selling mags out of state under new laws

[bchase75]

Hi all,

A friend of mine has some mags (more than 15 rounds capacity) that we wants to get rid of, and last weekend he asked me if he could legally post them on gunbroker and sell them to folks outside Colorado. Any thoughts as to whether or not that would violate our new gun laws?

Thanks.

[newracer]

Technically he cannot.

[Kraven251]

Technically he cannot.

Are you sure? Dealers can sell to out of state entities, why wouldn't private sales out of state fall under this umbrella? or is this a grey area being hit on in the lawsuits?

[sniper7]

I Dont see why he can't other than the continuous posession since it would be possessed by the post office or ups.
To be absolutely sure he could drive to Wyoming and they could ship from there. Then again it probably is driven or flown down to dia and out from there if he sends them by air.

I think he would be good to go. Nobody is allowed to open your mail as it is a federal offense so they can't really possess the contents. A bit of a grey area but just one more reason this law is total bullshit.

[newracer]

Yes there are ways around it but technically it is illegal. I used to think the same as you.


18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties -6 exceptions.
(1)(a)EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS SECTION, ON AND AFTER
JULY 1, 2013, A PERSON WHO SELLS, TRANSFERS, OR POSSESSES A LARGE
- CAPACITY MAGAZINE COMMITS A CLASS 2 MISDEMEANOR

There is no exemption for private sale out of state.

[Sharpienads]

Technically he cannot.

After re-reading the bill, I am inclined to agree. The bill specifies who can sell out of state, and an idividual who is not acting in official employment duties for a company that manufactures "high-cap mags" is not permitted.

That being said, I'm not a lawyer. Oh yeah, and fuck this law.

ETA: Off topic, but after re-re-reading the bill, it appears as though an individual who is a cop, military, etc, who carries a firearm in their official duties can buy the high cap mags as long as they are used for official duties.

(3) THE OFFENSE DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION (1) OF THIS SECTION
SHALL NOT APPLY TO:
(a) blah blah blah
(b) AN EMPLOYEE OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES WHO BEARS
A FIREARM IN THE COURSE OF HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES:
(I) A BRANCH OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES; OR
(II) A DEPARTMENT, AGENCY, OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE
STATE OF COLORADO, OR OF ANY OTHER STATE, OR OF THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT; OR
(c) A PERSON WHO POSSESSES THE MAGAZINE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE
OF TRANSPORTING THE MAGAZINE TO AN OUT-OF-STATE ENTITY ON BEHALF
OF A MANUFACTURER OF LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES WITHIN COLORADO.

[BlasterBob]

Makes it appear that if an individual sells an AR to someone in a different State, (via/through FFL to FFL as required) then the high cap magazine cannot be included in the sale/transfer even if that mag is totally legal in the buyers State???[pileoshit]

[Circuits]

Makes it appear that if an individual sells an AR to someone in a different State, (via/through FFL to FFL as required) then the high cap magazine cannot be included in the sale/transfer even if that mag is totally legal in the buyers State???[pileoshit]

It is technically illegal to do the transfer of a large capacity magazine yourself, even to an out of state transferee, though you can transfer the mag to an FFL, who would be allowed to transfer it legally to the buyer in another state - CRS 18-12-302(3)(a)(V) "An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine;"

I was incorrect in my earlier reading that only a manufacturer can do it, as 18-12-302(3)(a) includes "... or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in 12-26.1-106(6) .... " in addition to the manufacturer of large capacity magazines.

You could also legally take the mags out of state yourself, and then transfer them to someone else while outside of Colorado, since there is no federal regulation on the possession or transfer of magazines.

[sniper7]

You aren't supposed to ship ammo via USPS but it happens all the time.
You aren't supposed to ship ammo by air but somehow it makes it to Alaska by air every day.

There is nothing that says you can't ship parts of a mag as far as I know. Hell they even make parts available to CA.

[merl]

It is technically illegal to do the transfer of a large capacity magazine yourself, even to an out of state transferee, though you can transfer the mag to an FFL, who would be allowed to transfer it legally to the buyer in another state - CRS 18-12-302(3)(a)(V) "An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine;"

I was incorrect in my earlier reading that only a manufacturer can do it, as 18-12-302(3)(a) includes "... or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in 12-26.1-106(6) .... " in addition to the manufacturer of large capacity magazines.

You could also legally take the mags out of state yourself, and then transfer them to someone else while outside of Colorado, since there is no federal regulation on the possession or transfer of magazines.

I do not see where you can sell (give) your mags to a FFL though. The FFL can sell their stock outside the state but I don't see where an individual within the state can transfer to a FFL.

That section on firearms retailer sales (FFL sales) could easily be read that mags can only be sold out out state with a gun sale.


Yes our property has been deprived of all value without compensation.

[newracer]

It is technically illegal to do the transfer of a large capacity magazine yourself, even to an out of state transferee, though you can transfer the mag to an FFL, who would be allowed to transfer it legally to the buyer in another state - CRS 18-12-302(3)(a)(V) "An out-of-state transferee who may legally possess a large-capacity magazine;"

I was incorrect in my earlier reading that only a manufacturer can do it, as 18-12-302(3)(a) includes "... or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in 12-26.1-106(6) .... " in addition to the manufacturer of large capacity magazines.

You could also legally take the mags out of state yourself, and then transfer them to someone else while outside of Colorado, since there is no federal regulation on the possession or transfer of magazines.


I do not see where you can sell (give) your mags to a FFL though. The FFL can sell their stock outside the state but I don't see where an individual within the state can transfer to a FFL.

That section on firearms retailer sales (FFL sales) could easily be read that mags can only be sold out out state with a gun sale.


Yes our property has been deprived of all value without compensation.

I also do not see where a private individual can transfer to an FFL.

Isn't there a law that states personal property cannot be devalued without compensation?

[battle_sight_zero]

Tell your friend to keep the mags, if he has firearms that can use them even better, if not perhaps he can buy the firearm s that can use them. I would not get rid of any magazine that flips off this stupid law created by the commie progressives at 200 Colfax. In the sale section of this site just the other day I was sad to see that someone modified a XDM mag to 15 rounds so it could be sold. If one plans to stay in Colorado for some time dont rid yourself of the mags or firearms utlize 16 rounds or more. First off I hope we overturn this junk, while Morris, Giron Rap Sheet Ronda and other progressives disapear back into the cesspools they call home. As for me I am taking a wait and see attitude withe the upcoming elections. Things dont change in 2014 and 2016 I will be buying and trading again in another free state like Wyoming. The fact that I cant barter in Colorado my personal firearms to other law abiding forum members has me now saving my money to now prepare to move. I would spend 800 or more a month in the local economy related to the 2nd. Now that money is being kept to potentially move me and my family from Colorado. I wont have it sorry local dealers but I wont buy compliant firearms or have my purchases tracked by the state. There is something nefarious brewing in our state right now, and why these progressives are in power things will only get worse.

[bchase75]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I emailed my friend this afternoon and told him he should hold on to those mags.

[Circuits]

I do not see where you can sell (give) your mags to a FFL though.

True, that's more of the ambiguity which will hopefully kill this law.

Section (3) does not exempt law enforcement or military from the provisions of Section (1). It only exempts "An entity, or any employee thereof engaged in his or her employment duties, ... or any licensed gun dealer, as defined in Section 12-26.1-106(6) C.R.S., or any employee thereof engaged in his official employment duties, ..."

A strict reading of the law says that one of those parties mentioned can possess or transfer provided they sell exclusively to one of the classes (I)-(V) ... it does not exempt all of those classes from its own provisions in (1), though. The law, as passed, does not exempt law enforcement or military - it just exempts manufacturers and FFLs who only sell to them.