View Full Version : SBR length with suppressor opinions
muddywings
08-01-2013, 20:34
Ok,
So should have a trust set up soon so now I really need to decide what I want to do here.
Want:
SBR w/ suppressor for HD, SHTF, and because I want one.
Plan:
build it over an 18 month period starting with the SBR paperwork followed a few months later with the suppressor paperwork
Thoughts:
Again, this is more of a "I want one" gun, then any real need, but it will be the home defense gun. I'm leaning towards a simple screw on suppressor as I don't see me taking it on/off a lot. I don't think I want to pin it to get to 16" because I never say never.
Reaching out and being somewhat accurate at the 200 yard range would be satisfactory for my intentions
With that....
Questions:
11.5 or 12.5 barrel??
What suppressor??
I'm leaning towards an 11.5 for compact size and don't want to go lower than that but to be honest, I don't know if adding in inch will drastically improve performance while loosing some in the house maneuverability.
I'm leaning towards a YHM Phantom (looking at Silent Precision website) for cost reasons and because I don't really feel I need to go overboard with it (at this time...haha)
I really don't want to long of a can keeping the CQB concept in mind.
Anybody out there give this noob some advice before he fills out his form in a few weeks for barrel length?
(I'm buying a house at the end of the month so I don't expect to be sending in the paperwork until early september.)
Home defense? Are you going with a 300 BLK round to keep things subsonic?
O2
Great-Kazoo
08-01-2013, 21:58
11.5
this is a 11.5. currently running a AAC 18T A1 style f/hider and (not pictured) M4-2K suppressor.
My suggestion with NFA approval time running 11 months, EASY, submit BOTH at the same time. It's $200 more than your budget might allow however 11 months!! Elephants gestation period is shorter
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/51jim/100_0743.jpg
If you're building it.. Go 300blk.
220g sub loads w/ a suppressor all you hear is the bolt slap.
I've got 5 stamps waiting currently.
I blame triggerhappy. He's a horrible influence
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Mick-Boy
08-01-2013, 23:43
You're not going to see too much difference between an 11.5 and a 12.5 when it comes to maneuverability in a house. Both barrels should easily be able to make hits out to 200.
If you want, I'll give you a shout when I get home in a couple of weeks and we can hit the range so you can mess around with a 11.5 with a Gemtech Trek (thread on) and a 10.5 with a SF 556.212 (QD).
10.5" and phantom is what I am going with. Already sent paperwork. I bought a 10.5" noveske upper, and a yhm B/A phantom. I actually put the brake and suppressor on the upper today, and I personally don't feel that the phantom is too heavy. I plan on doing a 12" spikes bar rail on the 10.5" upper. To me it just looks cool. Most supressor manufactures won't guarantee their supressor under 10.5". Surefire guarantees theirs at 7.5" if I'm not mistaken. Yankee hill is a very good buy for the money IMHO.
Great-Kazoo
08-02-2013, 02:24
11.5 and a halo...
Got one. 1 more 223 can should do it
I think you will be happy. I currently run a YHM QD can on an 11in upper. It is a smidge shorter than my 16in upper with the hinder on it. I also feel the YHM can is a good product for the money. Now for the wait! Check out Colorado Gun Writes for the sbr ingraving. He did a great job on mine.
muddywings
08-02-2013, 08:59
Thanks all,
O2-yeah, went through the thought process on a 300 BLK, but want to keep the ammo similar for my prepper mentality and I haven't gotten into reloading yet. Maybe down the road some day.
Jim-wouldn't you need the suppressor prior to sending the paperwork in? If not, then yeah, I'll probably push both at the same time. But if I do, it will break my $200/month spend plan and I'll have to wait a few months and follow behind.
Mick-yeah, might take you up on that. i've got plenty of time and other things on my plate. It's a long term build/plan so I'm in no rush.
DF and Neutron-thanks for the input.
Other build specs are:
AXTS Weapons lower (have it)
WMD BCG (have it)
BADASS 45 degree selector (have it)
Raptor CH (Have it)
The rest is just on my dream sheet:
VLTOR MUR1 upper
VTAC Alpha Rail not sure what length. edit: actually I might go with a Rainier Arms Evolution as it looks like it would fit over the can per their specs.
BCM 11.5 barrel (for no other reason than I like their 16" Middy I have)
Magpul this, magpul that
Trigger I'm waffelly on- maybe an ALG ACT or a Giessele G2S (I have an SSA on my other and would like the trigger pull to be similar across the board...I guess)
Move my Aimpoint M2 to this gun from my other and upgrade that so I can shoot Tac limited vs Limited with the aimpoint
Suppressor....still looking into that.
Both barrels should easily be able to make hits out to 200.
That's a really big house! :)
O2
Great-Kazoo
08-02-2013, 15:37
That's a really big house! :)
O2
[ROFL2]
ThunderSquirrel
08-07-2013, 11:12
^^
That, except mine is a 10.3, and I'm still waiting on the stamp for the HALO
muddywings
08-07-2013, 19:19
what is the advantage of having a QD suppressor?
This will be my second AR and I was thinking of saving a bit of cash with just going with a thread on such as the base line YHM.
Also, I was thinking about running a pretty long rail such as:
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2563
so it would have a very similar feel to my current 16" middy.
Of course if I ran that long of a rail with the can inside it, taking it on/off is out besides maintenance.
SA Friday
08-07-2013, 20:05
If you're just going to thread mount and leave it on, I say go 10.5" barrel and a Thunder Beast 223A.
DuckTape&550Cord
08-08-2013, 09:51
Just keep in mind the shorter the barrel the higher the pressure going into the can. This usually causes erosion of the blast-baffle. However, there are cans designed to mitigate any erosion. Also, stabilizing the bullet is an issue with certain ammo. This causes the bullet to yaw as it exits and goes into the can = baffle-strike! I had a baffle strike in my can on a 10.5" barrel. This and seeing some erosion convinced me to use the can on my other 16" upper. Your results may vary.
what is the advantage of having a QD suppressor?
.
Unlike an SBR, a suppressor is the item with the serial number and can be moved between weapons. If you get a 30 cal suppressor that uses QD mounts, you can move that between mutilpe rifles in .308/300BLK/6.8/6.5/5,56 etc. For example, I have a 6.8 SPC SPEC II upper for hunting and a 5.56 upper for my standard AR/SHTF rifle. I bought a 7.62 YHM Phantom LT QD suppressor and can use it between the two by simply unscrewing it from the QD mount and putting it on the other. From all the reviews and YouTube videos I have seen, there appears to be a reasonably minor DB increase in using a larger can on a smaller caliber (usually 1-3 DB depending on the size/type of can) and a little increase in weight using a larger can but well worth it. Remember, you have to keep a copy of the stamped Form 4 with the suppressor when going between rifles but other than that, all good.
Other benefits to a QD are... that you can run a muzzle brake instead of a flash hinder to help slow baffle erosion and with a qd can it is more likely to not come loose during shooting. You rocksett the muzzle device on the rifle. The muzzle device will have some sort of ratcheting mechanism that will keep the can tight. As far as bullet stabilization goes you should always check to make sure the bullets are not key holing before you use your can on it. I have not had any stabilization issues with my 11in upper. Some 1:9 twist barrels seem to be closer to 1:8 where as some can be closer to 1:10. Just check your ammo in your gun before you shoot with the can and keep the can tight if you go with a thread on model and you shouldn't have a problem with baffle strikes. Another thing to remember is you are going to have this can for along time. Do it right, do it once, don't be cheep!
There is no "Quick Detach" suppressor. I guess you could try....but it's gonna leave a mark. I like the HALO because I can move it to any of my rifles with a peel washer on the brake. I didn't want to loose my BC 2.0 on my middy and I run a Vltor on my 11.5.
Mick-Boy
08-29-2013, 20:46
Got home a week ago and so I took these photos. 10.5 in LWRC with a Surefire 556-212 and a 11.5 BCM with a Gemtech Trek as compared to a 14.5in BCM (with extended A2 making it 16.1in). Like the rocket surgeon I can be at times I forgot that the 11in rail on the 11.5in upper would overlap the shoulder of the barrel a bit. I had to cut the rail back about 1/2in to get the can to mount correctly.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/malonpm/Lightfighter/IMG_0044_zps77bfeb35.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/malonpm/Lightfighter/IMG_0045_zps404a0c00.jpg
The rail actually runs to the edge of the sight and rail panel. I just cut the sides back a bit to clear the can.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l305/malonpm/Lightfighter/IMG_0046_zpscf5c70c1.jpg
muddywings
09-03-2013, 10:08
^^^ thanks. Finally got in here after my move last weekend and my epic landlord drama.
now I don't really know how to proceed with all this NFA trust/ATF drama.
DeusExMachina
09-03-2013, 10:39
I have a 10.5" and a Mini4. It's about the same length as a 14.5 with a pinned flash hider. It's perfect. However, I put the muzzle brake mount on (for sacrificial blast baffle) and the gun is basically unusable without the can.
If I was going to do it again, I think I'd buy a 762SDN-6 and use it with 300BLK as well as 5.56
DeusExMachina
09-03-2013, 10:41
Got home a week ago and so I took these photos. 10.5 in LWRC with a Surefire 556-212 and a 11.5 BCM with a Gemtech Trek as compared to a 14.5in BCM (with extended A2 making it 16.1in). Like the rocket surgeon I can be at times I forgot that the 11in rail on the 11.5in upper would overlap the shoulder of the barrel a bit. I had to cut the rail back about 1/2in to get the can to mount correctly.
How do you like that can cover on the Surefire?
muddywings
09-03-2013, 11:02
I have a 10.5" and a Mini4. It's about the same length as a 14.5 with a pinned flash hider. It's perfect. However, I put the muzzle brake mount on (for sacrificial blast baffle) and the gun is basically unusable without the can.
If I was going to do it again, I think I'd buy a 762SDN-6 and use it with 300BLK as well as 5.56
why is that? I was also thinking about get a 7.62 can in case I got a remington 700 down the road but curious on your thoughts?
why is that? I was also thinking about get a 7.62 can in case I got a remington 700 down the road but curious on your thoughts?
7.62 can will work on everything smaller.. Obviously not as quiet with a 5.56 going through a 7.62 can, but it still helps.
DeusExMachina
09-03-2013, 13:33
7.62 can will work on everything smaller.. Obviously not as quiet with a 5.56 going through a 7.62 can, but it still helps.
A lot of the tests I saw (granted, done by AAC) puts the SDN-6 in the same sound reduction as the M4-1000, both with 5.56. That's pretty awesome, to me.
I went with the Mini4 because they both fit the same line of reasoning with 5.56...you'll never have it 'quiet' since any ammo worth a damn will be going supersonic. I would also say that no 5.56 can is "hearing safe", meaning you will still want to use some sort of ear protection for sustained use if you value your hearing. That meant getting a multi-purpose can or a short can were my top qualifications in a suppressor for this caliber.
Why did I get the Mini4? Because MGT was having a phenomenal sale right around my birthday, and they didn't have any SDN-6s in stock. :) I was the first one to walk in the door after a big snow storm and I'll be damned if I wasn't buying any can. I don't regret the purchase at all, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd get a multipurpose can.
Mick-Boy
09-03-2013, 14:35
How do you like that can cover on the Surefire?
Meh. I bought it to check out. We set one of fire at work (my buddy coresponded with the owner about it since you're not supposed to be able to do that).
Pros- It keeps me from having to repaint a can every time I burn the paint off and saves me from burning my self if I accidentally touch the can after a string of fire.
Cons- I've read that can covers are bad for high volumes of fire (something about keeping the inside of the can hot for extended period of time) so I take it off if I'm going to be shooting a lot.
For $35 it's not bad but it's certainly not a must have piece of gear.
DeusExMachina
09-03-2013, 15:32
Meh. I bought it to check out. We set one of fire at work (my buddy coresponded with the owner about it since you're not supposed to be able to do that).
Pros- It keeps me from having to repaint a can every time I burn the paint off and saves me from burning my self if I accidentally touch the can after a string of fire.
Cons- I've read that can covers are bad for high volumes of fire (something about keeping the inside of the can hot for extended period of time) so I take it off if I'm going to be shooting a lot.
For $35 it's not bad but it's certainly not a must have piece of gear.
I've been debating getting one. Have you used other ones? They all seem to cook for semi-auto use.
Mick-Boy
09-03-2013, 18:03
I've been debating getting one. Have you used other ones? They all seem to cook for semi-auto use.
I haven't used any other models. The reason we tried these is because the manufacturer was claiming they were rated for full auto. A buddy on another team set one on fire after three magazines at the cyclic rate.
One of the snipers at work has a cover from another company but the brand escapes me. It's on a precision rifle through so it's not seeing a high round count at all.
For a little while I was just half-ass stitching a piece of tan cloth that I could slip off in a hurry if I needed to. That worked fine for camouflage but obviously had zero impact on heat.
islandermyk
09-03-2013, 19:03
AAC 762 SDN6 is what I got on the Krink/"Lil Bitch" (7 or 8 inch barrel 5.45x39) and on the GAP (in .308 23 in barrel) . Here are some vids if it helps out at all with the discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CgKZOkQ_Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARro-2tMM-4
That can cover has it's pros and cons.
The pros..
you don't have to worry about it when it gets wet[Coffee]
It's silicone... it won't stain it and you could wash it just by throwing it in water.
You'd be able to handle a reasonably hot can with the wrap on.
.. and they're cheap
The Cons:
Mirage... lots of it will go through on a hot ass day.
It slips while your shooting, and I can't seem to figure out how to keep it there while wanting to be able to slide the cover toward the barrel to cool the can.
.. and they're cheap, but you do get a lot of bang for your buck.
AAC SDN6 sucks a little ass... well... I just hate the tiny wobble I get when it's on the Lil Bitch. I had to polish off some material on the GAP brakeout/muzzle device to keep that wobble to a minimum. Their finish suck ass too.. but I don't really care.. I sand blasted mine.. and it looks pretty nice [Coffee]
I have no problems shooting it with the Krink being an SBR shorter than a 10 inch barrel. It actually works really well. I've noticed a huge back pressure feeling... and the cycle rate on my bump fires are pretty darn high with that can on. Out in the open I don't even use hearing protection, but when there's a roof over my head it does get pretty loud.
Another thing I hate about it is the QD design... with the wobble, how difficult it can become to pull it off cause of the carbon build up, and cleaning the brake... something to think about.
Next "can" I get (If I ever decide to get another one cause of the damn wait) would be a direct thread on.... and something that is magnum or even full-auto rated.... something else to consider.
[Beer]
muddywings
09-03-2013, 19:34
AAC 762 SDN6 is what I got on the Krink/"Lil Bitch" (7 or 8 inch barrel 5.45x39) and on the GAP (in .308 23 in barrel) . Here are some vids if it helps out at all with the discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CgKZOkQ_Eg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARro-2tMM-4
That can cover has it's pros and cons.
The pros..
you don't have to worry about it when it gets wet[Coffee]
It's silicone... it won't stain it and you could wash it just by throwing it in water.
You'd be able to handle a reasonably hot can with the wrap on.
.. and they're cheap
The Cons:
Mirage... lots of it will go through on a hot ass day.
It slips while your shooting, and I can't seem to figure out how to keep it there while wanting to be able to slide the cover toward the barrel to cool the can.
.. and they're cheap, but you do get a lot of bang for your buck.
AAC SDN6 sucks a little ass... well... I just hate the tiny wobble I get when it's on the Lil Bitch. I had to polish off some material on the GAP brakeout/muzzle device to keep that wobble to a minimum. Their finish suck ass too.. but I don't really care.. I sand blasted mine.. and it looks pretty nice [Coffee]
I have no problems shooting it with the Krink being an SBR shorter than a 10 inch barrel. It actually works really well. I've noticed a huge back pressure feeling... and the cycle rate on my bump fires are pretty darn high with that can on. Out in the open I don't even use hearing protection, but when there's a roof over my head it does get pretty loud.
Another thing I hate about it is the QD design... with the wobble, how difficult it can become to pull it off cause of the carbon build up, and cleaning the brake... something to think about.
Next "can" I get (If I ever decide to get another one cause of the damn wait) would be a direct thread on.... and something that is magnum or even full-auto rated.... something else to consider.
[Beer]
Mucho gracious.
A rem700 in 308 is the next on the SHTF build list (and my wife's top request). I think I found what I'm looking for!!!! (until I change my mind tmrw AM).
muddywings
09-04-2013, 05:25
Mucho gracious.
A rem700 in 308 is the next on the SHTF build list (and my wife's top request). I think I found what I'm looking for!!!! (until I change my mind tmrw AM).
Ahhh shit....changed my mind.....
islandermyk
09-04-2013, 15:46
Ahhh shit....changed my mind.....
[ROFL1] you called it [Beer]
There is no "Quick Detach" suppressor..
Huh? Yankee Hill, AAC and various others are gonna be REAL surprised when they find out! I am assuming you are just using some other defintion of "Quick Detach" but in general, the vendors use QD to mean you attach a permanent flash hider or break on the weapon and you can then screw the QD suppressor to that mount and it can be unscrewed by hand. So in effect, the suppressor is not designed to be threaded onto the barrel. I have a QD mount on three different weapons (5.5.6, 6.8 and 300 BLK) and then I can move the .30 cal can back and forth between whichever weapon I take out. Welll that is what I WILL be doing once the ATF approves my form 4 and I can actually take possession of said suppressor but you get the picture. And before you ask, yes YHM has taken into account that a .30 suppressor can screw onto a 5.56 QD mount but the smaller 5.56 suppressor cannot screw onto a 7.62 sized QD mount. I assume AAC and others are the same way but I dont know that for sure. Bottom line, Quick Disconnect or Quick Detach are very much real.
DeusExMachina
10-16-2013, 14:58
Huh? Yankee Hill, AAC and various others are gonna be REAL surprised when they find out! I am assuming you are just using some other defintion of "Quick Detach" but in general, the vendors use QD to mean you attach a permanent flash hider or break on the weapon and you can then screw the QD suppressor to that mount and it can be unscrewed by hand. So in effect, the suppressor is not designed to be threaded onto the barrel. I have a QD mount on three different weapons (5.5.6, 6.8 and 300 BLK) and then I can move the .30 cal can back and forth between whichever weapon I take out. Welll that is what I WILL be doing once the ATF approves my form 4 and I can actually take possession of said suppressor but you get the picture. And before you ask, yes YHM has taken into account that a .30 suppressor can screw onto a 5.56 QD mount but the smaller 5.56 suppressor cannot screw onto a 7.62 sized QD mount. I assume AAC and others are the same way but I dont know that for sure. Bottom line, Quick Disconnect or Quick Detach are very much real.
Why did you ignore the rest of his post? You can go ahead and try, but you're going to need to visit the burn ward afterwards.
They are Quick Attach if anything, or Quick Detach When Cold (or cold enough to remove with gloves).
Their primary purpose is quick deployment or to share among several platforms with varying barrel threading while preserving a muzzle device when unsuppressed.
Why did you ignore the rest of his post? You can go ahead and try, but you're going to need to visit the burn ward afterwards.
They are Quick Attach if anything, or Quick Detach When Cold (or cold enough to remove with gloves).
Their primary purpose is quick deployment or to share among several platforms with varying barrel threading while preserving a muzzle device when unsuppressed.
I guess if the original post was supposed to be a funny, it got by me. This is all semantics anyways and I went with what the vendors call it -Quick Detach (not Quick Attach) - thier words not mine but if someone wants an apology fine... "I am sorry I was too dense to get the joke" On the positive side, YHM included a "heat glove" (kinda like an oven mit) with my Phantom LT to keep from permanently imprinting the suppressor image on my palm :-)
i have a few different length set ups but have never shot it under 11.5" just because that is what most suppressor manufacturers recommend. does anyone know what kind of general pain in the ass you are looking at if something happens to a baffle? can it be repaired fairly easily by the company or are we talking that serial number is dead and you have to get a new one, ie, new approval process as well?
i have a 7.5" id love to try it on but am too afraid to take the risk.
DeusExMachina
10-22-2013, 21:16
A short barrel won't outright damage a suppressor but will wear it faster. You're looking at a new can in most cases.
AAC recommends their brake mount with short barrels as it acts as a sacrificial blast baffle.
i have a few different length set ups but have never shot it under 11.5" just because that is what most suppressor manufacturers recommend. does anyone know what kind of general pain in the ass you are looking at if something happens to a baffle? can it be repaired fairly easily by the company or are we talking that serial number is dead and you have to get a new one, ie, new approval process as well?
i have a 7.5" id love to try it on but am too afraid to take the risk.
From what I have read, most will still support short barrel with the 300 BLK as it was optimized for a 9" barrel. 5.56 has much more of a muzzle blast because of the powder that needs to be used.
If you get a 30 cal suppressor that uses QD mounts, you can move that between mutilpe rifles in .308/300BLK/6.8/6.5/5,56 etc.
You can do the same thing with a screw-on can, you simply need muzzles threaded the same (I use my .30 can on calibers down to 5.56 and it works just fine).
From what I have read, most will still support short barrel with the 300 BLK as it was optimized for a 9" barrel. 5.56 has much more of a muzzle blast because of the powder that needs to be used.
i agree which is why i haven't done it. all the powder is burned up in 300 blackout in an 8.5-9 inch barrel, but mine is 223. will a suppressor inevitably wear out at some point or if you adequately clean it will it basically last forever? honestly i haven't researched it a whole lot. i always assumed if it was taken care of it would be fine. but i assume suppressors can't be "repaired" you just have to get a new one?
Great-Kazoo
10-27-2013, 07:38
i agree which is why i haven't done it. all the powder is burned up in 300 blackout in an 8.5-9 inch barrel, but mine is 223. will a suppressor inevitably wear out at some point or if you adequately clean it will it basically last forever? honestly i haven't researched it a whole lot. i always assumed if it was taken care of it would be fine. but i assume suppressors can't be "repaired" you just have to get a new one?
Most mfg can do a baffle replacement. Especially when a can becomes the victim of baffle strikes. I was quoted $200 for one can i was offered that suffered multiple strikes from a full auto gone beserk. Between the baffle replacement, and transfer, for another $150 i could buy a new one.
Most mfg can do a baffle replacement. Especially when a can becomes the victim of baffle strikes. I was quoted $200 for one can i was offered that suffered multiple strikes from a full auto gone beserk. Between the baffle replacement, and transfer, for another $150 i could buy a new one.
so in order to do a baffle replacement you have to redo the transfer fee? i appreciate the info, just want to make sure i understand it correctly.
If just the baffles are replaced then a transfer fee is not needed. If the can or the part that has the serial number on it is damaged then you will need a new can. ATF doesn't allow the transfer of an old serial number to a new can any more.
If just the baffles are replaced then a transfer fee is not needed. If the can or the part that has the serial number on it is damaged then you will need a new can. ATF doesn't allow the transfer of an old serial number to a new can any more.
what a surprise. atf is definitely sympathetic.
Unlike an SBR, a suppressor is the item with the serial number and can be moved between weapons. If you get a 30 cal suppressor that uses QD mounts, you can move that between mutilpe rifles in .308/300BLK/6.8/6.5/5,56 etc. For example, I have a 6.8 SPC SPEC II upper for hunting and a 5.56 upper for my standard AR/SHTF rifle. I bought a 7.62 YHM Phantom LT QD suppressor and can use it between the two by simply unscrewing it from the QD mount and putting it on the other. From all the reviews and YouTube videos I have seen, there appears to be a reasonably minor DB increase in using a larger can on a smaller caliber (usually 1-3 DB depending on the size/type of can) and a little increase in weight using a larger can but well worth it. Remember, you have to keep a copy of the stamped Form 4 with the suppressor when going between rifles but other than that, all good.
Update - I still have the 6.8 SPC and an M4 length 5.56 but have since gone the Form 1 route and built a 10.5" 300 BLK SBR. I got my tax stamp back so I have the YHM LT can and use between them. Ultra quiet on the 300 and very nice on the shorter M4. The LT can is between the Phantom SS and Titanium in weight and small than both. Optimized for 300 and 6.8. Well worth a look AND, YHM gives you one QD mount with the suppressor. None of the other vendors do that I don't think.
what a surprise. atf is definitely sympathetic.
Remember, this is brought to you by the same organization that lists a suppressor as a firearm to begin with. Nuff said.
muddywings
08-12-2014, 14:30
I guess since I started this thread I'll finish it with:
http://i.imgur.com/PnTjKEA.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/P5vvW18.jpg?1
11.5 with a gemtech Trek
I need a keymod light mount but what I have now will have to do.
HoneyBadger
08-12-2014, 19:22
Looks great! A rail that covers up all or part of a suppressor is so sexy!
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