Prairie Dog Match 3

[islandermyk]

So let me just say that I still can't shake off the shakes I get when I shoot this match. I feel a little more comfortable being able to actually watch my misses (a whole lot of'em [ROFL1]), catch my mistakes behind the trigger, and actually correct some of my mistakes.
I'll try to describe what "shakes" means to me today. On the second session, I actually hit the first target ♪♫BAM!♫ "Hell yea!".... and you know what?! That's where the adrenaline kicked in [Bang] ON my second shot I wasn't calm.. I felt my breathing was short and faster, my body was tense... can't relax now ♫Beep♪ it's my turn to shoot... yep, and I missed the second target... Okay.. Okay.. so I'm trying to calm my ass down trying to take note of where my round went and listening to Hoser calling out my miss to me.... Oh sh*t... I felt an undeniable feeling [panic]
So I took one or two good deep breathes got ready for my next shot ♪Beep♫... BAM!♫... another miss! Now I feel a little better. I saw where the round went, and felt what I did wrong.

It pretty much went on and off through out the rest of the match... but more off I guess, thank goodness!
Hoser! Thank you for the help Brother!

Again, as always a great bunch of people there shooting this match... Some good laughs and a lot of smiles. Thank you all for making this event what it is!

Oh yea! I also got to do the beeper thingy! HAhahahaha! The first time around with that.. oh boy! I must've lost track two or three times with what target and what shooter to start and end with.. embarrassing[LOL]

Another thing I need to try is shooting barefoot like this guy!

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/IMAG0027_zpsf36d2a3c.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/IMAG0027_zpsf36d2a3c.jpg.html)

Don't laugh... I think he scored the highest hits today [Coffee]

Here are more pics

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/IMAG0025_zpsfdadd7e5.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/IMAG0025_zpsfdadd7e5.jpg.html)

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/IMAG0023_zpsa986e124.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/IMAG0023_zpsa986e124.jpg.html)

Good times all the way!

TimK, thanks for spotting for me after the match getting me to that 600 yard target on my last shot [Beer]

[ColoWyo]

You should download a shot timer app. Set the part timer for a random start and do some dry fire practice under the clock.

Might help you get used to it a bit.

[islandermyk]

Just to add in here:

My first session was shit! My dope was completely off... every fricken shot was 1 mil high... it even had Hoser scratching his head for a minute, but after hearing I was using data off a phone app probably made some sense.

[islandermyk]

You should download a shot timer app. Set the part timer for a random start and do some dry fire practice under the clock.

Might help you get used to it a bit.

There were so many things going on in a short time. I'm listening to Hoser's call, trying to write Hoser's call on my pad, load a round find the next target, get comfy, and then ♫Beep... sh*t.. my turn [ROFL1]

[Tim K]

I live and die by Ballistic FTE, an iPhone app. It's the shit.

Offgrid shot like a genius today. Shoes or not, he killed it. Good shooting dude!

These matches made my brain go numb for the first few months. Yours will clear up soon and you won't feel so rushed. Keep at it.

[Hoser]

The learning curve in Competitive Shooting is pretty steep.

At first it seems like you have about a million things to do and no time to do them in. After a while you will find you have plenty of time. Even in games like Silhouette and High Power you feel rushed at first.

Offgrid rocked it for sure. He set the bar pretty friggin high...

[C Ward]

Calculated data should always be viewed with caution until confirmed . That being said all the programs should give numbers within .2 mils , an error of a mil is more than likely bad inputs of some fashion .

Relax and enjoy yourself it's suppose to fun not work .

Make the trip to Raton to shoot , you'll learn way more there because the match runs longer and New guy's always shoot with more experienced shooters .

[islandermyk]

So rather than start another thread. I'm updating my findings here. [Coffee]

You guys are right. My zero was off! and off by .5 mils.. and to add insult to injury that's what I had input into my ballistics app along with some bad fps numbers (@2735fps) [Bang]
Someone spank me [LOL]

So I went up to Pawnee today and did a little experiment while I tried to correct my sh*t and get a solid zero for my "Long Leg". I took temperature readings off the rifle and the rounds I'm shooting right before it got hot/while it was at a cool 72.4 degree according to the Kestral. Here's what I did... yea... yeah... pretty shitty I know, but keep in mind that I'm still flustered with the outcome of the Match last weekend (Just ask Hoser [Coffee]) and I just needed to know wtf over?!
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/e9e3b5c7-4ebd-4b61-b94b-770d6a214212_zps12a4148a.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/e9e3b5c7-4ebd-4b61-b94b-770d6a214212_zps12a4148a.jpg.html)

.. and after close to an hour or so... here's another round of shots, but this time I made "Long leg" and some rounds stay in the sun long enough to get hotter by almost 20 more degrees. I also kept the same zero and same point of aim...
Also note how much more light was out compared to the first picture. It was about 86 degrees according to the Kestral.
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/8a5c4d8f-3755-4590-83c1-0df25d97d0dc_zps3c3eb486.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/8a5c4d8f-3755-4590-83c1-0df25d97d0dc_zps3c3eb486.jpg.html)

So according to my findings and corrections I've made... I should be able to be more relaxed at the next match a lot more than last weekend's [Tooth]

[islandermyk]

I forgot to mention... I'm always shooting from top right to left/counter clockwise starting with the top right hand corner.

[Great-Kazoo]

Should of called, i could have spotted for you.

[TheBelly]

Seems like there's a lot of difference between the MV of cold vs hot ammo and cold vs hot gun. I don't think it'll play too much at 100m, but at 600m it probably has a bigger effect. To what extent I can't say.

2706 fps vs 2595 fps is a lot of difference. If anything, it proves to me that I need to keep the ammo and the gun at consistent temps (as much as possible) during a shoot.

Myk, keeping up with your threads is teaching me a lot about shooting. Hopefully I'll get my poop in a group and be helpful to the rest here. Thanks for posting this up there.

[C Ward]

What powder ?

[islandermyk]

Varget 43.0 gr 175gr SMK HPBT

[islandermyk]

Seems like there's a lot of difference between the MV of cold vs hot ammo and cold vs hot gun. I don't think it'll play too much at 100m, but at 600m it probably has a bigger effect. To what extent I can't say.

2706 fps vs 2595 fps is a lot of difference. If anything, it proves to me that I need to keep the ammo and the gun at consistent temps (as much as possible) during a shoot.

Myk, keeping up with your threads is teaching me a lot about shooting. Hopefully I'll get my poop in a group and be helpful to the rest here. Thanks for posting this up there.

Just keep in mind... you need to try and experiment some of these things yourself to really see it yourself. I'm no expert.. just sharing my findings [Beer]

[C Ward]

Varget in my 308 is about as temp insensitive as it gets . What type chrono? My Varget load was within 20 fps from 15 or so to 100 degrees . Did you confirm the velocity numbers at distance or just chrono data ?

43 grs should be in the 2650ish range usually , my load is 44 - 44.5 in a Win case and a BR2 with a 175 and this was 2730 out of a 26" Krieger .

[islandermyk]

Varget in my 308 is about as temp insensitive as it gets . What type chrono? My Varget load was within 20 fps from 15 or so to 100 degrees . Did you confirm the velocity numbers at distance or just chrono data ?

43 grs should be in the 2650ish range usually , my load is 44 - 44.5 in a Win case and a BR2 and this was 2730 out of a 26" Krieger .

I was using a Chrony F1... I was just using chrono data. Wrote down what it was reading out to me one shot after another.

I'm also using CCI's 250 Large Magnum Primers...
Mixed brass
shooting out of a 22 inch 11.25 twist heavy contour Bartlein barrel

I'm also starting to think that heavier barrels may keep in the heat longer.. much longer than thinner barrels..., but I can't confirm that.
I wonder how much of a difference in accuracy would be between the two... but this should be on another thread.

[Tim K]

I've had similar issues with powders that were supposed to be temperature insensitive. I think I traced the problem back to allowing a loaded round to sit in a hot chamber. On a string at a PD match, the first half or so would shoot normally, then I'd start getting a sticky bolt. I quit clambering a round as my first step to getting ready and now save it till last. I don't chamber now until the shooter in front of me gets their beep.

[C Ward]

There are a lot of variables there to look at .

The Chrony's are notorious for being off and all chrono's are sensitive to the light coditions . You want to set up and chrono in as close to the same conditions as possible with the light as close to straight above it . This way you can get some what repeatable numbers from them . You always want to take chrono numbers with a grain of salt untill the data is confirmed on targets at distance . The best way is to shoot groups on paper or big steel out past 700 and see where the actual impact is and back calculate the MV .

Using mixed brass iss a bad idea , I don't sort by weight like the bench rest guy's but it is all the same brand and preferably the same lot . The case capacity variations brand to brand will lead to big ES and SD issue's .

I try to stay away from magnum primers unless I have to because in smaller calibers they can lead to pressure wierdness for lack of a better term .

My Bartlien's in 308 and 6.5 have both been " fast " barrels . I would suspect at 22 inches 2675 - 2700 ish should be easily attainable . A thinner barrel is going to heat up way faster than a heavy one will , it may disipate the heat faster but it will take way less time to get hot .

Not letting the round cook in the chamber is always a good idea .

There is a really good book about the reloading process the Glenn Zediker wrote that has ton's of info in it , Reloading For Competition IIRC . If you google his name it will come up .

Vertical from velocity unless it is a stupid huge jump typically isn't going to show till past 500 yards .

[ColoWyo]

I agree with C Ward. Mixed brass is bad juju. I would try to at least stick with the same brand. I never had velocity swings with Varget. H4350 seems pretty damn good as well.

I've got a metric shit ton of used Winchester brass in 308 if you need some 100 or so.

[islandermyk]

There are a lot of variables there to look at .

The Chrony's are notorious for being off and all chrono's are sensitive to the light coditions . You want to set up and chrono in as close to the same conditions as possible with the light as close to straight above it . This way you can get some what repeatable numbers from them . You always want to take chrono numbers with a grain of salt untill the data is confirmed on targets at distance . The best way is to shoot groups on paper or big steel out past 700 and see where the actual impact is and back calculate the MV .

Using mixed brass iss a bad idea , I don't sort by weight like the bench rest guy's but it is all the same brand and preferably the same lot . The case capacity variations brand to brand will lead to big ES and SD issue's .

I try to stay away from magnum primers unless I have to because in smaller calibers they can lead to pressure wierdness for lack of a better term .

My Bartlien's in 308 and 6.5 have both been " fast " barrels . I would suspect at 22 inches 2675 - 2700 ish should be easily attainable . A thinner barrel is going to heat up way faster than a heavy one will , it may disipate the heat faster but it will take way less time to get hot .

Not letting the round cook in the chamber is always a good idea .

There is a really good book about the reloading process the Glenn Zediker wrote that has ton's of info in it , Reloading For Competition IIRC . If you google his name it will come up .

Vertical from velocity unless it is a stupid huge jump typically isn't going to show till past 500 yards .

I figured or had a questionable feeling about these chrono's. I had to shoot my 22lr passed it a few times to see if it'll give me some sort'a crazy reading. I was getting between 1200 and 900 fps out of my Savage Mark2 with some Federal rounds.

I'm pretty sure your right about getting some bad readings one way or the other. Believe me... I know when I'm not doing it correctly [LOL]
This was taken a few months back*
http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG1920_zps08ac03e0.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG1920_zps08ac03e0.jpg.html)
This was all sorts of wrong! Not on a flat surface, not completely folded out, and God know what else I was doing completely wrong out there with this thing.... I was like sh*t.. I'm shooting really hot rounds [Coffee]
I will certainly keep your suggestions in mind. Thank you [Beer]

[islandermyk]

I agree with C Ward. Mixed brass is bad juju. I would try to at least stick with the same brand. I never had velocity swings with Varget. H4350 seems pretty damn good as well.

I've got a metric shit ton of used Winchester brass in 308 if you need some 100 or so.

Damn.... I gotta sort through all that brass [Coffee]

[TheBelly]

hmmm... mixed brass.....

For the purposes of the PD match (local and not THAT long of distances), how much does the friction created by the case hold on the bullet come in to play?

[islandermyk]

I've had similar issues with powders that were supposed to be temperature insensitive. I think I traced the problem back to allowing a loaded round to sit in a hot chamber. On a string at a PD match, the first half or so would shoot normally, then I'd start getting a sticky bolt. I quit clambering a round as my first step to getting ready and now save it till last. I don't chamber now until the shooter in front of me gets their beep.
I didn't mention, but i did notice I was getting some of this too. I was just thinking that "Long leg" needed some cleaning [facepalm]


hmmm... mixed brass.....

For the purposes of the PD match (local and not THAT long of distances), how much does the friction created by the case hold on the bullet come in to play?

I'm wondering the same... but as what we'll always hear. Precision shooting consist of being consistent, right?

[C Ward]

Inside of 500 you can get away of a lot . The problem with mixed cases is more about capacity than neck tension .

If you can find some BR2's they have always been the magic primer with Varget in 308 for me .