Military Arms Channel Talks NFA items

[muddywings]

I'm starting my research for a future SBR and suppressor build.
Found, what I think, is a pretty descent video on the process via the military arms channel. Of course, since I don't know what I'm doing, I thought I would ask what people here their thoughts of MACs info. (of course, the timeframes for waiting are a lot longer than he states, but seems to have done a good job)



http://youtu.be/Z6ONqI3_QOI

Also, found this to describe the difference between individual and Trust (I plan on doing a Trust, even though I don't/won't have kids):

2 - For a Trust or Corporation select the middle box which says Corporation or Other Business entity.

3b Should have your trust name and the address where the item will be stored, not necessarily the address of your trust.

3d Should contain the county you live in or will store the item in.

4a Should contain the Manufacturer's name or if you are the manufacture, the Trust's Name.

4b should contain the type of firearm ( Silencer, SBR, SBS, Machine Gun, AOW, DD).

4c should contain the caliber or gage ( Multi is not acceptable, you can only list one, if you have additional calibers you want to list you can list them in 4h).

4d should contain the model number of the firearm. (For a Silencer You would need to create a model number)

4e should contain the length of the Barrel number of the firearm. (you can only list 1) (For a Silencer you should use N/A)

4f should contain the overall length of the firearm. (For a Silencer use the overall length of the silencer)

4g should contain the serial number of the lower and if none you should create one that will be engraved.

4h will normally be blank, but if there are other markings or numbers they should be included here.

4i should contain "any lawful purpose" unless your state requires for a scientific or experimental purpose - see your state restrictions on NFA firearms.

4j will normally be checked NO but if it was an NFA item that was removed from the NFA previously check YES.

5 If you have a FFL enter the 15 digit license number.

6 If you have a SOT enter the SOT license number in A and the Class in B. As a trust you should not have a FFL or SOT.

7 Sign your name as trustee.

8 Print or type your name as trustee.

9 Date the Application.

10-11 You must answer these truthfully, if you answer yes to any you will probably not be allowed to purchase. Once exception to this is question 10d for certain transfers.

12 - 13 Ignore these for Trust or business purchases as they are not necessary.

[asmo]

I'm starting my research for a future SBR and suppressor build.
Found, what I think, is a pretty descent video on the process via the military arms channel. Of course, since I don't know what I'm doing, I thought I would ask what people here thought of their info. (of course, the timeframes for waiting are a lot longer than he states, but seems to have done a good job)

Also, found this to describe the difference between individual and Trust (I plan on doing a Trust, even though I don't/won't have kids):


Are you doing a Form 1, Form 4, (or Form 3 ;)) The numbers are different between the different forms.

[muddywings]

Are you doing a Form 1, Form 4, (or Form 3 ;)) The numbers are different between the different forms.

Form 1=SBR, yes?
Form 4=suppressor, yes?
Form 3=I don't know, still learning and researching when I get some down time a work.

[asmo]

Form 1=SBR, yes?
Form 4=suppressor, yes?
Form 3=I don't know, still learning and researching when I get some down time a work.

Form 1 = Making or manufacturing a firearm. So taking an existing non-NFA rifle and making an SBR out of it would be considered making/manufacturing a firearm. You could also get an SBR by buying one from someone else. See form 4 below.

Form 3 = Was more of a joke than anything, but you never know - some people get bit hard by the NFA bug and become SOTs. The form 3 is for transferring a NFA item between SOTs. Only time you have to worry about this as a non-SOT is if you are buying a NFA item out of state and you need the SOT there to transfer the item to the SOT here -- and even then you don't fill out any of the paperwork yourself.

Form 4 = Application to transfer an existing NFA item into 'your' name. What you do if you are going to buy something that is already a NFA item (typically a supressor, a MG, or a SBR that someone else has done).

As for the video - I thought it was good. When you go to fill out your first Form 1 its pretty easy. Here is a good example with a trust: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

Also, one thing that almost everyone forgets when buying anything with a trust is your 4473 acquisition statement. You give that to the FFL/SOT when you fill out the 4473 for an item that is going to be explicitly owned by the trust.

[muddywings]

Form 1 = Making or manufacturing a firearm. So taking an existing non-NFA rifle and making an SBR out of it would be considered making/manufacturing a firearm. You could also get an SBR by buying one from someone else. See form 4 below.

Form 3 = Was more of a joke than anything, but you never know - some people get bit hard by the NFA bug and become SOTs. The form 3 is for transferring a NFA item between SOTs. Only time you have to worry about this as a non-SOT is if you are buying a NFA item out of state and you need the SOT there to transfer the item to the SOT here -- and even then you don't fill out any of the paperwork yourself.

Form 4 = Application to transfer an existing NFA item into 'your' name. What you do if you are going to buy something that is already a NFA item (typically a supressor, a MG, or a SBR that someone else has done).

As for the video - I thought it was good. When you go to fill out your first Form 1 its pretty easy. Here is a good example with a trust: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1.html

Also, one thing that almost everyone forgets when buying anything with a trust is your 4473 acquisition statement. You give that to the FFL/SOT when you fill out the 4473 for an item that is going to be explicitly owned by the trust.


what if I already have the lower in my hand (stripped)? I did some panic buying and it finally came in. Just decided...'hey, i'll look into making this an SBR.'

[asmo]

what if I already have the lower in my hand (stripped)? I did some panic buying and it finally came in. Just decided...'hey, i'll look into making this an SBR.'

Then you fill out your Form 1 and away you go.. However, your in this really weird gray area because technically the trust doesn't own the lower, you do. When you put the lower into the trusts name you have just done a transfer. It can get weirder still.. If you fill out the form 1 and put the trust's name on it, and you haven't transferred the item first, you have technically lied on the form since the Trust doesn't own the asset - you do.

Its not like the black helicopters are going to come after you since this happens to most people when they first start -- but it is an odd legal grey area that the ATF wont definitively make a stance on.

Best possible way to buy an NFA item is to have the trust first, the trust has a bank account, you buy the item with the funds from the trust's bank account. Then there is no question.

In your current case you already own a non-NFA lower. When you make the trust you transfer the lower into the trust's name and put it on your Schedule A (yeah now the trust is funded). However, in Colorado you have now just transferred a firearm and you really should subject yourself to a 'Universal Background Check'. Once you have done this, fill out your Form 1. Send it off. While waiting engrave the trust's name, city and state, on the lower (its not an NFA item until the ATF says so). When you get your Form 1 back all is well.

The only time you need a 4473 statement is when you fill out a 4473 for an item being purchased by the trust. You still put all your info on it, but then you give the FFL the signing statement saying that the item is being purchased for use/ownership by the corporation/trust.



When the buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity.

[muddywings]

excellent....this UBC law makes perfect sense!!!
like i said, just now doing the research...I have an 18-24 month long 'plan' lol.
I'll be in here often asking questions and surfing the other threads. I hope to get the trust set up in a month or two (in the middle of house hunting right now so want to get that done first)