View Full Version : Profoundly Disconnected - Mike Rowe
cmailliard
07-31-2013, 17:52
Two videos for you boys and girls with kids in school. Mike Rowe is hitting the nail on the head with this.
As a Career Technical Education (CTE) teacher in high school I am amazed at how stupid some people are. "I don't want to send my student to a "vocational" school" that's for the "dumb" kids." Paraphrasing there but that is still what CTE teachers hear. Funny my "vocational" school issued over 1 million dollars in college credit to students last year. This is not scholarship money students are concurrently enrolled at Red Rocks and get the transcripted college credit for attending high school classes (like AP classes). I had a student last year who graduated in May from high school and two weeks later had his Associates in Applied Science degree. He paid about $500 for that degree. He is two years ahead of others, has a degree, has internship experience, has recommendations from industry representatives. How many students graduate high school and get a college degree in the same month? Guess the "dumb" kids aren't so dumb after all, they take advantage of free time and free money.
Some courses at my school - Fire Science, Criminal Justice, Emergency Medical Responder, Digital Audio Production, Cyber Security, Game and App Development, Sports Medicine, Health Science, Emergency Management, Outdoor Leadership, and yes we still have auto classes like Auto Customization. We also still have the wood shop classes but they are pretty awesome and part of our STEM group. We partner with NASA and have an experiment going up to the International Space Station in the next year. Students go to Houston two to four times a year to fly on the reduced gravity aircraft with their experiments.
Don't discount Career Tech Education and look into the programs that your district offers. There are some really great opportunities out there.
http://profoundlydisconnected.com
http://youtu.be/jkWi3MWaDD4
http://youtu.be/A5M9_2aeY9E
Great-Kazoo
07-31-2013, 18:00
Without Votech school's we'd have a bunch of researchers staring at a flat tire scratching their heads. Concurring it's impossible for the tire to be flat on one side as there is no air in the tire. Trust me i've witnessed it first hand. Design and patent a cancer drug Yes. Figure out how to change a tire, not even close.
I attended a few, many a year ago thanks to VA schooling.
Bailey Guns
07-31-2013, 18:08
This is probably the most relevant and refreshing thread I've seen on here in a long time. Thanks.
<MADDOG>
07-31-2013, 18:17
+1 - I couldn't agree with this more.
The construction industry is slowly crawling back; unfortunately with a 20-30% unemployment rate (trade dependent) a couple of years ago, it's hard to get those back who left and found another career path.
Many tradesmen make more than those with Masters degrees.
Being content in your work is worth more than all of the money and degrees that anyone could ever be given.
If you guys get a chance youtube more stuff by Mike Rowe. The guy is spot on. I feel like every middle school kid needs to hear him. I would be so much further in life right now if I had become a plumber or electrician...
StagLefty
07-31-2013, 18:35
Vocational school made a huge difference in my life.
BPTactical
07-31-2013, 18:43
As did I, two years worth of machining classes in night school.
Didn't always use the skills but when needed they are invaluable.
Envision a large ship.
It takes a handful of engineers and naval architechts to design it.
But it takes an army of welders, machinists, plumbers, electricians etc to make that design come to life.
newracer
07-31-2013, 18:57
Long but worth the watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCjsCgvXQ
I tell myself I am going to teach my son electrical in case college falls through. I want him to have a trade to fall back on.
There's nothing wrong with working for a living. It would be a screwed up world if if weren't for the blue collar worker keeping the wheels turning.
Long but worth the watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCjsCgvXQ
My son was at the Jamboree. Mike Rowe was his favorite part.
Aloha_Shooter
07-31-2013, 20:20
I would add Mike Rowe is a Distinguished Eagle Scout and spoke at this year's Jamboree. I am a huge fan of his.
Half the students of the course I graduated from in vocational school had two years of college behind them. They said after two years of college they figured out what they really wanted. A couple went on to get degrees.
I have met too many people that think blue collar workers are too stupid graduate from college.
"Educated idiot" and "educated beyond their level of intelligence" comes to mind about a lot of college degreed people I know.
When I put my tin foil hat on I tend to think the vocational school system was phased out because the liberals couldn't indoctrinate the vocational school students as successfully.
spongejosh
07-31-2013, 21:20
Another good one. I might have originally seen it here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRVdiHu1VCc
How do I get my associates for $500? I need that.
cmailliard
08-01-2013, 07:09
How do I get my associates for $500? I need that.
He took AP classes in 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. He had concurrent enrollment for 2 years with me and my two classes. He used Pell Grants and other scholarship money to take online classes at RRCC. He is taking his EMT class this Fall at RRCC with scholarship money. He figured out how to do pretty much by himself and worked the system for every dime he could. The other part about his kid, he is technically homeless. He pays part of the rent for his grandmas house for him and his brother to live in.
The opportunities are out there, but just as Mike shows on his website, most high school councilors push the 4 year college with every student. They don't offer them many other options, we see and hear this everyday from students. Councilors barely even mention Career Tech Ed because they think it does not fit the 4 year degree avenue. I went to University of Nebraska on an athletic scholarship, I quit swimming at semester and flunked out after the first year. A year later I was an EMT, 2 years after that I was a Firefighter/Paramedic. Keep your kids options open and make sure you and they know what is available to them.
It's on the job training too. I played around at college for a couple of years, then went to work. Five years later most of my friends from school were still going to college. One of them said "Your a laborer?" When I saw him. His mommy was still paying for his clothes, food, school etc. I'm of the opinion that white Americans are trying so hard to give their kids a better life, that many think its shameful to use their body and their mind to earn a living.
Digging ditches has been good for me, I have had the title of PM, but enjoy field work much more. If I was to finish school, I would still do what I do. It's good for me to be able to see what I have accomplished. If a kid is reasonably smart, comes to work every day, and can accept some responsibility, he can move up quickly and make a nice living in construction.
I say it a lot lately... if I could turn back the clock to High school, shit, even after college, I would have entered a trade. At 45 my standard of living is such that it'd be too difficult to start new. I worked my way through college banging nails for my neighbor and enjoyed it, ALOT ! but couldn't picture being 60 and swinging a hammer full time. I didn't have the vision that you don't have to swing the hammer yourself, you just have to have the ability to get someone to do it with/for you.
I just had my kitchen and some other work done at my house. I think the GC did one day of physical labor out of the 3 months they worked here. His guys, or his subs did everything (and their work was better than his)
I say it a lot lately... if I could turn back the clock to High school, shit, even after college, I would have entered a trade. At 45 my standard of living is such that it'd be too difficult to start new. I worked my way through college banging nails for my neighbor and enjoyed it, ALOT ! but couldn't picture being 60 and swinging a hammer full time. I didn't have the vision that you don't have to swing the hammer yourself, you just have to have the ability to get someone to do it with/for you.
I just had my kitchen and some other work done at my house. I think the GC did one day of physical labor out of the 3 months they worked here. His guys, or his subs did everything (and their work was better than his)This could be me as well. I argued endlessly with one of my best friends in HS over his decision to apprentice plumbing vs going to college like me. My argument was, but you're smart, you are wasting your time doing that. I was brainwashed. He is much better off than I am.
I grew up watching my grandfather's body deteriorate from the abuse of manual labor (flooring guy), so I thought that I wanted a nice easy office job. My job is easy, but there is no chance of rising out of the low to medium pay range no matter how hard I work. There are a limited few in my company that make bank, but there is no chance one of the peons can move up to their position. At least with a trade, if you are good and motivated, you could feasibly advance your standing in life.
Portsider86
08-01-2013, 09:17
I wish I had known and had access to this information and mindset in high school. The UC system was shoved down my throat, I was made to believe that if I didn't get in then I would not be successful. I did not take one single elective of my own choosing in high school because I had to meet the minimum requirements for the state universities. My high school at the time had wood shop, auto, and one of the largest ag departments in the area. Now I hear auto & ag are both gone. Now that I wasted a few years in university and racked up a huge student loan I'm finding my way in the trades. I was such a pyro as a kid, if only someone had showed me how to weld back then.
dirtrulz
08-01-2013, 10:01
If I had it all to do over again I would not go to college, I would go to a trade school. I wasted a ton of money in college on crap that means nothing. I was the first to go to college in my family for three generations and it was kind of expected. I would be way ahead money wise to have worked for three years and not spend the thousands on college. When I went I think it was around 20,000 a year without books, now the same school is way over 30,000, might be over 40 by now. You need a dang good job to be able to pay back 160,000 with interest. The blue collar trades will always have jobs available are the pay is only getting better. The large percentage of people graduating form college these days can hack a computer and build a cell phone but can hardly wipe their own ass and will always need someone to do the real work.
I graduated with a buddy who spent 5 years getting his electrical engineer degree. He is now making good money but it took him almost ten years to get there. There are more engineers than jobs out there. Most will never find a job in their field. A good mechanic can make 6 figures after a few years, after two years or less in a trade school.
It is really sad to see the direction this country is going. Each generation is getting more pussified.
The world needs ditch diggers too.
To derail the train of thought, this is my problem with making school easier and easier so the less academically proficient can succeed. The world does indeed require ditch diggers, plumbers, sparkies, iron heads, block heads, concrete guys, janitors and so on. School used to be a place where people decided whether they would use their hands or their pencils. No child left behind is a waste of money.
The world needs ditch diggers too.
Preferably using heavy equipment, not a shovel.
Mike
Join the military - learn a trade - make money all the while.
Then, after 20 years, you get a pension (unheard of outside govt these days) and all the free money you will ever need to complete college if you so choose.
Worked for me.
Jeffrey Lebowski
08-01-2013, 15:27
The world needs ditch diggers too.
I've often thought of becoming a golf club.
If you're not happy with your current job you should become a welder or a rig hand. Preferably both. You'll be guaranteed to make boat loads of money and get all the ladies you could dream of. College is for bums.
LMAO.
Troublco
08-01-2013, 15:52
Join the military - learn a trade - make money all the while.
Then, after 20 years, you get a pension (unheard of outside govt these days) and all the free money you will ever need to complete college if you so choose.
Worked for me.
I did 24 years, and I continue to reap the rewards of that investment. No matter what I gave, what I have received in return outweighs it.
I am constantly amazed at the jobs I see available that sit empty for lack of someone with knowledge and experience; but they are what is considered "trades" jobs. Kids, and a lot of people today, all seem to think they're going to work IT. That's great, but like any other field, there are a finite number of positions needing filled and if there are three times more people than jobs, not only are there going to be folks without jobs but many of those that have them will make less. Which is why so many people who are skilled with their hands (another description I've heard) can make so much money doing what so many people seem to regard as "beneath" them. I don't mean this to sound wrong, but not everyone is cut out to be a programmer, or IT, or an electrical engineer...just like not everyone is cut out to be a mechanic, or an electrician, or a finish carpenter, or a mason. But lots of folks don't want to believe that their little Johnny ain't gonna be an IT whiz. It takes a wide variety of skills to make the world go 'round, and I think the trade/training problem is another symptom of the greater ills our country has. Not many seem to take pride in honest, hard work and what it produces anymore.
Troublco
08-01-2013, 15:58
To derail the train of thought, this is my problem with making school easier and easier so the less academically proficient can succeed. The world does indeed require ditch diggers, plumbers, sparkies, iron heads, block heads, concrete guys, janitors and so on. School used to be a place where people decided whether they would use their hands or their pencils. No child left behind is a waste of money.
+1. A waste of money, and a waster of children and the adults they become.
Great-Kazoo
08-01-2013, 16:30
So how many of us are or were in "trades" / No college degree?
Me but I actually regret not going to college
I sell insurance. I went to ACC part time and worked part time after high school. After one semester, I decided working for a living was more for me. I wouldn't have changed anything with the exception of trying to make it in a pro sport instead. Lol.
buffalobo
08-01-2013, 17:08
Tradesman, Associates degree from tech school and 2 years college no degree.
Have not worked in the fields I went to school for in over 15 years.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
Me but I actually regret not going to college
It's never too late.
Mike
Chad4000
08-01-2013, 17:45
This is probably the most relevant and refreshing thread I've seen on here in a long time. Thanks.
amen...
Two years of college when I did t care. One once I did.
tmleadr03
08-01-2013, 18:00
So how many of us are or were in "trades" / No college degree?
Me. Though I used to have somewhere around 40 credits of college courses. I found physics and chemistry really helped with my job.
spittoon
08-01-2013, 18:00
bucking hay in the summer warren tech industrial machine maintenance high school , us navy 4 year Boiler tech , AFTER boiler room foreman , THEN Pipe fitter supervisor, tech schools work half of my buddy's joined the service, union journeyman tech school we had nothin with out it , we have a good life with it
Great-Kazoo
08-01-2013, 18:04
bucking hay in the summer warren tech industrial machine maintenance high school , us navy 4 year Boiler tech , AFTER boiler room foreman , THEN Pipe fitter supervisor, tech schools work half of my buddy's joined the service, union journeyman tech school we had nothin with out it , we have a good life with it
Black Shoe !
Started my electrical apprenticeship at 15. Worked the trade for 4 years then 2 years random jobs. Back in til last year. Journeyman card at 21. Hired on at LaFarge Cement Plant and tested out of all but 18 months of a 4 year Instrumentation union class. Got my Masters license when I was 27. So far the fact I didn't go to high school (have my ged) or college hasn't kept me from getting a job I wanted.
The last 3 jobs I've had I made 45-60k a year plus whatever else I make on the side in unrelated income. I played around with contracting when I was out of a job for a few years. Kinda changing course now. Still doing Industrial Electrical Maint. when the plant needs it but doing something else unrelated for the most part. Humility is the most important thing a young man needs to succeed in a job. Be willing to learn and take a few hard knocks when deserved. I gotta say this. Observing the average modern American male "yutes", my boys are going to have a great advantage once they are young men. My 11 year old boy already has a good grasp on electrical theory and has put many a summer hour working. Whenever he complains I tell him he gets to decide what he does when he's 18. As of now he's going to learn what I can give him so he never has to be without a job for long.
Circuits
08-01-2013, 18:25
AS, BS, MS, PhD. But I also worked my ass off at manual labor much of the time, and took/take shop and other continuing ed classes as necssary. State schools and employer programs, paid off all loans by the time I was 30.
BS and MS here. No real debt from that.
Army paid for some of my BS. The rest of the BS and most of my MS was paid by the company I worked for (worked full time at night and went to school full time during the day for most of my BS).
Like Mike Rowe, I found very early that I didn't quite have the aptitude for metal/wood/etc. Anyway, I found my niche, love what I do, and get paid well to do it. I really can't argue w/ that.
2 years school of mines in golden Mech engineering did not work out then 18 months diesel tech school. 7 years in the industry climbed from shit stick to one of top 5 guys in one if the largest dealerships in the country.,,, I Found my passion
75 a year with no 4 year degree and still have 4 years till I am thirty does not hurt either.
PugnacAutMortem
08-02-2013, 00:17
I just love how Mike Rowe describes his topic in this video. It puts it into a different perspective, which is refreshing.
Honestly, if I had really been smart about the whole education thing, I wouldn't have touched a 4 year degree. I didn't want to do it, I hated every second of it, and it cost me more money than I will be able to pay back in any sort of reasonable amount of time. The only reason I finished is because "they" say you can't get a good job without a bachelors (hell, now it's probably "you can't get a good job without a masters"). Honestly, I'm not even proud of getting my degree because I didn't really try all that hard and I only did enough to get by with a passable grade. It's just a mountain of debt that my wife and children are now burdened with. Now, that's not to say I'm not thankful for where I'm at...because I wouldn't have my job right now if I didn't have my degree. But looking back on everything, an alternative education might have been just the thing to kick in my motivation. Instead of being 26, overweight and riddled with debt I might have been 26, in crazy good shape and completely debt free. I dunno. Who knows.
claimbuster
08-02-2013, 05:23
BS & MS in civil engineering here. Went to college right after HS and wasted a lot of time and money. Quit with nothing. Married, two kids and then divorced I still had nothing. Second wife put me through college the second time and what a difference 15 years and a whole lot of growing up did. After CU, I went right back to construction but I was running the jobs and not swinging a hammer any more. Retired now and am always glad I went back to school.
But, like lots of young people I wasn't ready when I was 19, I would have been a lot better off going to trade school. I wasn't ready. I never pushed our kids too hard. We have one that owns a pet grooming shop, another is a truck driver and one has a BS and MS. You know what, they all are happy, have their own families, own a home, etc. Pushing them into something they didn't want would not have worked.
I grew up in a construction household. My father was an iron worker and life was very much feast or famine. When construction was booming life was good and when construction was down life was miserable. We often had to move in with my grandmother when my father would get laid off and was unable to find work. My father always told me to never go into construction, the work is to seasonal and despite the promise of big pay without a college degree the physical toll it takes on your body just isn't worth it. In the early 2000's a lot of my friends became union framers and carpenters. They were driving new trucks, buying houses and doing very well for themselves. At the same time I was making an okay living in telecommunications but I also often worked weekends, evenings and holidays while they were off during most of those times so it was very tempting to follow in their footsteps and take on a union trade. When the housing market collapsed they were all laid off and unable to find work in their trade. Ultimately they lost their trucks, their houses and many of them also lost their wives/families because of the emotional toll and stress caused by almost instant poverty. Most of them had to move back home with their parents and some still do.
Despite not having a degree I have managed to work my way up in a very large corporation and make a great living doing what I do. Most of my collegues have MBA's from instutions like DU and the 6 figure debt that goes along with it, despite their MBA's and insane debt they don't make any more $$ than I do and I am quite honestly better at my job than most of them. Sadly, due to not having a degree I am limited in how much further up the ladder I can climb. The next level in my career would be to become a director which is possible but is the absolute ceiling in my profession without a degree. I have often considered going to college to get a degree and may end up doing so at some point but I've already made the decision to become and independant consultant in my field within the next 1-2 years which will allow me to be my own boss, have limitless earning potential and does not require a degree, just comprehensive industry experience.
If you are reading this thread right now and considering a career change let me share something with you that my father used to tell me all the time. "Son when you are trying to decide what you want to do in life just remember this, no matter how bad things get people will always get sick, people will always need to communicate and people will always need to eat." Staying true to my father's advice I chose to help people communicate and have first hand knowledge of just how recession proof the industry is.
While the world certainly needs ditch diggers and oil rig hands those are not the only choices for guys who don't have a degree. There are many white collar professions that don't require degrees and pay 6 figure incomes as well.
USAFGopherMike
08-02-2013, 12:32
Almost done with my Masters but will likely not use it, military pretty much required it and partially paid for it. When I retire, I joke that I want to drink beer, fish, and travel, but honestly, I think I want to learn all the skills I never did when I was younger like welding or machining.
I love Mike Rowe- he's also a very outspoken conservative as well (plus I love how he narrates Deadliest Catch- one of the few Discovery shows I still watch). And I agree with everything he said, and what many on here have said. To share my story- I tried the college thing, twice. It's not for me. But of course society says, now a days, you're nothing without a 4-year degree, and I'm two classes from an Associate's which I intend to get within the next year or two, but that's about as far as I'll probably go. It makes me sad that people were trying to criticize me because I have the GI Bill, and valuable skills learned from the military, and instead of getting a BA or BS, or even as far as a Masters, I'm choosing instead to use the GI Bill to put myself through a law enforcement academy. College isn't for everyone, and these videos point out perfectly that people are trying to get a corner office, yet now a days we don't even know how to build that corner office.
Some of the smartest guys I know aren't what many would consider "educated" in modern sense- they never went to college, but one owns 4 different companies, each operating in the +, and he rakes in over $400K a year. He learned his skills from the military and trade schools. Like Jim said, some of these folks who spent well over half of their lives in school (if you count grade school) are brilliant, but couldn't tell you the difference between an alternator and a distributor under the hood of a car, or be able to figure out if a bolt on their kids' swing set requires a standard or metric socket. There's two kinds of educated, those who learn in school, and those who learn in the trades- and I don't think we should give one preference over another, they're both capable of the job they are taught to do.
Just a little perspective. I am currently working, but was just offered a job making $27/hr 60hrs/week and $70 per day just to drive to somewhere outside Greeley. Not bad at all.
Just a little perspective. I am currently working, but was just offered a job making $27/hr 60hrs/week and $70 per day just to drive to somewhere outside Greeley. Not bad at all.
Out of curiosity, what sort of job?
Just a little perspective. I am currently working, but was just offered a job making $27/hr 60hrs/week and $70 per day just to drive to somewhere outside Greeley. Not bad at all.
Drug trafficking is very lucrative. :)
Out of curiosity, what sort of job?
Industrial electrical
Industrial electrical
Thanks for the information; it doesn't do me any good, but asking usually doesn't hurt.
Drug trafficking is very lucrative. :)
Mostly because of the risks involved... it's similar to international piracy- except the upfront costs are a lot higher with piracy, ya know, boats, crew, guns... and it's a logistics nightmare. [LOL]
Asha'man
08-03-2013, 00:31
I've got a BS in GIS/land planning, but I was fortunate enough to get an academic full ride so I have no student debt. This is good because I don't use my degree at all; I do commercial temperature controls and make a decent living at it. I watch several of my friends that I grew up with either still in school or recently graduated with mounds of debt and going-nowhere jobs, and I find myself glad that I stumbled into a trade. College educations are becoming increasingly worthless, but there will always be a need for decent tradesmen.
Eggysrun
08-04-2013, 22:15
I'm a semester away from getting my associate arts degree and had been planning on continuing to university for my BA in CRJ so I could make a career out of law enforcement, but now I'm not so sure because I've been hearing even guys with a combat mos military background with college are having a hard time even getting past the interviews at many law enforcement areas in CO because of the high amount of applications and guys with LEO experience and already POST certified. I've been moving to the fence to finishing my A.A and using the rest of my G.I Bill in some sort of trade school. Advice? thoughts?
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 08:34
Everyone wants to be on the government payroll yet we all want smaller government, interesting how that works.
PugnacAutMortem
08-05-2013, 10:47
Everyone wants to be on the government payroll yet we all want smaller government, interesting how that works.
I disagree with what you're saying here, but let me pose this question to you. Would you rather be taking a paycheck from the government or be indebted to it for the largest portion of your adult life (i.e. student loan debt)?
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 12:02
Are those the only options, student loans or government work. There are lots of jobs that can be done without student loans. They would probably be better for your comunity and the country as a whole than becoming another government "worker". Taxpayer dollars pay for enough government non-workers, we dont need any more. People complain about high taxes and having to borrow 70 cent of every dollar our government spends and then they want to get on the payroll. We might as well all sign up to work for the government and they can just give us a weekly allowance, But I guess that would be a little like communism, and we can all see how well that worked out.
PugnacAutMortem
08-05-2013, 12:34
Are those the only options, student loans or government work. There are lots of jobs that can be done without student loans. They would probably be better for your comunity and the country as a whole than becoming another government "worker". Taxpayer dollars pay for enough government non-workers, we dont need any more. People complain about high taxes and having to borrow 70 cent of every dollar our government spends and then they want to get on the payroll. We might as well all sign up to work for the government and they can just give us a weekly allowance, But I guess that would be a little like communism, and we can all see how well that worked out.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding...but are you using "government work" and "working in a trade" interchangably? Because correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't belive working in a trade is the same thing as working for the government. Unless you're talking about unionized trades...but even then that's not "government work".
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 13:25
I dont consider them the same. The options were to get a paycheck from the government or have student loans. If you are getting a paycheck from a government entity then you work for said entity. My point was that a large portion of the workers being paid by the different governments, city, state and federal, dont actually work, and that we dont need more of them to not work and pull a paycheck. I work in a trade and have dont work for a government. Working in a trade does not require student loans. I have student loans and am almost done paying, unlike like many out there who dont bother to pay it back.
I find it interesting how every job opening for the government has tons of people applying but a lot of other jobs cant get filled because they actually require a person to work. The place I work for is looking for laborers, it pays 15 or so an hour. We hire guys, they work for a day and decide it is too hard and dont show up the next day. The best workers we have are from mexico. The americans want that cushy city job where they just sit in their truck all day. I actually worked with a guy whose dad worked for the city. He had a garage built with an extra tall door so his city truck could fit in it. He would check in the morning and go home and nap in his truck in the garage with the door closed. He said he actually worked maybe a single day a week, and nobody cared. Talked to another guy with the highway department who spent every working day for a couple of weeks driving around in a plow truck, no snow. It had been an easy winter so they had a huge fuel budget to use up or they wouldnt be able to ask for a larger one next year. They couldnt move the money to another department, it had to be used on fuel for snow removal.
PugnacAutMortem
08-05-2013, 15:04
I dont consider them the same. The options were to get a paycheck from the government or have student loans. If you are getting a paycheck from a government entity then you work for said entity. My point was that a large portion of the workers being paid by the different governments, city, state and federal, dont actually work, and that we dont need more of them to not work and pull a paycheck. I work in a trade and have dont work for a government. Working in a trade does not require student loans. I have student loans and am almost done paying, unlike like many out there who dont bother to pay it back.
I find it interesting how every job opening for the government has tons of people applying but a lot of other jobs cant get filled because they actually require a person to work. The place I work for is looking for laborers, it pays 15 or so an hour. We hire guys, they work for a day and decide it is too hard and dont show up the next day. The best workers we have are from mexico. The americans want that cushy city job where they just sit in their truck all day. I actually worked with a guy whose dad worked for the city. He had a garage built with an extra tall door so his city truck could fit in it. He would check in the morning and go home and nap in his truck in the garage with the door closed. He said he actually worked maybe a single day a week, and nobody cared. Talked to another guy with the highway department who spent every working day for a couple of weeks driving around in a plow truck, no snow. It had been an easy winter so they had a huge fuel budget to use up or they wouldnt be able to ask for a larger one next year. They couldnt move the money to another department, it had to be used on fuel for snow removal.
Ok then my question now is where did the "everyone wants on the government payroll" comment come from?
Ok then my question now is where did the "everyone wants on the government payroll" comment come from?
Possibly because there is a perception that .gov jobs come benefits (health insurance, pensions, etc.) without waiting half a year or more to qualify for them. I don't know how accurate that perception is; I share it too, with paranoid misgivings. As someone who has been 'blessed' with a lifelong chronic illness, I need a job that will pay enough (in either wages and/or benefits) for me to afford the medical care to keep me functioning. At this point in time, being on the government payroll seems to be the only way to achieve that.
I'm a semester away from getting my associate arts degree and had been planning on continuing to university for my BA in CRJ so I could make a career out of law enforcement, but now I'm not so sure because I've been hearing even guys with a combat mos military background with college are having a hard time even getting past the interviews at many law enforcement areas in CO because of the high amount of applications and guys with LEO experience and already POST certified. I've been moving to the fence to finishing my A.A and using the rest of my G.I Bill in some sort of trade school. Advice? thoughts?
I retired 8/11 after 27 years working as an LEO in NJ. I was fortunate to rise through the ranks and retire as Chief. LE career seeks have a much different road then what I traveled.
First, finish your AA in CJ. Immediately, make a list of LE Agencies you want to work for both in CO and outside the State. Contact each agency and find out exactly what background and education they want for an initial hire. Also find out their hiring expectations for the next 5 years. From this list you'll have an idea if you need to get started in LE. If everyone wants a BA then you'll know what you need. If they only require an AA I wouldn't go further unless the GI bill is paying for it. Whatever you do don't incur educational debt.
If you are interested in a trade look at CNC machine programing. My understanding is that there is not enough programers to fill the positions.
Good luck,
Mike
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 20:28
Ok then my question now is where did the "everyone wants on the government payroll" comment come from?
If given the option what would you take, a government job or private sector job. Most will choose government. You dont live under a rock do you :)
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 20:41
Possibly because there is a perception that .gov jobs come benefits (health insurance, pensions, etc.) without waiting half a year or more to qualify for them. I don't know how accurate that perception is; I share it too, with paranoid misgivings. As someone who has been 'blessed' with a lifelong chronic illness, I need a job that will pay enough (in either wages and/or benefits) for me to afford the medical care to keep me functioning. At this point in time, being on the government payroll seems to be the only way to achieve that.
Just wait till obamacare kicks in and all will be good. We are going to need to find some more taxpayers to pay for all this stuff.
Tinelement
08-05-2013, 20:45
Great thread!
My wife and I have this conversation all the time. Her a grad of CU, me a tradesmans, we are always talking about our kids future. It's usually a pretty interesting conversation!!!
I will always push trade over a bachelor in Business Managment. Always!
dirtrulz
08-05-2013, 20:59
It would kind of have to depend on what your kids end up being interested in. Not everyone is cut out to be in trades. Some are just not good with their hands. I would never try to convince someone not to go to college if they were interested in something that would benefit from it. I would never convince someone to go to college just to say that my kid was college educated. I think some parents think it is a reflection on them if their kids dont go for higher education.
It is amazing how many highly educated college grads are ill prepared for the real world.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.