NAGR spends more than every gun group combined on lobbying

[RMGOdirector]

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/07/23/13042/pro-gun-group-dramatically-ups-influence-spending

Pro-gun group dramatically ups influence spendingKey opponents of gun control and proponents of immigration reform invested unprecedented amounts lobbying Congress this spring, bucking a downward trend among many of the nation’s largest companies and nonprofits,newly released records show.


The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights (http://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-us) spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens (http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2013/Q2/300585109.xml) of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/04/20/12534/nra-spends-record-money-lobbying-year) $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

[HBARleatherneck]

membership down?

[RMGOdirector]

Not sure I understand your question.

Are you asking if NAGR's membership numbers are down? No, we have been growing for 5 years straight.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

He's saying that because the only time you show up around here is to ask for more money..... Which, by the way, you won't be getting from me anymore... I'm stick of your damn emails...

[COcz]

Can somebody please, please, please start a new state 2A group. I am so tired of RMGO. I want to give somebody my money, but it will not be them.

[BCMEAG]

I am a new member to this site but have been viewing for sometime and there appears to be a dislike for RMGO here. I am just curious about the reasons Can some folks share?

[Monky]

Search the ops posts and read... You'll understand


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[BCMEAG]

I did a quick search, it seems the biggest complaint is the continuous asking for money which every organizations does. It's how they finance their activities. I probably get 2-3 mailings from the USO every month. I donate when I can. It seems to me donating to RMGO is worth it. Thanks.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I did a quick search, it seems the biggest complaint is the continuous asking for money which every organizations does. It's how they finance their activities. I probably get 2-3 mailings from the USO every month. I donate when I can. It seems to me donating to RMGO is worth it. Thanks.

Wait till you grt 5-10 emails a day from them.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[BCMEAG]

I get the emails, I have been a member for 4-5 years. I read them and donate if I think it is worthwhile and delete. I get lots of mailings from the NRA as well, donate when I can and throw the others away. Seems like a pretty easy task in order to support those who are sticking up for gun owners. To each their own.

[Great-Kazoo]

I get the emails, I have been a member for 4-5 years. I read them and donate if I think it is worthwhile and delete. I get lots of mailings from the NRA as well, donate when I can and throw the others away. Seems like a pretty easy task in order to support those who are sticking up for gun owners. To each their own.

If you've been a rmgo member for a few years. Why concern yourself now with other opinions? If you were not happy with them you would have not renewed your membership, again, and again.

[BCMEAG]

I don't believe, in fact I know I didn't say I was unhappy with them in previous posts. I was just trying to get some takes here from members here about why RMGO appears to be disliked by some people on this board. So far I have I have gotten they send a lot of emails. I guess I was just trying to have a conversation about something I have been curious about.

[275RLTW]

I am a new member to this site but have been viewing for sometime and there appears to be a dislike for RMGO here. I am just curious about the reasons Can some folks share?
Dudley only comes on here when he needs money. For someone who considers them self an "instructor" with his other group and such a gun rights advocate, he doesn't contribute shit here. I'll leave my personal feelings about Dudley's BS aside for another conversation...

[BCMEAG]

Post above, I can understand that frustration.

[TFOGGER]

I think the frustration of most with RMGO/Dudley is tied to the tendency to attack the tactics of the NRA, and work counter to their initiatives, rather than join forces with them. Granted, I don't always agree with the NRA's stance on every issue, and RMGO's "no compromise" approach has a lot of appeal. United we stand, divided, we fall.

[BCMEAG]

Yep, that was a turn off to me as well when I first joined RMGO and made me take a wait and see approach as well. Why are we bickering when we are on the same side? I think in the last couple of years the NRA and RMGO are closer than they've been in the past. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the NRA is taking a tougher stance with less compromising than in the past. Unfortunately for us gun owners these gun groups are in competition for our memberships and dollars sometimes at the detriment of us gun owners.

[hatidua]

Why are we bickering when we are on the same side?

That's a question you should ask RMGO.

[BCMEAG]

That's the problem when you have two entities that think two different roads of travel are best. I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best being that there is no compromise with the 2A. I was a hard core off road dirt biker for years and we continuously compromised with the enviros; we gave up trails and never got anything in return.

[pickenup]

However much of that 3 million was spent, fighting to keep from Kalifornicating Colorado's gun laws, didn't help.

And when we were trying to fight it, rallying at the capitol, you were asked if you would be there.


No, I won't. I'll be on an airplane, heading to D.C..... again.

Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

[BCMEAG]

Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped as you are not going to change liberal minds; they hate guns. I think Mr. Brown is correct in that the best action is at election time to get officials elected that are pro gun. Once your adversaries have won elections there is not much you can do as they have their agenda. Plus, from my brief encounters with Joe Neville he seems pretty competent.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yep, that was a turn off to me as well when I first joined RMGO and made me take a wait and see approach as well. Why are we bickering when we are on the same side? I think in the last couple of years the NRA and RMGO are closer than they've been in the past. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the NRA is taking a tougher stance with less compromising than in the past. Unfortunately for us gun owners these gun groups are in competition for our memberships and dollars sometimes at the detriment of us gun owners.


That's the problem when you have two entities that think two different roads of travel are best. I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best being that there is no compromise with the 2A. I was a hard core off road dirt biker for years and we continuously compromised with the enviros; we gave up trails and never got anything in return.


Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped as you are not going to change liberal minds; they hate guns. I think Mr. Brown is correct in that the best action is at election time to get officials elected that are pro gun. Once your adversaries have won elections there is not much you can do as they have their agenda. Plus, from my brief encounters with Joe Neville he seems pretty competent.


Honestly aside from your "curiosity" regarding issues with rmgo, you seem to be making excuses for them, rather than address your original ??'s

Your last post contradicts your second reply. Here's the deal. While Dudley's heart use to be in the right place and had the best interest of CO gun owners. He has turned in to a divisive bomb thrower. IF YOU SEARCH AS MENTIONED BEFORE there are a few post regarding Dudley and me asking questions. Never replied / addressed any of my or other board members questions.
IF you're not willing to step up to the plate on of all places a Gun Forum, you sure as hell don't have my support OR money.

This thread verifies my stance.approximately 7 hours ago RMGO / The dudley starts a thread regarding RMGO / NAGR . Criticism is leveled towards him and not a peep to counter / justify RMGO's position, reason for posting. The only one to have his back is suspiciously enough a new board member with 9 post, 8 of them in this thread alone.
RMGO Shill or just a head in the clouds disciple?

[BCMEAG]

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

Maybe you can tell good ol mr brown to step his shit up.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Great-Kazoo]

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best

Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped

Fairly self explanatory. IF. KEY WORD IF RMGO was a true NO COMPROMISE .org. He would have rescheduled his "Lobbyist" duties and stood up . AFTER ALL, NO COMPROMISE, MEANS JUST THAT NO COMPROMISE.

EVERYONE here knows had the NRA used the I have to be in DC excuse RMGO would have taken full page ad's out in every gun rag, condemning them for shirking their duties at a critical time.

UM YEAH, UMMM. Anyone see my red stapler?

[BPTactical]

You know, any organization that fights for our 2A rights has my respect. I may not always agree with their tactics and constant fund raising but I am glad they are there.

[BCMEAG]

So what's your solution? You obviously have very strong thoughts on the matter which I respect. What if this website started a 2A organization in the state of Colorado? The website has what, 6,000-7,000 members already?

[DHC]

You know, any organization that fights for our 2A rights has my respect. I may not always agree with their tactics and constant fund raising but I am glad they are there.

+1

I wish that RMGO would just STOP the comparison baiting to other 2A organizations. The bottom line, for me, is that I am supportive of ANY and ALL organizations that work to defend our 2A rights. The one-upmanship within those ranks does NOTHING to encourage me to support the speaker - except to wonder if they could not be MORE effective if they would simply focus ALL their attention on 2A defense instead of the feigned in-fighting.

FWIW

[Aloha_Shooter]

The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights (http://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-us) spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens (http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2013/Q2/300585109.xml) of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/04/20/12534/nra-spends-record-money-lobbying-year) $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

Why only report the second quarter? What's the point of the second quarter when so many of the legislative sessions are wrapping up? The time to spend money against those bills were the two quarters before then. Maybe that's why $840K is a near record for the NRA in the second quarter.

I won't ding RMGO because legislators I respect have said they do good work but Dudley turned me off from donating to RMGO or NAGR with his virulent anti-NRA diatribes, lies about Jane Norton (it's fine that he preferred Ken Buck but not fine that he equated her with Sarah Brady and called her an anti-gunner) and rude responses. Norton may not have been perfect to a lot of conservatives but she was no Sarah Brady despite what Dudley said and she would have beat Bennet handily by pulling swing votes that Buck didn't get. Good for those who donate to RMGO because they feel it's serving their interests, I'm just not one of them.

[BPTactical]

So what's your solution? You obviously have very strong thoughts on the matter which I respect. What if this website started a 2A organization in the state of Colorado? The website has what, 6,000-7,000 members already?

Better tactics.
Sure, fundraise. But your appearances before legislature/public need to be very well thought out and precisely planned.
Pissing matches with legislators in the capitol or poorly planned events will not help matters at all.
The event last week is a perfect example. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a pro 2A event on the anniversary of a mass shooting incident WILL be spun in a negative light, especially when Bloomberg dolts are involved.

We are not fighting stupid people here. Ignorant, arrogant, ill informed and less than truthful yes, but not stupid. They know exactly how to spin the media in their favor and how to make the pro 2A organizations appear minimalist. Don't forget, after BHO and crew saw their anti agenda go down in flames a couple months ago he vowed to "go in full campaign mode" to push his agenda.
That was exactly what Bloomies Bus Tour was all about. And we are going to see more of it.

We need to fight the smart, logical fight and stick with pure facts.
Let the loony lefties be the emotional drama mamas.

[buffalobo]

Better tactics.
Sure, fundraise. But your appearances before legislature/public need to be very well thought out and precisely planned.
Pissing matches with legislators in the capitol or poorly planned events will not help matters at all.
The event last week is a perfect example. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a pro 2A event on the anniversary of a mass shooting incident WILL be spun in a negative light, especially when Bloomberg dolts are involved.

We are not fighting stupid people here. Ignorant, arrogant, ill informed and less than truthful yes, but not stupid. They know exactly how to spin the media in their favor and how to make the pro 2A organizations appear minimalist. Don't forget, after BHO and crew saw their anti agenda go down in flames a couple months ago he vowed to "go in full campaign mode" to push his agenda.
That was exactly what Bloomies Bus Tour was all about. And we are going to see more of it.

We need to fight the smart, logical fight and stick with pure facts.
Let the loony lefties be the emotional drama mamas.

Well said Bert. Dudley, you paying attention?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[Bailey Guns]

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/07/23/13042/pro-gun-group-dramatically-ups-influence-spending

Pro-gun group dramatically ups influence spending

Key opponents of gun control and proponents of immigration reform invested unprecedented amounts lobbying Congress this spring, bucking a downward trend among many of the nation’s largest companies and nonprofits,newly released records show.


The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights (http://www.nationalgunrights.org/about-us) spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens (http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2013/Q2/300585109.xml) of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record (http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/04/20/12534/nra-spends-record-money-lobbying-year) $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

Not sure if this is just quoted from an article or authored by Dudley Brown. Either way, it seems to me anyone reporting on this should know that the NRA doesn't lobby anyone. They can't.

The NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is the lobbying arm of the NRA. Yes, it's a technicality but an important one, especially to those who are uninformed. It seems, once again, Dudley is using a divide and conquer approach in an attempt to bad-mouth the NRA.

I, too, tend to support pretty much ANY pro-gun group. But I'm also sick of Brown's constant bashing of the NRA...even when he means the NRA/ILA. RMGO no longer gets my support for this very reason.

[Bailey Guns]

Well said Bert. Dudley, you paying attention?

I think the more appropriate question is, "Dudley, do you care?" And I think we already know the answer to that.

[Dave]

I've donated to NRA, NRA/ILA, RMGO, NAGR and the Morse recall effort over the last year and only RMGO/NAGR didn't send a real thank you email. All the others sent at least an email that just said thank you and how my donation was going to be used, and NRA/ILA sent me a mini multitool even though I checked the box for no gift. Dudley's organizations sent me an email that said thank you in the first paragraph and the next paragraph of the same email was asking for more money. At least give it a week or so after a donation before you start begging again. I know it was only $50, but it was all I could do at the time. Never got the promised PMAG from RMGO either.

[RMGOdirector]

Wait till you get 5-10 emails a day from them.



Get serious: You don't get 5-10 emails a day from RMGO. Nor NAGR.

During a HOT fight (like this year's Colorado legislature) we'll send one per day for a week, to keep you updated. But in a normal week, RMGO sends 2-3 per week, max.

NAGR sends 3-4 per week.

And when RMGO sends out 1 a week, people complain that they don't know what's going on.

[RMGOdirector]

Notice that I posted this article, and didn't ask for money.

Btw, the lobbying report in the article IS talking about NRA/ILA.

If illustrating differences with the NRA (and ILA) offends you, yes, you shouldn't be on RMGO's e-mail list. We'll tell it like we see it every time.

[BPTactical]

You know, now that I am a bit more awake and the thought process is starting to kick in, things need to be done by LOCAL Pro2A organizations AT A LOCAL LEVEL that will shed a positive light on firearm owners.
Relatively simple things that there is NO WAY the message can be misconstrued.
Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
Offer firearm awareness and safety classes for educational institutes at all level, even community colleges and the like.
God forbid another incident occurs but if it does, be just as vocal as the antis in decrying unwarranted violence against innocents.
Right now would be a great time to come out in support of the recall campaigns and show the REAL reasons for the recall, not as much the infringement of our rights, but rather that Morse and Giron (along with the rest that supported the agenda) refused to hear the voices of their constituents and Sheriffs and did not legislate in a fair and objective manner.
How about a message,publication or similar that illustrates the positives of firearm ownership.
Its not about the money. Its not about attacking and bitching about "Our Rights". Those things are easily dismissed by the Antis.
You need to work on "The Human Element". That's why the Antis are so successful at their message.
Fight smarter WITH other organizations instead of trying to play one upmanship.
We all have a common goal, work as a well oiled team to achieve that goal.

That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

[RMGOdirector]

Dudley only comes on here when he needs money.

Actually, if you look at my posts, a great portion of them are responding to questions from a small group of naysayers. I could ignore, but will address specific questions head-on.

Most of the threads I start have to do with something purely political.

Most of the naysayers have me at a disadvantage: they don't list their real name, so they are immune from criticism or accountability. I could have done that originally, but prefer to be open about who I am and what I think.

[RMGOdirector]

Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

Or, perhaps, train school teachers for free?

Or provide scholarships?

I have a million good ideas, as I'm sure everyone here does. I have some bad ones, too. But you can't run with these ideas if you don't have the time/talent/money.

[RMGOdirector]

Never got the promised PMAG from RMGO either.

Since I don't know your full name I can't check to see what happened. You're welcome to e-mail office@rmgo.org the info and we'll see. But we send out regular thank you's and member cards.

If you were promised a pmag in a promotion and didn't receive it, we'd have to rectify that in another way now that the ban is in effect.

[sellersm]

You know, now that I am a bit more awake and the thought process is starting to kick in, things need to be done by LOCAL Pro2A organizations AT A LOCAL LEVEL that will shed a positive light on firearm owners.
Relatively simple things that there is NO WAY the message can be misconstrued.
Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
Offer firearm awareness and safety classes for educational institutes at all level, even community colleges and the like.
God forbid another incident occurs but if it does, be just as vocal as the antis in decrying unwarranted violence against innocents.
Right now would be a great time to come out in support of the recall campaigns and show the REAL reasons for the recall, not as much the infringement of our rights, but rather that Morse and Giron (along with the rest that supported the agenda) refused to hear the voices of their constituents and Sheriffs and did not legislate in a fair and objective manner.
How about a message,publication or similar that illustrates the positives of firearm ownership.
Its not about the money. Its not about attacking and bitching about "Our Rights". Those things are easily dismissed by the Antis.
You need to work on "The Human Element". That's why the Antis are so successful at their message.
Fight smarter WITH other organizations instead of trying to play one upmanship.
We all have a common goal, work as a well oiled team to achieve that goal.

That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

This has been my 'beef' with ALL pro-2A orgainzations for years!! Where has the "pro-gun" 'indoctrination' been for all these years? There's been plenty, and I mean PLENTY of anti-gun indoctrination from the other side forever. Where are the stories, media outlets, photos, etc. from all these 2A organizations? Every time there's an anti-gun story, there should be five more pro-gun stories! Instead, all we get are 'lobbyists' and pleas for $$$! Almost every school has an anti-gun policy, zero tolerance, etc. Where'd that come from? Extortion from the administration by withholding $$$ if you don't comply, etc. Where are the "pro gun" tolerance policies? Where are the "gun accepted here" zones? How well publicized are they? etc. etc. etc.

We are our own problem, sometimes, because most conservatives just want to be left alone to live their lives in freedom. I think those days are gone. Time for the pro-2A orgs to all 'get along' and fight together. If you study history, you'll see just how well connected, organized and long-living the "antis" are! Their agenda will span multiple generations and be planned out for decades and decades. Just one example? Agenda 21. Started well before the 80's when they had the public conference in Brazil. Now fast-forward to today: it's in most school districts and in every 'planned community'!! It's insidious, spreads like cancer. We need to be the radiation!!

[Monky]

You've pretty well managed to get the majority of the population here annoyed with you.

Can you take a guess as to why you don't receive money?

Perhaps it's past time to step down Dudley. Let someone else take the reins and see if they can't fix what you broke. I'm sure lots of people here would love your salary.


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[RMGOdirector]

Respectfully, public policy isn't made by public opinion. It's made by policy makers (i.e. politicians).

The expansion of the Brady Registration system, which right now is taking the form of the bill pushed by Toomey-Manchin, is going to be voted upon by politicians.

MOBILIZING citizens to oppose it, and hold politicians accountable for their votes, is the goal of NAGR in this skirmish (and where we spent most of that $3 million this quarter).

We could have spent it on TV commercials extolling the virtues of the Second Amendment -- and watched Toomey-Manchin pass.

Limited time/money/talent. My job is largely to sift through all projects/ideas, and spend RMGO and NAGR's time/money/talent on those projects we believe make the most difference. And when you make those decisions, a chunk of people get mad that you aren't following their strategy.

If you have a pro-gun project you want pursued by the organizations I represent, here's the checklist:

1. Does it fit RMGO and NAGR's overall strategy? You can read about that here: www.rmgo.org/strategy (http://www.rmgo.org/strategy)
If yes, then go to number 2
If no, is it a self-funding project that won't take staff time? If so, who's volunteering to lead it? Are you?
2. Does the organization have the headspace and funding for the project? Sometimes, we don't have the additional headspace to sharpen a pencil, given the workload in the legislative or campaign seasons.

I can list a thousand things I think "need" to be done. But since we can't do them all, we have to limit what we do.

Doesn't that make sense?

[HBARleatherneck]

where can I read about how much Dudley and his wife made off these two organizations. How many homes do they now own? I know how to find out how many homes. But, is there somewhere that says how much Dudley takes in for himself?

[RMGOdirector]

You've pretty well managed to get the majority of the population here annoyed with you.


There are HOW many users on this forum, and 10 bellyaching?




Perhaps it's past time to step down Dudley. Let someone else take the reins and see if they can't fix what you broke. I'm sure lots of people here would love your salary.



Don't know who you are (sorry, I've never met "Monky") so can't say whether you could do my job. Please, list your qualifications to build and lead a group. Love to see that.

If you want RMGO to get rid of me, talk to RMGO's chairman. I'm sure he'd take your call. chairman@rmgo.org

But, RMGO is hiring. So, if someone here is anxious to work in politics and be paid to do it, fire off a resume.

However, it's a starting position. It's not NEARLY as small as my salary (a stipend, actually) for the first decade of RMGO's existence, but it's a starting position.

[RMGOdirector]

where can I read about how much Dudley and his wife made off these two organizations. How many homes do they now own? I know how to find out how many homes. But, is there somewhere that says how much Dudley takes in for himself?

Guidestar.org lists the 990 filings for EVERY non-profit in America, including RMGO and NAGR. And we provide copies of our filings upon request.

I (and my wife) own one house (though, frankly, it's none of your damn business). My wife has put in thousands of volunteer hours for RMGO, stuffing mail and data entry, and never been paid by RMGO.

But, before I get too mad and start a fight here, I'll tell you straight up that I won't answer any questions from anonymous forum lurkers.

[275RLTW]

Dudley,
People on here are trying to give you input on how they feel your organization could better serve the 2A populace in CO. You are getting direct feedback on how to improve. Companies pay thousands for this. In return, you do nothing but try to call people out, insult them, and state that no one else can do your job. Perhaps this is the exact reason why YOU are not liked or respected. NAGR/RMGO could do a lot better...your ego is holding it back. Is that straight forward enough for you?

[davsel]

There are HOW many users on this forum, and 10 bellyaching?

Well, let's make it 11.
Tried it, didn't like it, stuck with the NRA.
Attitude played a major role in my decision. And when I see that attitude displayed here, it reinforces my confidence in that decision.

[HBARleatherneck]

funny, weld county assessor lists two in you and your wifes name. or are you saying a condo isnt a house? now what do you own elsewhere?

basically we know you make alot of money for yourself FEAR MONGERING and hating on every other organization. i paid you for several years, until your douchebag nature showed through.

[Ronin13]

United we stand, divided, we fall.
Funny, the liberals have this idea all figured out... but for some reason, Dudley likes to poke the NRA/ILA and try to display them in a negative light. Instead, how about UNITING with them for a common goal? "But they haven't done this or that..." Quiet! MAN THE FUCK UP! Petty bickering and moaning about the other guy is only hurting us, not helping.

Not sure if this is just quoted from an article or authored by Dudley Brown. Either way, it seems to me anyone reporting on this should know that the NRA doesn't lobby anyone. They can't.

The NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is the lobbying arm of the NRA. Yes, it's a technicality but an important one, especially to those who are uninformed. It seems, once again, Dudley is using a divide and conquer approach in an attempt to bad-mouth the NRA.

I, too, tend to support pretty much ANY pro-gun group. But I'm also sick of Brown's constant bashing of the NRA...even when he means the NRA/ILA. RMGO no longer gets my support for this very reason.
THIS! Same here! I was a first year member right after the noise in the aftermath of Sandy Hook, then saw what kind of vile tactics Dudley uses to bash the NRA (who I've been a member of for a long time), and sorry, heart's in the right place, but your execution fucking blows! Pardon my profanity, but for crying out loud, TFOGGER put it best: "Divided we fall"/fail.

ETA: That is why I have the RMGO Member instead of just deleting it... It's not about the money, it's about sending a message. Are you listening Dudley? Fix your org, find a way to work with other 2A groups, and I'll come back and support you 100%. Until then, Chris Cox will continue to get a nice quarterly check from me to keep fighting without putting down fellow gun groups.

[3beansalad]

Mr. Brown, as a RMGO member I support what you are doing, but I find your posts in this thread concerning.

You should never be worried about getting 'too mad' at the people you claim to represent. This is a forum you joined with what I can only assume is a desire to connect with like minded people and reach out to further the influence of all gun owners in the US. I agree with coloccw when he said we are providing you focus group intel at no cost. I think most members will agree there is something we disagree with the NRA on, so bashing them for what you don't like is preaching to the choir. Telling people who give you an opinion about what we think needs to be done differently within your organization should be met with praise and thanks for the information, along with a vow to address the issues we see, not sarcasm. Or calmly explaining why things are the way they are in hopes you can bring 'us' around to your way of thinking.

So that I am not another nameless person in your eyes:

David Peal
CS, CO 80922.

[kawiracer14]

As someone who is fairly new to the world of guns, but not to organizations involved in legislature and lobbying, I must say you are doing an excellent job keeping perspective members away from your organization.

Obviously you know how forums work - there are very few forums where people post their full name, address, phone number, etc for everyone to see. If you aren't interested in responding to "anonymous" forum posters - perhaps you should take your posting elsewhere.

The whole point of these forums is to have open discussions and feedback. Maybe twitter is more your speed where you can post whatever you like and people actually have to put in a little effort to see how people responded to your comments.

Even Facebook requires that you not delete negative comments from things you post as an organization even if you don't like them.

[RMGOdirector]

Look at the thread, from the beginning. I posted an article proving what NAGR spent on lobbying Congress against gun control, and the first response is HBAR insinuating that I'm posting for money.

My personal finances are none of your business, least of all some douchebag (since this insult is apparently acceptable here) who hides behind a moniker. What RMGO pays Dudley Brown ($4000/month in salary) is public information, and I'm HAPPY to compare my salary to other execs who run similar sized organizations, or even to compare salaries based on size. The studies I've looked at (through Guidestar) show I am paid 1/3 the rate as others.

When I hear someone bitch about RMGO asking for money too often then tout the NRA, I gotta wonder what planet they are living on. But, that's the ONE area I don't disagree with the NRA on (they DO raise money -- just wish they'd spend it for the right purposes, but since I don't give them money, frankly, I've already voted with my money).

[sellersm]

Funny, the liberals have this idea all figured out... but for some reason, Dudley likes to poke the NRA/ILA and try to display them in a negative light. Instead, how about UNITING with them for a common goal? "But they haven't done this or that..." Quiet! MAN THE FUCK UP! Petty bickering and moaning about the other guy is only hurting us, not helping.

^This. See post #40. "They" are EXCELLENT at this.

Dudley, I understand your point about politicians,
Respectfully, public policy isn't made by public opinion. It's made by policy makers (i.e. politicians).

However, politicians are able to do what they do because they feel they've got public opinion behind them! And lots of lobbyists & backroom deals, etc. The system's busted, for sure. We get that. Has the NRA, or any other 2A organization always been our friend? Nope. In fact, if they REALLY did their job right, they'd be out of a job after they were done, and human nature doesn't like that very much (selfish greed, sin nature of man, and all that)!!

So, fighting against a NATIONAL registry is higher priority than fighting against the 'registry' that's already taken place here in CO? If these local politicians here in CO would have been derailed & deflated, they wouldn't end up in the House/Senate in DC!!

Stop the seed from being planted & growing in the first place, and you won't have to deal with all the branches, birds and leaves of the tree later! Which is cheaper? Resources are ALWAYS finite: I vote for killing the seed.

[RMGOdirector]

Mr. Brown, as a RMGO member I support what you are doing, but I find your posts in this thread concerning.

You should never be worried about getting 'too mad' at the people you claim to represent. This is a forum you joined with what I can only assume is a desire to connect with like minded people and reach out to further the influence of all gun owners in the US. I agree with coloccw when he said we are providing you focus group intel at no cost. I think most members will agree there is something we disagree with the NRA on, so bashing them for what you don't like is preaching to the choir. Telling people who give you an opinion about what we think needs to be done differently within your organization should be met with praise and thanks for the information, along with a vow to address the issues we see, not sarcasm. Or calmly explaining why things are the way they are in hopes you can bring 'us' around to your way of thinking.

So that I am not another nameless person in your eyes:

David Peal
CS, CO 80922.

Message received. Understand that many think showing the differences with the organizations is negative. I don't.

The "unity!" plea is nice. I would love it. When we agree with the NRA (and I talk to ILA staff regularly), we even say so. But when we don't, and we think they are supporting gun control (the mental health database they are supporting right now is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction), we'll always say so. The die-hard NRA types don't like it, but so be it. We're going to be honest.

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.

[RMGOdirector]

Stop the seed from being planted & growing in the first place, and you won't have to deal with all the branches, birds and leaves of the tree later! Which is cheaper? Resources are ALWAYS finite: I vote for killing the seed.

Know anyone in Colorado who has knocked out more anti-gunners in the state legislature (i.e. the "seed")? All humility aside, no, you don't, at least in the last 2 decades.

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't suggest defeating gun controls (and it's proponents) in DC is more important than Colorado gun controls. It isn't. I'm just suggesting that I believe it's smarter to spend money on changing policy makers than to try to change the public's minds about guns.

Look at the balanced budget amendment issue. 85% of America agreed with passing a BBA. We got ONE vote (and lost) in Congress. What, are we going to "educate" America to 90%? That still won't stop the profligate spending.

[sellersm]

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't suggest defeating gun controls (and it's proponents) in DC is more important than Colorado gun controls. It isn't.

I did misunderstand you, if that's what you meant. HOWEVER, your ACTIONS showed otherwise (by going to DC instead of fighting with us here in CO).


I'm just suggesting that I believe it's smarter to spend money on changing policy makers than to try to change the public's minds about guns.

That statement is NOT mutually exclusive to the other statement and really doesn't address the issue of supporting (or not) the local CO fight! I can see your point, and that's fine. However, I"m suggesting we fight the LOCAL "policy makers", especially when we know they're headed to DC after this 'stop' in CO!!!

For the record, I'm a support of RMGO, NAGR, NRA and others. And my name's in my forum username...

I leave it with this: I understand that if these types of organizations are really successful, they'll be out of business soon, and that's a hard pill for many to swallow. Same with every other type of "Pro-whatever-group-it-is" groups: if they were successful and eliminated whatever "wrong" they were fighting to correct, then what would they do after that? Go get real jobs? <a bit tongue in cheek>

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

This is how we lost the last two presidential elections. Why can't we all just get along?!?!?!

[sellersm]

This is how we lost the last two presidential elections. Why can't we all just get along?!?!?!

Yep. See Post #40.

[3beansalad]

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.

We all get that, and often can support it, but when you come off as an ass (not meant personally of course,) you do as much harm as good with your message. This forum, as mostly Coloradans and gun owners, should be a place you come for support (not just financial) and brainstorming. Anyone who has an issue with RMGO or NAGR should feel free to voice it and have it addressed. If not personally by you, have a staff member reach out via PM to that member and see how you can correct the problem. There is no better, or more damaging, review than word of mouth. I would imaging many of the members here are friends off-line, hell I have family in this forum, and when something goes wrong we talk about it. You can either be supported by the more vocal members here, or refuted by them. The beauty of it is you get to decide which one...

When you do stand with the NRA or any other organization, you need to highlight those instances as well as when you disagree with them. Show your members, and detractors, that you can 'Stand and Fight' with another group when it counts. Now maybe you do that well and I've just not read the emails I receive thoroughly enough.

[Ronin13]

Message received. Understand that many think showing the differences with the organizations is negative. I don't.

The "unity!" plea is nice. I would love it. When we agree with the NRA (and I talk to ILA staff regularly), we even say so. But when we don't, and we think they are supporting gun control (the mental health database they are supporting right now is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction), we'll always say so. The die-hard NRA types don't like it, but so be it. We're going to be honest.

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.
It's plainly obvious you've never been in the military- otherwise you'd know that working together with your allies usually ensures victory, and fighting on more than one front usually always (with few exceptions) ends in a harsh and cold defeat. I don't ask you to be a diplomat, I don't care what kind of "political brawler" you are... like it or not, we are losing this fight, just look at what transpired in Denver this year despite all the public opposition. So do you think perhaps maybe you should switch up your tactics and see how that pans out? Or will your ego not allow for that? You say "unity" like it's a dirty word. If you try to say you're not constantly trashing other groups, then why is this thread titled "NAGR spends more than every gun group combined"? Every pro-2A group is going for a common goal, for the most part. You don't like the way they do things? Don't like some of the things they've done in the past? Okay. But just remember, Bloomberg seems to be working quite well with Obama (who wanted to put NG troops in NYC after Sandy, against what Bloomberg wanted- they came together against guns, though). I don't care about your pleas for more money- every org needs to gain funding somehow. What I care about is the fact that you won't even entertain the idea of putting aside petty squabbles with the NRA and other groups, and figuring out a way to unite, and defeat these elitist, anti-constitution hacks. We are losing, and despite your narcissistic perception of reality, it's partially because of attitudes like yours.

[davsel]

Guidestar.org lists the 990 filings for EVERY non-profit in America, including RMGO and NAGR. And we provide copies of our filings upon request.

I (and my wife) own one house (though, frankly, it's none of your damn business). My wife has put in thousands of volunteer hours for RMGO, stuffing mail and data entry, and never been paid by RMGO.

But, before I get too mad and start a fight here, I'll tell you straight up that I won't answer any questions from anonymous forum lurkers.

Can you provide a direct link to the RMGO 990 filings? I can't find anything for "Rocky Mountain Gun Owners" or "RMGO" on the Guidestar.org website you posted.

However, this did pop up in my search: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20934409/colorado-gun-group-fails-file-irs-could-be
Interesting.

[3beansalad]

I found this one at least:

http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/54-2015951/national-association-gun-rights.aspx



(http://www.guidestar.org/organizations/54-2015951/national-association-gun-rights.aspx)

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Whoa, whoa, Wait a second.

This user account has been used to portray posts as sourcing from Dudley Brown, but you talk about him in the third person. Your user name is also RMGOdirector. (Dudley)

We do not permit shared accounts. Much less do we support ones that purport to be sourcing from individuals they do not apparently speak for.

I will afford you the opportunity to explain yourself, prior to taking any action, and it better be without the attitude. I'm guessing this might be hoover but obviously a lot of users here understand this account to be Dudley.

Oh boy.....

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[kawiracer14]

There isn't any RMGO or anything with a similar name in Colorado on Guidestar. If someone finds it I can get the full report from there to post here - but it doesn't appear there is a non-profit based out of Windsor, CO related to RMGO...

[RMGOdirector]

This is how we lost the last two presidential elections. Why can't we all just get along?!?!?!

No, we lost the last two Presidential elections because the last two GOP nominees were leftist stooges (and both anti-gun, in any objective sense). But that's another debate.

[HBARleatherneck]

nagr and rmgo are the same. dudley owns both. he runs both. he just calls them separate so people will donate just to the state version or the national version. the virginia based crap is probably for taxes or registering to lobby. its all out of windsor.

[RMGOdirector]

Whoa, whoa, Wait a second.

This user account has been used to portray posts as sourcing from Dudley Brown, but you talk about him in the third person. Your user name is also RMGOdirector. (Dudley)

We do not permit shared accounts. Much less do we support ones that purport to be sourcing from individuals they do not apparently speak for.

I will afford you the opportunity to explain yourself, prior to taking any action, and it better be without the attitude. I'm guessing this might be hoover but obviously a lot of users here understand this account to be Dudley.

Yes, I used my name instead of a pronoun, so that I was perfectly clear who I was talking about. If you doubt I (Dudley Brown) wrote this, pick up a phone and call my office (970-482-7646 -- tell them you are returning my call from the forum) or give me a number to call.

Btw, Keith Hoover no longer works here, if that's who you are referring to.

[RMGOdirector]

nagr and rmgo are the same. dudley owns both. he runs both. he just calls them separate so people will donate just to the state version or the national version. the virginia based crap is probably for taxes or registering to lobby. its all out of windsor.

I don't own anything. They are both non-profits, with separate boards of directors, bank accounts, tax statuses, etc.

RMGO and NAGR do share an office in Windsor.

NAGR was originally registered in Virginia because that's where the founder lived, and then asked me to run it.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I've never seen so much discontentment in one place.






I love it!!!!!

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[kawiracer14]

Let's see a link to the Guidestar for RMGO...

[RMGOdirector]

...doesn't address the issue of supporting (or not) the local CO fight! I can see your point, and that's fine. However, I"m suggesting we fight the LOCAL "policy makers", especially when we know they're headed to DC after this 'stop' in CO!!!


I have duties in both places, and frankly, in State Legislatures around the country. I was down at the Capitol dozens of times this year, though I'm not the day-to-day, face-to-face lobbyist for RMGO (Joe Neville did that for us this year).

(Side note: anyone who tells you lobbying only happens in the Capitol is either lying to you, is a fool, or both. Putting pressure on politicians IN THEIR DISTRICTS is the only real way to change their vote on controversial issues).

One of the reasons RMGO is hiring is because my duties with NAGR are growing (we have 52+ staff members). For that reason, I took a pay CUT for RMGO in 2013, and anticipate I'll be handing more and more duties to others.

You suggest we fight local policy makers, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's why we spend a lot of time on campaigns (via our PAC and IE committee).

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Let's see a link to the Guidestar for RMGO...


I have duties in both places, and frankly, in State Legislatures around the country. I was down at the Capitol dozens of times this year, though I'm not the day-to-day, face-to-face lobbyist for RMGO (Joe Neville did that for us this year).

(Side note: anyone who tells you lobbying only happens in the Capitol is either lying to you, is a fool, or both. Putting pressure on politicians IN THEIR DISTRICTS is the only real way to change their vote on controversial issues).

One of the reasons RMGO is hiring is because my duties with NAGR are growing (we have 52+ staff members). For that reason, I took a pay CUT for RMGO in 2013, and anticipate I'll be handing more and more duties to others.

You suggest we fight local policy makers, and I agree wholeheartedly. It's why we spend a lot of time on campaigns (via our PAC and IE committee).

Quit ignoring the man's request!

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[RMGOdirector]

I'm trying to find the same link. It won't pull up via RMGO's EIN, either. I've put in an e-mail to Guidestar to ask, as that is a new problem.

Also putting up a page to link to all our 990 filings (since creation of the group).

[Ronin13]

I wonder if I'm on Dudley's ignore list... He hasn't addressed my concerns... [mop]

[RMGOdirector]

What I care about is the fact that you won't even entertain the idea of putting aside petty squabbles with the NRA and other groups, and figuring out a way to unite, and defeat these elitist, anti-constitution hacks. We are losing, and despite your narcissistic perception of reality, it's partially because of attitudes like yours.

I have addressed this, directly. When a politician or organization endorses gun control, we call it out -- you're a big boy, and can make up your mind if you care.

Did you care that Gottlieb (SAF/CCRKBA) claimed (on video) to have written Toomey-Manchin? I do. You may not, but I do.

When a group endorses anti-gun politicians (Harry Reid, or to strike closer to home, Congresswoman Betsy Markey), we'll say something. And yes, it will ruffle feathers.

Right now the NRA is running commercials against Sen. Joe Manchin in West Virginia. Good for them -- so are we. We're on the same side (now, anyway -- we didn't give Joe Manchin an A+ rating, either), and don't squabble about it.



I've heard too many make wild claims about where money is spent. That was my reason for showing a news report (not my words) on an official federal filing that shows what NAGR spent opposing gun control in Congress.

The Colorado Sec. of State and/or Colorado legislature doesn't require or even have the same type of filings in this state. But if it did, you'd see that RMGO (which is admittedly much smaller in numbers and $ in this state) spent DRAMATICALLY more than the NRA did in Colorado, both this session and previous sessions.

Go to the Sec. of State website and see if you can find another pro-gun political committees (PACs, if you will) in Colorado. Maybe some formed recently, but RMGO PAC has been the ONLY pro-gun PAC (which gives direct donations to and against candidates for office) in Colorado for many years.

Ronin, if I can paraphrase your point, it's that RMGO doesn't play well with others. Mea culpa. We DEFINITELY don't play the standard old politics as usual.

We play well with the conservative, pro-gun team. No one on this forum will or can debate that.

Gun control passed the Colorado legislature for a number of reasons, the chief of them being that EVERY middle of the road GOP candidate lost in 2012. All of them.

And all of RMGO PAC's candidates, save one State House seat (McConnell), won. That swung control of the House to the Dems.

If you want to blame me/RMGO for that, I'll plead guilty to not recruiting enough candidates for office (the toughest part of my job).

[275RLTW]

We play well with the conservative, pro-gun team. No one on this forum will or can debate that.

Apparently not or this thread would have stopped after your 1st post...

[HBARleatherneck]

We play well with the conservative, pro-gun team. No one on this forum will or can debate that.


he means they play well with anyone who doesnt question them or their spending. like most politicians.

[RMGOdirector]

he means they play well with anyone who doesnt question them or their spending. like most politicians.

You obviously aren't involved in politics -- there's PLENTY of questioning from our allies and friends. And debate. And plenty of politicians who question RMGO.

But, ask the most pro-gun legislators what they think of RMGO. HBAR, since you live in Weld and you seem to asserting you know politics (correct me if I'm wrong), go ahead and call State Sen. Scott Renfroe (who has carried almost half of the gun bills in his 7 years in the legislature) and ask him what he thinks of RMGO. He's a Life Member.

Or ask State Reps. Steve Humphrey, Lorie Saine, Perry Buck, or Sen. Vicki Marble (while we're staying in Weld). Or our Sheriff, or DA.

Again, I don't know you, but I'll take those names as endorsements of our program over yours any day -- not because they are politicians, but because I KNOW what they do.

And, we're growing dramatically. Plenty of members endorsing what we do.

[RMGOdirector]

Let's see a link to the Guidestar for RMGO...

Since I haven't received a reply from Guidestar, we put up this page, with our filings to the IRS.

http://www.rmgo.org/taxdocs

[Ronin13]

I have addressed this, directly. When a politician or organization endorses gun control, we call it out -- you're a big boy, and can make up your mind if you care.

When a group endorses anti-gun politicians (Harry Reid, or to strike closer to home, Congresswoman Betsy Markey), we'll say something. And yes, it will ruffle feathers.

Right now the NRA is running commercials against Sen. Joe Manchin in West Virginia. Good for them -- so are we. We're on the same side (now, anyway -- we didn't give Joe Manchin an A+ rating, either), and don't squabble about it.
Depends on what you call "endorsing" gun control. The NRA opposes gun control, same as you and I... again, you obviously don't get the point I'm trying to make- because you just ragged on them again! Your last sentence here: if you were on the same side as the NRA, why make all these posts on this forum and in your messages to public via email or interviews, trash talking your ally? The military taught me a great phrase I'll share with you now: "One team, one fight." I guess you just don't get it, do you? It would be like if we talked crap on the British during WWII (officially, not what soldiers said to each other, but if Eisenhower openly trashed Montgomery). We're in this together, and guess what the prize is for second place? It's not a very nice prize. Can we really afford to lose this war? Infighting will most certainly guarantee a loss. Humble yourself PDQ or move aside and let someone who can unite the gun groups against the anti agenda give it a shot. -that's my advice. Follow it, or don't, you've already proven my money and support is better placed elsewhere.

[HBARleatherneck]

ronin, dudley has to trash talk the NRA. the NRA is his largest competitor. If he said how good the NRA was, why would anyone donate to him? He has to make you think the NRA is in bed with the gun grabbers, so you write him a check.

[RMGOdirector]

Depends on what you call "endorsing" gun control. The NRA opposes gun control, same as you and I...

Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/21/the-nra-wants-an-active-mental-illness-database-thirty-eight-states-have-that-now/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/21/the-nra-wants-an-active-mental-illness-database-thirty-eight-states-have-that-now/)

[Ronin13]

ronin, dudley has to trash talk the NRA. the NRA is his largest competitor. If he said how good the NRA was, why would anyone donate to him? He has to make you think the NRA is in bed with the gun grabbers, so you write him a check.
[ROFL1]
True... he's doing it wrong... If I were in charge of RMGO I would emphasis that yes, the NRA is our friend, but they're on a more national level, meanwhile we're here fighting at the state level- it would be best to support us both for a more robust and well-rounded attack on the anti-gun agenda. But that's if I was in charge... [2cents]

[spqrzilla]

Just when I start to forget why I despise you, Dudley, you make sure to remind me. Good job.

[Ronin13]

Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/21/the-nra-wants-an-active-mental-illness-database-thirty-eight-states-have-that-now/ (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/21/the-nra-wants-an-active-mental-illness-database-thirty-eight-states-have-that-now/)
So you think that diagnosed paranoid Schizophrenics and other dangerous mentally ill individuals (with our already inept and broken mental healthcare system) should just be left unchecked to be able to purchase and have access to firearms? If James Holmes had been professionally diagnosed (that's addressing our broken MH system), and there were a system in place that limited/restricted those who had legitimate diagnosis of dangerous mental illnesses (we're not talking depression and PTSD here- no-shit mental issues that are proven to have led people to murder) you'd oppose it? The mental illness thing is a potential slippery slope, but it's also an issue that needs to be addressed, whether you accept that or not.

[RMGOdirector]

The unintended consequences of this mental health database are incredibly dangerous.

But if you want to support that kind of gun control, go ahead.

You aren't the first person to suggest we always be nice and never say anything about the NRA. Noted. YEARS ago. Not compelled, and not going to change, as I suspect you aren't. Guess we can chalk that up to a difference of opinion, and yes, please, don't join RMGO if that's your opinion. If that's a hanging point, we don't want you as a member.

Is there another issue to solve here? I don't see one.

[BPTactical]

I need a juicebox and a nap.........

[RMGOdirector]

I need a juicebox and a nap.........

LOL

A juicebox. That's good.

[davsel]

I'm no accountant, or MBA holder, but can someone explain to me how Dudley can claim on the 990 forms that he gets paid to work 55 hours per week for RMGO and 62 hours per week for NAGR?

That's a total of 117 hour work week (55 + 62)
That's 16.71 hours a day, 7 days a week (117 / 7)
There are 168 hours in a week (7 x 24)
That leaves 51 hours per week free (168 - 117)
That is 7.29 hours per day free (51 / 7)

7.29 hours a day for eating, bathing, traveling to and from work, and sleeping. And we're talking 7 days per week, every week of the year.

Like I stated, I'm no math major, but I'm not sure Dudley is getting paid enough for carrying such a tough work schedule.

[275RLTW]

Is there another issue to solve here? I don't see one.
YOUR attitude, ego, and ideals for starters...

[MarkCO]

Posts 92 and 93 pretty much sum up this waste of bandwidth.

[BCMEAG]

Hmm...........a conversation of why some Colorado gun owners are unhappy with the main gun rights organization in the state of Colorado is a waste? I guess maybe I don't know enough about the history of RMGO and some gun owners (I mean this in all seriousness).

[MarkCO]

If you think RMGO is the "main" player, you have not spent much time at the capitol. Half of the legislators on "our" side can't stand the man, nor his tactics, calling him a political terrorist. I agree the message, when it is on guns and not other topics, is good, but the delivery is terrible.

[BCMEAG]

You are correct I have not spent much time at the Capitol, only made it to one day of the gun debates. Care to share who are the main player(s)?

[MarkCO]

With the recent debates. a few of the sheriffs and Koppel were definitely at the front of the bus. There were lots of grass roots people there too as well as a variety of organizations.

[BCMEAG]

I know about the sheriffs, are there any particular organizations other than RMGO that are out there that are about gun rights that we can support with dollars and other support?

[DavieD55]

If you think RMGO is the "main" player, you have not spent much time at the capitol. Half of the legislators on "our" side can't stand the man, nor his tactics, calling him a political terrorist. I agree the message, when it is on guns and not other topics, is good, but the delivery is terrible.
Those so called "ON OUR SIDE" legislators are also the ones who have compromised on the 2nd amendment time and again. The last thing we need is any state legislators calling childish names and compromising on the 2A.