View Full Version : TWA 800 brought down by "external ordnance explosions"
Singlestack
06-19-2013, 11:36
http://minutemennews.com/2013/06/twa-flight-800-investigators-break-silence-cause-of-crash-misrepresented/
credible? I can't tell - maybe too early
Singlestack
06-19-2013, 13:49
Hoser, thanks for all of your help with the Black Forest and past fires - you have saved many homes!
FoxNews is actually running the story.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/06/18/twa-flight-800-investigators-break-silence-in-new-documentary-claim-original/?intcmp=trending#ixzz2WfOHCkQb
Bogus.
Like the irs targeting conservative groups or the nsa recording all your phone data??
Like the irs targeting conservative groups or the nsa recording all your phone data??
No, more like the Ft Hood Tango being "Workplace Violence," and the Benghazi murders being "caused by a YouTube video."
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Like the irs targeting conservative groups or the nsa recording all your phone data??
The NSA recording all internet and phone data is not true. Thats a conspiracy theory, remember?
blacklabel
06-19-2013, 16:23
Damn near everything is plausible at this point.
Like the irs targeting conservative groups or the nsa recording all your phone data??
Too many years ago and too many people involved.
TWA 800 was one of the most investigated crashes in aviation history.
And airplanes fuel pumps have a history of catching fire. Happens more often than you think.
And airplanes fuel pumps have a history of catching fire. Happens more often than you think.
I did a 5 min search of Google and didn't find any other 747-100 fuel pump fires
And usually when a fuel pump burns up they burn they don't blow the whole airplane apart especially 12 min after takeoff when the tanks are full
Delfuego
06-19-2013, 17:43
I did a 5 min search of Google and...Yah, Hoser doesn't know much about aircraft.
Obv he does does all I'm saying is that I'm not buying shit our .gov says
I don't trust a thing the government says, every day you look at the news someone or some governmental representative has lied to us. My question is when is this going to end!
BushMasterBoy
06-19-2013, 18:39
I was pretty sure it was a missile. But then again the .gov swears the Kennedy assassination was a lone gunman...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
trlcavscout
06-19-2013, 19:12
I can't believe you guys! You should believe everything the gobment tells you like its the gospel.
spqrzilla
06-19-2013, 19:23
I did a 5 min search of Google and didn't find any other 747-100 fuel pump fires
And usually when a fuel pump burns up they burn they don't blow the whole airplane apart especially 12 min after takeoff when the tanks are full
A Boeing 737-400 caught fire in Bangkok in March 2001, a 737-300 in the Phillipines in 1990 ... your Google fu is incompetent.
A Boeing 737-400 caught fire in Bangkok in March 2001, a 737-300 in the Phillipines in 1990 ... your Google fu is incompetent.
737 this is a 747-100 u r dumb
buckeye4rnr
06-19-2013, 19:43
No, more like the Ft Hood Tango being "Workplace Violence," and the Benghazi murders being "caused by a YouTube video."
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Those along with the IRS and NSA scandal show exactly why this isn't a coverup. People spoke up against the official story in those instances and our government is too large and inefficient to successfully hide much of anything from We The People. Pete Blaber(former Delta Force officer) came to the same conclusion after working in the darkest halls of our way too big and poorly run government.
I've got a theory about man being descendants of apes. I have nothing to show as proof for it, but let's teach it in schools.
HoneyBadger
06-19-2013, 20:18
CNN is running it too:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/19/us/twa-crash-claim/index.html
Aloha_Shooter
06-19-2013, 20:31
Never mind, just not worth it.
HoneyBadger
06-19-2013, 20:36
Never mind, just not worth it.
lol i don't know what this was about, but you're probably right... [Flower]
Too many years ago and too many people involved.
TWA 800 was one of the most investigated crashes in aviation history.
And airplanes fuel pumps have a history of catching fire. Happens more often than you think.
When it originally occurred, over a dozen witnesses on the ground stated they saw a "red streak" similar to a missile shooting up towards the plane immediately prior to the explosion. An early leaked/bogus news story stated that traces of PETN were found on the wreckage. LOTS of Stinger missiles were unaccounted for after the Afghan rebels we were covertly supporting finally convinced the Soviets to pull out. It is not implausible that it might have been one of those.
SA Friday
06-19-2013, 21:51
When it originally occurred, over a dozen witnesses on the ground stated they saw a "red streak" similar to a missile shooting up towards the plane immediately prior to the explosion. An early leaked/bogus news story stated that traces of PETN were found on the wreckage. LOTS of Stinger missiles were unaccounted for after the Afghan rebels we were covertly supporting finally convinced the Soviets to pull out. It is not implausible that it might have been one of those.
Really? and just how old are all those lost stingers? Seriously old and stored in conditions that would suck ass for anything much less a stinger. Additionally, smuggling a stinger in from Afghanistan? It would be easier to try and steal one from US or Canadian forces. Good luck with that.
Here's the deal. Counter-intel's main concern in a warzone is to find and eliminate any SAMs near an airbase. I did it for a living and I'm here to tell you we didn't sweat the cheap ones. Ya, we bought them off the streets, but it was damn near impossible to hit an aircraft with the right stand-off, even if it's taking off or landing. Ever wonder what dictates the paramter around an airfield? I don't. Bottom line, short of a very high end SAM like a stinger or SA-16 or above, you are NOT hitting one plane with one shot in one try. No way no how. Don't care how badass you are. And you better be a serious badass if your are going to steal a stinger or smuggle in an SA-16 or better from some ex-soviet country.
I'm simply not believing this plane was brought down by a SAM until I see some serious evidence to support it, and a couple of guys saying, " Oh ya, it's true, it's true" isn't evidence.
ruthabagah
06-19-2013, 22:42
I did a 5 min search of Google and didn't find any other 747-100 fuel pump fires
And usually when a fuel pump burns up they burn they don't blow the whole airplane apart especially 12 min after takeoff when the tanks are full
Center wing tank exploded on TWA 800, it was empty, but still full of gas fumes and due to a short circuit. It is THE most documented crash investigation of all time....
The military version of the 747-100 experienced the same problem in the early 80'.
ImNtUrBuddyGuy
06-19-2013, 23:10
I was pretty sure it was a missile. But then again the .gov swears the Kennedy assassination was a lone gunman...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
There are way too many tinfoil hats on this topic...So you are telling me the government shot down a commercial flight over off Long Island?
Rucker61
06-19-2013, 23:35
There are way too many tinfoil hats on this topic...So you are telling me the government shot down a commercial flight over off Long Island?
And every sailor involved has kept his/her mouth shut since. Yeah, that works.
Mick-Boy
06-19-2013, 23:51
A red streak like a missile huh? Just like the gas station attendant in the 9-11 truther videos that heard something that "sounded a lot like a missile" hit the side of the pentagon....
I wonder if ANY of the people involved have ever seen (or heard) a surface to air missile fire?....
BushMasterBoy
06-19-2013, 23:54
There are way too many tinfoil hats on this topic...So you are telling me the government shot down a commercial flight over off Long Island? I was just thinking some guy with a Stinger, a scanner to listen to air traffic and a small boat. Of course the .gov ain't gonna tell you that is what happened. I just thought when it first happened it was a faulty aircraft. But then came some eyewitness accounts of something streaking towards the aircraft. For reference...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_MIAS
From:
http://observer.com/1999/07/radar-shows-getaway-boat-fleeing-flight-800-crash/
It would seem that even the F.B.I. secretly regarded the 30-knot track as suspicious. For six months, the Government conducted a $5.5 million trawling operation of the waters surrounding the crash, using scallop boats. Commander Donaldson has obtained documents left by the F.B.I. on one scalloper, showing that the F.B.I. was specifically looking for shoulder-fired Stinger missile parts-notably a Stinger ejector motor-in what the F.B.I. called a “possible missile launch zone” 2.7 miles from the crash. That circle included the mystery boat.
ImNtUrBuddyGuy
06-20-2013, 00:11
I was just thinking some guy with a Stinger, a scanner to listen to air traffic and a small boat. Of course the .gov ain't gonna tell you that is what happened. I just thought when it first happened it was a faulty aircraft. But then came some eyewitness accounts of something streaking towards the aircraft. For reference...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_MIAS
Or maybe it was a flying saucer that came down from space and shot it out of the sky with lasers. But of course the government is not going to tell us really happened.
Really? and just how old are all those lost stingers? Seriously old and stored in conditions that would suck ass for anything much less a stinger. Additionally, smuggling a stinger in from Afghanistan? It would be easier to try and steal one from US or Canadian forces. Good luck with that.
Back in the mid-80s when they were still fresh in their sealed crates, I'm sure more than a few were diverted to a few interests with the cash to buy them. I heard that they were asking an even million dollars apiece for them on the black market, and the CIA tried to buy back all they could. The Saudis could certainly afford a few, and they were probably very well stored. Getting them into the US 20 years later wouldn't be a problem. They are not radioactive and were not equipped with GPS. The Chinese smuggle all sorts of stuff across our borders in CONEX containers loaded onto freighters. Easier to smuggle it in on a Saudi yacht with diplomatic privilege. But maybe it really was a defective fuel pump. I dunno. Actually, I'm more concerned about the Soviet nuclear warheads that allegedly went missing shortly after the Soviet union broke up . . . or the alleged NATO tacnuke remote mines (AKA "suitcase nukes") that allegedly disappeared. No-one seems to have any idea where they went (if they actually existed). Of course, it's a lot more complicated to detonate a nuke than fire a Stinger. IIRC those Stingers even came with a cartoon instruction manual in Arabic and several other languages so the mujahideen could shoot down Mi-24s with minimal training.
spongejosh
06-20-2013, 04:21
If it was shot down by terrorists they would claim the attack in order to cause terror. If it was shot down by the government they would do everything possible to hush the missile story and surely wouldn't have the FBI searching for months for a launcher.
Witnesses report a lot of crap that never happened.
Bailey Guns
06-20-2013, 07:38
Really? and just how old are all those lost stingers? Seriously old and stored in conditions that would suck ass for anything much less a stinger. Additionally, smuggling a stinger in from Afghanistan? It would be easier to try and steal one from US or Canadian forces. Good luck with that.
Here's the deal. Counter-intel's main concern in a warzone is to find and eliminate any SAMs near an airbase. I did it for a living and I'm here to tell you we didn't sweat the cheap ones. Ya, we bought them off the streets, but it was damn near impossible to hit an aircraft with the right stand-off, even if it's taking off or landing. Ever wonder what dictates the paramter around an airfield? I don't. Bottom line, short of a very high end SAM like a stinger or SA-16 or above, you are NOT hitting one plane with one shot in one try. No way no how. Don't care how badass you are. And you better be a serious badass if your are going to steal a stinger or smuggle in an SA-16 or better from some ex-soviet country.
I'm simply not believing this plane was brought down by a SAM until I see some serious evidence to support it, and a couple of guys saying, " Oh ya, it's true, it's true" isn't evidence.
I'm not buying the missile theory for a lot of reasons. But it seems, according to the below story, it's not as hard as you make it out to hit an aircraft with a portable missile:
Since 1975, 40 civilian aircraft have been hit by MANPADS, causing at least 28 crashes and more than 800 deaths around the world, according to the U.S. State Department.
SOURCE (http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/06/11/3337855/news-summary-civilian-planes-shot.html)
If it was shot down by terrorists they would claim the attack in order to cause terror. If it was shot down by the government they would do everything possible to hush the missile story and surely wouldn't have the FBI searching for months for a launcher.
Witnesses report a lot of crap that never happened.
True
The terrorists did:
http://www.thehullthread.com/claims.htm
And the Govt did:
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/twa800.shtml
A red streak like a missile huh? Just like the gas station attendant in the 9-11 truther videos that heard something that "sounded a lot like a missile" hit the side of the pentagon....
I wonder if ANY of the people involved have ever seen (or heard) a surface to air missile fire?....
[pick-me] Red streak? Never seen that- smoke trail, yes, but never seen a "red streak"- unless they're speaking about the exhaust- in which case, nope, not there either.
Here is similar to what I got to sit in and watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av2BzaXF6lg
I'm not buying the missile theory for a lot of reasons. But it seems, according to the below story, it's not as hard as you make it out to hit an aircraft with a portable missile:
I'm gonna say that SA might be mistaken on the models and types... By the way, for those that don't know, MANPADS are MAN-Portable Air Defense Systems... and are usually SA-7s (or related Soviet Portable SAM Systems) and use IR to home in on engine exhaust to track the target and hit them. You can very easily shoot down an aircraft with an SA-7, which entered service in the late 1960's. How do I know all this you ask? It was my job to know the threats to our rotary wing aircraft in Afghanistan and the SA-7 is not impossible to acquire by anti-US forces over there.
buckeye4rnr
06-20-2013, 10:40
Back in the mid-80s when they were still fresh in their sealed crates, I'm sure more than a few were diverted to a few interests with the cash to buy them. I heard that they were asking an even million dollars apiece for them on the black market, and the CIA tried to buy back all they could. The Saudis could certainly afford a few, and they were probably very well stored. Getting them into the US 20 years later wouldn't be a problem. They are not radioactive and were not equipped with GPS. The Chinese smuggle all sorts of stuff across our borders in CONEX containers loaded onto freighters. Easier to smuggle it in on a Saudi yacht with diplomatic privilege. But maybe it really was a defective fuel pump. I dunno. Actually, I'm more concerned about the Soviet nuclear warheads that allegedly went missing shortly after the Soviet union broke up . . . or the alleged NATO tacnuke remote mines (AKA "suitcase nukes") that allegedly disappeared. No-one seems to have any idea where they went (if they actually existed). Of course, it's a lot more complicated to detonate a nuke than fire a Stinger. IIRC those Stingers even came with a cartoon instruction manual in Arabic and several other languages so the mujahideen could shoot down Mi-24s with minimal training.
Well there are rumors that JSOC has rendered safe WMDs in the last 10 years so I'm sure someone knows where a few are.
clublights
06-20-2013, 14:24
Wasn't the airliner at the very edge ( if not past) the SA-7 or Stingers max range ( in altitude)
Making a shot from either of those platforms unlikely.
TWA 800 was at about 15000 feet when she broke up .. that is the upper edge of the stinger and over the SA7's max altitude.
Wasn't the airliner at the very edge ( if not past) the SA-7 or Stingers max range ( in altitude)
Making a shot from either of those platforms unlikely.
TWA 800 was at about 15000 feet when she broke up .. that is the upper edge of the stinger and over the SA7's max altitude.
Ooh, good point! Stingers are considered to be low-altitude engagement weapons... SA-7's maximum altitude is about 14,000 ft. and that's the absolute ceiling for that missile.
The investigation stated that it was over 13,000 but under 14,000 feet at the time of the initial explosion.
clublights
06-20-2013, 17:13
The investigation stated that it was over 13,000 but under 14,000 feet at the time of the initial explosion.
humm seems you are right .. I thought she was closer to 15K at the time...
still at the upper edge of both weapon systems capabilities, and would likely take a skilled operator to get a kill at that range.. just like our AR's.. sure they can hit out to 600 yards... but I can't shoot mine that well ...
humm seems you are right .. I thought she was closer to 15K at the time...
still at the upper edge of both weapon systems capabilities, and would likely take a skilled operator to get a kill at that range.. just like our AR's.. sure they can hit out to 600 yards... but I can't shoot mine that well ...
is this true? i thought once they had a lock on that was that
clublights
06-20-2013, 17:24
is this true? i thought once they had a lock on that was that
yes they are " fire and forget" but if you are trying to get max performance you have to pull the trigger at the right time so you reduce the " slant range" and get it to go all the way up.
the rocket motor only burns for so long ...
Ronin would probably be able to explain it better .
spqrzilla
06-20-2013, 17:56
The altitude is one reason to doubt a MANPADS system was involved. The other is the location of the explosion in the center belly tank. Targeting systems vary in details between the various generations and models of MANPADS but that's not where I'd expect the missile to target. Plus, it would be pretty difficult to hide the shape and character of the warhead impacts on the fuselage that a missile warhead would create.
Its not believable at all.
If it was shot down by terrorists they would claim the attack in order to cause terror. Not always. There have been a few cases where demands were made, and when they were dismissed a target was destroyed to prove they were serious. When these events are reported over the AP wire the story gets shut down quickly and no follow up story ever happens.
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