduled to this wednesday. We've got an appraiser coming by tuesday afternoon for a refinance of the house. Not sure we'll get any credit for the solar system if it's not actually "installed". 24 hours might make a difference in the appraisal. ??

[T-Giv]

In a bad spot, the solar system was to be installed several weeks back and got rescheduled to this wednesday. We've got an appraiser coming by tuesday afternoon for a refinance of the house. Not sure we'll get any credit for the solar system if it's not actually "installed". 24 hours might make a difference in the appraisal. ??

For your sake I hope so! I just met with Solar City this morning. Looks like even with stepping up my usage over the last two months I'm still too low. My system will only cover about 80% of my average usage (when I'm running the AC and such). However, after one year I can have more panels installed if my power usage supports them and then I just have to sign a new lease with Solar City at whatever kw/h rate they are going for at the time.

[gnihcraes]

Welp, here is the gig:

Appraisal:
Solar System Installed - no increase in $$ value.
No Solar System Installed - no decrease in $$ value.

Means nothing on the appraisal side of things. It might help sell the house to a customer, but that's it.

My install starts tomorrow, updates soon.

[Gman]

At least they don't find it as a negative.

[gnihcraes]

At least they don't find it as a negative.

Interestingly, they find the "SCHOOL" across the street as a negative. WTF. I guess it's not a "pretty" view.

[Gman]

Well, you have to admit, you haven't been fond of the parking situation. [Coffee]

[gnihcraes]

Well, you have to admit, you haven't been fond of the parking situation. [Coffee]

Yup. It does have a drawback. I always figured a Family with kids would appreciate the school proximity, but maybe not. We hadn't considered it either good or bad when we moved here. O'well. Lakewood PD has helped significantly in the last week with the situation. [PoPo]

[gnihcraes]

Electricians are here, moving right along, doing a clean install. Happy so far! :)

[T-Giv]

Electricians are here, moving right along, doing a clean install. Happy so far! :)

Make sure you post some pics!

[waxthis]

yes [Worth]

[tmleadr03]

yes [Worth]

PG1.

[gnihcraes]

Ok Ok, They are done installing for today. Waiting on Lakewood to do a Rough Inspection. (not all cities do this)

Should have panels installed sometime tomorrow.


34389

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[gnihcraes]

System is installed. Seems to work. During the shady part of the day (noon because of tree) the system is keeping my meter nearly stopped. (very little running in house anyway)

Front

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Rear

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Inverter Display - Two Systems, front and back.

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Solar Panel Specifications sticker.

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[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Why are they strategically located under the shade of the tree when there's open roof area next to it? Does your house sit at an odd angle?

[gnihcraes]

Why are they strategically located under the shade of the tree when there's open roof area next to it? Does your house sit at an odd angle?

After engineering got the photos and measurements, they re-engineered the system to be only 3.4kw instead of 7.5kw because of the old house structure won't support the weight.

System is currently installed on the "New" section of the house we built in 2005. Full modern truss and structure.

I'll be updating the structure in the old attic to match the modern stuff and then order up the larger system. (after engineering and design etc)

The structure should be updated anyway, regardless of the solar system. Shouldn't cost much, 2x4's and some strong tie plates or OSB triangles. Just waiting on my contractor to stop by and give a quote.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Ah thanks for the clarification.

[T-Giv]

Looking good!

[waxthis]

[Alrigh]..

[gnihcraes]

Sun moved over to the SW, I turned all the knobs and flipped the levers.
1407 Watts on west panels
82 Watts on the east. (no sun)

Minor items running in house, the meter runs backwards, slowly.

Kids came home from school, turned on tv and stuff, I was able to keep the meter steady, no movement depending on which household items I turned on and off.

Two separate inputs. East and West.
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[gnihcraes]

Progress of install...

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Xcel questions and answers to how speedy they will be.
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[T-Giv]

Just signed my lease with Solar City. I won't be on solar until February though by the time it's all said and done.

[gnihcraes]

Just signed my lease with Solar City. I won't be on solar until February though by the time it's all said and done.

You didn't use me for a referral! I could have gotten $'s.

Don't be surprised if the installs move quicker than you think. They seem to move quick on paperwork and the install. If weather doesn't delay too much.

I keep throwing the secret lever on my system... ;)

[T-Giv]

[Beer]
You didn't use me for a referral! I could have gotten $'s.

Don't be surprised if the installs move quicker than you think. They seem to move quick on paperwork and the install. If weather doesn't delay too much.

I keep throwing the secret lever on my system... ;)

You know what that's my bad! For some reason I forgot you were Solar City. We could have split the referral! I remembered that teamleader was with REC but I never heard back from them so we went Solar City. I'm working on a few referrals right now with some of my buddies so hopefully I get some cash out of it. Anyone on here deciding to go Solar use me as a referral and we will split the $250!

[SamuraiCO]

If IREA starts to match what Excel does them I'm onboard.

[gnihcraes]

[Beer]

You know what that's my bad! For some reason I forgot you were Solar City. We could have split the referral! I remembered that teamleader was with REC but I never heard back from them so we went Solar City. I'm working on a few referrals right now with some of my buddies so hopefully I get some cash out of it. Anyone on here deciding to go Solar use me as a referral and we will split the $250!

Ha, I got in on the $400 referrals. [Beer] Got a check last week for my buddy who signed up. He's got about 4 other people signed up.

I recently emailed the sales gal, told her I deserve more $ because I've referred one who referred others etc. lol She didn't buy off on it.

[T-Giv]

Ha, I got in on the $400 referrals. [Beer] Got a check last week for my buddy who signed up. He's got about 4 other people signed up.

I recently emailed the sales gal, told her I deserve more $ because I've referred one who referred others etc. lol She didn't buy off on it.

That sure is a creative approach though! I could really use the dough right now too so hopefully some of my friends start signing up.

[Gman]

Are you guys trying to turn this into a MLM proposition? [Coffee]

[gnihcraes]

Are you guys trying to turn this into a MLM proposition? [Coffee]

If I get free money, maybe.

Need some solar?

[T-Giv]

Just had my site audit yesterday. Everything looks good to get the permits done and schedule the install. My system size is 4.41 KW. I have the option to up the size next year if my usage is continuously over my current allotted power levels. I will make sure to post pictures of my install when the time finally comes!

[Rooskibar03]

Maybe it's been covered in the 18 pages of the thread but can someone quickly explain to me how this pencils? What kind of lease costs are you shelling out each month? Unless the lease payments are silly low isn't it just a wash compared to your monthly excel bill?

[tmleadr03]

Maybe it's been covered in the 18 pages of the thread but can someone quickly explain to me how this pencils? What kind of lease costs are you shelling out each month? Unless the lease payments are silly low isn't it just a wash compared to your monthly excel bill?

It is a wash to my current bill. But rates are going to go p and the bill stays the same.

[Irving]

Why do they limit your usage?

[gnihcraes]

Why do they limit your usage?

I believe Xcel will only allow max 120% of your usage, so they can't build a system extremely larger than what you use.

[gnihcraes]

got this response back after submitting a couple xcel forms required to finish my install up. Hopefully I can be up and running soon. (we'll see) ::


Thank you for sending your reservation letter over. I am uploading it to Xcel right now.

I will be contacting you once I receive your net meter order which should occur in the next week or so. When the net meter is ordered, it should be rather quickly for a meter technician to come out and install it. From that point, you will be able to turn on your system, and will have permission to operate.
Thank you again and I will be in touch soon! Solar city

[Irving]

Xcell has control of how much solar you can pay to put on your house, or they will only pay so much? I suppose if you are leasing, and Xcell is paying, then it makes sense for the Solar companies to only install stuff that is within a certain percentage of what people would be paying, to reduce the chances of default.

I have a feeling if you offered cash to buy the whole system, they'll install as much solar as you're willing to pay for. :)

[T-Giv]

Even with the lease payment I'm saving $40 a month. As stated rates are going up but I'm locked in at this rate for 20 years. So financially it made sense for me and the process has been easy thus far. And yes Irving you have the option of purchasing out of pocket but as you can imagine it required some substantial liquid assets.

[tmleadr03]

So amazingly enough my meter has been installed for over two weeks now. I didn't even find out about it till a week after the installation because they tucked a note in my front door while I was at work. And I NEVER use my front door. Then, just for fun, my circuit breaker box is on the exterior of my house, behind the fence line of my neighbor. Before you ask, yes, this is normal for my neighborhood. Every house around here is literally right up to the property line of the property next to them. No easement and no access if you have your meter/fuse panel on that wall. So after a week of missing my neighbor to ask if I could get to my circuit breaker for the solar I said fuck it this morning and jumped the fence and flipped it.


So. Yay me. I have fucking solar fucking power. It has taken so damn long I am more burnt about it and over it then I could possibly imagine. Perhaps when I see some returns on it I will feel somewhat better.

Needless to say none of my wait time had a damn thing to do with the company (REC Solar) that put it in but everything to do with XCell draggin their sorry ass to put the meter in.

The plus side to this is that the system was set up to be 104% of my needs with the wife running a home office out of the house. Looks like that isn't happening any time soon at this point so I should see some VERY quick returns on it. Even though I have missed most of the summer. Did I mention fuck XCell yet? Perhaps I should just in case I forgot. Fuck XCell. With a cattle prod charged with the power from my roof.

So today my box says I made 20KWH. Not too shabby I guess.

[gnihcraes]

tmleadr03

Yeah! Glad to hear it's installed and operating. Keep us posted on the performance etc.

Mine is doing ok. I'm waiting to see the leaves fall off the ash tree and then I'll finally get some sun on the east portion of the system. West side after about noon, I crank out 1200-1400 watts. Highest yet has been 1490 watts for several hours until sunset. I'll trim up the ash some more in the summer after I see how much it blocks it again.

Talked to my contractor today, we'll meet up on monday to discuss the additional support structure I need in the attic, then get that done and approved. I'll call solar city back and say "upgrade please" and see what happens. I'd be golden then, plenty of sun on the roof not shaded by the tree.

[tmleadr03]

tmleadr03

Yeah! Glad to hear it's installed and operating. Keep us posted on the performance etc.

Mine is doing ok. I'm waiting to see the leaves fall off the ash tree and then I'll finally get some sun on the east portion of the system. West side after about noon, I crank out 1200-1400 watts. Highest yet has been 1490 watts for several hours until sunset. I'll trim up the ash some more in the summer after I see how much it blocks it again.

Talked to my contractor today, we'll meet up on monday to discuss the additional support structure I need in the attic, then get that done and approved. I'll call solar city back and say "upgrade please" and see what happens. I'd be golden then, plenty of sun on the roof not shaded by the tree.

At 80% mine is putting out just over 3 k.

[al_g]

tmleadr03

Yeah! Glad to hear it's installed and operating. Keep us posted on the performance etc.

Mine is doing ok. I'm waiting to see the leaves fall off the ash tree and then I'll finally get some sun on the east portion of the system. West side after about noon, I crank out 1200-1400 watts. Highest yet has been 1490 watts for several hours until sunset. I'll trim up the ash some more in the summer after I see how much it blocks it again.

Talked to my contractor today, we'll meet up on monday to discuss the additional support structure I need in the attic, then get that done and approved. I'll call solar city back and say "upgrade please" and see what happens. I'd be golden then, plenty of sun on the roof not shaded by the tree.Pretty cool to see the watt readout. While blowing out our sprinklers today I glanced at the panel was we were make almost 7680 watts. I'm so glad the previous owners were using a lot of power for salt water tanks and we got a pretty big system that they pre-paid the lease for. Every time a bulb burns out it is getting replaced with a LED one so we can drop our power usage bit by bit. I don't think Xcel will be too thrilled with the amount of power we use versus generate ourselves ;)

[gnihcraes]

Xcel put in my meters a couple weekends back. Funny too...

Daughter called the wife while we were on a short errand. Xcel is here, when will you be back? OMG, I've got the system on bypass since the meter is not there, using up free energy! This is a saturday! What is Xcel doing out on a saturday? I'm sweating a bit. Haha.

I bypass the house and go around the block, dang if the service guy is in the back driveway where the meters are. SH*T. (i was hoping it was just some other issue)

I pull in and he yells out the truck window as I approach his truck, "You're all Set". (Puzzled?) Ok, sounds good. Just to see what he'd say, I apologized for using the system, we're trying to get a handle on how many watts it's really putting out on the sunny days before going live. (lie)

Well, you shouldn't be doing that, anytime that meter spins, forwards or backwards, it's charging you. Interesting, I didn't know that? Well anyways, I'm neutral on my generation/useage. So it shouldn't be much of a deal.

Tmleadr03: It appears you're right, if the Xcel guy isn't lying. My friend who has been using his 8kw system, says his bill did come in more than when not having the system. He's been spinning his meter backwards a bit without the new meters. (he was also using AC though, so it's hard to really tell)

My bill went down $25 according to the wife, so my system being nearly neutral on general useage days, apparently is helping save $.

I thought I might catch up to my useage, but with the last week or so of no sun, I'm not doing very well. Solar is at 69kw generated and the useage meter is at 238 or something. Obviously the cold weather and heaters aren't helping.

[jhirsh5280]

I have a system on my house and Ive run a surplus every month its been installed. That included the summer where I kept the house at a constant 70 degrees. Bill from Xcel went from around $100 a month to $8 a month and only because I have to pay stupid fees, otherwise it would be $0. I do pay $49.50 a month to SolarCity so technically it cut my bill $50 a month on average.

[gnihcraes]

I have a system on my house and Ive run a surplus every month its been installed. That included the summer where I kept the house at a constant 70 degrees. Bill from Xcel went from around $100 a month to $8 a month and only because I have to pay stupid fees, otherwise it would be $0. I do pay $49.50 a month to SolarCity so technically it cut my bill $50 a month on average.

Unfortunately my system ended up being small, 3.4kw due to structure issues in the OLD house. I'm working on getting that corrected in the next few weeks and looking into ordering up the additional panels. Hopefully I can get the larger system and start saving a bit more.

[T-Giv]

Just got my system installed yesterday. Came out great! Now the long wait for Excel to get their poop in a group...

[gnihcraes]

Just got my system installed yesterday. Came out great! Now the long wait for Excel to get their poop in a group...

Cool! Time went by pretty quickly really. Just don't use it with the current meters, apparently it does charge you even if the meter is spinning backwards. ? Teamldr was right.

I've got the contractors coming in next week to add some more structure to the roof in my house, then I'll call solar city back for a reevaluation and hopefully more panels.

[T-Giv]

That should work nicely if/when they up your system size. I will post some pics of mine once the ice melts off of it. I also had them design mine with some open panel space so that if I find I am using more than I thought I would I can expand the system down the line.

[TFOGGER]

I've been talking to a friend of mine about installing a system. He advocated buying the panels (currently about $1-$1.25/watt, including the inverters) and doing the install ourselves. He designs the systems for a living, so after we get the roof on the house, I'm going to look into it. At $1.25 a watt, the system will pay for itself (with tax credits) in about 4.3 years, assuming 11.2 cents a kilowatt hour.

[tmleadr03]

Just logged into my online account. Since my meter was installed I have made 824 KWh. Not too horrible for the winter months.

[gnihcraes]

Just logged into my online account. Since my meter was installed I have made 824 KWh. Not too horrible for the winter months.

280.14 kWh on my small system here.

I'm getting about 4 or 5 kWh a day with clear skies. One of the best days I observed was partially cloudy, lots of reflective light it appears.