Talk to me about big 'ol gun safes

[sic_semper_tyrannis]

I am long overdue for a real gun safe for all my crap. So far I've been using a cheapo Stack-On that isn't even fire rated, and putting my faith in my homeowners & Armscare insurance in the event of bad juju. That's no longer good enough, and I want a real safe. A big one that can hold all my long guns, cases (and cases & cases & cases) of ammo, and other household valuables. I anticipated a budget of ~$1k for such a purchase, but after doing some research it seems like I might have to spend a good deal more than that. What is everyone out there using? Where did you get it? How much? How did you move & install it? Any recommendations? I would much prefer to purchase locally instead of worrying about shipping. I do not need the "top of the line" anything, nor do I want the bottom budget deal. I guess you could say I'm looking for a "mid-range" safe. I think. Thanks.

[02ducky]

Talk with Opie11 he has some and delivers them as well. I have 800lb safe that I bought years ago from somebody broke into my house and shot it with a shotgun. Only damage was from the pellets flying all over the place. Well worth the investment IMHO.

Have you though about using the stack on for your ammo?

[stevew]

I went with Patriot:
http://www.patriotsafe.com/
Prices are on the website. Had them deliver it. Happy with it. Made in Usa. Fire rated.

[TFOGGER]

Mine is a Cannon, from the guy in Berthoud..

http://www.highplainssafe.com/

[HoneyBadger]

Please use the search function... There are probably 50 threads exactly like this one already. [Bang]

[sellersm]

Click on "Advanced Search" and type the word "safe" in and search. Discussed many times here, with very good discussions! Here's a sample: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/37812-New-gun-safe-which-and-why

Dang it HoneyBadger, ya beat me to it!! [LOL]

[Aloha_Shooter]

I got my gun safe (4' wide by 6' tall by 2' deep) from Sportsman's Steel in Utah. http://sportsmansteelsafes.com/frontier-large-gun-safe.html



2" Jig-Saw Door - 90 Min Fire
2.25" Thick Fire Walls
2" Step Door - 5 3/4" Overall Thickness
5 Prong Spindle Wheel - Gold or Silver
Pistol Holsters on Door
Royal Interior - All Walls Carpet
Two Relockers - Brass-Arm & Indep.
Anniversary Silk-Screen Pin-stripe
Double Fireproofing (Door and Body)
4-Level Spring-Loaded Relocker
Main Expand Gasket - Polusal®



Change Combo Key / Feature
Brass-Arm Relocker in Lock
Sargent & Greenleaf Combo Lock & Key (American-Made) Optional: LG-1 Digital Lock (American-Quick-Access)
Top & Bottom Bolt System
Double Expand Gaskets & Bolt Down Kit
Convert Interior (Guns & Shelves - Extra gun rack)
Life Time Warranty -- Includes Fire Warranty



http://sportsmansteelsafes.com/images_safes/frontier_open-495.jpg
I got the digital lock. Think I paid around $3400 but they're on sale right now for $3000. They delivered to my garage door and the deliveryman was actually kind enough to drop it just inside the garage door where I was going to place it anyway.

[Rooskibar03]

IMHO Liberty is the way to go. But brand aside what ever size you think you need, get bigger. My safe is only a year old and its full and I swore there was no way that was going to happen.

[TAR31]

IMHO Liberty is the way to go. But brand aside what ever size you think you need, get bigger.
this

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Liberty fatboy.

[Scogin]

Fort Knox is spendy but is the best safe out there for a "gun safe".

[colorider]

Another vote for liberty. I got the size below the fatboy jr and regret it. Should have gone with the jr or the fatboy. They fill up FAST! The rifle suggested amount is absurd. You can fit about half that. in there. Unless you like scratching up your stuff. Also ammo and gadgets tend to fill the emply spaces nicely and fast. !

[rondog]

When you use the term "real safe", you enter into a whole 'nother realm of expensive, like Graffunder. Even the best affordable units are still just Residential Security Containers. That said, my goal is a Liberty Franklin 50. It's a taller version of the Fatboy. And I doubt you'll get "cases and cases and cases" of ammo in there as well, depending on sizes an quantity.

[Delfuego]

Mark with Safe & Warm in Buena Vista is a super nice guy (and a shooter). They sell Liberty and others, have good prices and free delivery.

[Scogin]

Here is a good informational video explaining what to look for in a gun safe. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8
It is done by Weapons Education.

[crashdown]

Liberty safe from Gander, and Clif Hamblen to move it for you ( if no forum or industry partners can do it)
My advice is based on some sort of budget and personal experience.

[rondog]

Mark with Safe & Warm in Buena Vista is a super nice guy (and a shooter). They sell Liberty and others, have good prices and free delivery.
He's gonna get my business, if I can ever afford to. Free delivery is huge to me. Plus his pricing and inventory.

[Delfuego]

Dont give your money to Gander please. Their safes aren't "real" Liberty safes either, cheap Chinese with a Liberty sticker.

Talk to Mark... he's the man...

And remember mid-range is $2-$4K

[sic_semper_tyrannis]

Good God some of those prices are way more than I was expecting to spend. I looked at that Liberty Fatboy and it looks like it is just the right size, and not too terrible pricewise. Would a place in Buena Vista really deliver all the way out here for free?? That seems like a heck of a trip. I've only been to one safe store, and it was the Superior/Champion place over at I-70 & Holly, with the gigantic yellow safe parked out front of the warehouse. The guy that showed me around was extremely helpful, but I was truly clueless and didn't really know what I was looking for. I've also been to places like Gander Mountain, Murdoch's, Bass Pro, etc., but I could tell right away that all those chain stores have a very limited selection, and all of it is entry level stuff.

[crashdown]

Dont give your money to Gander please. Their safes aren't "real" Liberty safes either, cheap Chinese with a Liberty sticker.

Talk to Mark... he's the man...

And remember mid-range is $2-$4K

Source on that? My Liberty has made in the USA labels all over it, and Liberty said it was made in USA when I called them with some questions.
I'm no Gander fan by any means, but their price was hundreds lower than anyone else I shopped on the same models.

[patrick0685]

costco has some nice safes

[funkymonkey1111]

Good God some of those prices are way more than I was expecting to spend. I looked at that Liberty Fatboy and it looks like it is just the right size, and not too terrible pricewise. Would a place in Buena Vista really deliver all the way out here for free?? That seems like a heck of a trip. I've only been to one safe store, and it was the Superior/Champion place over at I-70 & Holly, with the gigantic yellow safe parked out front of the warehouse. The guy that showed me around was extremely helpful, but I was truly clueless and didn't really know what I was looking for. I've also been to places like Gander Mountain, Murdoch's, Bass Pro, etc., but I could tell right away that all those chain stores have a very limited selection, and all of it is entry level stuff.
Yes, he will deliver. Instead of asking us, ask him. I have a Sturdy on order. It should be here in a few weeks

[muddywings]

costco has some nice safes

I bought one. I'm happy. Not very high end but fits nicely in the office and quick to open with the electronic keypad. If you got the cash, go big. If you don't, this is not a bad option (I supplement it with a Foscam motion detection camera).
I think if regardless of the safe, you should budget for one or two cameras in the house (one sitting next to the safe) that can take pictures. When my Foscam has motion detection turned on and it will email me pictures. Generally I don't do that for every day but if we're gone for a weekend, I turn that on. Those cameras only cost $70-100 and worth the price IMHO

[bnred9]

Yes some of the lower end Liberty Safe are made in China.

Liberty's Response:
We strive to be upfront regarding those safe still made as imports. Currently, we produce 80% of our safes in the US, while 20% are imported from China. Due to demand, we have added another production line here the USA and a second shift for that new line. The goal continues to make all products in the US.

[Holger Danske]

I had friends lose there safes in Waldo Canyon and Black Forest fires. I think a good fire rating is important and will possibly get you through a house fire. If you face a wildfire take your guns with you.

[MarkCO]

I investigate fires professionally, and I have seen a lot of safes in houses that were burnt to the ground. If the house burns to the ground, your guns will be ruined in any consumer style safe. Not until you get up to $3K or more are you really gaining any fire protection that will withstand a grounder. Pretty much any fire rating is sufficient for a gun safe in a metro residential city. I think the Liberty brand is one of the better ones.

A few tips...wherever you place the safe, elevate it a few inches off the floor. Best bet if you have something over 400 pounds is to build a 2x6 pedestal that spans several floor joists. Lowest level of the house, but slightly elevated. That way, in a grounder, you won't end up with a safe full of water. Don't store primer or gunpowder in the safe. A small amount of ammunition is okay, but not cases of it.

[BuffCyclist]

I bought a Winchester "24 gun" safe from Tractor Supply last year on Black Friday for around $500. It was too good of a deal to pass up, and I wasn't really in the market for them yet. At the time, it was huge, but now that I've had it for a while, it is really quite small. I really like the door panel storage on it, keep a few pistols in that and lots of other things (cash, silver rounds, spare locks, shotgun shells for the SD gun etc). If I had done it all over, I would have spent at least $1k and gotten one much bigger. Then again, the closet where I put the safe only allowed the size of safe that I got, and even that one I had to cut into the door frame a bit to allow the safe hinges to clear. It is drilled to the concrete slab and anchored that way.

It works for opportunistic thieves, ya know, the type that see an ipod sitting on a table and realize it'd be easy to swipe it. But I doubt it would do much in a real fire or if someone had the right tools.

I keep chamber locks on the guns in the safe, redundant yes, but I don't need those guns for SD so its okay. I also got dessicant and a heating rod (go as big as possible on that) because I have an evaporative cooler that adds humidity to the air in the summer.

When I was researching them, its best to put the safes on an outside wall if you're worried about fire (because it would be on the perimeter of the fire and probably not as prone to the high heat that the middle of the house would reach). Also, have it so the door opens towards a wall, so that you can't stick a pry bar in the opening. Mine is a pain in the ass to get into, but thats good.

And to echo what MarkCO said, no powder or primers in the safe. I keep any ammo in my safe in smaller lots in ammo cans, just so I can grab it easier for the range.

[Delfuego]

Englewood Lock & Key on Broadway sells American Security, nice guys, nice safes, but not cheap.

[Dave]

MarkCO: What level fire rating would you recommend? I was looking at Patriot safes and theirs say 2 hours at 1880* F. Not sure if that is high end or low end. I know it's higher than ones I looked at at Gander, but I was looking at under $1k ones then.

http://www.patriotsafe.com/Collector-39-gun-safe-2-hour-fire-1880-2013-LEO-Special-_p_491.html This is what I am thinking.

[Rooskibar03]

Mark with Safe & Warm in Buena Vista is a super nice guy (and a shooter). They sell Liberty and others, have good prices and free delivery.

Got mine from Mark. Top notch guy, great price and excellent service.

My problem is do I sell my current safe and go bigger or just add another one to it?

[newracer]

dont buy another safe.

Build a vault in your basement and get a vault door.

much better investment.

This is what I will be doing, hopefully soon.

[BuffCyclist]

dont buy another safe.

Build a vault in your basement and get a vault door.

much better investment.

That is assuming they HAVE a basement.

I wish I had a basement. [Cry]

[MarkCO]

MarkCO: What level fire rating would you recommend? I was looking at Patriot safes and theirs say 2 hours at 1880* F. Not sure if that is high end or low end. I know it's higher than ones I looked at at Gander, but I was looking at under $1k ones then.

http://www.patriotsafe.com/Collector-39-gun-safe-2-hour-fire-1880-2013-LEO-Special-_p_491.html This is what I am thinking.

That is a high rating, but in all honesty, won't protect most guns in a sustained fire. The UL ratings have to keep paper from charring for 1 or 2 hours at 1700 or 1850 degrees and the interior temperature can not surpass 350. At 350 for 1 hour, your wood stocks are trashed and the polymer have all melted. In tests, for 15 minutes, a 1 hour and 2 hour fire rating kept the interior temperatures below 200F and were about even. 15 minutes is all you really need for a house fire in a city. Those higher fire ratings buy you maybe 5 to 10 more minutes under 200, but in a grounder, they will not protect the wood and plastic from damage.

[Monky]

This is what I got..

http://www.libertysafe.com/safe-national-safes-ps-3.html

Yes... Mark (guy in B Vista) will deliver out here for free.. for an extra few $$$ he'll put it inside.. he's a master at moving those things around.. even a heavy bastard like my safe.

[Dave]

So is fire rating even something to consider if you aren't storing cash and documents in it? Sounds like anything beyond a kitchen fire is going to ruin an AR even in a HD safe.

[MarkCO]

So is fire rating even something to consider if you aren't storing cash and documents in it? Sounds like anything beyond a kitchen fire is going to ruin an AR even in a HD safe.

I would not get a safe without a fire rating. However, anything beyond the standard 1 hour 1200 degrees is probably not going to help in the case of a fully involved long lasting fire. Even in the city, in the case of arson (if done "well", most of which are not) you won't reap the benefits.

Adding a layer of sheetrock to the room in which the safe is located would be a better use of money. Keeping incendiaries at least 6 feet away, keeping it away from water, electric and gas lines can't hurt either.

Fatboy Jr and Fatboys are probably the best deal for a general use safe IMHO. I have a Liberty Franklin that I got on a scratch and dent for less than the price of the Revere or I would have gone a bit cheaper myself. The Fatboy was not made when I got mine or that is what I would have.

Locking lugs on at least 2 sides was important to me, which in the Liberty line starts at the Revere. Anything Revere or up is fine.

[USAFGopherMike]

Yep, I started going down the vault rabbit hole:

http://www.northwestsheltersystems.com/gunvaultrooms.php
http://www.rhinovault.com/index.html

Some conversation about vaults here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-106364.html
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=11612.0

This is scary:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2012/07/27/unsafe-gun-safes-can-be-opened-by-a-three-year-old/

Yeah, I want one in the house I plan to retire in.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I always wonder.. With all of your firearms on the bottom of lake, what do you put in the safe?

[MarkCO]

I always wonder.. With all of your firearms on the bottom of lake, what do you put in the safe?

Pictures of you with magazines dated June 30, 2013. Really? [dig]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Pictures of you with magazines dated June 30, 2013. Really? [dig]

Hahaha.. Although why would one want to have a proof of how many mags he/she has before July 1st?

[ChunkyMonkey]

Tag for future reading.. So far plenty if info on this thread.

[MarkCO]

Hahaha.. Although why would one want to have a proof of how many mags he/she has before July 1st?

Thus the guy digging the hole...

[ChunkyMonkey]

I cannot see smileys on tapatalk... ;)

[newracer]

The empty boxes to look cool.

[rondog]

Oh man, a vault! We have this big L-shaped patio on the back of our house. My dream is to dig that all out and build two large rooms to extend the basement, with a new patio on top, and make one of those rooms into a concrete vault with a real vault door. It could be huge! Gun room, TV room, a real man-cave. But, cost is prohibitive, and I'd still have to schlep my guns up and down the stairs every time I wanted to go shooting. Not getting younger, unfortunately. Big safe in the garage is really the best solution for me, and keep the basement space for reloading and tinkering.

[MarkCO]

Big safe in the garage is really the best solution for me, and keep the basement space for reloading and tinkering.

A very significant amount of house fires originate in the garage. That plus the temperature changes are not good for the wood. It is probably the last place I would want my safe.

[rondog]

A very significant amount of house fires originate in the garage. That plus the temperature changes are not good for the wood. It is probably the last place I would want my safe.

I agree, not my idea of the perfect place either. But with the house we have, it's about the only choice. Even if we had room in the basement for a big safe, I don't think the stairs would handle it plus the men and equipment needed. We just live in the wrong damn house all around. Nice neighborhood, but that's about it. I need me a redneck place in the country with lots of room and outbuildings, where I can work on my junk and the dogs could run.

[Dave_L]

My other concerns about having the safe in the garage would be:

1. Curious eyes when the garage is open. The less neighbors know, the better.

2. Depending on what tools you have in the garage, not the best idea to leave the safe next to them. (plasma cutter, etc). I don't know if the cutter could even do anything to the safe but I'd rather keep those things away from each other.

[rondog]

My other concerns about having the safe in the garage would be:

1. Curious eyes when the garage is open. The less neighbors know, the better.


Totally agree! This is why I plan to enclose my safe with a scratch-built wooden cabinet, to disguise it. And the cabinet would be padlocked as well. Wouldn't be hard to frame up around a safe and cover the frame with plywood and then, voila! "Storage cabinet".

[sic_semper_tyrannis]

Don't store primer or gunpowder in the safe. A small amount of ammunition is okay, but not cases of it.

Could you explain this further? The reason I want such a big safe is so I can store ammo. If it was just for guns, I would probably be fine with my Stack-On. My insurance will cover the loss of firearms, but ammo is not covered. Same with most accessories. Why no ammo in the safe?

[Dave]

Mine would have to be in the garage as well. I live in a rental house, so this is no where near permanent, and my basement steps wouldn't allow it. Especially not one in the 40 gun capacity.

[MarkCO]

I assume HBAR's explanation was satisfactory. I have worked 4 safe explosion cases, 2 were powder ignition, one from an electric dehumidifier and one undetermined. The other two were ammunition cooking off. One was a robbery gone bad with a torch causing the ignition and the other was a house fire in the mountains.

On a few of the grounders, ammo in the safe had cooked off, but the quantity was low. Lots of damage to the interior and the guns, but no explosion of the safe itself.

[hatidua]

How does this apply to storying ammo in ammo cans, which are in essence a "steel container" filled with ammo?

[MarkCO]

How does this apply to storying ammo in ammo cans, which are in essence a "steel container" filled with ammo?

The deformation energy of steel ammo cans is so low as to not be of concern.

[XDMan]

Ridgeline Safe & Vault in Golden is selling their few remaining Iron Mountain safes at a steep discount. They come with door pocket storage standard. They are fire rated as 30 minutes at 1400 degrees. The 72x40x25 weighs ~800 lbs. See pictures @ http://denver.craigslist.org/fod/3877245055.html
Available safes: 72x40x25 $899, 2 left (make that 1 as I have 1 reserved); 72x40x40 $1200, 6 left; 59x40x25 $799, 4 left
Location: 421 Violet Street, Golden ph 303-278-8601 (tel:303-278-8601)
I have no affiliation, just thought these were a good deal I would pass along. Tell Greg I sent you.

Leo

Mods, I just put this info in Buyer Intel in case it shouldn't be in here.

[fly boy]

I got my Winchester from Sutherland, it was $1300, and worth it! It's fire rated, and can hold guns, ammo, cleaning supplies, and important documentation.


the only setback, is how the F you move it!! they are HUGE and HEAVY!!!! so keep that in mind.