View Full Version : Nearly naked rape victim left outside as frightened homeowners call 911
muddywings
07-12-2013, 20:43
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/justice/florida-rape-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t5
^^^ 911 audio inside
(CNN) -- A Florida couple declined to answer the door just before midnight when a nearly naked woman knocked and screamed she had just been raped.
Rather, the homeowners called 911 Monday night.
The couple inside the home refused to let the woman in because they said they were afraid to open their door. In the 911 call, the woman can be heard pleading in the background. The distressed couple begged police to hurry. Their home is in an isolated area, and the couple feared for their safety if they opened the door.
It took about 11 minutes for police to arrive.
A subsequent investigation led to an arrest of a suspect and prompted the spokesman of the DeLand Police Department to remark that "unfortunately fear dictates the response anymore not knowing if (you're) being set up for other criminal activity."
Related: Teens trained to be active bystanders in dating violence (http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/25/living/bystander-education-dating-violence/index.html)
Police spokesman Lt. Jack Waples added that if citizens are uncomfortable opening the door to someone seeking help, "tell the person to calm down, you are calling 911 now," Waples said in a statement.
"If there are two of you, one continues to talk to the victim reassuring them help is on the way while the other person stays on the line with the authorities," Waples said.
"You control how you respond. For example, tell the person to back away from the door to a place (you're) comfortable with so you can throw out a blanket or something then go back inside. Always beware of your surroundings around the entry way such as high bushes someone else could be hiding behind.
"Every situation will be unique in its own way and the decision to help is up to the individual depending on how much they can do to assist," Waples said.
Juan L. Vera-Soledad, 29, of DeLand was arrested in the incident and charged with kidnapping and sex battery with a weapon, according to a charging affidavit filed by police.
Vera-Soledad was in custody Thursday, and it wasn't immediately clear whether he had an attorney.
The incident began late Monday night when the woman was forced at knifepoint to enter a man's car at a Citgo in DeLand, a police affidavit said.
The motorist had been circling her several times in his 1998 four-door Toyota and then stopped his car and asked her to get in, the police report said. The man then got out of his car and revealed a silver switchblade-style knife, forcing her into the passenger seat, police said.
He then drove to a location and raped the woman repeatedly, the police document said.
When the man "then laid down in the backseat as if to take a break for a couple of minutes," the woman sat up, elbowed him in the chest, grabbed her pink shorts and fled to the residence, the document said.
The homeowner told police that "he heard someone outside banging on his front door yelling that she had been raped," the affidavit said.
Responding officers then searched for the suspect and found him with a "known prostitute" in his car, the report said.
CNN's Mayra Cuevas contributed to this report.
***break break***
The concept of being a Good Samaritan is dead in this country.
I understand this could be a fake ploy to rob the homeowners and I guess good for them for thinking of that but the reliance on the police to render aid is sad to me. When seconds count....police are minutes away.
I know how I would open the door to render aid. Would you and how would you?
spqrzilla
07-12-2013, 20:46
It has been a scenario for obtaining access for a home invasion. I'm not going to criticize the homeowners.
Cylinder Head
07-12-2013, 20:49
It has been a scenario for obtaining access for a home invasion. I'm not going to criticize the homeowners.
Same I would be very cautious.
(CNN) -- A Florida couple declined to answer the door just before midnight when a nearly naked woman knocked and screamed she had just been raped.
Rather, the homeowners called 911 Monday night.
They were smart.
If someone is banging on my door at midnight, screaming about rape, the very first thing that would cross my mind: how many armed boyfriends are helping her with this scam.
I realize that bad things can happen anywhere at any time. However, having lived in Florida, the number of oddities that occur in that state dictates a level of caution, and indeed cynicism, that might not realistically need to exist elsewhere.
This could have just as easily ended up a story about a couple opening a door to help someone they perceived to have been in need, only to get their heads caved in and their house ransacked.
"Back to the bottom of the steps, here is a blanket. We have called the police."
muddywings
07-12-2013, 20:53
guess i'm wrong then....live and learn
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 20:57
Priority #1 is protect myself so that I'm able to protect my son. Definitely not opening the door.
I'd like to think I would help... with 911 on the phone, having confirmed police en route, with at least a primary weapon (visible) and backup (concealed). It's a home invasion scenario for sure.
It has been a scenario for obtaining access for a home invasion. I'm not going to criticize the homeowners.
I'm not going to criticize them either, they did the right thing.
It has been a scenario for obtaining access for a home invasion. I'm not going to criticize the homeowners.
this
Where I came from you would be very cautious,be lucky you don't get arrested or sued...
Maybe I was raised different and I'm not a chicken shit.
Gun in hand I'd still open the door.
Do you pussies watch as a man beats on a woman too?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Maybe I was raised different and I'm not a chicken shit.
Gun in hand I'd still open the door.
Do you pussies watch as a man beats on a woman too?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Beat Me too it, this 110^
Sent from my Otterbox Defended Tactical iPhone using High Capacity "Clips".
Great-Kazoo
07-12-2013, 21:12
It all depends on your comfort level.
I would have done different but i can not condemn them for their actions.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 21:24
Maybe I was raised different and I'm not a chicken shit.
Gun in hand I'd still open the door.
Do you pussies watch as a man beats on a woman too?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
I can see how this could possibly be a setup, but it would be a dumb one. Obviously its going to alarm anyone inside the house and theyll grab a weapon. They'd be better off just coming in by surprise than doing this.
I'd open the door after grabbing my gun.
JMBD2112
07-12-2013, 21:25
I would've answered the door at low ready, but that's just me.
Great-Kazoo
07-12-2013, 21:28
I can see how this could possibly be a setup, but it would be a dumb one. Obviously its going to alarm anyone inside the house and theyll grab a weapon. They'd be better off just coming in by surprise than doing this.
I'd open the door after grabbing my gun.
Most sheep will open the door @ 3 in the am because some scamer is selling fresh fish. ALSO NOT everyone is armed. If they were, none of these shit for safety gun laws OR the politicians who voted for them would have ever been elected.
you guys are making assumptions about a situation that you have no knowledge of
you don't know what preciptiated the attack
you don't know if the attacker is coming back to finish her off and he'll take you on too
you don't know if she is bait and 3 of her buddies are going shoot you and gain entry to your home
you don't know if she'll turn on you after you pull the attacker off
all you know is that you think you're the baddest mofo out there and you're willing to put yourself and your family in danger so you can be the tough guy
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 21:39
all you know is that you think you're the baddest mofo out there and you're willing to put yourself and your family in danger so you can be the tough guy
No shortage of bad mofo's in here haha
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 21:42
Most sheep will open the door @ 3 in the am because some scamer is selling fresh fish. ALSO NOT everyone is armed. If they were, none of these shit for safety gun laws OR the politicians who voted for them would have ever been elected.
Bullshit. (Almost) nobody who lives in a house, especially in a rural area, is answering the door after 10pm for a stranger without being awfully careful, and if they have a gun in the house they're at the very least thinking about grabbing it.
Point is, robbers wouldn't want to alarm everyone inside the house prior to the robbery.
I could see this done during the daytime much easier than at night, and they wouldn't even need the crying woman to alarm anyone. Just ring the doorbell.
I'd like to think I would have opened the door but at the same time my safety and my familys safety are top priority. These people did it right. The suspect got caught, they called the cops, she wasn't in any more immenant danger but put the homeowners in possible danger but it was her only choice. End of the day everyone is safe.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 21:44
you guys are making assumptions about a situation that you have no knowledge of
you don't know what preciptiated the attack
you don't know if the attacker is coming back to finish her off and he'll take you on too
you don't know if she is bait and 3 of her buddies are going shoot you and gain entry to your home
you don't know if she'll turn on you after you pull the attacker off
all you know is that you think you're the baddest mofo out there and you're willing to put yourself and your family in danger so you can be the tough guy
If a chick is raped outside my door crying for help, I'm answering the door. What does it have to do with being a tough guy. More like a helpful guy.
if there are gentlemen there to greet me, they're getting a chest full of lead if they try to come in.
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 21:44
Bullshit. (Almost) nobody who lives in a house, especially in a rural area, is answering the door after 10pm for a stranger without being awfully careful, and if they have a gun in the house they're at the very least thinking about grabbing it.
What about that director of prisions that opened the door for a pizza he didnt order?
JMBD2112
07-12-2013, 21:44
[Pop] In
If a chick is raped outside my door crying for help, I'm answering the door. What does it have to do with being a tough guy. More like a helpful guy.
if there are gentlemen there to greet me, they're getting a chest full of lead if they try to come in.
how do you come to that conclusion that she was raped. you can't possibly know.
when i was younger i stepped into a couple of things that i shouldn't have - i learned a couple of things first hand - never, ever assume you know what happened, never, ever assume your efforts will be appreciated
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 21:52
What about that director of prisions that opened the door for a pizza he didnt order?
Yeah, if there was a pizza guy outside my door I'd probably opens to tell him he had the wrong house. Good point. But you're also making my point, because a pizza guy is infinitely less alarming than a crying woman, which is why nobody would use a crying woman to get you to open the door so they could rob you. There are much safer and easier (for them) ways to get you to open the door.
Such as just coming to your house during the day and ringing the doorbell.
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 21:55
Yeah, if there was a pizza guy outside my door I'd probably opens to tell him he had the wrong house. Good point. But you're also making my point, because a pizza guy is infinitely less alarming than a crying woman, which is why nobody would use a crying woman to get you to open the door so they could rob you. There are much safer and easier (for them) ways to get you to open the door.
Such as just coming to your house during the day and ringing the doorbell.
True, I guess I'm more paranoid than most.
Pizza that I didn't order shows up I'm immediately thinking robbery or process server.. :D
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 21:58
never, ever assume you know what happened, never, ever assume your efforts will be appreciated
Quoted for truth.
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:00
Maybe I was raised different and I'm not a chicken shit.
Gun in hand I'd still open the door.
Do you pussies watch as a man beats on a woman too?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Feel free to call me a pussy all you want tough guy, but I've got a one month old in my home. Rape victim or otherwise, I'm not opening my door to any bullshit.
muddywings
07-12-2013, 22:00
Ok, just becaus I like the what-if scenerios and like to chair fly life a bit let me change it up a bit.
Instead of naked rape victim at your door, there is banging at your door and when when you get down there you here a woman yell "help, I just got mugged and stabbed. I'm bleeding really bad..."
Go...
centrarchidae
07-12-2013, 22:04
Maybe I was raised different and I'm not a chicken shit.
Gun in hand I'd still open the door.
Do you pussies watch as a man beats on a woman too?
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
It depends. Do I need to expose my own wife and my own children to danger, in order to not be a pussy?
If so, then I can live with being thought of as a pussy.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:07
Well imagine if it was your sister, wife, or mom banging on someone's door for help in the middle of the night. I don't care if they arm themselves to the teeth and treat her with extreme suspicion, i want them to open the door and help.
ill do it for your female relative, and you should do it for mine.
It depends. Do I need to expose my own wife and my own children to danger, in order to not be a pussy?
If so, then I can live with being thought of as a pussy.
Family first, do not put the family at risk. I can live with being a pussy too if it keeps my family safe.
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:11
Well imagine if it was your sister, wife, or mom banging on someone's door for help in the middle of the night. I don't care if they arm themselves to the teeth and treat her with extreme suspicion, i want them to open the door and help.
ill do it for your female relative, and you should do it for mine.
You try to pull the guilt trip card, but at the end of the day, keeping my family safe is more important than anybody else's family, sorry just the way it is.
centrarchidae
07-12-2013, 22:12
Well imagine if it was your sister, wife, or mom banging on someone's door for help in the middle of the night. I don't care if they arm themselves to the teeth and treat her with extreme suspicion, i want them to open the door and help.
ill do it for your female relative, and you should do it for mine.
Still not buying it.
If I'm home alone, that's one thing. I'll work out how to come outside to render aid, and bring some noise with me.
It's not my ten-month-old childrens' duty to be placed into harms way, no matter how good the cause.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:14
You try to pull the guilt trip card, but at the end of the day, keeping my family safe is more important than anybody else's family, sorry just the way it is.
As it should be. But you leave the house every day. You take risks with your family's safety, do you not?
every time you leave the house there could be a guy parked in a car waiting to come in. So what's the difference between leaving your house to go to work and opening the door for a woman crying for help?
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:15
Still not buying it.
If I'm home alone, that's one thing. I'll work out how to come outside to render aid, and bring some noise with me.
It's not my ten-month-old childrens' duty to be placed into harms way, no matter how good the cause.
Except when the cause is going to work in the morning, right?
centrarchidae
07-12-2013, 22:16
As it should be. But you leave the house every day. You take risks with your family's safety, do you not?
every time you leave the house there could be a guy parked in a car waiting to come in. So what's the difference between leaving your house to go to work and opening the door for a woman crying for help?
The difference is, in the case at hand, we know damn well that there's some sort of problem outside, and also know perfectly well that it's the kind of problem that's been used as a ruse to draw people outside in order to prey upon them before.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:17
The difference is, in the case at hand, we know damn well that there's some sort of problem outside, and also know perfectly well that it's the kind of problem that's been used as a ruse to draw people outside in order to prey upon them before.
Do you have a source for that?
im sure I can come up with stories about robbers coming in immediately after hubby leaves for work.
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:19
As it should be. But you leave the house every day. You take risks with your family's safety, do you not?
every time you leave the house there could be a guy parked in a car waiting to come in. So what's the difference between leaving your house to go to work and opening the door for a woman crying for help?
I can't be the "protector" of my family 24/7 365, but if we are all at home and a shitty situation comes knocking on my door, I'm sticking to my original statement "NOBODY'S life is more important than my families".
PugnacAutMortem
07-12-2013, 22:21
Well imagine if it was your sister, wife, or mom banging on someone's door for help in the middle of the night. I don't care if they arm themselves to the teeth and treat her with extreme suspicion, i want them to open the door and help.
ill do it for your female relative, and you should do it for mine.
Very important word in that statement.
It's all armchair quarterbacking here folks. You would like to think you know what you would do in this situation, but as always there are extenuating circumstances. Some folks here (like yourself) saying "I'd do it and you should too" might catch some minor detail that throws up a flag and you're not going to open the door for the pope himself let alone this chick. And on the other hand, those saying "No way" might in the moment not even hesitate to open the door and help.
Who knows, it could be a set up and you don't open the door, bad guys shoot through the door kill you/wife/child/dog/house plant. You might open the door, it's not a set up, but you get sued in civil court for XYZ and a dumbass jury awards the girl Umpteen Bajillion dollars for your "act of kindness".
If, could, would, should, might...all armchair quarterbacking folks.
PugnacAutMortem
07-12-2013, 22:23
I can't be the "protector" of my family 24/7 365, but if we are all at home and a shitty situation comes knocking on my door, I'm sticking to my original statement "NOBODY'S life is more important than my families".
Amen. I don't know why that is such a hard thing for some folks to wrap their heads around. If feeling this way makes me a pussy/asshole/selfish person...well then I guess I have a few new adjectives to describe myself by on the next job application I fill out.
Very important word in that statement.
It's all armchair quarterbacking here folks. You would like to think you know what you would do in this situation, but as always there are extenuating circumstances. Some folks here (like yourself) saying "I'd do it and you should too" might catch some minor detail that throws up a flag and you're not going to open the door for the pope himself let alone this chick. And on the other hand, those saying "No way" might in the moment not even hesitate to open the door and help.
Who knows, it could be a set up and you don't open the door, bad guys shoot through the door kill you/wife/child/dog/house plant. You might open the door, it's not a set up, but you get sued in civil court for XYZ and a dumbass jury awards the girl Umpteen Bajillion dollars for your "act of kindness".
If, could, would, should, might...all armchair quarterbacking folks.
absolutely right
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 22:29
As it should be. But you leave the house every day. You take risks with your family's safety, do you not?
every time you leave the house there could be a guy parked in a car waiting to come in. So what's the difference between leaving your house to go to work and opening the door for a woman crying for help?
Awoken at 3am by screaming.. Going to work.. totally different scenario
There is always going to be risk, but you can minimize your risk by making smart decisions.
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:31
Amen. I don't know why that is such a hard thing for some folks to wrap their heads around. If feeling this way makes me a pussy/asshole/selfish person...well then I guess I have a few new adjectives to describe myself by on the next job application I fill out.
I just wonder how many folks saying they'd open the door and calling people pussys actually have kids, especially young ones.
Look, if you would have asked me the same question 11 months ago, maybe my answer would have been different. A lot has changed for me since then, and now I'm not only concerned with keeping my family safe, I'm also concerned with not getting into a shit storm that turns my life into something similar to George Zimmerman (yes, me NOT being in prison, and taking care of my family is still more important than your family).
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:31
What if the girl was screaming, and you could actually see the guy shuffling up your driveway for her, and he had a bloody hook for a hand?
PugnacAutMortem
07-12-2013, 22:34
What if the girl was screaming, and you could actually see the guy shuffling up your driveway for her, and he had a bloody hook for a hand?
Does he have an eye patch, a wooden leg and a parrot?
Three words and all her problems are solved: "SWEEP THE LEG!!!!!!!"
JMBD2112
07-12-2013, 22:35
What if the girl was screaming, and you could actually see the guy shuffling up your driveway for her, and he had a bloody hook for a hand?
Is it an evil black hook?
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:37
Does he have an eye patch, a wooden leg and a parrot?
Three words and all her problems are solved: "SWEEP THE LEG!!!!!!!"
Well I was trying to change the situation slightly where you know it's not a scam, but you also know for sure there's danger if you open the door, and you also know for sure she will die if you don't help. But you're putting your own family at risk.
i think most people would intervene, if armed. But that goes against the whole family risk line that they say they won't cross.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:38
Is it an evil black hook?
Yes. I was picturing the lovers lane story type murderer hook.
It depends. If it was myself or one of you guys, we'd probably let her in . . . and if it was a ruse we'd deal with it. You CANNOT expect the same reaction from a terrified retired couple in an isolated location after midnight who probably didn't even own pepperspray, let alone a handgun. Some people will not open the door to any stranger after dark, and if they are frail, elderly, and timid that is the best possible choice for them. A woman who'd just been brutalized a few minutes earlier is not going to be very articulate and will present as crazed and potentially violent. They probably couldn't understand half of what she was screaming and assumed she was on drugs. I can understand them being reluctant to open their door.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:41
I just wonder how many folks saying they'd open the door and calling people pussys actually have kids, especially young ones.
Look, if you would have asked me the same question 11 months ago, maybe my answer would have been different. A lot has changed for me since then, and now I'm not only concerned with keeping my family safe, I'm also concerned with not getting into a shit storm that turns my life into something similar to George Zimmerman (yes, me NOT being in prison, and taking care of my family is still more important than your family).
I'm not calling anyone a pussy, but I've got two young ones.
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:43
Well I was trying to change the situation slightly where you know it's not a scam, but you also know for sure there's danger if you open the door, and you also know for sure she will die if you don't help. But you're putting your own family at risk.
i think most people would intervene, if armed. But that goes against the whole family risk line that they say they won't cross.
Do you have kids? I'm just trying to determine if I'm the crazy one here, I mean even if I am, I won't change my stance, hook or not.
generalmeow
07-12-2013, 22:51
Do you have kids? I'm just trying to determine if I'm the crazy one here, I mean even if I am, I won't change my stance, hook or not.
Yes, I do.
You'd sit there 2 feet away with your gun, and let someone get murdered on your doorstep, rather than help them?
hurley842002
07-12-2013, 22:53
Yes, I do.
You'd sit there 2 feet away with your gun, and let someone get murdered on your doorstep, rather than help them?
I guess I am the crazy one....
Since we are playing what if, say I open the door, draw my weapon, and get a kaboom (since I do carry a Glock), let's also say I'm the pu$$y that many on the forum believe I may be, and captain hook is a bad a$$ wrestler like you are. What now? Hope my wife and one month old are tougher than I....
Guess she should have known how to wrestle.
Not going to stand by and not help. It's worth the cost. Lot of options. Wife backup with shotgun ect. Just because you don't open the door doesn't mean they can't force their way in. Someone who let's fear rule their life has lost. Get armed, get trained, have a plan and make a difference. I have kids and a wife. I don't see the scenario as black or white. If your not prepared might be best to stay inside. If I was armed with wife armed as backup I would be willing to offer my assistance. Thank God cops answer calls to homes that don't belong to their relatives.
centrarchidae
07-12-2013, 23:06
Not going to stand by and not help.... Thank God cops answer calls to homes that don't belong to their relatives.
How many cops answer calls to anybody's house at all with their wives and kids in the squad?
Well...this is a tough one, no doubt about it there. I am confident in my ability to defend myself and my family. I would open the door and yank her inside as quickly as possible after making damn sure I could confirm there was no one else outside with her. If I was unable to veryify all my blind spots were clear, then for certain would NOT open the door. You have to realize, being a good samaritan can also make you a victim. Sad, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Me and my family are priority #1.
muddywings
07-12-2013, 23:33
I guess this comes down to having a good porch light!! Well I'm calling it a nite...thanks for the lively discussion even if I do think it went south a bit here and there.
Colorado_Outback
07-12-2013, 23:36
I guess this comes down to having a good porch light!! Well I'm calling it a nite...thanks for the lively discussion even if I do think it went south a bit here and there.
Thats the only way we know how to do it :)
Great-Kazoo
07-12-2013, 23:38
Do you have a source for that?
im sure I can come up with stories about robbers coming in immediately after hubby leaves for work.
You went from a woman screaming for help. TO A HOME INVASION.?? 2 Entirely different scenarios. Stay with the original issue or start a new thread.
theGinsue
07-13-2013, 00:38
Yeah, if there was a pizza guy outside my door I'd probably opens to tell him he had the wrong house. Good point. But you're also making my point, because a pizza guy is infinitely less alarming than a crying woman, which is why nobody would use a crying woman to get you to open the door so they could rob you. There are much safer and easier (for them) ways to get you to open the door.
Such as just coming to your house during the day and ringing the doorbell.
Actually, it happens often enough to be a concern for folks in their homes/apartments. Here's an example after a QUICK Google search:
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/01/crying-teenaged-girl-used-as-lure-for-violent-home-invasion-71967.html
Ok, just becaus I like the what-if scenerios and like to chair fly life a bit let me change it up a bit.
Instead of naked rape victim at your door, there is banging at your door and when when you get down there you here a woman yell "help, I just got mugged and stabbed. I'm bleeding really bad..."
Go...
I've trained my family members that you NEVER (day or night) open the door for ANYONE you do not personally know and trust very well. PERIOD. And, if the situation raises any red flags then I'm 10'+ inside the door with a .45 and a phone handset. If it's at night, ALL outdoor lights are immediately turned on. And they remain on throughout the remainder of the night or until the situation is completely resolved. No exceptions policy on this.
I'm not afraid of anything here but I will always be as prepared as I can be and act in the smartest & safest manner possible for my family. Keeping all of the barriers in place between my family and potential risk is the smartest move I can make for their benefit. There are some very bad people out there who will do whatever it takes to take what is mine - including my families lives. They are getting craftier and will use peoples generosity & simpathy to make them victims. Until society cleans up it's act and I feel strangers are worthy of some degree of trust, I will continue to put my safety/my families safety above the needs of people I do not know.
ETA: Also, when someone comes to my front door that wasn't invited, I'm keeping an eye on my back door too in case the situation at the front door is meant to be a distraction.
sad to say in this day and age you just never know with people. lot of scary stories have started out similar to this. as much as i want to help everyone fact is my family comes first. i don't think my wife is trained well enough even with a shotgun for me to feel secure having her stand 10-15 feet back as i open the door. she would likely freeze if something happened and a guy came running in. from a front door you really can't tell if someone is pressed up against the wall or not ready to blow through the door. it would be tough to do safely without having both you and your spouse well trained. even throwing a blanket out is risky. best thing you can probably do is call the police let the girl know you have done so and tell her to press up against the door and you will continue to watch through the window well armed. if the guy shows up and approaches her then i would have to take the risk and open the door gun pointed and tell him to back off. i couldn't sit by and watch someone harm another, risk or not, but if it appears she is in no immediate danger i don't think i could risk opening the door.
BREATHER
07-13-2013, 06:40
We bash LEO's on this site too often. In my humble experience there are too many citizens that are asshole enough that they do not deserve to be "protected". Especially the non tax paying asshats that do nothing but smoke meth all day... Now, as a civilian, I would check out the situation as best I can under the circumstance before I come to any strangers aid, double that when my family and home is involved. Too many sick fucks out there that should be put away but because of "budget control" ain"t...
Great-Kazoo
07-13-2013, 06:55
Actually, it happens often enough to be a concern for folks in their homes/apartments. Here's an example after a QUICK Google search:
http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/01/crying-teenaged-girl-used-as-lure-for-violent-home-invasion-71967.html
I've trained my family members that you NEVER (day or night) open the door for ANYONE you do not personally know and trust very well. PERIOD. And, if the situation raises any red flags then I'm 10'+ inside the door with a .45 and a phone handset. If it's at night, ALL outdoor lights are immediately turned on. And they remain on throughout the remainder of the night or until the situation is completely resolved. No exceptions policy on this.
I'm not afraid of anything here but I will always be as prepared as I can be and act in the smartest & safest manner possible for my family. Keeping all of the barriers in place between my family and potential risk is the smartest move I can make for their benefit. There are some very bad people out there who will do whatever it takes to take what is mine - including my families lives. They are getting craftier and will use peoples generosity & simpathy to make them victims. Until society cleans up it's act and I feel strangers are worthy of some degree of trust, I will continue to put my safety/my families safety above the needs of people I do not know.
ETA: Also, when someone comes to my front door that wasn't invited, I'm keeping an eye on my back door too in case the situation at the front door is meant to be a distraction.
Why are they not on as SOP anyway, or did i misread that sentence? Our outside lights are either Motion sensor (solar power) or photoelectric, Around the dwelling, on when it gets dark, the rest on for movement.
Whistler
07-13-2013, 07:19
Not going to stand by and not help. It's worth the cost. Lot of options. Wife backup with shotgun ect. Just because you don't open the door doesn't mean they can't force their way in. Someone who let's fear rule their life has lost. Get armed, get trained, have a plan and make a difference. I have kids and a wife. I don't see the scenario as black or white. If your not prepared might be best to stay inside. If I was armed with wife armed as backup I would be willing to offer my assistance. Thank God cops answer calls to homes that don't belong to their relatives.
I asked my wife what SHE thought we should do and this is almost her exact response - she'd back me with the 12ga and I damn well better help the girl. I told her of the responses on this thread and she thinks it's a sad commentary on what we've become as a people. Have we really let the media, Liberals, criminals, politicians, et al turn our lives into cowering in a corner? Seeing only the bad and not being willing to help our neighbors despite some risk to ourselves?
To be fair we're older and have no children at home, two dogs and lots of guns. I don't blame anyone for making their personal choice not to render aid and don't think that makes you a pussy, I understand your position that your family comes first. I just find it sad that this is the low place we find ourselves as a Nation that you would have reason to think that way. I want my Country back.
Disclaimer: I am not now nor have ever been a wrestler.
I don't live in a rural area, so the dynamics are somewhat different. In my neighborhood, the neighbors pretty much all know each other, and they all keep an eye on each other's houses. If someone comes to my porch screaming and pounding on the door crying rape, there will be witnesses, and I will probably answer the door and render aid while exercising reasonable caution, including having the wife suitably armed and on the phone with 911. Circumstances will dictate actions, at least for me.
spqrzilla
07-13-2013, 08:31
guess i'm wrong then....live and learn
I'm not calling you "wrong". Its just that you need to be aware that fake "I'm in trouble" is the opening of a classic home invasion scenario. Caution.
muddywings
07-13-2013, 08:51
I'm not calling you "wrong". Its just that you need to be aware that fake "I'm in trouble" is the opening of a classic home invasion scenario. Caution.
<< former leo. I'm aware but would still do it "wrong" per the general consensus here. Also I don't have kids so I found that aspect enlightening.
buffalobo
07-13-2013, 09:16
We use extreme caution when responding/answering the door, even if expecting visitors. You get to stand on the porch and listen to the dog bark for a minute or two while I check you out from several spots inside the house. Maybe I answer, maybe I don't.
james_bond_007
07-13-2013, 09:20
...which is why nobody would use a crying woman to get you to open the door so they could rob you...
You are assuming ALL criminals come prepared with a well thought-out plan and that they have considered several approaches and picked the best one.
Some do.
Others don't.
There are others that decide on the spur of the moment "Hey there's a house over there. Let's go have some fun.", not knowing what they will do or how they will do it.
They sort of "make things up as they go along" with no real plan.
(Somehow a few scenes from "A Clockwork Orange" are shuffling through my memory).
If someone wanted to rob the house in the article, and it was really "that" rural, would-be robbers might just watch it for a while, determine the number of occupants, and wait until those occupants left...but that is the difference between a thought-out plan, and a spur of the moment decision.
Also, the article does not describe the occupants (unless I "missed it"). Were they young or old (80's ? ) Any other people in the house (children ? ) ? Had they had or known of anyone that had any similar situations "go bad....really bad "? Did they have any weapons ?
In my opinion, they didn't do anything really wrong...but they did not go out of their way to do anything exceptionally "right". They were sort of middle of the road ---"cautiously helpful" by calling the cops.
Many of us don't even like Craigslist customers to come to our house during the day when we are selling something, and we choose to meet them in a public place, for"safety" reasons etc.
Many forum members don't even like to meet new people at their house for "deals"...until they get to know them a bit.
So, I think we are ALL a bit cautious, to some extent.
Things have gotten to where you can't tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" sometimes.
I think we'd ALL like to help someone, providing we didn't have to risk our (and our family's ) safety with the "unknown".
I'm sure that if I heard a knock on the door and a screaming woman at midnight, I'd ALSO be cautious.
hurley842002
07-13-2013, 09:36
You are assuming ALL criminals come prepared with a well thought-out plan and that they have considered several approaches and picked the best one.
Some do.
Others don't.
There are others that decide on the spur of the moment "Hey there's a house over there. Let's go have some fun.", not knowing what they will do or how they will do it.
They sort of "make things up as they go along" with no real plan.
(Somehow a few scenes from "A Clockwork Orange" are shuffling through my memory).
If someone wanted to rob the house in the article, and it was really "that" rural, would-be robbers might just watch it for a while, determine the number of occupants, and wait until those occupants left...but that is the difference between a thought-out plan, and a spur of the moment decision.
Also, the article does not describe the occupants (unless I "missed it"). Were they young or old (80's ? ) Any other people in the house (children ? ) ? Had they had or known of anyone that had any similar situations "go bad....really bad "? Did they have any weapons ?
In my opinion, they didn't do anything really wrong...but they did not go out of their way to do anything exceptionally "right". They were sort of middle of the road ---"cautiously helpful" by calling the cops.
Many of us don't even like Craigslist customers to come to our house during the day when we are selling something, and we choose to meet them in a public place, for"safety" reasons etc.
Many forum members don't even like to meet new people at their house for "deals"...until they get to know them a bit.
So, I think we are ALL a bit cautious, to some extent.
Things have gotten to where you can't tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" sometimes.
I think we'd ALL like to help someone, providing we didn't have to risk our (and our family's ) safety with the "unknown".
I'm sure that if I heard a knock on the door and a screaming woman at midnight, I'd ALSO be cautious.
Good post!
I just want to make it clear, before my son came, I would have most definitely helped. That little guy has changed me a lot, and now all of my decisions are with him in mind.
With that said, I wanted to further expand on one of my previous comments. I don't trust the media, the courts or the politics of it all, to not hang me at the stakes for being a good Samaritan. I hate that the world has come to this, and I hate that it must be that way, but I'm no good to my family if I'm sitting in a prison cell. My firearms are to protect me and my loved ones, they are the only ones worth putting myself in Zimmerman's shoes.
I've seen a chick getting her ass beat in front of my door before. I opened the door with a Winchester Defender 12ga. Yea it saved her ass from being beaten a little. Hind sight being 20/20 I should have just called the cops and left it at that. It was put to me like this. Do you think this was the first time? Answer NO. Do you think it will be the last time. Answer NO. I couldn't help some dumb bitch who didn't want to help herself. Ended up having to move and I hate dealing with others drama. I wasn't wanting to be a tough guy I just acted without thinking it through.
I'm still not sure if I made the right choice or not years later. No way could I say anything about these homeowners other than they called 911 and thats all they "HAD" to do.
This whole scenario and discussion kind of reminds me of the Kitty Genovese ordeal... The article never said anything about the attacker being present at the home- just said the girl got away and went to a house for help... In that scenario, I would arm myself, call 911, and probably try to help the girl- but would remain cautious in case it's a set up. Then again, I have my brother to back me up and he can be armed to the teeth in a moment's notice. I understand the what-ifs, and that's fun, but in real life you have to judge the situation, you can't just say "I'd do this"- too many variables, I'm simply stating that I would much rather help, in case it's the real deal and not some ploy. Burke put it best "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing." However, I would consider protection of your family and a call to 911 doing something... not pussy, just erring on the side of caution. I don't have kids though so I can't really blame someone for putting their children before being a good Samaritan. But for me, what I'd do, most likely would involve help rather than suspicion, but that's because I live in Evergreen, and this kind of thing hardly ever happens, and it's even less likely to be some gangland feint attempt at a strong arm home invasion.
ETA: I have two mitigating factors though in my case- I live across the street from a firefighter, have a guy down the street who has guns, and I'm less than a mile from both a fire station, ambulance barn, and JCSO mountain precinct, the response time would be next to nothing here. [Coffee]
I grew up in Oklahoma. The exact same scenario happened at a rural house a few miles north of town. When the homeowner opened the door he was greeted with a shotgun blast from someone in hiding. And this was well over 30 years ago.
I'll be goddamned if I'll open my door in the middle of the night for ANYBODY until my M1 carbine loaded with the nasty hollowpoints is in my hand, the chamber is charged, safety's off, and the laser is on. Meth whores feel no guilt about being bait.
I just love this handy lil' feller.....
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20M1%20carbines/DSC_0496.jpg
I grew up in Oklahoma. The exact same scenario happened at a rural house a few miles north of town. When the homeowner opened the door he was greeted with a shotgun blast from someone in hiding. And this was well over 30 years ago.
I'll be goddamned if I'll open my door in the middle of the night for ANYBODY until my M1 carbine loaded with the nasty hollowpoints is in my hand, the chamber is charged, safety's off, and the laser is on. Meth whores feel no guilt about being bait.
I was going to post something similar. The "lady is distress" ruse is very old and highly effective. The values that make us defend our families are the same values that would encourage us to help out a victim.
I agree with you 100%. I would be armed and attempt to limit the risk to myself. Maybe exiting the house and locking the door behind me so my family is safe.
Of course you never know who is at the back door either...
ETA: I have two mitigating factors though in my case- I live across the street from a firefighter, have a guy down the street who has guns, and I'm less than a mile from both a fire station, ambulance barn, and JCSO mountain precinct, the response time would be next to nothing here. [Coffee]
Doesn't matter where the cops are honestly. In rondogs scenario the ambulances just wouldn't have to drive as far to grab your body.
Everybody wants to be a hero and I like the idea too. But at the end of the day bringing her inside does nothing but open you up to risk. Opening the door opens you up to risk of attack as well even if it isn't her that's in on it. The guy could have followed with a knife and while you are wrapping a towel around her the guy stabs you in the back or shoots you. Then the door is open, he has his victim, the rest of your family is at risk and you are now critically injured or dead.
I'll keep my door closed unless she is being attacked outside my door but even then I question it.
Look at the people in the trayvon martin deal. They called the cops and are now witnesses. If a hero ran out of his house and shot either martin or Zimmerman that guy could be in a world or hurt and have the legal and financial burden on him instead of the two involved.
I know each scenario is different and j think the ultimate goal is to never be in any of those scenarios but if I end up in one, my own ass and my family comes first.
Maybe exiting the house and locking the door behind me so my family is safe.
Oh no, fuck that! BAD idea!!! BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!! Charging out into the unknown, and locking your escape route behind you?
Ever take first aid training and been cautioned about taking chances to help someone? Ever heard of the "now we have to rescue the rescuer" scenario?
my own ass and my family comes first
Bottom line, right here.
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/naked-swimmer-distracts-homeowner-during-robbery-104950590.html
Careful of those womens. If one takes her clothes of you probably gunna get robbed!
In other news... to cover your ass after staring at boobs while all your shit is stolen, make sure you claim that you invited her to church after.
Wife & family really believe that. Serious.
Lol, let's go to church now that you swam in my pool naked. What he really asked was if she wanted to cum inside.
wctriumph
07-14-2013, 15:49
I have no idea how I would react. I guess I will find out when it happens to me.
I am all for protecting the weak and I and my brother were raised to stand up to brutality and we have stepped in and halted situations both together and individually. It is a character trait that worries my wife to no end, but she knows to stay out of the way and seek help.
RblDiver
07-14-2013, 16:56
As others have said, I definitely can't blame the homeowners for this.
Would I help? Maybe. If so, definitely armed and cautious. But I can't judge them, nor know exactly what I'd do in that situation.
As for those saying that it couldn't possibly be a robbery attempt, there was a story of the woman swimming in a guy's pool naked while her boyfriend robbed them of some precious jewelry. Is it different? Yes, but it is classic distraction/sleight of hand. Perhaps you'd be looking for the bad rapist in the front yard, while her accomplice sneaks in the back, or she "cases" the place looking for possible modes of entry/defenses/etc for a future attempt.
I have to admit, my stepdaughter is a heroin addict, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear of her doing something like this. So I'm a bit jaded about this subject.
Kraven251
07-14-2013, 19:09
1. call 911, keep them on the phone
2. get a blanket
3. turn on the flood lights
4. answer the door with my pistol
5. after determining it isn't a setup, get her inside and covered up until the police show.
I don't believe in not rendering aid, but I also don't believe in being a target.
centrarchidae
08-25-2013, 01:47
Bumped instead of starting a new thread, or "Why Centrarchidae doesn't like to open his door..."
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fake-mormon-missionaries-rob-home-gunpoint-113008800.html?vp=1
clublights
08-25-2013, 04:25
It has been a scenario for obtaining access for a home invasion. I'm not going to criticize the homeowners.
It is my understanding that this HAS been used before...The bad guys have faked a woman in distress to pull off a home invasion....
clublights
08-25-2013, 04:28
That being said.........
I'd personally rather take the chance that the girl is lying to then live with the regret that she was telling the truth and I didn't help enough
Easy for me to say as a single man with no children . ... yeah I get that
rockhound
08-25-2013, 08:21
Neighbor of mine used to beat his wife, stopped him on two occasions, stopped a mugger on my second date with my wife. That being said i am not as young as i used to be nor as nearly bad ass, so now i am armed,
It is hard to say how i would react, suffice to say i would be ready to defend myself
A girl I grew up with (April) got into drugs in her late teens and ended up with some real shit bags. At the age of 19 she was shooting heroin and tweaked out 24/7. She managed to meet the king of shit bags who devised a plan to pay for their habits and apparently this plan worked for over a year.
Their plan was simple. April would get dropped on the side of the freeway and pretend to be crying. Someone would drive by and stop when they saw a girl in distress. April would explain that she got into a fight with her boyfriend and he threw her out of the car. The person would feel very bad and let April in the car. Once in the car Aprils boyfriend would come up behind them and April would pull a gun on her helper.
April would demand her helper drive to an ATM where she would have the person withdrawal as much money as they could from the ATM. Once the withdrawals were made they would drive down the street where April would put her victim in the trunk of his own car, get back in her boyfriends car and take off with their earnings.
This gig went on for over a year. Apparently they got more and more brazen with their activities as time went on. The last person they jacked ended up spending two days in his own trunk while April and her boyfriend were driving around in his car. They stopped each day and had him withdrawal money from the ATM. While April and her boyfriend were passed out after shooting a bunch of shit the guy managed to escape from the trunk and call the cops.
As much as we all want to help people we definitely need to be careful in how we do so.
Bumped instead of starting a new thread, or "Why Centrarchidae doesn't like to open his door..."
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/fake-mormon-missionaries-rob-home-gunpoint-113008800.html?vp=1
No need for a new thread, that fits perfectly here IMO! Thanks for posting that.
God bless the guy for trying to help her, but you'd think getting shot would make him approach the situation differently? Dunno.
Garcia-Chavez has a long criminal record and was wanted on two outstanding warrants.
He was illegally in the U.S. after previously being deported.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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