777 crashes at sfo

[cofi]

Initial reports say it lost its tail on landing approach no words on injured or deaths

Fox if streaming it live it's been burning pretty heavy for the last hour and they seem to finally have the fire under control

[Irving]

Is this the new Dreamjet that's been having the battery problems?

[Rabid]

Is this the new Dreamjet that's been having the battery problems?
No the dreamliner is the 787

[muddywings]

wow....that's epic!!! the debris starts way before the threshold and the empennage was way back there. that's some crazy crap!

edit: looks like it hit the seawall at the very start of the runway environment.
Hope all got out ok, saw some people getting on a bus...

[cofi]

wow....that's epic!!! the debris starts way before the threshold and the empennage was way back there. that's some crazy crap!

Yea looks like pilot was way short

[SuperiorDG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqNGo7V2qXQ

[cofi]

awesome news faa report 0 fatalities

[muddywings]

Holy crap...pictures of people evacuating and they have their carryon bags!!!! PSA: if I'm in a plane crash and you are getting your carryon luggage from the overhead bin you'll get more than just an elbow to the ribs!!!! Crazy!

[muddywings]

tower audio for those who are interested....nothing glaring on it though:

http://soberbuildengineer-com.s3.amazonaws.com/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3http://soberbuildengineer-com.s3.amazonaws.com/AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3

[mdflem51]

Looks like Boeing will sell another airplane.

[mdflem51]

Looks like Boeing will sell another airplane. I`ve made some bad landings...not that bad! more to this.. Birds?

[muddywings]

Looks like Boeing will sell another airplane. I`ve made some bad landings...not that bad! more to this.. Birds?

would be the environment for them....

[mdflem51]

Please forgive my levity..2 dead..

[sniper7]

Bad news. I'm curious to see what the findings are

[muddywings]

yea...my gut is leaning away from birds and more towards human error. just a gut feeling though

[BushMasterBoy]

My understanding is the empennage struck the seawall due to a short landing. Maybe I am wrong...

[T-Jet]

Heard it was descending at 1400 fpm right before impact so I'm thinking they didn't get the engine(s) to spool up when they needed it on short final... similar to what happened to that other 777 in London a couple of years ago?

[BushMasterBoy]

Wow. This report says ice crystals formed in the fuel of the 777 crash in London. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38

[muddywings]

Wow. This report says ice crystals formed in the fuel of the 777 crash in London. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_38

London had Rolls-Royce engines vs. this one had Pratt & Whitney engines. As far as I know none of the Pratt engines have had any of those issues.

[KAPA]

Not looking good for the pilots here. Speculation on my part so stop reading now if you have a problem with speculation. Both the Glideslope and VASI were NOTAMed out of service. Combine that with an Asian carrier that rarely manually lands the plane by hand and I am going to say this one looks like pilot error. Basically, it is like trying to shoot an apple 200 yards out and looking through the scope but not having cross hairs at all.

[sniper7]

Eye witness on the news described a high approach with a high rate of descent but an approach that would have put them Much to low at the end of the runway.

Sounds like they were high and got a steep angle to the runway which put them low without the engines spooled up and they ended up short with a high rate of descent and possibly stalling in the flare which could have hit the seawall or struck the tail on the runway.

[TriggerHappy]

Yea looks like pilot was way short

Asian airlines should have a "Height requirement" for pilots....

[spleify]

This is horrible

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Asian airlines should have a "Height requirement" for pilots....
[LOL]

[T-Jet]

Not looking good for the pilots here. Speculation on my part so stop reading now if you have a problem with speculation. Both the Glideslope and VASI were NOTAMed out of service. Combine that with an Asian carrier that rarely manually lands the plane by hand and I am going to say this one looks like pilot error. Basically, it is like trying to shoot an apple 200 yards out and looking through the scope but not having cross hairs at all.

Oh - I wouldn't say it's that hard. There are other methods of determining a proper glideslope even without the VASI or glideslope. The FMC can be programmed to show a fix at a predetermined distance from the runway, then you so simple 3:1 math to keep track of where you should be on a proper glideslope. Or you could just see where the final approach fix is from the runway on the chart and there is an altitude depicted of where you would cross the FAF on a proper ILS approach then just setup for an 800 fpm decent from there.
However, if the crew got caught with their pants down and missed the NOTAMS where it stated the VASI & glideslope were out of service and were playing catchup during the approach (a possibility as it sounded like they were high on the approach to begin with) and didn't get the engines spooled up until too late then... there you go.
Weird to me that it shows the impact of the tail at the sea wall off to the right and not aligned with centerline at all - but the 777 is a long airplane and if there was a stiff crosswind from the southwest at the time that would put their tail over on that side of the centerline while crabbing their way in on the approach.
I'd like to know who was flying this approach - captain or co-pilot.

[Gman]

777 will land itself. Sounds like somebody screwed up.

If you've ever landed at SFO, it feels like you're always coming in short. Water...water....water...water....uh oh, are we landing in the bay?....water....RUNWAY!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/07/19335725-electronic-landing-system-was-off-at-san-francisco-airport-during-crash?lite

The level of survivability was pretty amazing considering how wrong this went.

[DEAGLER]

Asian airlines should have a "Height requirement" for pilots....


Racial remark?

[BushMasterBoy]

I'm surprised they don't have cameras at the end of the runways filming these landings and departures. I know some airports have a taxi surveillance system to prevent taxiing across an inbound aircraft...

[spyder]

Racial remark?

Ya, trigger is really, really racist......

[cofi]

CNN has the worst video ever of the crash up
http://jalopnik.com/cnn-video-shows-impact-of-asiana-airlines-flight-214-694983955?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_faceboo k&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[T-Jet]

Sounds like the flying pilot screwed up. Got slow and low, corrected too late.

[vossman]

Scary shit.

[drew890]

CNN has the worst video ever of the crash up
http://jalopnik.com/cnn-video-shows-impact-of-asiana-airlines-flight-214-694983955?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_faceboo k&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Sure would have nice had he been using a little zoom while filming. Unfortunately, that video leaves much to be desired.

[spyder]

CNN has the worst video ever of the crash up
http://jalopnik.com/cnn-video-shows-impact-of-asiana-airlines-flight-214-694983955?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_faceboo k&utm_source=jalopnik_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Holy crap, at 26 seconds, the plane is flipped around backwards and lifts off the runway ass first, and then flops back down.... The fact that people survived that shit, is absolutely amazing.......

[RMAC757]

777 will land itself. Sounds like somebody screwed up.

If you've ever landed at SFO, it feels like you're always coming in short. Water...water....water...water....uh oh, are we landing in the bay?....water....RUNWAY!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/07/19335725-electronic-landing-system-was-off-at-san-francisco-airport-during-crash?lite

The level of survivability was pretty amazing considering how wrong this went.

Not with an ILS notamed out it won't. Not sure what the conditions were other than being windy ( it's always windy there ) but things get busy with simultaneous visuals occuring. SFO has a history of bringing you in high and hot, especially when visual. Not saying that had anything to do with it but trying to get that thing down if they were high and fast may of pulled their heads inside and decreased SA a bit.

[sniper7]

I'm amazed it held together as well as it did and the amount if people who were relatively unhurt

[tmleadr03]

Asian airlines should have a "Height requirement" for pilots....

I said to the wife when I heard about this "Asian drivers", she replied that the pilot must have slipped off the phone book.

Before anyone jumps me on that she is Korean.

[MrPrena]

Asiana Airlines Stock (KSE: 020560.KS) getting hammered!



Asiana Airlines, Inc. (020560.KS) -KSE

4,875.00 http://l.yimg.com/os/mit/media/m/base/images/transparent-1093278.png 245.00(4.79%) 12:19AM EDT

[cofi]

Sounds like one of the girls killed was struck by ems :(

[Gman]

I heard that too, run over by a "piece of emergency equipment".

[USAFGopherMike]

CRM failure by the crew. Non-flying pilot should have been watching airspeed, altitude and rate of descent and comparing it to the TOLD card. They got low and slow fast, drug the tail through the water and impacted the seawall. The fact that so many survived is a testiment to the 777's design and cabin crew's evac skills. If one was hit by responding fire apparatus, that's fail. Those trucks are equipped with FLIR and a host of sensors and they train to avoid that situtation. That said, the passengers probably didn't evac in a perfect way training scenarios usually go = 45 degrees off the nose. Great response by EMS, there in less than 3 mins; a critical time barrier for fire suppression.

[RMAC757]

CRM failure by the crew. Non-flying pilot should have been watching airspeed, altitude and rate of descent and comparing it to the TOLD card. They got low and slow fast, drug the tail through the water and impacted the seawall. The fact that so many survived is a testiment to the 777's design and cabin crew's evac skills. If one was hit by responding fire apparatus, that's fail. Those trucks are equipped with FLIR and a host of sensors and they train to avoid that situtation. That said, the passengers probably didn't evac in a perfect way training scenarios usually go = 45 degrees off the nose. Great response by EMS, there in less than 3 mins; a critical time barrier for fire suppression.

Pretty sure TOLD cards are old news now Mike. The days of setting airspeed bugs are now pretty much relegated to a few older carriers with steam gauges. Fully integrated FMS's have made them pretty much obsolete which makes this even more bizarre. The Triple has an auto throttle system which in all likely hood was disconnected at some point between 3-400 ft given the FDR data ( A/S drop from 134 kias to 109 kias in just a couple hundred feet ) unless he was over riding it which is possible. The flying pilot was in all likelihood doing IOE ( Initial Operating Experience) as a captain which explains the Check Airman in the right seat. I've been in there what seems like hundreds of times and I can't get my head around what happened in the last couple hundred feet of this flight. What is known for sure is that they were high on most of the approach and were probably busting their ass getting it down like we all do on good weather days in SFO.

[USAFGopherMike]

I figured as much RMAC, point being... the R.Seater should have been watching the A/S and sink rate. Should have taken the airplane as they dropped below min speed for that approach. Glass is only as good as the monkey trying to read it.

[Gman]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/09/19377662-pilot-in-charge-of-asiana-flight-was-on-his-first-trip-as-an-instructor-ntsb?lite

Two flight attendants were ejected from tail-less plane at impact and were found off to the side of the runway. They survived but suffered injuries, Hersman said.
Just amazing to me how many survived such a huge mess.

[MrPrena]

Asiana 214 meets Asiana 214

http://i44.tinypic.com/auumtt.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2mmckk3.jpg