My professor at it again......

[UrbanWolf]

Direct quote: "As of today Colorado fininally joined the states that acted agaist gun violence and tyranny of gun wielding organizations."

[ray1970]

Who was it that recommended pissing or throwing up on an attacker?

I think maybe I would have used that technique on your professor.

[Ronin13]

Don't worry- your professor will be safe, because he/she can always dial 911 and the police will arrive on time... .000001% of the time.

[mrghost]

Direct quote: "As of today Colorado fininally joined the states that acted agaist gun violence and tyranny of gun wielding organizations."

I don't think I could sit quietly upon hearing that drivel.

[BPTactical]

I would explain to the fucking tool bag that violence is the action of an individual, not an object.
And introduce him to the world of ignorant bastards, hand him a mirror.

And you PAID for this "education"??

[omegalopez]

I would have kick him in the nuts and walked out.

[XXFattyHunterXX]

Dude I wish I was in your class, I would tell those mother fuckers how my country don't allow guns but people still kill, somehow.

[Great-Kazoo]

You now need to go over the instructors head to higher ups. While free speech is allowed, injecting politics to a study course not aligned with said beliefs is outside the class format.

[wctriumph]

Did you respond? Or just sit there and take it?

[hatidua]

Just get through it, get the grade, and move on. You won't convince that professor to your way of thinking any sooner than they will convince you of theirs.

[HoneyBadger]

Direct quote: "As of today Colorado fininally joined the states that acted agaist gun violence and tyranny of gun wielding organizations."


I will send you $10 on paypal if you post a video of yourself standing up in class and saying this to your professor: "You, sir, are a fucking idiot." You may then optionally follow it up with all sorts of factual evidence such as higher gun crime rates in Chicago and New York, or the recent CDC study mandated by Obama that actually shows that higher number of legally owned guns actually LOWERS crime rates.. Have some fun with it and post a video.

[omegalopez]

I'll add $10 to that.


I will send you $10 on paypal if you post a video of yourself standing up in class and saying this to your professor: "You, sir, are a fucking idiot."

[Gcompact30]

What course are you taking from this Professor?


Direct quote: "As of today Colorado fininally joined the states that acted agaist gun violence and tyranny of gun wielding organizations."

[james_bond_007]

Don't fight it. He's entitled to his opinion.
[Sarcasm2]
You need to show your support, with a gift for him, perhaps:

FRONT:
30947

BACK:
30949
or
http://i1.cpcache.com/product/133065573/gun_free_zone_bloody_womens_dark_tshirt.jpg?color= Black&height=460&width=460&qv=90
or

http://rlv.zcache.com/anti_gun_people_t_shirt-rb352dcc8ac0a4e46b880c07829d1a329_8041k_512.jpg

[BPTactical]

What course are you taking from this Professor?

Liberal Philosophy

[RblDiver]

I could loan you my Magpul hat I just bought to wear for a day!

[hatidua]

Back when I was in college, I was the sort that confronted instructors on this sort of thing and all it does is egg them on and allow them a platform to further push their thoughts on the class. The thing they want more than anything is for someone to disagree with them and argue the point. Ignore the statement, it irritates them more than any alternative action.

[eneranch]

Ignore the statement, it irritates them more than any alternative action.

Let the Prof have his day; then catch him in the parking lot & tell him one-on-one what YOUR opinion is.

[TFOGGER]

Seriously, I would file a formal complaint with the Dean..

[rshives]

Wait until August first and compare the "violence" rates between June and July.

[Gcompact30]

LMFAO


Liberal Philosophy

[Ronin13]

Just get through it, get the grade, and move on. You won't convince that professor to your way of thinking any sooner than they will convince you of theirs.
Regardless, he cannot interject his opinion and present it as fact for the class... he's in a position where his word can be taken to be proven fact and the influence a professor has is viewed as greater than most, this would be an abuse of that position and if it were me in that class I'd report it.

[JMBD2112]

You now need to go over the instructors head to higher ups. While free speech is allowed, injecting politics to a study course not aligned with said beliefs is outside the class format.

Exactly, unprofessional

[Clint45]

Let the Prof have his day; then catch him in the parking lot & tell him one-on-one what YOUR opinion is.

DO NOT do this. He will probably file a complaint that you "threatened" him (because he "felt" threatened) and may even lie about what you said and did. At the very least this could result in expulsion and a ban from being on campus. It could also involve arrest and criminal charges. His word against yours . . . unless it is filmed.

[BuffCyclist]

DO NOT do this. He will probably file a complaint that you "threatened" him (because he "felt" threatened) and may even lie about what you said and did. At the very least this could result in expulsion and a ban from being on campus. It could also involve arrest and criminal charges. His word against yours . . . unless it is filmed.

This!

If I were you, file a complaint with the dean. If the dean doesn't do anything or get back to you, go to the provost.

[Bailey Guns]

I'd be polite with him, explain how and why my position differs from his, explain that I believe in protecting myself with a firearm, and let him know that I always carry...even in class. I don't normally advertise that I carry concealed but I'd make an exception just because he'd probably piss himself every time he thinks about it.

[bellavite1]

I'll add $10 to that.

I'll add my $10!

[spqrzilla]

Don't encourage him. He just needs to get the grade and move on.

[Eggysrun]

Who's your teacher? Which class? Wondering if he/she is at frcc. I work at veteran services on campus, would be nice to redirect them from this knucklehead lol

[newracer]

You now need to go over the instructors head to higher ups. While free speech is allowed, injecting politics to a study course not aligned with said beliefs is outside the class format.

This. If it is not relevant to the course you need to file a complaint.

[Circuits]

Finish the class, get the grade. Ream his ass on the evaluation.

Just don't do it where the this prof's small-minded pettiness can directly affect your academic progress.

[UrbanWolf]

I will send you $10 on paypal if you post a video of yourself standing up in class and saying this to your professor: "You, sir, are a fucking idiot." You may then optionally follow it up with all sorts of factual evidence such as higher gun crime rates in Chicago and New York, or the recent CDC study mandated by Obama that actually shows that higher number of legally owned guns actually LOWERS crime rates.. Have some fun with it and post a video.

I can try that the last day of class, but for now he got 3 papers of mine need to be graded.

[UrbanWolf]

A little bit of background on him, he mentioned he was rised in a military family, his dad was a officer in the Ranger. Grandpa, Great grandpa also in the military. But he hated "the blind patriotism and indoctrination of Natinalism" in his family, he also disliked his father's passion about guns, he think the US military do nothing but establishing failed "dictator" like Ngo Dinh Diem and the Shah. Eventually he broke the family tradition of servicemen and went to a small liberal art school and became a professor/journalist.

After the day he went over this, the Marine guy started skipping class every chance he got.....

[Ronin13]

When did we get to this point? Where if you disagree with a teacher on their opinion you have to fear reprisal and a failing grade? Um excuse me, am I the only one here this royally pissed about this? Dissenting views are silenced? What is this? 1936 Germany? 1960's USSR? Bullshit. This crap needs to stop yesterday! This is one of the reasons I'm not going back to school, despite having the G.I. Bill, I'm not going to line the pockets of these trolls... If this happened to me I'd be tearing that entire school down, brick by brick, lawsuit by lawsuit. I can't believe this BS is happening here.

[Madeinhb]

I've had this back in California. A teacher said the same liberal shit. Asked if anyone disagreed. I raised my hand. He asked well prove me wrong. I looked at him and said no matter what i say, ill never be able to prove you wrong. You're a liberal and don't see the real world as it is. You see it as you how you want it to be. Nothing I say can change that. He then looked at me and said, well that's because there are no facts on your side. I said, you asked for it, and went off for 15 min stating fact after fact. At end I said no please provide facts to me on how I'm wrong. Oh wait you can't, liberals don't have facts. Then sat back as most of class clapped.

[Kraven251]

A little bit of background on him, he mentioned he was rised in a military family, his dad was a officer in the Ranger. Grandpa, Great grandpa also in the military. But he hated "the blind patriotism and indoctrination of Natinalism" in his family, he also disliked his father's passion about guns, he think the US military do nothing but establishing failed "dictator" like Ngo Dinh Diem and the Shah. Eventually he broke the family tradition of servicemen and went to a small liberal art school and became a professor/journalist.

After the day he went over this, the Marine guy started skipping class every chance he got.....

I am fairly sure I would have started tailoring my attire for that class to specifically piss him off. I also would have made sure my papers were rock solid, and if he dinged me for anything less than shotty work file a discrimination complaint against him.

Technically gun owners are a minority, if we are being discriminated against we should be able to push that issue.

[RblDiver]

Who's your teacher? Which class? Wondering if he/she is at frcc. I work at veteran services on campus, would be nice to redirect them from this knucklehead lol

I think he's at CSU, not FRCC.

[wreave]

If you can say this accurately, I'd start off by saying, "As a concealed carry permit holder, I believe that being discretely armed in public is not just the right, but the responsibility of a man such as myself who believes in protecting himself and knows that the average 911 response time is over ten minutes (16+ in Denver)." Bet the professor shits his pants.

[wreave]

PS I don't normally advocate advertising CCW status, but in this case would make an exception.

[Mick-Boy]

Cooperate and graduate.

Let's face it; You're not there for an education, you're there for a piece of paper. If you have any life experience at all, you won't get an "education" out of most degrees (unless you're taking hard sciences or engineering courses). Just keep your mouth shut, take your A and drive on.

[th3w01f]

At least give us the school and name so we can make sure we're never involved in the same situation. Maybe I'll send him a FB friend request to congratulate him on the work he's doing. :)

[muddywings]

Get your grade and move on. If you really feel like you need to say something, do it after you have your grade/graduated. This might sound like you are backing down from a fight but there are times to voice your opinions and be heard and times fly under the radar. People like that will have no moral objection to sinking you and he will win. Beat him to the punch by getting your A and moving on with life. If it makes you feel better, right a paper on why you think he is an assclown and wrong. Then sit on it until you have graduated. If you still feel like you should tell him where he can shove his opinions, then mail it to him.
Good luck!

[SA Friday]

Do what I did. Get up and walk out of the class and go back after 5 minutes. If they ask why you are leaving, tell them you will return when they are finished going full retard and influencing young minds with it.

[Eggysrun]

We had a department head substitute for one of my teachers last semester for a class. When she asked the class if we knew what to do if there was an active shooter my response of "shoot back" wasn't well received. She went on a rant about how uncomfortable she felt about students being allowed to arm themselves and would "rather die than have to shoot someone".

I didn't even have to reply to her comments cause the rest of the class ripped her a new one.

Some people like to act all anti-gun infront of an audience, but when shit hits the fan like any atheist they'll be praying to god in that foxhole too wether they believe it or not.

[Ronin13]

Cooperate and graduate.

Let's face it; You're not there for an education, you're there for a piece of paper. If you have any life experience at all, you won't get an "education" out of most degrees (unless you're taking hard sciences or engineering courses). Just keep your mouth shut, take your A and drive on.


Get your grade and move on. If you really feel like you need to say something, do it after you have your grade/graduated. This might sound like you are backing down from a fight but there are times to voice your opinions and be heard and times fly under the radar. People like that will have no moral objection to sinking you and he will win. Beat him to the punch by getting your A and moving on with life. If it makes you feel better, right a paper on why you think he is an assclown and wrong. Then sit on it until you have graduated. If you still feel like you should tell him where he can shove his opinions, then mail it to him.
Good luck!
This is the problem. So let this hack keep "teaching" this garbage, some folks are in college to get an education and they don't know much about guns, laws, or even the "real world" so they take an older, "wiser" and thoroughly "educated" persons opinion as fact and then the problem festers and spreads like a cancer. The more people who don't go out and look at the facts behind guns in America because they simply take a professor's word for it, the worse off this country will get. Then one day we all wake up and 70+% of the country is in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment and turning us into Australia. I say stand the hell up, tell the school that you don't approve of your money going to pay someone to preach against basic Constitutional rights, nip this bullshit in the bud!

Or don't... just let it continue and we'll let the government take good care of us when we're all disarmed. [hahhah-no]

[Mick-Boy]

Go take a couple of classes, invest months of time into it and then tell me about getting into pissing contests with your professors. I've been down that road Ronin. There is a high likelihood that there will be cost involved and very little likelihood of benefit.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Finish the class, get the grade. Ream his ass on the evaluation.

Just don't do it where the this prof's small-minded pettiness can directly affect your academic progress.

^^ This. You're in a no-win situation if you confront him directly. Instead, post the facts on campus kiosks as informational flyers and ding him for substituting his opinion for fact in the course evaluations.

[hurley842002]

"rather die than have to shoot someone".

Wow, this is a bigger problem than I thought. My buddies wife is a liberal as well as a k-12 teacher, she said something similar "I'd rather let a home intruder have his way with me than to kill him". She got quiet when I threw her future children into the mix....

[MrPrena]

This is why I didn't take too many social science classes.
There are retarded instructors/professors out there in every subject.
Usually, they are average joe grad student instructors or adjunct/visiting professors.

I did take one poli sci classes to learn how these poli analysts calculate/analyze samples.
Even that poli sci class NEVER talked about bias bull crap.

[Mick-Boy]

For me it was an international relations class (I've been slowly working towards a degree through Penn State). There was a question on a test (covering conflict resolution) that was worded (I shit you not) : Based on your knowledge of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which method of conflict resolution do you believe is most likely to succeed and why?

Now, from where I'm sitting, this is impossible to get wrong. It's asking an opinion question based on subjective knowledge.

I got it wrong. Not partial credit. Wrong. I emailed the prof to question the grading and ended up exchanging several emails with her. She cited her evidence, I cited mine. In the end her perspective was that my perspective was wrong. Nothing to be done about it. I ended with a B in the class (thank god for multiple choice) but I knew that I was going to get dinged on anything written.

I kept the email string and forwarded it to her department head along with a note explaining my issues with the way it was handled. I didn't hear a peep in response.

Unfortunately a lot of places have decided that a four year degree is required as a minimum qualification. You can accept it or not but if you're there to get a degree, don't get distracted by the little shit. Keep your eyes on the prize.

[Ronin13]

Go take a couple of classes, invest months of time into it and then tell me about getting into pissing contests with your professors. I've been down that road Ronin. There is a high likelihood that there will be cost involved and very little likelihood of benefit.
I didn't say get into a pissing match with your professor. I said nip this in the bud- first let him know that you don't appreciate his deviation from the course material, you don't think the classroom is where his preachy opinion belongs, and that you would be better off actually learning what the class is supposed to be covering. Tactfully of course. Otherwise- send it up the chain. He has a boss, go to them with the complaints that the professor is interjecting unrelated, non-factual opinion into the course. Someone should have integrity and objectivity somewhere up the chain- if not, well, time to change schools after filing a formal complaint with whoever is in charge of that school.

[Mick-Boy]

You have a very idealistic world view.

[MrPrena]

At least TUITUION RECEIVING SCHOOLS has to STOP THIS SHIT IMMEDIATELY.
Although K-12 public school is run by tax $, at least state run public universities or city run colleges are collecting tuition from their students.

If I wanted to get a FREE tuition and get a good brain washing, I would've went to koo koo Moonies University.
They own more than few.

[muddywings]

Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious.
also, you can't teach an old dog new tricks.

[Ronin13]

You have a very idealistic world view.
Better than a cynical "nothing can be done here" world view. Can't fault me for wanting to leave a better place for my children- one where they're not subject to socialist indoctrination.

[UrbanWolf]

Wow, this is a bigger problem than I thought. My buddies wife is a liberal as well as a k-12 teacher, she said something similar "I'd rather let a home intruder have his way with me than to kill him". She got quiet when I threw her future children into the mix....

I wonder what her hubby think of that.

[GilpinGuy]

Complain formally to dept. head or dean, or whoever takes those complaints, that you feel that the professor is deviating from the coarse material and that you don't feel that your time (and $) is being well spent. Get it all in writting. If you get the run around or just get blown off, contact Mike Rosen and see if you can get something on the air with him. It's fun when he gets these weenies on the air trying to defend themselves.

Keep your iPhone or tape recorder running in class too. That'll provide some good material.

[Irving]

Cooperate and graduate.

Let's face it; You're not there for an education, you're there for a piece of paper. If you have any life experience at all, you won't get an "education" out of most degrees (unless you're taking hard sciences or engineering courses). Just keep your mouth shut, take your A and drive on.

Mick-boy with the short and sweet wisdom once again.

[Irving]

Get your grade and move on. If you really feel like you need to say something, do it after you have your grade/graduated.

This too. I take the time to explain why I won't be giving them a single cent of my money, every time they hit me up for it.

[mb504]

It would be interesting to remind him the Concealed Carry has been legal on the CSU campus and in his classes since 2003.

It's effect on crime on campus even if it can't be proved to be a deterrent sure hasn't increased it.

30957
30959

[Aloha_Shooter]

It would be interesting to remind him the Concealed Carry has been legal on the CSU campus and in his classes since 2003.

It's effect on crime on campus even if it can't be proved to be a deterrent sure hasn't increased it.

30957
30959

As I said before, there's no point in arguing this with the prof in question but this is an excellent set of graphs to post all over campus on kiosks and bulletin boards.

[sniper7]

You paid money for a grade and a piece of paper. Real education is on the job.

Both ways are well and just. Make a point and say something or sit back and let the closed minded liberal spew his vial. It won't affect you and he won't be affected as he obviously broke off ties from hip military family. Where you can make a difference is the other students in the class. Give them an alternative perspective. If you are going to say something it needs to happen in class on front of everyone. Short if that a private one on one is a waste of your breath

[UrbanWolf]

It would be interesting to remind him the Concealed Carry has been legal on the CSU campus and in his classes since 2003.

It's effect on crime on campus even if it can't be proved to be a deterrent sure hasn't increased it.

30957
30959

Do you have the official site for this? I've been trying to show this to people, but nothing pop up on google.

[USAFGopherMike]

I'd rather prevent a moron like this from poisoning the minds of their students. Letting the poison spread just produces more of them. Stop it at it's source asap. Video/record this professor straying from the facts. Definitely file a complain and tell the Dean you want a response or that you'll take the recording to the press and let them know that he/she did nothing when confronted with the evidence. Those that mention a bachelors degree as just a piece of paper and the bare minimum, I couldn't agree more with you. It's a checked box to see if you'll put in the effort. That said, if it's just a piece of paper, why care what's written on it, ie a B vs an A in some stupid class. There is no price that can be put on freedom, but there's always a cost for ignoring those that try to suppress it.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Just get through it, get the grade, and move on. You won't convince that professor to your way of thinking any sooner than they will convince you of theirs.

This.


Back when I was in college, I was the sort that confronted instructors on this sort of thing and all it does is egg them on and allow them a platform to further push their thoughts on the class. The thing they want more than anything is for someone to disagree with them and argue the point. Ignore the statement, it irritates them more than any alternative action.

This again.


Seriously, I would file a formal complaint with the Dean..

Definitely not this.


Cooperate and graduate.

Let's face it; You're not there for an education, you're there for a piece of paper. If you have any life experience at all, you won't get an "education" out of most degrees (unless you're taking hard sciences or engineering courses). Just keep your mouth shut, take your A and drive on.

This again.


It is very idealistic and naive to talk about filing complaints and getting things on professors' records, etc, etc. What you really do is make yourself stand out in a non-academic way. Do you want the grade or do you want to make the stand? Maybe it is the latter, and I applaud that - but as you go to apply for your internship / grad school / job in something other than a social science related thing, it'll be wondered why you have straight As except for [whatever]. And you won't get to explain yourself in all likelihood, you'll be competing with someone who did straights As exclusively (or whatever). If you don't want these kinds of professors, go to Hillsdale College or don't take these courses. In the grand scheme of your life, it just doesn't matter. You won't change their opinion, you won't put a black mark on their record - if anything you'll embolden some liberal professor and dean on academic freedom, etc, and it is their freedom, not yours.

That's my $0.02. I've played this game several times around.

[kawiracer14]

You're going to complain to the liberal dean that the liberal professor is telling his mostly liberal students that guns are evil? Guess what, you're going to have to listen to a lot of shit you don't like to hear in life and you're going to have to deal with it. What if you work somewhere and you really enjoy the job but your boss is a dirty lib and tells you that guns are evil. You can be quiet and mostly enjoy your job except for when he or she runs their mouth, or you can make a scene and risk losing the job. Sometimes it ain't worth it...

[Ronin13]

Sometimes it ain't worth it...
My question is: When is it worth it? So many said "it ain't worth it" in the 1760's and 1770's... so many said "it ain't worth it" in the 1930's. So many said "it ain't worth it" in April of 1994. So I ask again, when is it worth it? Surely I hope it's worth it well before you realize that one day your not speaking out against this indoctrination and tyranny now won't do much of anything.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

My question is: When is it worth it? So many said "it ain't worth it" in the 1760's and 1770's... so many said "it ain't worth it" in the 1930's. So many said "it ain't worth it" in April of 1994. So I ask again, when is it worth it? Surely I hope it's worth it well before you realize that one day your not speaking out against this indoctrination and tyranny now won't do much of anything.

My answer for my own life only - when the philosophy 202 professor starts making real policy. Do you argue with everyone who disagrees with your POV? How about everyone in a position of power or everyone who has something you need?

By the time you've reached this level in education, you [should] have formed your own opinions. If you haven't, you're likely unprincipled enough that you'll lurch from idea to idea based on how pretty of a package that message came wrapped in. In which case, sadly, it doesn't really matter. The next professor may just wipe that all away with a new set of ideals. If you have your own opinions and principals, you stand on them, take the grade and move on to where you can make a real difference in your life, because "winning" an argument in a classroom but failing the class is unlikely to be that difference. $0.02

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Second thought to this - you signed up for THEIR class. Not the other way around. You are paying them to teach you something, or, to check a box on a list of pre-requisites. Either way, you know what you are getting yourself into.

[Ronin13]

My answer for my own life only - when the philosophy 202 professor starts making real policy. Do you argue with everyone who disagrees with your POV? How about everyone in a position of power or everyone who has something you need?

By the time you've reached this level in education, you [should] have formed your own opinions. If you haven't, you're likely unprincipled enough that you'll lurch from idea to idea based on how pretty of a package that message came wrapped in. In which case, sadly, it doesn't really matter. The next professor may just wipe that all away with a new set of ideals. If you have your own opinions and principals, you stand on them, take the grade and move on to where you can make a real difference in your life, because "winning" an argument in a classroom but failing the class is unlikely to be that difference. $0.02
Again, this speaks to not solving the problem- indoctrination. Sure, you should have formed your own opinions, but lets look at the majority of folks in college, 18-21, were you culturally and politically "awake" at 18? I know I sure wasn't nearly as much as I am now. Sure back then I voted conservative, but that was because my parents made sure my public education was augmented with their tidbits of wisdom that I wasn't taught in school. But I'm not most kids. So we just let these "teachers" continue to spew this rhetoric to young impressionable minds? Just take the grade, move on, and we are surprised by the majority of American youth voting for Socialist Kings? Am I the only one who gives a shit about this dangerous road we're moving down at a higher and higher rate of speed? Am I the only one who notices that dangerous pit in the distance that we seem to be speeding toward?

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Again, this speaks to not solving the problem- indoctrination. Sure, you should have formed your own opinions, but lets look at the majority of folks in college, 18-21, were you culturally and politically "awake" at 18? I know I sure wasn't nearly as much as I am now. Sure back then I voted conservative, but that was because my parents made sure my public education was augmented with their tidbits of wisdom that I wasn't taught in school. But I'm not most kids. So we just let these "teachers" continue to spew this rhetoric to young impressionable minds? Just take the grade, move on, and we are surprised by the majority of American youth voting for Socialist Kings? Am I the only one who gives a shit about this dangerous road we're moving down at a higher and higher rate of speed? Am I the only one who notices that dangerous pit in the distance that we seem to be speeding toward?

This begs the question of whether you have placed the blame correctly. Is it the parents who have neglected this duty, or should the individuals in the schools be forced to offer up no political thought? Or the political thought YOU agree with? And who gets to decide that? And how popular is it when "all points of view must be taught" are applied in places like evolutionary biology or religious studies?
What would your solution be?


It seems to me the variety of youth are becoming increasingly Libertarian, but that's just my own observation. No more valid than assuming the Colorado public thinks the way the Colorado AR15 forum thinks.

[RblDiver]

I tend to think along the lines of "Evil will only triumph when good men do nothing."

At that age, I was a lot less engaging than I am now. Had I taken a course with a vocal prof at that age, I probably would have just fumed too, but now about 7 years later I'd be willing to challenge the professor. By challenge, I mean present reasonable counterarguments, not "You're a stupid moron Professor Knowitall."

Nobody wants to be the first. I'm sure that there are more in that classroom that agree with a conservative point of view, but when noone else speaks up they think that they must be the only ones thinking it. If one person has the courage to speak up, this'll encourage more discussion and facilitate learning.

I would say that documenting everything is a good start. If you think you're in jeopardy of losing grades, keep before and after, document what you say/when/how, and if need be present your argument to the appropriate levels.

If we don't speak out now, then this just emboldens the other side to make even further claims, and make laws like the ones that went into effect yesterday. But if we speak out, this may help bring more to our side and prevent stupidity from spreading (or at least spreading as quickly).

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

At that age, I was a lot less engaging than I am now. Had I taken a course with a vocal prof at that age, I probably would have just fumed too, but now about 7 years later I'd be willing to challenge the professor. By challenge, I mean present reasonable counterarguments, not "You're a stupid moron Professor Knowitall."

Nobody wants to be the first. I'm sure that there are more in that classroom that agree with a conservative point of view, but when noone else speaks up they think that they must be the only ones thinking it. If one person has the courage to speak up, this'll encourage more discussion and facilitate learning.


I can't disagree with any of this, and I might even do the same depending on who it is. It is obvious to all the students who the professors are that are willing to engage in real and constructive debate and which ones just like their pulpit and can't be presented with ideas opposite their own. OTOH, I took those sort of classes because I had to. Whatever I was interested in, I'd do all the readings and more, but if i wasn't - just tell me the bare minimum, but let's not make the bare minimum bigger with a lot of classroom discussion. $0.02


But the part about evil - my own experience is that in academia, these folks are so disconnected with reality that they aren't really evil. There is Washington DC-disconnected-from-reality who I'd say are more evil and interested in absolute power and control, and there are academics-disconnected-from-reality who have never served in the armed forces, seen evil around the world, worked as an emergency worker, ran a business, sold something, etc, etc who are simply true believers and really think folks like Marx or Woodrow Wilson were really on the right track but executed incorrectly and done better, it would work. You won't convince them, but you'll frustrate yourself. $0.02

[Ronin13]

This begs the question of whether you have placed the blame correctly. Is it the parents who have neglected this duty, or should the individuals in the schools be forced to offer up no political thought? Or the political thought YOU agree with? And who gets to decide that? And how popular is it when "all points of view must be taught" are applied in places like evolutionary biology or religious studies?
What would your solution be?


It seems to me the variety of youth are becoming increasingly Libertarian, but that's just my own observation. No more valid than assuming the Colorado public thinks the way the Colorado AR15 forum thinks.
No, I'm not saying all points of view need to be taught... I had teacher in high school that could do it correctly... Teach the f***ing subject OBJECTIVELY and don't let your personal opinions and politics get involved. We can't demand this? What happened to objectivity. Of course a college professor I had, and admired, who taught political science always said "Of course, there are always two sides to every story... and then there's the truth." The only way "all points of view" can be taught is in something like religious studies. In, say, history class, there is only the facts that pertain to the subject matter and no "points of view" so to speak. I mean, can we really argue who murdered 6 million Jews in WWII?

I tend to think along the lines of "Evil will only triumph when good men do nothing."

At that age, I was a lot less engaging than I am now. Had I taken a course with a vocal prof at that age, I probably would have just fumed too, but now about 7 years later I'd be willing to challenge the professor. By challenge, I mean present reasonable counterarguments, not "You're a stupid moron Professor Knowitall."

Nobody wants to be the first. I'm sure that there are more in that classroom that agree with a conservative point of view, but when noone else speaks up they think that they must be the only ones thinking it. If one person has the courage to speak up, this'll encourage more discussion and facilitate learning.

I would say that documenting everything is a good start. If you think you're in jeopardy of losing grades, keep before and after, document what you say/when/how, and if need be present your argument to the appropriate levels.

If we don't speak out now, then this just emboldens the other side to make even further claims, and make laws like the ones that went into effect yesterday. But if we speak out, this may help bring more to our side and prevent stupidity from spreading (or at least spreading as quickly).
THIS!

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

And I'm not saying "shut up and spit it back" as an absolute. Again, it all depends on what you want out of the experience. Some of the things you hear go from mild eye-roller to outrageous.

I just also think some of the suggestions are equally disconnected with reality.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

No, I'm not saying all points of view need to be taught... I had teacher in high school that could do it correctly... Teach the f***ing subject OBJECTIVELY and don't let your personal opinions and politics get involved. We can't demand this? What happened to objectivity. Of course a college professor I had, and admired, who taught political science always said "Of course, there are always two sides to every story... and then there's the truth." The only way "all points of view" can be taught is in something like religious studies. In, say, history class, there is only the facts that pertain to the subject matter and no "points of view" so to speak. I mean, can we really argue who murdered 6 million Jews in WWII?


Positive and Normative. There is a big difference and I'll let you guess which area these guys are playing around in. ;)

[Inconel710]

Thank God, I was an engineering major! Not much argument about the direction of gravity.

I have a good friend whose degree is in International Relations and there are idealist and realist camps there too. He just puts up with the idealists and parrots the prof when he has to. He'll let his opinion be known, but do what he has to do to pass the class.

Personally, arguing with a liberal prof is like Don Quixote tilting at windmills. Pointless.

[UrbanWolf]

To end the "do or do not" debate here. I will make negative comment on the end of term anonymous review for the instructor for letting his personal view get in the classroom, but only that. God forbit I file a complaint to a dean who think Obama is 21 century Christ.... Like one of the deans from my high school...guy had the biggest Obama face poster hanging in his office.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

To end the "do or do not" debate here. I will make negative comment on the end of term anonymous review for the instructor for letting his personal view get in the classroom, but only that. God forbit I file a complaint to a dean who think Obama is 21 century Christ.... Like one of the deans from my high school...guy had the biggest Obama face poster hanging in his office.

Those really are cathartic, and they do get around.

[Ronin13]

Add his/her name on http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/

[ZERO THEORY]

I don't think I could sit quietly upon hearing that drivel.

This.