Form I SBR..........

[xjtwo]

Not sure if this is in the right spot, if not mods please move....


I'm planning on going the trust route for this project, can you guys give me some advice on this?

Is there a place locally I can have my lower engraved? I understand that I would need to engrave it as following:

M. Mouse Trust

Correct?

Easiest way to set up a trust?

If setting up a trust do I still need the CLEO signature, fingerprints, & photos?

Can I register the lower as multi-caliber and should I put a minimum length Bbl in case I want to go shorter? So that it gives me the option to run a shorter Bbl if I choose to?

I have an appt with the Sheriffs office in a few weeks and would like to get the ball rolling for a SBR.

Cheers,

J

[rtr]

I believe it would be:

M. Mouse Trust Disneyworld, FL

(ie you need the town you live in when you create the SBR)

With a trust no need for CLEO signoff, fingerprints or pictures.

Easiest way to setup a trust is to hire a lawyer to do it. But many will chime in that you can just use willmaker.

I don't have any answers about the barrel and overall length issues.

[xjtwo]

Oh yeah I need to include the town......thanks!

Maybe I should just go with the sig, prints, and photos....not like I'm selling anything anytime soon. I just like the idea of being able to pass it on if need be.

I have my CCW appt in a few weeks maybe I'll fill out the paperwork, get it signed, get printed, take shots, mail it off and call it good.

Now, is there a local place to have my lower stamped?

-J

[Ridge]

If you make a Revocable Trust, you can add and subtract items from it as you see fit...I was going to go personal route, but the local sheriff refused to sign off and instead suggested I go trust route...

[HunterCO]

Oh yeah I need to include the town......thanks!

Maybe I should just go with the sig, prints, and photos....not like I'm selling anything anytime soon. I just like the idea of being able to pass it on if need be.

I have my CCW appt in a few weeks maybe I'll fill out the paperwork, get it signed, get printed, take shots, mail it off and call it good.

Now, is there a local place to have my lower stamped?

-J

You can pass on a NFA item wether or not it's a corp, trust, personal ect. that does not change.

As far as getting your lower stamped maybe shoot RYAN50BMG a pm he lives in your neck of the woods.

[DOC]

I heard you still have to pass a CBI check too? Correct me if I'm wrong guys?

Not that you can't just wanted to give you heads up.[Beer]

[Ridge]

When you send your paperwork to the ATF they run a comprehensive background check on you...that is what the $200 is for...

[xjtwo]

Thanks for all the info....

Ridge, did you end up going the Trust route? If so shoot me a pm on the details if you don't mind.

-J

[HunterCO]

I heard you still have to pass a CBI check too? Correct me if I'm wrong guys?

Not that you can't just wanted to give you heads up.[Beer]

There is no CBI check on NFA items if you build one yourself useing a form 1 when you get the paper work back build away. On a form 4 from a dealer you still have to do a 4473 however there is no insta-check. You just fill out the 4473 and walk out the door.

[DOC]

There is no CBI check on NFA items if you build one yourself useing a form 1 when you get the paper work back build away. On a form 4 from a dealer you still have to do a 4473 however there is no insta-check. You just fill out the 4473 and walk out the door.
How do they do a check on a trust?

What is a form one again?

[Paradude54]

A Form 1 is the form used if you want to build your own SBR, SBS, or suppressor.

As for multiple calibers you can list several on the form and have one lower that happens to be 2 or 7 or whatever number of calibers. As far as I know there isn't a limit, but I could be wrong on that. Of course you might run out of space on the form if you get too crazy!

I'm confused about your barrel length question though.

[gunhound]

If you go the trust route, only you and the ATF will know you have it (except those you tell)

You can also transfer a factory SBR - Colt, RRA, etc or you can transfer an SBR that has already been made by someone else on a form 4.
It would not have to be engraved since its already registered as an NFA firearm....Still $200 and you have to go through a C3 dealer......

There is a gray area of having more uppers than lowers -
If you have 3 uppers less than 16" and only own 1 lower that is a registered SBR, you should be fine per ATF regs.

However, if you have an additional 2 stripped lowers and no uppers longer than 16", than it can be construed as constructive intent, meaning you have the means to assemble an illegal NFA firearm.
Not good.

[Ridge]

Thanks for all the info....

Ridge, did you end up going the Trust route? If so shoot me a pm on the details if you don't mind.

-J

I havent done it yet...here is a link with a step by step walkthrough on creating the trust in Quicken...

http://www.86th.org/?id=nfa-trust

And a place to create your Form1, filled out in full, in pdf....

http://www.titleii.com/Forms.htm

[xjtwo]

[quote=Paradude54;101559

I'm confused about your barrel length question though.[/quote]

Basically, I was wanting to know that if I filled out the Form for say a 10.5" Bbl and decided I wanted to go with a 7" Bbl later would I be ok.

Or does it work like putting a minimum of 7" Bbl even though I would have a 10.5" Bbl just so I have the option?

I've read somewhere that as long as you can return the rifle to its original state as listed on the Form you can go up or down in barrel length, but I'm not certain on this.

Thanks again to all on this..........

J

[RYAN50BMG]

Bbl length on an SBR is no big deal. Just put down what ever upper you have for it. An SBR is an SBR, they don't care if it's 7 or 10 or 12 inches. As far as a trust goes, you live in El Paso county, just go to the Sheriff's office and get a sign off, no big deal.

[Paradude54]

The ATF can get pretty weird when it comes to paperwork and rules at times, so I'm not so sure that I'd say that barrel length doesn't matter. There's a place on the form for both barrel length and overall length. Since it's a big no/no to p**s of the ATF I'd ask them that question before I assumed anything.

[HunterCO]

Bbl length on an SBR is no big deal. Just put down what ever upper you have for it. An SBR is an SBR, they don't care if it's 7 or 10 or 12 inches. As far as a trust goes, you live in El Paso county, just go to the Sheriff's office and get a sign off, no big deal.

+1 to what Ryan said it does not matter just put what ever upper you have on the form and call it good. Do not list multiple length uppers on the form many times they will kick it back.

[Ridge]

What you do is put down the smallest you would go (just put down 7.5") and you are good to go for any length longer than that as well...

[gunhound]

I've read somewhere that as long as you can return the rifle to its original state as listed on the Form you can go up or down in barrel length, but I'm not certain on this.

J

This is the consensus on other boards as well....
If you put down 7.5, you can put on any other length you want, but you should keep the 7.5 upper to reconfigure it to what you initially made....just my .02

[xjtwo]

OK, filling out the Form I right now

On 4a do I write:
Rock River Arms
Colona, IL

or include Cal. 5.56mm LAR-15

On 4c (Caliber) should I write multi 5.56/9mm or just pick one?

On 4e and 4f lengths do you include the flash suppressor in total length?

Bbl length is 10.5 and the overall is 29" does that sound about right?

[Ridge]

For 4a, you will want to put in RRA and their full address

For caliber, if you plan to use multiple calibers, just put multi

4e/4f, you will do from the bolt face when locked closed to the end of the barrel minus the flash supressor. So you will put 10.5"

I dont have an SBR AR, so I dont know the overall length...

[HunterCO]

OK, filling out the Form I right now

On 4a do I write:
Rock River Arms
Colona, IL

or include Cal. 5.56mm LAR-15

You put "your" name and address you are the manufacturer.
In other words if your name is billy bob and you live at 1234 coar15 lane in Littleton CO

You would put

"Billy Bob
1234 coar15 lane
Littleton CO 80123"



On 4c (Caliber) should I write multi 5.56/9mm or just pick one?

It does not matter pick the caliber it is as of right now.



On 4e and 4f lengths do you include the flash suppressor in total length?

ATF does not consider the flash hider to be part of the barrel unless it is permanently attached. List the length of the barrel you are going to put on it if it's 10.5 then put that. As for over all length that is measured with the stock fully extended.



Bbl length is 10.5 and the overall is 29" does that sound about right?

I have a 11.5" upper and the over all length is 29.5" with a car stock so your close enough.

Tim

[xjtwo]

OK, thanks for all the info......one more question.

I go tomorrow for my CCW stuff and was thinking about taking my From 1's down to have them taken care of. Do I need to have prints and photos done first?

Thanks,
J

[sniper7]

OK, thanks for all the info......one more question.

I go tomorrow for my CCW stuff and was thinking about taking my From 1's down to have them taken care of. Do I need to have prints and photos done first?

Thanks,
J

Depends on the place but most of them will do your prints right there...maybe $5-10 a card.

photos can be done at the LEO office as well.

There should be a guideline on the ATF website for photos.

[HunterCO]

OK, thanks for all the info......one more question.

I go tomorrow for my CCW stuff and was thinking about taking my From 1's down to have them taken care of. Do I need to have prints and photos done first?

Thanks,
J

All you need is your duplicate form 1's the sheriff does not need fingerprints or passport photos that is for ATF.

However I would get your prints done while your there take them home with you and your good to go. When you get your paper work back from the sheriff your ready to mail to ATF. I will also add you need the ATF specific fingerprint cards the sheriffs department cards will not work.

Photos I don't know of a single sheriffs department that will do passport photos if I am wrong someone please correct me. That being said you can go to places like walgreens and get passport photos cheap.

Tim

[xjtwo]

Called the Sheriffs office this morning to confirm my appt and asked if I could bring the From I down at the same time. They said I need to have all the photos & prints done prior.....they said they could do the prints but I'd have to white out the CBI and put the proper infor for the ATF.
My thoughts are they (ATF) might kick it back if there is something that has been white out'd on the cards?
Where can I get the proper cards for prints?

-J

[Ridge]

You can order them from the ATF. Would take a week or two to arrive, though...

[xjtwo]

Got back from the Sheriffs office...

They gave me two sets of prints and said to call the ATF to find out what ORI number to put on the cards. They said they have done this in the past and have not gotten any kick-backs so we'll see what happens.

I just need to have photos taken then I can drop off my paperwork........

-J

[Ridge]

Nice. I know Walgreens does the photos for like $5 or somethin...I got my passport photo through em...

[HunterCO]

I don't know why they would ask for your photos as they don't need them. Jefferson county has never required me to sbmit forms with a passport photo. However they can make any rule they wish if you want them to sign.

That being said this is the ORI you need to put on your cards.

DCATF0100
ATF/FIREARMS & EXPLO DIV
WASHINGON, DC

[xjtwo]

Cool thanks for the info..........Time to go to Walgreens!

[RYAN50BMG]

This is the Deal for El Paso Co. Sheriff sign off. The forms must be complete to include photos, two complete fingerprint cards, and your CITIZENSHIP CERTIFICATION form. I put it all in a manila folder with my name, ATF FORM 4, and phone # on the front. This is what you need to do. Call Alan at Machinegun Tours (his info is on this board) and ask him to send you some cards and a Citizen Certification form. I have a form 4 at the S.O. right now and the new ORI is different than in HunterCO,s post. Also, I use Chapter One for my prints and photos.They charge 25$ for two cards and two photos. They are on the SE corner of Nevada and Colorado, behind the Vectra Bank Drive-up. FYI, this is my eleventh sign-off thru EPSO, so I know the deal.

[HunterCO]

Ryan by all means please post the new ORI number.

[RYAN50BMG]

I would but I don't have the cards. When I get them back I will. Besides, I was to busy looking at the "Why you need it" section where it say's "Because Chicks dig it!!".

[WillysWagon]

Here's the ORI addy I sent my Form 1's into.
EPSO said it was the correct address.

WVATF0800
ATF-NFA BRANCH
MARTINSBURG, WV

I just sent them in late Dec and then another form 4 earlier this month, so I've still got a long wait.
ymmv,
Kyle

[WillysWagon]

FYI, this is my eleventh sign-off thru EPSO, so I know the deal.

Ryan,

You're a stamp collecting fiend, keep up the good work [Beer]

[HunterCO]

The wonderful world of NFA they have to keep changing things and each agency makes up there own rules. Jeffco only needs my forms no passport photos, no fingerprint cards or citizen ship form. I just drop my filled out forms off and the sheriff signs them and mails them back to me.

My fingerprint cards can't be a year old and ATF changes the ORI. [Bang]

[RYAN50BMG]

Oh Yeah, If you put "Because Chicks dig it" on the back, the S.O. will NOT sign it.

[lcambre]

The El Paso Co. Sheriffs office just added a new form last week. When I went in today with some form 4s I had to fill in the following:
name
current address
prior address if less than ten years
current employer
prior employer if less than ten years
Items that you own on a form four or one.

Louis

[xjtwo]

Got everything ready, prints, photos, and From I.......am I missing anything?

They said I could just write in the ORI info on the print cards, that sound right to you guys?

Thanks,
J

[WillysWagon]

Got everything ready, prints, photos, and From I.......am I missing anything?

They said I could just write in the ORI info on the print cards, that sound right to you guys?

Thanks,
J

Your missing 'Citizenship Certification'. Make sure you have 2 copies of everything.

[xjtwo]

Where can I get the citizenship cert from?

Emailed Hasher from the board for some info............

-J

[the_man]

Go to the ATF web site

http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f533020.pdf

[sniper7]

pretty sure citizen certification forms are not necessary. they help but not required any more.

[mtechgunman]

this is a very informative post on ar15.com by a moderator (tony_k) over on ar15.com in the general class III forum.




Originally Posted By turkeysandwich:
When I filled out my form 1 I had set the caliber to multi in an event to cover myself if changing calibers, however I was told that the sbr must be registered under a specific caliber so I chose 5.56. I also was told that since my POF lower was stamped multi that I must have 5.56MM engraved with the other NFA markings. I know I am able to own multiple uppers for my sbr, but can I use a .22lr conversion kit on my 7.5" upper or would this be in violation being the form 1 was for a 5.56MM?

Man, I have got to put this on a save string, because it comes up way too often:

A Form 1 is not an application to just register an NFA item –– it is an application to make and register a new NFA firearm.

When you register a car, it has a gross vehicle weight, number of cylinders, and a color. That's how it was made.

Once you register a vehicle, you legally can swap the 6-cyl for a V8, changing the gross vehicle weight, and repaint the white car red or black. All perfectly legal.

Similarly, a Form 1 wants to know the configuration at the moment you make it. Once it is made, you can swap the 5.56 upper for a 9mm or .22RF, a 7.5" barrel for an 11", etc.

The Form 1 requirement is how it will be initially made. Once it has been made, you can change it to whatever you want, but you need to pick one specific way it will be initially assembled.

You can't register a new Camaro as "weight: N/A, cylinders: multi; color: variable." Ya gotta pick specifics. But once your Camaro is registered, there is no law restricting the changes you make ... and the same holds true for an SBR.


here is a link to the thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=275563

[HunterCO]

this is a very informative post on ar15.com by a moderator (tony_k) over on ar15.com in the general class III forum.

[b]


here is a link to the thread:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=275563 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=275563)

Good post TK is one of the few people left on that site that are good people.

What he said is fact and that is the best part left of that site.

[xjtwo]

Does this look like the right ORI#CO-ATF-0400 for Colorado Springs? I drug my feet but am planning on turning the paperwork in this week.

[xjtwo]

CO-ATF-0400 look like the right ORI number for Colorado Springs.....anybody?

[HunterCO]

Willyswagon gave you the most recent ORI info it has nothing to do with CO springs.

WVATF0800
ATF-NFA BRANCH
MARTINSBURG, WV

[xjtwo]

Oh man, I must have over looked that info...thanks Hunter

[xjtwo]

Ok, call me a slacker.....

I still haven't turned in any paperwork, I have it all got it signed off but I just never got around to sending it in.

Question now is, do I need to get it done again or can I send it in with March 09 dates?

Thanks....