View Full Version : Who here believes immigration reform means amnesty?
I have a friend that is an immigration lawyer. He decided to become one after his dad was thrown into jail for a year when he messed up a yes or no question on his immigration papers and then deported back to Italy, fifteen years later he is still in Italy trying to get back with his family. Anyways i showed this video to my friend and he laughed. He told me you would have to be one lucky SOB if these were the only hurdles you had to jump through.
http://youtu.be/FyyIRWSHbx0
I think this Cato report missed a few things, this activity is commonly known as lies by omission.
The new bill IS essentially a free pass because of all the money that will be allocated to help illegal aliens during their application for citizenship not to mention the ongoing costs of education and health care for the illegal aliens currently residing here. The video does not address the need for border security nor does it discuss the criminal prosecution of people who hire illegal aliens.
I found this on the Heritage Foundation website - http://www.heritage.org/ specifically - http://www.heritage.org/issues/immigration
http://http://blog.heritage.org/2013/07/23/immigration-bill-would-be-a-bonanza-for-special-interest-groups-and-lawyers/
The bill establishes various grants to assist individuals seeking a change in immigration status. As highlighted (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/05/immigration-bill-costs-grants-and-handouts-to-lawyers-and-special-interest-groups#_edn1) in a Heritage Issue Brief, one such program channels $100 million to assist aliens seeking registered provisional immigrant status (amnesty) via a newly established nonprofit, the United States Citizenship Foundation (USCF).
And while $100 million is authorized for the first five years of this effort, the bill provides for such additional “sums as may be necessary for fiscal 2019 and subsequent years.” In other words, a blank check.
Another assistance program provides $50 million in grants to nonprofits to help illegals upgrade to legal status or change from provisional status to permanent residents. These grants can be used for legal assistance, thus committing the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to providing funding for lawsuits against itself.
A third program provides $120 million for a public relations campaign by advocacy groups to inform immigrants of their employee rights. All of these and other various programs total at least $300 million and will grow over time.
Jumpstart
07-25-2013, 07:20
Immigration "reform" = amnesty for multi millions of illegal aliens, again....
Immigration "reform" = amnesty for multi millions of illegal aliens, again....
Paid for with our confiscated tax dollars.
If the 11 million illegals actually paid the fees spoken of in the video that would be $11,000,000,000 in income, I chose to say the illegals paid both $500 fees.
There are an estimated 5.5 million children of illegal aliens enrolled in public education at an estimated cost of $12,300 per pupil which equals $67,650,000,000 per year.
11 billion is 16.26% of the total spent on education of these illegal alien children and that 11 billion is a one time fee, while the 67.65 billion is an annualized cost multiplied by 12 years equals 811,800,000,000 dollars (811.8 Billion).
I did not perform any calculation on their health care.
This webpage shows annual per student public education costs from 2009 at $10,695 per year, even in 2009 dollars the money we spend educating the children of illegals is ENORMOUS and we will NEVER be reimbursed.
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66
buffalobo
07-25-2013, 07:54
Bread and circuses, with no enforcement the illegals will not participate, why should they. Will just stay illegal and under the radar.
Many states have/will pass laws to give them drivers licenses. They will scam electoral system to vote, Dems will get the votes, Repubs will get the cheap labor, lawyers will get the money from .gov.
Citizens and legit immigrants will get screwed.
Rabid, not trying to start anything, but not buying your friends story. Either details left out or the dads situation is unique and not commom.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
palepainter
07-25-2013, 07:58
I think that even talking about it and proposing it is just drawing people in like flies on shit. The border must be busy these days.
The Cato institute should be ashamed of that video. It presents only one side and omits truths regarding the costs of that one position.
I spent around an hour getting my numbers and making the calculation and I am just one man. Cato no doubt has a team of researchers and they could have easily provided the data I found but Cato chose not to because doing that work would defeat the purpose of their FUCKING LYING, PIECE OF SHIT video.
Great-Kazoo
07-25-2013, 08:04
IMO the only real-hard core factual thing AMNESTY will do is increase the democrat voter rolls to the point D's will control EVERYTHING. Texas will be bluer than CA & NY combined, AZ will Publically hang Sheriff Arpaio to "right the wrongs" of racist persecution of hispanics, La Raza will sweep CO away. WY, ID ND, possibly NE KS and OK will be the only states with an inkling of sanity.
AMNESTY= the final straw of Americas Downfall. Then again all empires eventually fall.
Another waste of our tax dollars. They can't get any other program right, what makes you think this one will end up any different.
Something else Cato missed in the lies of omission they call an informative video.
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/06/senate-immigration-bill-does-not-require-payment-of-all-back-taxes
There are many serious flaws in the controversial Senate immigration bill, the Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act (S. 744). One such flaw is that it fails a standard of basic fairness to which immigration has long been held: It does not meaningfully require illegal immigrants to pay back taxes, interest, and penalties on all the income they earned while here in the U.S. illegally before being granted legal status.
However, the bill gives no instruction as to how the Secretary is to determine the tax liability of someone who has not filed a tax return. Many illegal immigrants work off the books for cash. They would not report that income to the IRS by filing a tax return. How the Secretary would collect back taxes on that unreported income is unclear.
battle_sight_zero
07-25-2013, 09:37
Immigration "reform" = amnesty for multi millions of illegal aliens, again....
Immigration reform= 12 million to 40 million new registered democrats. No way in hell will I support it.
if 11 million illegals have 5.5 million brats, how many brats can 20 million (a more realistic number since illegals are UNTRACEABLE) illegals generate
multiply that number by $12,300 and we get even more free shit for people who didn't earn it
sellersm
07-25-2013, 09:46
As one of the Senators said, "we have to legalize them all so we know who's here" (I think was Cruz)... WHAT? Hold on, we've got NSA and drones and other surveillance that's being used on our LEGAL citizens, and we can't figure out who's here ILLEGALLY, so we have to pass an amnesty bill to find out? Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore....
Sounds an awful lot like the argument used to 'pass' O-care. And it smells the same...
I believe this issue is a lot more dire than D.C. is making it out to be. I support revamping the immigration system, but not amnesty. Secure the border, make this nation a more hostile place to be illegal, and pressure Mexico (they blame us for the immigration problem- no responsibility for having one of the worst countries in the western hemisphere). I hate the fact that my great uncle and cousins in AZ have to keep rifles/shotguns at every entrance to their home because of the border hoppers crossing their property, and leaving behind so much shit (trash, backpacks, dead bodies). I also can't stand the fact that so many come here and either by laziness or inconsiderate asshole-ness, refuse to learn English and basically make us bend to their will... I don't think so! No amnesty!
Paid for with our confiscated federal tax dollars.
That you legally don't have to pay anyway.... (no law actually says that you have to pay federal taxes)
Eggysrun
07-25-2013, 09:56
I was canadian born, got my green card to the US when I was 22 and enlisted into the army when I was 24 which would also help fast track the naturalization process. Deployed to Iraq in December 6th 2007, I was sworn in as a US citizen in Iraq September 1st, 2008. That's my story of how I became a proud american.
Do I support amnesty? hell f**king no! I earned my right to be a US citizen through blood, sweat and tears and so should anyone else trying to do the same.
I wasn't the only. Here's a pic from the ceremony of the 200+ other people getting sworn in that day.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j67/cmarkl/IRAQ/IMG_0278a.jpg
The proudest day of my life.
sellersm
07-25-2013, 10:02
Great story, Eggysrun! Congrats and thanks for your service! It's a sad day that we're even having this discussion...
That you legally don't have to pay anyway.... (no law actually says that you have to pay federal taxes)
The 16th Amendment to the US Constitution:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
This boils down to the most basic concept that I was taught as a child. You never appreciate something that you don't have to work for. By handing citizenship to all these illegals, it's not teaching them what it truly means to be a citizen. When you work for something, you hold it's value high and do everything you can to keep that value high. When you're a spoiled brat, you toss things to the side and want more more more.
Bread and circuses, with no enforcement the illegals will not participate, why should they. Will just stay illegal and under the radar.
Many states have/will pass laws to give them drivers licenses. They will scam electoral system to vote, Dems will get the votes, Repubs will get the cheap labor, lawyers will get the money from .gov.
Citizens and legit immigrants will get screwed.
Rabid, not trying to start anything, but not buying your friends story. Either details left out or the dads situation is unique and not commom.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Do not worry i know your not starting anything any more then i was, yes i stirred the pot because its hard to understand what is going on when almost none of us have had to do it. His story is true and not all that uncommon in one form or another. I make fun of his for his career choice all the time and he reminds me time and time again that he grants no free rides or fast tracks to citizenship, he just helps them follow the letter of the law. Some how the people that come to this country legally with a work visa are held to a higher standard then the illegals crossing our southern border. I know a hand full of immigrants from European countries that are going through or completed the process to become citizens. Believe it or not all that can vote, vote republican and believe the illegals need to be deported. The thought that our and other state governments are incentivizing illegals is disgusts me, criminals should be treated as such and we can all agree on that. I doubt anything that passes the house would have that BS contained in it. Roberth the video is not talking about illegals sucking our system dry, and trust me i am just as appalled as you when it comes to that, it is just countering the idea that these immigrants are granted amnesty with immigration reform. They still have to go through the same process that everyone did before. It just giving more work visas so we can collect taxes on them with a one time chance to do it right, not to mention most will fail to complete the process anyway and be deported.
That you legally don't have to pay anyway.... (no law actually says that you have to pay federal taxes)
You go ahead and don't pay for a few years.
Keep us appraised of your situation.
Maybe we'll send you a care package whilst you while away the hours with your new best friends in the federal penal system.
/snip
Roberth the video is not talking about illegals sucking our system dry, and trust me i am just as appalled as you when it comes to that, it is just countering the idea that these immigrants are granted amnesty with immigration reform. They still have to go through the same process that everyone did before. It just giving more work visas so we can collect taxes on them with a one time chance to do it right, not to mention most will fail to complete the process anyway and be deported.
My interpretation of the video is much harsher than yours.
The intent of the video is to garner support for the poor illegal who almost has to !gasp! pay a whole $1000 for the privilege of attempting to become a citizen.
I read b/t the lines and correctly surmised that the reason the video talks about the fees is because they are attempting to show that the illegals are going to pay their own way, the reality is those fees and taxes will never be paid except by the net tax payers of this country. Most illegals will be net tax receivers for their entire stay in this country, legal or otherwise, simply because they aren't smart enough to do anything except dig ditches and create anchor babies. Illegals will never be the next Bill Gates or Henry Ford or anyone with any ambition beyond capturing the next government handout and the state will happily fill out the paperwork so the illegals won't have to learn English either.
Who here believes immigration reform means amnesty?
I do.
Why not mine the boarder and post signs. Could send a plane to drop aerial mines.
sellersm
07-25-2013, 13:19
You go ahead and don't pay for a few years.
Keep us appraised of your situation.
Maybe we'll send you a care package whilst you while away the hours with your new best friends in the federal penal system.
Doesn't mean it's right, or that there's REAL authority behind why they can do that... Better yet, show us the law that says they can do that.
My interpretation of the video is much harsher than yours.
The intent of the video is to garner support for the poor illegal who almost has to !gasp! pay a whole $1000 for the privilege of attempting to become a citizen.
I read b/t the lines and correctly surmised that the reason the video talks about the fees is because they are attempting to show that the illegals are going to pay their own way, the reality is those fees and taxes will never be paid except by the net tax payers of this country. Most illegals will be net tax receivers for their entire stay in this country, legal or otherwise, simply because they aren't smart enough to do anything except dig ditches and create anchor babies. Illegals will never be the next Bill Gates or Henry Ford or anyone will any ambition beyond capturing the next government handout and the state will happily fill out the paperwork so the illegals won't have to learn English either.
You have managed to read so far between the lines you are confusing legal with illegal but i guess you have correctly surmised to do that some how. There are many legal immigrants that have contributed to your daily life more then you will ever know and i am not talking about the ones the serve you fast food or maintain the roads, i am talking about the ones the helped build most of the computer, technology and medical industry to name a few but if you are going to throw out Bill Gates and Henry Ford i will give you a few too. Andrew Carnegie, Nikola Tesla, Antonio Meucci and Alexander Graham Bell come to mind.
Let me help you understand legals have to go through the system and have to contribute like the rest of us or they get deported. Just think of how many tax dollars we are missing out on by not giving work visas. Once they are in the system we can weed them out much quicker then if they are here illegally and have no record of them. There is nothing in the bills i have seen tossed around that make it easy for illegals to live here, besides the one time chance to get in the system and risk deportation if they do not contribute. Most will fail to run through the system and depending how they did there is a good chance they will never get a chance to try again.
I am not going to bat for illegals here. I do not want them here getting a free ride and sucking on the system. Personally i think we should be able to uses the illegals for labor to pay off their debts to America before deporting them. If they do it legally, contribute back and can be weeded out at will is not a problem to me.
You have managed to read so far between the lines you are confusing legal with illegal but i guess you have correctly surmised to do that some how. There are many legal immigrants that have contributed to your daily life more then you will ever know and i am not talking about the ones the serve you fast food or maintain the roads, i am talking about the ones the helped build most of the computer, technology and medical industry to name a few but if you are going to throw out Bill Gates and Henry Ford i will give you a few too. come to mind.
Let me help you understand legals have to go through the system and have to contribute like the rest of us or they get deported. Just think of how many tax dollars we are missing out on by not giving work visas. Once they are in the system we can weed them out much quicker then if they are here illegally and have no record of them. There is nothing in the bills i have seen tossed around that make it easy for illegals to live here, besides the one time chance to get in the system and risk deportation if they do not contribute. Most will fail to run through the system and depending how they did there is a good chance they will never get a chance to try again.
I am not going to bat for illegals here. I do not want them here getting a free ride and sucking on the system. Personally i think we should be able to uses the illegals for labor to pay off their debts to America before deporting them. If they do it legally, contribute back and can be weeded out at will is not a problem to me.
Just because it is your thread and you don't have a leg to stand on doesn't mean you can suddenly go back in time and presume that Andrew Carnegie, Nikola Tesla, Antonio Meucci and Alexander Graham Bell were illegal aliens who made good. These were smart and ambitious men with great dreams who assimilated into the American culture, experience and capitalism and realized their dreams.
Today's illegal aliens have no such aspirations and probably cannot even spell dream in English.
battle_sight_zero
07-25-2013, 13:38
They still have to go through the same process that everyone did before. It just giving more work visas so we can collect taxes on them with a one time chance to do it right, not to mention most will fail to complete the process anyway and be deported.[/QUOTE]
BULLSHITT AND MORE BULLSHITT, why should breaking the law give these criminals a place in line over a Russian, African etc who is following the rules to get here. All this nonsense about immigration reform is strengthen a democrat party and getting cheap labor. Personally I worry for my kids down the road as they are competing with Jorge and Juanita who broke the law to get here. There are just to many repercussions to allow this garbage to happen. Build the damn fences and sent them back and then they can apply to get here just like the rest of the world has to.
Why not mine the boarder and post sings. Could send a plane to drop aerial mines.
Karaoke has been ruled to be a violation of the Geneva Conventions...
BULLSHITT AND MORE BULLSHITT, why should breaking the law give these criminals a place in line over a Russian, African etc who is following the rules to get here. All this nonsense about immigration reform is strengthen a democrat party and getting cheap labor. Personally I worry for my kids down the road as they are competing with Jorge and Juanita who broke the law to get here. There are just to many repercussions to allow this garbage to happen. Build the damn fences and sent them back and then they can apply to get here just like the rest of the world has to.
Actually, they can't come back- because by deporting them they've been charged with being here illegally, thus they have a criminal record and are not welcome to be legal citizens... And I'm totally cool with this. Can't do it right the first time, then don't even bother trying at all. [Coffee]
Just because it is your thread and you don't have a leg to stand on doesn't mean you can suddenly go back in time and presume that Andrew Carnegie, Nikola Tesla, Antonio Meucci and Alexander Graham Bell were illegal aliens who made good. These were smart and ambitious men with great dreams who assimilated into the American culture, experience and capitalism and realized their dreams.
Today's illegal aliens have no such aspirations and probably cannot even spell dream in English.
Stop trying to read between the lines. I never said they were illegal immigrants and i never said we should have illegal immigrants in this country. If anything i think we need to make an example of them so they never try to do it again and we get their debt paid back to us. Does any one really think even a 1/16 of the people that apply for citizenship will be able to do it from south of the boarder? With their taxes they pay for their own deportation and i like that idea.
You have managed to read so far between the lines you are confusing legal with illegal but i guess you have correctly surmised to do that some how. There are many legal immigrants that have contributed to your daily life more then you will ever know and i am not talking about the ones the serve you fast food or maintain the roads, i am talking about the ones the helped build most of the computer, technology and medical industry to name a few but if you are going to throw out Bill Gates and Henry Ford i will give you a few too. Andrew Carnegie, Nikola Tesla, Antonio Meucci and Alexander Graham Bell come to mind.
Right here Rabid - from your own keyboard.
We were talking about illegals and then you changed the subject to legal immigrants. I never once mentioned legal immigrants, I am only talking about illegal aliens.
Right here Rabid - from your own keyboard.
We were talking about illegals and then you changed the subject to legal immigrants. I never once mentioned legal immigrants, I am only talking about illegal aliens.
Yep, time to sharpen them reading skills.
<MADDOG>
07-25-2013, 15:42
I guess my addition/question to this is: how many migrant workers are actually going to apply for this? How many are actually here to get a check to feed their families across the border?
I've known a lot of natural-born US citizens that flat refuse to work normal jobs with payroll deductions for taxes, they will ONLY do "under the table" work for cash, yet still milk the system for .gov handouts every chance they get. IMO, people like that are just as much a part of the problem as illegal immigrants.
<edit> Now, I'm not against making a buck here and there doing odd jobs, not at all. Just the people that will ONLY do under the table work, and still demand a government tit to suck on.
I've known a lot of natural-born US citizens that flat refuse to work normal jobs with payroll deductions for taxes, they will ONLY do "under the table" work for cash, yet still milk the system for .gov handouts every chance they get. IMO, people like that are just as much a part of the problem as illegal immigrants.
Agreed, this why the people that emigrate here are held to a higher standard to become a citizen. No one is getting a golden ticket when they get their work visa, we as a country just get to collect their tax dollars on their way back out.
Superorb
08-01-2013, 17:54
Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.
/rant
Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.
/rant
Liked :)
Jumpstart
08-01-2013, 19:43
I guess my addition/question to this is: how many migrant workers are actually going to apply for this? How many are actually here to get a check to feed their families across the border?
Mexico's obesity rate is higher than the U.S.. Sounds like the "poor" Mexicans are eating well.
Superorb
08-01-2013, 21:06
Mexico's obesity rate is higher than the U.S.. Sounds like the "poor" Mexicans are eating well.
Eat a metric ton of cheap Mexican food and you'll be fat too. Think, ALL Mexican food has tortillas and rice in it.
I was canadian born, got my green card to the US when I was 22 and enlisted into the army when I was 24 which would also help fast track the naturalization process. Deployed to Iraq in December 6th 2007, I was sworn in as a US citizen in Iraq September 1st, 2008. That's my story of how I became a proud american.
Do I support amnesty? hell f**king no! I earned my right to be a US citizen through blood, sweat and tears and so should anyone else trying to do the same.
I wasn't the only. Here's a pic from the ceremony of the 200+ other people getting sworn in that day.
The proudest day of my life.
You've made your country proud today!
Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.
/rant
9/10
Liked :)
'MERICA
'MERICA
:)
I prefer the "3rd world shithole" description of mexico. b/c it is the most accurate description and i remember someone on this board getting all butthurt over it.
:)
I prefer the "3rd world shithole" description of mexico. b/c it is the most accurate description and i remember someone on this board getting all butthurt over it.
[ROFL3] Oh.....and I concur. Also agree 100% with SuperOrb.
Those politicians in Washington didn't enforce our immigration laws before, why should we believe that they would enforce new laws? You have to respect the pattern.
My wife had to follow the immigration laws to become a US citizen and the idea of amnesty really gets her fired up.
I was canadian born, got my green card to the US when I was 22 and enlisted into the army when I was 24 which would also help fast track the naturalization process. Deployed to Iraq in December 6th 2007, I was sworn in as a US citizen in Iraq September 1st, 2008. That's my story of how I became a proud american.
Do I support amnesty? hell f**king no! I earned my right to be a US citizen through blood, sweat and tears and so should anyone else trying to do the same.
I wasn't the only. Here's a pic from the ceremony of the 200+ other people getting sworn in that day.
The proudest day of my life.
Awesome!
Thank you all for your service and dedication.
Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.
/rant
Amen! I can't stand that 9/10 signs on Colfax just west outside of Downtown are in Spanish, among other things... do you see signs in Moscow written in freaking Portuguese?
Superorb
08-02-2013, 11:55
Amen! I can't stand that 9/10 signs on Colfax just west outside of Downtown are in Spanish, among other things... do you see signs in Moscow written in freaking Portuguese?
9/10 signs? I've been downtown twice since moving here 2 years ago and both times it was for the Ski expo.
Rucker61
08-02-2013, 15:35
Deport them all. No exceptions. If you're not a citizen you're loaded onto a bus and shipped back to wherever you came from. If you had kids in the US and you were illegal than your kids are illegal by default. No more of this anchor baby crap. No more wellfare and other benefits for the anchor baby with illegal parents. If you can't afford to live here get a job or GTFO. If you can't keep your legs closed and can't pay the bills then GTFO. Secure the border. Build a fence along the hundreds of miles without one. And man the fence with armed personnel. It's about time we actually start protecting this country instead of fighting wars on foreign lands. Foreign aid to countries that hate us must stop. What's the point? Securing our borders is simple to do, but the clowns in DC don't want to secure the border. The more voters and cheap laborers they get the better. And who pays the price? You guessed it, citizens. And for fuck's sake declare English the national language. Everywhere I go in and around Denver feels like friggin Tijuana. We shouldn't be bending over to please all the illegals, they're here illegally after all. They're turning the US into the smoldering cesspool that is Mexico.
/rant
Can't fully support this. It's not economically feasible, for one, especially for folks that hate big government. What's it going to take create and staff a new bureaucracy to locate, arrest, detain, feed, house, transport, review the status, and deport 10 million people to various countries that may not take them back. Additionally, who is going to pick our fruit and vegetables if the illegals are gone? I'm not for any path to citizenship that doesn't involve military service, for sure. Are you going to make it illegal to speak a foreign language?
9/10 signs? I've been downtown twice since moving here 2 years ago and both times it was for the Ski expo.
Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...
Are you going to make it illegal to speak a foreign language?
The other bleeding heart comments aside- because I'd rather not get into that- I have to address this. Did anyone say that? No. Just that it's very difficult to be a French speaker in Saudi Arabia, yet not illegal, thus here, if you don't speak English, it should be difficult for you to function in America. No one is saying make it illegal, just make it harder for those living here who don't speak the language. You're trying to turn things around... Look at Brazil, they have a big illegal immigration problem with immigrants from Boliva- Brazil speaks Portuguese, Bolivia speaks Spanish. Don't you think it rude to move to a country and refuse to speak the language of that nation? I feel like we've been on this topic before, so before anyone makes the fallacious claim that "we don't strictly speak English in America" I dare you to explain why our laws, our congress, and other forms of business in this nation are done in English... [Poke]
spqrzilla
08-02-2013, 17:22
A good friend of mine is original Portuguese. Naturalized citizen. She speaks better English than I do now.
Is more right wing than I too, which is the more challenging accomplishment.
And you should hear her about illegal immigration .... wooo hooo scorch your ears off.
Rucker61
08-02-2013, 19:38
Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...
The other bleeding heart comments aside-
Actually, that's the most interesting part of the discussion. I consider it an interesting thought exercise, and wish I had the time and resources to do a study on what it would take to "deport all of the illegals". Let's put the political and funding as givens, as those arguments aren't that interesting - can we get enough votes in the government to do it, and can we fund the activity? If we assume "yes" and "yes", then the fun begins.
Goal: Deport all illegals.
Basic premise: round them all up and ship them back to where they came from.
Step one: how to identify them? Let's assume 10 million illegal immigrants, just to make the math easy. That means there are around 300 million of us that aren't. Somehow we've got to pick out every 30th person in the US, prove that they are not here legally, then locate them.
Step two: locate and take them into custody. Given that IA's are less likely to be in any database than legals, we're forced to do things more manually. Do we throw a cordon around entire cities, or neighborhoods, then go door to door? Let's say our foolproof ID method works. Then we need enough resources to go get them and arrest them, and bring them to the detention centers.
Step three: We're going to need a lot of detention centers with staffing and resources.
Step four: Shipping them out. Assuming that we get them all, interview them, throw the wrongfully detained legals back, and identify through the language barriers where they came from, then we send the back. According to one report, 56% of illegals in 2006 were from Mexico. Let's say it's 50%, to make the math easier. We need to ship out 5 million people to Mexico. Can't afford to fly them, even in USAF assets, so we use mass transit like buses and cattle cars to take them from the centers in EL Paso, San Diego, Houston, NYC, etc. to the border. Let's say up and down the border we can send 100,000 a week. What happens when Mexico closes their side of the border? Just because we tell them these are Mexican citizens coming home doesn't mean that a) they believe us, so they'll need to do their own screening or b) screw you gringos, we can't feed those people you keep them. Pretty soon there isn't any room in No Man's Land to take any more people. And if they do get through or remain in border camps, they will be victimized by the predators in the group or waiting for them across the border. We'll need to be prepared to address the victimization of thousands of women and children. And that's just for the half that are Mexican. How do we get the other 2 million back to Central America, or back to Asia, Europe and Africa.
I'm a logistician at heart and by training, so that's usually the first way I look at a complex problem. It's not a bleeding heart view, it's a operations professional's view. And it also calls to mind related rates problems from early Algebra classes - as the pipe is emptying the pool at one rate, the pool is getting filled by another pipe at a different rate. That's going to increase the total deportation requirements, unless we find a way to turn off that input flow.
And that's without even considering the political, judicial and financial hurdles. The DEA just had to pay a kid $4M for screwing up an arrest. At a 1% error rate for false arrest and detention, even at $1M a pop that's $100B.
I have to address this. Did anyone say that? No. Just that it's very difficult to be a French speaker in Saudi Arabia, yet not illegal, thus here, if you don't speak English, it should be difficult for you to function in America. No one is saying make it illegal, just make it harder for those living here who don't speak the language. You're trying to turn things around... Look at Brazil, they have a big illegal immigration problem with immigrants from Boliva- Brazil speaks Portuguese, Bolivia speaks Spanish. Don't you think it rude to move to a country and refuse to speak the language of that nation? I feel like we've been on this topic before, so before anyone makes the fallacious claim that "we don't strictly speak English in America" I dare you to explain why our laws, our congress, and other forms of business in this nation are done in English... [Poke]
Agree with all of that. Given the position of English in our country, why ask for a national language? What would change? Would it be illegal to offer forms and tests in any language other than English, either by a private business or by a government at any level? I have no idea what the OP wants in a national language, or what restrictions would occur.
If you're talking about making English the national language, that might be interesting in a state like New Mexico whose constitution is in English and Spanish. They have a heritage of supporting both languages.
Superorb
08-04-2013, 23:26
Forgive me, I don't understand what you're saying here...
Someone had mentioned a 9/10 sign and I have no idea what that is.
Someone had mentioned a 9/10 sign and I have no idea what that is.
9 signs, out of 10 signs, on W. Colfax just outside of Downtown, are in Spanish... Maybe Google Maps street view can help with this. I just find it disturbing that we as a nation just let this happen without any protest or second thought. I guess I'll just go buy a billboard and put up an advertisement in Russian or Dutch, see if anyone notices or cares. [cigar]
Superorb
08-05-2013, 11:05
^^ Ahh, gotcha. Yes, I agree. Almost EVERY other country in the world has a declared national language, why couldn't we do the same?
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 11:47
All tests have to be printed in two languages, we have to have different classrooms that speak spanish, road signs in two languages, posters in government buildings, it is costing the taxpayer billions and just getting worse. The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.
Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.
To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.
If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.
BTW: This will never happen.
Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.
To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.
If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.
BTW: This will never happen.
You took the words off my keyboard. I was going to say this earlier but work got in the way.
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 12:52
Rucker61,
Yes, it would be a logistical nightmare to deport all illegals according to the plan you have laid out - due to the number of illegals involved. However, if the number were reduced, I believe it would be feasible.
To reduce the number of illegals needing forced deportation, why not employ plans that increase "self-deportation?"
We can do this by decreasing the jobs available to illegals by actually prosecuting employers of illegals.
We can cut off welfare benefits to illegals.
We can cut off public services to illegals.
If we make it hard to be an illegal alien in this country, most will go home/elsewhere.
Those that remain can then be rounded up and deported.
Rounding them up is simple, just have an "Illegal Alien Civil Rights" rally, and 90% will show up wherever you like.
BTW: This will never happen.
We can all dream though. We dont have to give them a ride back but we could at least try not to make it easy for them to be here.
The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.
Ding! Ding! Ding! You win! That's awesome! [Beer]
Superorb
08-05-2013, 20:42
All tests have to be printed in two languages, we have to have different classrooms that speak spanish, road signs in two languages, posters in government buildings, it is costing the taxpayer billions and just getting worse. The only sign we need in spanish is the one pointing to the best road back to the border.
It has taken my wife 3 years to get a job here since she doesn't speak Spanish. Most positions in Denver schools all require Spanish speaking teachers. She's from Spain, but she speaks no Spanish and has no accent. If all the kids spoke English she'd have gotten hired 3 years ago. I hate all the Spanish-only classes, not to mention the 3-week long summer school whose ONLY purpose is to help Spanish kids that don't speak English. We are spending an exorbitant amount of money catering to these bastards.
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 21:13
It would be one thing if they helped support the system. They will tell you they pay taxes, but then they cheat the system by paying in 5000 but then claiming a ton of kids and getting 9000 back so they are actually making more money off the system. I have actually heard there are people at my work who "share" children to get more of a return. I dont think a person should be able to get more back than they payed in, My tax money shouldnt go to them because they cant keep their legs closed or use birth control. That goes for citizens too. More than a week a month of my salary goes to a government entity of some sort, and they just want more and more. What do we get out of the system, by the time I retire in 20 years or so social security will be gone and bankrupt, and all the money I paid in will be gone. Healthcare will be nonexistent and bankrupt thanks to obamacare. If things keep going the way they are the government will default on its loans and we will be run by china, germany and whoever else we borrowed money from. Sometimes it is just hard to be positive about where things are going.
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