Gun and mag laws

[DVC357]

Ok so i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, as im old, and I'm not affraid to use age as a fall back.
So i've got a Firearm i'd like to trade. Back in the day (last year) it came with >15 round mags.
I'm offering it for trade only with NO Mags. People are writing me telling me "If the mags originally
came with the gun, then they can be sold with the gun"
That just doesent seem to be my understanding of the law, such as it is.
Please advise.

[sniper7]

No you have to keep the mags. Now I Dont know if you can sell parts of mags though....

[Goodburbon]

No you have to keep the mags. Now I Dont know if you can sell parts of mags though....

I would not push that limit unless you know the person you're selling to.


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[battle_sight_zero]

The way I understand the law based upon the information the AG put out is that we can transfer our 15 round or less mags with the firearm when we sale or trade. You can sell your 15 round or less mags to others just like we did before in the for sale sections here or on armslist. You can buy 15 round or less mags from Midway or any online place and get them delivered to your house. What sucks is the law is stupid and it also effectively impacts our ability to trade or sale. If I wanted to trade either of my XDM standard size 9 or 40 pistol they would have to be sold without mags. I am not aware of any lower capacity mags being made for the standard size XDM. Many of us have Glock 17 pistols, and if you bought them in Colorado over the last 9 years 17 round capacity was standard size until now. Trade or sale that 17 and they got to come with no mags or 10 rounders. Now as mentioned we now have to use an FFL to transfer our firearm, good luck on that most of them don't want to deal with local transfer. Basically the DemonRats have made things very difficult and have really killed the gun market in Colorado. I did do some trading and selling quite a bit before the nonsense laws. Much of the that money or trades were used to obtain other firearms from local dealers for things I really wanted. I am sure that dealers are going to lose some big time money in Colorado from this nonsense. Heck many of the dealers pulled there ARs and AKS all ready. Yep get ready for California compliant nonsense. I will not buy a California compliant gun F"em" . I can last until this garbage is overturned or I can move out of state, but I AM NOT GOING TO BUY CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK, or NEW JERSY compliant shitt no way no how.

[OtterbatHellcat]

MOD EDIT:

No. I generally recommend against self-incrimination.

--trot

END MOD EDIT

[battle_sight_zero]

agreed

[Hound]

A lot of us were saying this was a backdoor gun ban. They wanted to go further and limit ammo but could not figure it out. Fields personally asked me that one at a town hall. Mags were the only one they could go with with the same goal. You know, since you can't refill them.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Alrighty then, and thank you Sir.

[crays]

agreed

I wouldn't yell that too loud, lest the other side hears. Then it would be no more. Even if it is legal (did I hear a tree- hugger screaming "loophole!!!"?).

Sent via Mobile

[battle_sight_zero]

I wouldn't yell that too loud, lest the other side hears. Then it would be no more. Even if it is legal (did I hear a tree- hugger screaming "loophole!!!"?).

Sent via Mobile

I have not broke the stupid laws, however I am not going to stop trying to get this garbage overturned and confronting the people who support this nonsense. I love my State and its western lifestyle being 5th generation. Heck my family has been here since the 1860s and we help build and protect this State as it grew. Just before Monument hill on the right side that was their homestead. Later it was the area up in Victor. When we go into the pioneers museum we see the pics of ancestors, and what do they have in their hands? Firearms. It is engrained into us. What has this state become when a father can not pass on historic family heirlooms to is son without a background check?

[OtterbatHellcat]

Pretty much clears that all up Trot.

Thank you.

[crays]

Easy there BSZ. I was merely stating that we don't need to help the other side by pointing out some of the deficiencies in their new baby.
You're good with me.

Sent via Mobile

[battle_sight_zero]

Easy there BSZ. I was merely stating that we don't need to help the other side by pointing out some of the deficiencies in their new baby.
You're good with me.

Sent via Mobile

Sorry man, I have been pretty down on the whole thing but I have not broke the law but I sure want to rant and rave about how bad these things are. Either way things will work out, cant wait to see what happens on the 11th, maybe these laws will get suspended with all of the sheriffs doing there part, hope is all I got right now,

[Great-Kazoo]

Block them to 15 then sell with the gun, it's very easy to do. if you were closer i would do them for you.

[baglock1]

I see this as a pretty simple issue. If I decide to sell a firearm with > 15rd mags within Kolorado, I will first insert a long screw through the base plate up into the body of the mag, effectively limiting the amount of rounds it can hold. I shall then epoxy the holy living hell out of said screw such that removing it would destroy the base plate, making it a permanent mod (can't be removed without making the mag unserviceable).

This seems legal to me and then the new owner can do whatever they want with the new setup. Of course, it's all academic since I refuse to go through an FFL for a private sale and that's now illegal. Therefore, I'm not selling anything here, especially if I don't know you. :)

Note to the mods: Do what you must, but I don't see this describing a way to circumvent the law or any other such nonsense. It describes an easy way to modify certain magazines to hold 15 round or less. If any other member should describe what they'd do with the modified mag, delete their post.

[Squeeze]

Block them to 15 then sell with the gun, it's very easy to do. if you were closer i would do them for you.

^^^This. Even though Jim is a crotchety old fart, he does top quality work and a hell of a great guy to deal with. [Beer]

[J]

All three of you are horribly, incredibly, and ridiculously wrong....

"Designed to be readily converted to accept more than" Is the key phrase. Its a shit show on extenders, removable floor plates, etc.

BUT!!!!! If they were origninally more than 15 rounds, and you have converted them to not allow more than 15 rounds, such a magazine, in its construction, as the original magazine and your modifications, was designed to be readily converted from 20,30,40 rounds to 15 rounds. And conversely, was designed to be readily converted again to take more than 15. I've consulted 3 lawyers (all clients) on this topic.

Don't do this, or you may be one of the examples. And we are not allowing these on this site.

[sniper7]

J, I Dont quite understand. So you can convert your own to say 15 and convert them back but you can't convert them to 15 to include in a sale since they were originally more than 15?

Also, I thought they came up with some extra language based on the floor plates and extenders since basically all mags with a baseplate could be converted easily

[spyder]

If they can hold more than 15, they are illegal, even if you convert to hold 15 or less. So, any 20, 30, and up is illegal no matter what. Unless* you plastic weld the floor plate to it making it permanent after converting it to 15 or less. However, you could still get in trouble some would see it as a 30 rounder still, till you proved your case in court, so tread lightly.

[spqrzilla]

Exactly, you can't block a magazine by sticking a spacer in it.

[DVC357]

Ok Gentleman.
I appreciate all the feedback.
At this time, NO MAGS (>15rds) will be included in any sale.

[CareyH]

Wouldn't this make any magazine with a removable floor plate illegal? If i sold you a glock 22 with 15rd mags you could easily convert them to accept more than 15rds with the addition of an extended base plate. Or a cz75 15rd mag that all you have to do is cut the follower and you will be over 15 rds. Vague laws are so fun. "Easily convertible"= just about any magazine

[bryjcom]

I think if you permanently modify the mag to accept no more than 15 rounds then you could sell it.

For instance you you used a rivet to block the follower from traveling down then that would be a "permanent" modification, right? Since it would need special tools to remove such a rivet?

But if you use a screw then it becomes a temporary modification as a screw is "readily" removed and the mag is converted back to evil status.

Just thinking out loud.

[Great-Kazoo]

I think if you permanently modify the mag to accept no more than 15 rounds then you could sell it.

For instance you you used a rivet to block the follower from traveling down then that would be a "permanent" modification, right? Since it would need special tools to remove such a rivet?

But if you use a screw then it becomes a temporary modification as a screw is "readily" removed and the mag is converted back to evil status.

Just thinking out loud.

The floor plate must be made no longer removable. either epoxy, pop riveted, or spot welded. depending on the magazines material composition. One company is using spacers to block to 10 rds then crimp and epoxy the floor plate, on Pmags They are CA Compliant.

[SAnd]

Here are 3 mag that I converted to denver legal 20 round capacity. I cut a section out of the Grease Gun and the Suomi stick mags so they are shorter to only hold 20 rounds. They are about 3 inches shorter now. The drum was a little more complicated. It has a rivet cross-ways in the channel to stop the follower. I also cut notches in the channel walls so the follower will jam up just beyond the rivet. I also riveted the piece with the channels so it can't rotate. I've converted these 3 mags several years ago so they are grandfathered in for the state law.

31179

My reading of the Colorado law and the Denver Code is that it doesn't matter how the mag left the factory as long as in the current condition the mag can't hold more than 15 rounds and can't be easily changed.

I have no expectation that the law will be overturned in the courts.

[spqrzilla]

I think if you permanently modify the mag to accept no more than 15 rounds then you could sell it.

For instance you you used a rivet to block the follower from traveling down then that would be a "permanent" modification, right? Since it would need special tools to remove such a rivet?

But if you use a screw then it becomes a temporary modification as a screw is "readily" removed and the mag is converted back to evil status.

Just thinking out loud.
While you may be correct, we have no such interpretation from the courts and the law does not provide for any other method of clarifying its language on the "readily convertible" phrase.

[hardoc]

While you may be correct, we have no such interpretation from the courts and the law does not provide for any other method of clarifying its language on the "readily convertible" phrase.

I believe that is one of the arguments that Sheriff Justin Smith has against the silly law.

[battle_sight_zero]

Watching arms list it does not appear that many of the sellers have seen the memos on the new laws regarding gun sales and magazines. Here is one example. http://www.armslist.com/posts/1766103/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--nib-dpms-panther-ar15--

[ray1970]

Watching arms list it does not appear that many of the sellers have seen the memos on the new laws regarding gun sales and magazines. Here is one example. http://www.armslist.com/posts/1766103/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--nib-dpms-panther-ar15--

Yep. Or maybe it's part of some sort of sting operation.

[Portsider86]

What memo I didn't get one. If legislators can do whatever the hell they feel like so can we.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Rather than risk becoming a test case, I'd just sell the mags out of state and sell the firearm without mags with the price adjusted to account for the mags.

[flogger]

What if someone moves here from out of state with ' guns and mags '? Should they register somehow? WOULD they?? Would YOU???

[spqrzilla]

What if someone moves here from out of state with ' guns and mags '? Should they register somehow? WOULD they?? Would YOU???

Huh? What are you talking about? There is no registration of either guns nor magazines in Colorado.

[Portsider86]

What if someone moves here from out of state with ' guns and mags '? Should they register somehow? WOULD they?? Would YOU???

As already stated there isn't any registration in CO. Just keep quiet and stop posting hypothetical questions. Focus on getting this nonsense repealed and those bozos out of office.

[Professor Frink]

As already stated there isn't any registration in CO. Just keep quiet and stop posting hypothetical questions. Focus on getting this nonsense repealed and those bozos out of office.

This guy.

[Mahoney]

Can a person move into the state with banned mags?

[flogger]

Huh? What are you talking about? There is no registration of either guns nor magazines in Colorado.

Not yet!

[Circuits]

Can a person move into the state with banned mags?

Not clear - but HB1224 does not address residency, so if not forbidden, it's legal.

Hypothetical - a guy can move in state with 1,000,000 30rd mags he owned out of state before 7/1/13. But once they're here, he can't sell them, or give them away or trade them or loan them, except to send them out of state.