Ford technicians?

[trlcavscout]

Any Ford dealership techs here that have been working on Fords a few years? Have a question on the 5.4 Triton. I worked on GM's for 9 years but I have some specific questions relating to the cam phasers and the aftermarket lock kit for them.

[zteknik]

Send me a pm and I'll try to help.
Been workin for Ford for over 10 yrs.

[zteknik]

Ah I see after edit.
I never dealt with the aftermarket lock kits,just the oem stuff.
But if you want,I can ask around work to see if any of the guys have had experiences with them.

[trlcavscout]

From what I heard replacing the phasers will help the noise but it comes back? So to spend that much money either way I would rather have a permanent fix. Unless Ford has came up with a permanent fix?

[XC700116]

I've gone through every fricken idea and rendition on mine, and learned a few things in the process along the way. I might be able to help you out on it. I've also got a few good bookmarked forum pages that have a TON of info if you're interested. However I never went the mechanical limiter/lockout route with mine.

Are you changing cams to a set that requires it? If not there's other options that will retain your performance and gas mileage better with the stock cams and phasers. About 75% of "cam phaser" problems (the sound like it's some strange diesel hybrid) aren't actually the phasers causing the problems yet most dealerships will automatically jump to phasers.

[trlcavscout]

I am not changing cams, the diesel sound is annoying but I could live with it. Problem is I was told not fixing it when eventually lead to valve contact problems? Better gas mileage would be awesome but I like the power and it runs good for a 3 valve. I have been googling it and seen about 300 different fixes for the same problem haha but the only thread I found where he reported back saying it was fixed was the guy saying he installed the lock out kit? Everybody that said the replaced a few rocker arms/cam phasers etc all said the noise came back? If it won't lead to nuclear destruction I don't care.

[00tec]

I have the same issue. From the research I've done, not fixing it won't cause a problem. Read of successful fixes replacing the phasers (if needed), and the timing chain guides. Apparently slight slack in the chain will cause the phasers to rattle. Fixing it properly gets a few mpg as well.

[XC700116]

As info the typical noise issue is the cam chain guides, tensioner arms and tensioners causing chain slap and throwing the variable timing off. Another usual culprit is the variable timing solenoids.

What causes these problems more than anything, (assuming the oil is changed regularly to begin with) and I hate to even say this because I'd have never believed it if I hadn't learned the hard way, is aftermarket filters that don't have the correct check valve in it. You're time and money ahead to just run the motocraft filter that's made for it. Problem basically comes from over stroking the cam chain tensioners because the pressure isn't held in the system when the motor is shut down. They back off the tension and then have a full stroke to get tension and over time breaks the chain guide from running with the chains loose for a short period of time and slapping on the guide during the first 5 seconds every time the motor is started up.

It's a pain in the ass to do the chain guides and tensioners, but I'd bet money when you pop the front cover off you'll find at least one of them broken.

Also as soon as you pop the valve covers off you can tell if the phasers are bad or not, the spring coil won't be coiled nice and straight when they are good, when they're bad it's pretty obvious cause the plate for the hall effect cam position sensors will be canted off to the side and the spring isn't wound straight anymore.

[trlcavscout]

So what's the average cost to have the chains, tensioners and guides replaced by a good mechanic for those of you who have had it done?

[zteknik]

As info the typical noise issue is the cam chain guides, tensioner arms and tensioners causing chain slap and throwing the variable timing off. Another usual culprit is the variable timing solenoids.

What causes these problems more than anything, (assuming the oil is changed regularly to begin with) and I hate to even say this because I'd have never believed it if I hadn't learned the hard way, is aftermarket filters that don't have the correct check valve in it. You're time and money ahead to just run the motocraft filter that's made for it. Problem basically comes from over stroking the cam chain tensioners because the pressure isn't held in the system when the motor is shut down. They back off the tension and then have a full stroke to get tension and over time breaks the chain guide from running with the chains loose for a short period of time and slapping on the guide during the first 5 seconds every time the motor is started up.

It's a pain in the ass to do the chain guides and tensioners, but I'd bet money when you pop the front cover off you'll find at least one of them broken.

Also as soon as you pop the valve covers off you can tell if the phasers are bad or not, the spring coil won't be coiled nice and straight when they are good, when they're bad it's pretty obvious cause the plate for the hall effect cam position sensors will be canted off to the side and the spring isn't wound straight anymore.

Exactly,after a pm with the op the chain tensioners and guides sound more like the concern.
If it were the phasers it would run like a box of rocks and throw some codes.

[XC700116]

I did mine myself, It's a pain, but if you've been a GM mechanic, you're more than capable. Here's a link to a thread with all the info including part numbers, and excerpts from the factory manuals.

http://www.f150forum.com/f4/final-repair-guide-5-4-cam-phaser-tick-knock-sound-141266/

[zteknik]

So what's the average cost to have the chains, tensioners and guides replaced by a good mechanic for those of you who have had it done?
I don't quite remember what the book time was but I think its like close to 8hrs or so.I'd have to look it up when I'm at work

[XC700116]

Seems like the going rate at a ford garage is about $2300 which is fricken nuts cause the parts are a total of less than $500. That's new phasers, cam chains, guides, tensioners, and seals/gaskets. It's about a 10-12 hour job though.


Also make sure and check your exhaust manifolds for cracks, it's a very common problem. Mine now has stainless headers on it :D

[JMBD2112]

it would run like a box of rocks and throw some codes.

I thought that was normal operation for Fords....hahaha I couldn't help myself [ROFL1]

[zteknik]

I thought that was normal operation for Fords....hahaha I couldn't help myself [ROFL1]
Job security :D

[trlcavscout]

I thought that was normal operation for Fords....hahaha I couldn't help myself [ROFL1]

After driving Fords most of my life and working at Chevy/Buick/GMC/Olds/caddy dealers, I would take a Ford any day, and Dodge hell no!

[trlcavscout]

Thanks for the help guys! I love the truck and I don't want to run it to long with out fixing it, but I can't afford to fix it for a few months. But this gave me more hope then I had seen so far.

[zteknik]

Too bad you didn't live closer to me,I'd give you a hand.

[XC700116]

I'd offer to give a hand too, unfortunately I'm out of commission for a while with a broken collar bone.

[streetglideok]

Something to keep in mind, a lot of the timing component problems on these engines is caused from excessively long oil intervals, and incorrect oil. Look in your owners manual, it gives the ford spec for the oil. If you don't see it on the bottles of oil you use, there is a hint.