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KoalaCowboy
01-23-2009, 09:28
Fellow AR-15 shooters, I received an email from a buddy of mine and the info he passed on is extremely scary and needs to be known by everyone in the state of CO:

IF this crapola passes, it is the first step in a long line of taxes that will make the former CCCP look like Fischer-Price playschool toys.

The Details:
denver and the west
Colo. Dems see car use as alternative to gas tax

By John Ingold
The Denver Post
Posted: 01/22/2009 12:30:00 AM MST

Nestled in the details of a major transportation proposal this year is an idea that could revolutionize how Colorado pays for its road and bridge projects.
The proposal, from statehouse Democrats, calls for pilot projects to study whether the state should do away with its gas tax and adopt a system in which drivers are charged based on how many miles they drive.
"What policymakers are looking at is a sustainable revenue source that they can count on," said Jim Whitty, an Oregon Department of Transportation official who has become a guru of mileage-based fees.
States across the country are struggling with the weakening of the gas tax as a revenue stream, due to more fuel-efficient vehicles and the political difficulty of raising taxes to keep up with inflation. Colorado is one of several states, including Florida, North Carolina and Ohio, looking at implementing a mileage-based charge on drivers.
But so far no state has actually made the switch or even progressed much beyond the pilot-study phase, demonstrating just how revolutionary — and challenging — the concept is.
For starters, it would require a whole new set of technology — still being developed — both inside cars and at other points to measure and report miles traveled. And critics raise a host of concerns, from whether such a system would adversely affect rural residents who drive more by necessity to whether the system would allow government to improperly track people's movements.
"I think it's unworkable and unwieldy," said Senate Minority Leader Josh Penry, R-Fruita. "Who pays for the transponders? How do you track them? There are a lot of large logistical questions that overwhelm it."
In the suddenly hot world of mileage-based fee studies, Oregon has been the clear leader. The state launched a pilot project on the idea in 2006, and this year the state's governor is pushing for lawmakers to create a long-term plan for the switch.
Whitty said one of the chief benefits of a mileage-based system is its malleability. It can be customized to charge people more for driving at rush hour or less for driving in rural areas. It can tax Hummers at a higher rate than Priuses.
"Because this involves computers, you could do any kind of formulas you want," Whitty said. ". . . Until there are a bunch of proposals to fight over, a lot of these criticisms are premature."
Colorado state Rep. Joe Rice, D-Littleton, one of the architects of the Democratic transportation proposal known as FASTER, said a mileage-based charge also would be better than the gas tax in another way: It creates a clearer link between how much people use the state's transportation system and how much they pay.
Rice acknowledged that implementing such a complex system would take plenty of time and study. But he said that effort is worth it to find a more sustainable way to put transportation dollars into the state's coffers.
"We've got to figure out something besides the gas tax," Rice said. "In my view, we're not going to get to it in five years or 10 years. But I think we've got to start."
A report released late last year by the Brookings Institution might give lawmakers pause. The report found that the number of vehicle miles traveled nationwide has fallen. In Colorado, the 7.1 percent drop since 2006 was the third-highest in the nation.
Robert Puentes, the study's author, attributed the drop to greater use of public transportation. Mileage fees, Puentes said, "should be part and parcel of conversations around the future of transportation in this country. But if we're looking at this as a one-to-one substitute for the gas tax, we're kidding ourselves."
Rice and others working on the transportation proposal say they only want to empower communities to think boldly about how to fund transportation.
"Whether using Oregon as a model or not," state Sen. Dan Gibbs, D-Silverthorne, said, "I think we should really be exploring alternative transportation funding mechanisms."
John Ingold: 303-954-1068 or jingold@denverpost.com (jingold@denverpost.com)"

For any of you who may also ride motorcycles, can you imagine this becoming law? How many of us would do all the fun riding we do??

It is definitely time to take back our country from the scumbags who think it is their to do with as they see fit!

[Bang]

robsterclaw
01-23-2009, 11:27
Yep the liberals whine about the global warming and how we just have to cut down on driving. Then they are all whining about they don't have as much of our money to spend, so it's time to take some more.

Say good bye to pizza delivery if something like this goes through. The pizza companies aren't reimbursing drivers for using their cars as it is. They aren't going to pony up if this goes through. After 7 years, I'm looking at other options for extra cash because the high amount of losers not tipping has increased so much that many nights I don't even make minimum wage after vehicle expenses.

Red_Chili
01-23-2009, 12:17
Kewl, if this goes through we will see a sudden influx of conservatives in CO government next election...

KoalaCowboy
01-23-2009, 12:37
Kewl, if this goes through we will see a sudden influx of conservatives in CO government next election...

No doubt there will be a shake-up. Sadly, I am not even sure the 'conservatives' are good choices anymore.

I really think TERM LIMITS for all politicians is in order, so as to limit the "power grab" and eliminate folks from being career politicians that are only looking out for their own self-interests.

Another item that is absolutely necessary (through constututional amendment) is Line Item Veto.

Paradude54
01-23-2009, 14:10
No doubt there will be a shake-up. Sadly, I am not even sure the 'conservatives' are good choices anymore.

I really think TERM LIMITS for all politicians is in order, so as to limit the "power grab" and eliminate folks from being career politicians that are only looking out for their own self-interests.

Another item that is absolutely necessary (through constututional amendment) is Line Item Veto.

Problem is that the same people that would receive term limits are the ones that have to vote on them and you know that they're not going to give up their bread and butter.

As for the article I found it amazing that anyone could think that this would make any sense. The cost would be outrageous and would tax only CO residents. And a hummer already pays more tax than a prius anyway, since there's just a weee bit of difference in their gas mileage![Bang]

Irving
01-23-2009, 14:50
I don't get upset about stuff like this until I see actual legislation about it. I don't see this as being very viable. I'm not too worried about it.

The1andOnlyKC
01-23-2009, 15:42
Umm thats cool. It wont fix anything. There are so many illegals driving around with unregistered vehicles its not even fuunny. What about all the wear and tear their vehicles do and they dont pay a dime. They either steal plates, or just make fake temp tags and never pay a dime.

So alot of these same illegals drive commercial vehicles for a job. Anybody that knows, knows these vehicles are extremely expensive to register. So what do they do you ask? Well they go get a temp tag for $2.00 when it expires and DMV will no longer give them a temp tag they "sell" their truck and trailer to their cousin, brother, wife, daughter, son, neighbor ect.... And go get more temp tags for $2.00 each and never register this vehicle. When they get tired of doing this they just take someone elses plates and stick it on there.

They are HUGE menace.

Plus they dont insure their vehicles and they dont have drivers license, and they change their names whenever they want. So it is impossible to figure out who you are really dealing with. Do they care? Nah, or at least they dont act like it.

Aardvark
01-23-2009, 19:07
The way I see it, it's never really about fixing anything but lining the politickan coffers. They want the money is all... I agree the illegals are a huge problem, but since the chosen one has the office, we're all screwed.

ssf467
01-23-2009, 19:40
Feed the babies
Who don't have enough to eat
Shoe the children
With no shoes on their feet
House the people
Livin' in the street
Oh, oh, there's a solution

currahee
01-23-2009, 20:41
EErrrrrr! Last time I looked around- there were as many Texas and other state plates driving around as CO plates- How you gonna tag them for road repairs?

Fourthwind
01-23-2009, 21:32
The basterds will always find ways to take more of your money. What should be scaring you is the devices they want to install for TRACKING you.

68Charger
01-23-2009, 22:52
EErrrrrr! Last time I looked around- there were as many Texas and other state plates driving around as CO plates- How you gonna tag them for road repairs?

you also have to remember that many stationed here are allowed to keep their home state plates on.. I know several with Texas plates that are serving at Ft. Carson...

I try not to judge based on outward appearances, since I'd rather not be judged that way myself...

I have been known to have fun with some Texans- when they get too proud of their state... "be careful, or we'll divide Alaska in two, and you'll be the THIRD largest state" usually knocks them down to reality..[LOL]

I also agree with the statement about the tracking devices, especially when they're tied to commerce..
“He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:16-17

currahee
01-24-2009, 08:45
I think you missed my point- nothing at all against Texans or anywhere else.
If Colorado starts some kind of tracking- how do you account for all the out of staters that drive our roads? How do they pay for the road upkeep since they help tear the roads up with use also? If you get rid of the gas tax you gonna make it illegal to drive a non Colorado registered car in the state? How do you even begin to enforce something like that? Depending on the time of year- there are as many visitors here as live here in my neck of the woods.

68Charger
01-24-2009, 09:32
guess I confused Errrrr with Arrrgh.. [Coffee]

I understand the issue- and the fuel tax is a simple method that works- but because their revenue is declining, they're looking for a way to protect it..

they could do toll roads, but outside of that, fuel tax is a simple, proportionate way to generate revenue based on road usage... bigger, heavier vehicles theoretically produce more wear & tear- and they tend to use more fuel...

E-470 is the only toll road in Colorado I've been on, and it's Stupid... makes you stop every few miles to collect a toll? just dumb... if you're going to do a toll road (which I'm NOT in favor of), then do it like the NJ turnpike.. get a ticket when you get on (and it shows where you got on), then cruise to your destination, and when you get off, they charge you for the difference between where you got on & got off

ssf467
01-24-2009, 11:36
It only the beginning. Carbon taxes are around the corner. Paid to a global central bank.

sniper_tim
01-24-2009, 23:49
I don't get upset about stuff like this until I see actual legislation about it. I don't see this as being very viable. I'm not too worried about it.

Get upset about it, this is liberal policy and is coming straight from the Whitehouse:

From "urban policy" on whitehouse.gov:
"Build More Livable and Sustainable Communities: Our communities will better serve all of their residents if we are able to leave our cars to walk, bicycle and access other transportation alternatives. President Obama will re-evaluate the transportation funding process to ensure that smart growth considerations are taken into account."

Ironic, couple days after election, BO chartered a commercial jet for his trip to DC. His wife chartered a second private jet a couple hours later to DC cause she didn't want to leave at the same time as her husband. Liberal policy doesn't apply to those who create it, only to us pheasants. I would bet that in a single day, the Obama family used more fuel than my family will in a lifetime.

sniper_tim
01-24-2009, 23:52
you also have to remember that many stationed here are allowed to keep their home state plates on.. I know several with Texas plates that are serving at Ft. Carson...

I try not to judge based on outward appearances, since I'd rather not be judged that way myself...



I have a neighbor living a couple doors down from me who has never changed his plates on his vehicle since he moved here shortly after I did 8 years ago. He is NOT in the military and openly brags about keeping his vehicles registered in from a "cheap state" and its not TX.

Sorry, I don't buy into that touchy-feely slogan about not judging a book by its cover.

theGinsue
01-25-2009, 12:41
If you control transportation and the ability of the people to freely move around, you control the people.

As far as toll roads, CO has been looking at "privatizing" our roadways for several years. They would lease the "major: roadways to companies who would then install toll systems. They would be responsible for maintaining the roads - of course, they'd also get govt. subsidies to help fund the repairs.

(German accent) Papers Please!

Mtn.man
01-25-2009, 20:35
Ritter will save the day...

KoalaCowboy
01-26-2009, 23:10
I don't get upset about stuff like this until I see actual legislation about it. I don't see this as being very viable. I'm not too worried about it.

Agreed. I'm not 'upset' per se, but rather dismayed at yet another STUPID 'plan' that the damn libs are considering that would hurt everyone who has CO plates, but wouldn't really resolve the damn problem(s).

If only they'd get it...you cannot keep taxing. Eventually people will say enough and move out of CO. Enough people do that and there is NO tax base whatsoever.

As for Term Limits, yeah...it's a pipedream for sure, but it sure would be nice!! :)

Main gist of my original post was to get people talking, thinking, etc.

On a brighter note; I got to do some shooting with my M4 on Saturday. Got the rifle sighted in (after having the scope lasered since it was so out of whack; thanks Scope Whisperer!), was shooting a 1-1/2" bullseye grouping @ 100m

More shooting coming up this coming weekend...wahoo!

SNAFU
01-27-2009, 10:35
Feed the babies
Who don't have enough to eat
Shoe the children
With no shoes on their feet
House the people
Livin' in the street
Oh, oh, there's a solution

Haven't heard Robin Trower in a while,,opps time to fly....

So if we all ride the bus,what are they going to tax next...

KoalaCowboy
01-27-2009, 13:07
Haven't heard Robin Trower in a while,,opps time to fly....

So if we all ride the bus,what are they going to tax next...

The air we breathe?

Irving
01-27-2009, 13:24
Get upset about it, this is liberal policy and is coming straight from the Whitehouse:

Liberal policy doesn't apply to those who create it, only to us pheasants.

Pheasants are for the birds!!


Also, it doesn't matter if a bill is proposed if it has no backing and doesn't go any where. I can propose a bill every year to ban women from wearing under garments, but that doesn't mean shit. Also, it's difficult to buy into the propaganda that it is coming straight from the white house, when it is meant for Colorado.

Dr_Fwd
01-27-2009, 17:26
Seriously, FUCK THAT!! It's not even funny any more!