C & R Transfer/ Sale Question

[hawk1]

I did some research but still feel like I missed something... So here's my inquiry: I have an old Yugo SKS that I'd like to sell. Since is it older than 50 years, is it subject to the new laws? Can I legally sell it as is (no mags) to another party, without doing the background check?

[jreifsch80]

I think the only guns not affected by the new laws are pre 1898 stuff since they're technically not firearms. If something is a true curio and relic then maybe a sale could be made to a person with a curio and relic ffl but I'm not sure how the law deals with transferring to ffl's

[Big E3]

The BATF web sight says all guns at least 50 years old automatically become a Curio & Relic even if they are not specifically on any BATF list. Only guns otherwise regulated such as short barreled rifles would not qualify. I have an old Russian SKS that is over fifty years old and it is considered a C&R. The background check (BGC) laws specifically exclude C&R so no BGC required. I believe the only gray area is to prove they are at least 50 years old, not sure on Yugo's but the Russian's have a year of manufacture on them. Even the gun show BGC laws have the same language that exclude C&R, but shows like Tanner have a policy in place that they still require a BGC for all transactions.

[spqrzilla]

What do you mean "no mags" ? The SKS had a ten round magazine. Many Yugo SKS' are not 50 years old. Especially the M59/66 model. However it does appear on the ATF list of curio and relic arms.

CRS 18-12-112(6)(a) specifies that the section does not apply to "A TRANSFER OF AN ANTIQUE FIREARM, AS DEFINED IN 18 U.S.C.
SEC. 921(a) (16), AS AMENDED, OR A CURIO OR RELIC, AS DEFINED IN 27CFR 478.11, AS AMENDED;"

Note that the ATF has ruled that a military surplus firearm to be considered as a curio and relic must be unaltered from its military configuration. So if you've hung a plastic stock on it, or made other alterations, it may not be C&R (its unclear what the effect of an ATF ruling on the CFR as incorporated into Colorado state law) and its transfer would require a background check.

[spqrzilla]

I think the only guns not affected by the new laws are pre 1898 stuff since they're technically not firearms.
Not correct, see the language of the bill.

[hawk1]

What do you mean "no mags" ? .

The rifle does not have any mags with it... I have 4- 20 round mags but I'm assuming that I cannot sell them with it.

i believe that this rifle HAS NOT BEEN MODIFIED (other than having the original magazine removed) since its manufacturing. So, minus the 10 round mag, I don't think much/ anything has been changed on it.

How can I check how old it is?

[jerrymrc]

Take a good look here. http://www.ar-15.co/threads/109009-Background-checks-and-trading?p=1208555

[bryjcom]

From reading the language it appears that C&R firearms are not required to go through a background check.

So an M1 Garand can be transferred privately, with or with out a C&R license, and no BGC required

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont/590C29B4C02AFC2F87257A8E0073C303?Open&file=1229_01.pdf

(6)
THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY TO
:
26(a)
A TRANSFER OF AN ANTIQUE FIREARM, AS DEFINED IN 18 U.S.C. 27 HB13-1229 -4-SEC. 921(a) (16),
AS AMENDED
,

OR A CURIO OR RELIC, AS DEFINED IN 27 CFR478.11, AS AMENDED




They really did write these laws poorly.

[jreifsch80]

Ah so anyone have a cz82 they want to sell me? ;) hehehehee

[Great-Kazoo]

Ah so anyone have a cz82 they want to sell me? ;) hehehehee

;)

[spqrzilla]

The rifle does not have any mags with it... I have 4- 20 round mags but I'm assuming that I cannot sell them with it.

i believe that this rifle HAS NOT BEEN MODIFIED (other than having the original magazine removed) since its manufacturing. So, minus the 10 round mag, I don't think much/ anything has been changed on it.

How can I check how old it is?

Four 20 round magazines? That's sounding like a modified SKS to me.

[hawk1]

[QUOTE=spqrzilla;1267471]Four 20 round magazines? That's sounding like a modified SKS to me.[/QUOT

I purchased them separate. Would detaching the original magazine count as modifying it? What if I had to put a new 10 rounder on it? Would that be modifying it?

[wctriumph]

Go get a 10 round mag, put it on and sell the dang gun as a C&R or through a FFL, anyway that makes you comfortable. Why does anyone need to know you put an original 10 round fixed mag on it anyway? You can find them at any large gun show and they are legal to buy and sell. As far as the 20 rounders, that is not anyone else's business except yours.

[spqrzilla]

The exact boundaries of modification are not clear. Replacing the 10 round magazine would be prudent especially since you probably can't sell the 20 round magazines.

[jerrymrc]

The second you change the 10 to 20 rd mag then it becomes a modern imported gun subject to 922r. People that build Fal's and AK have been dealing with this for years. The siaga guys as well.

I had to educate my boss when he showed up with his yugo with a 20 rd mag. As with many he did not get it until I showed him the law. he was still miffed that just adding a larger mag caused all those issues.

I explained that I knew of nobody that had been charged with a 922r as a stand alone charge but it is convenient for them to add on when they want you for something else.

We have had more than a few members withdraw there ads and a couple get banned after claiming that we "need to stay out of their business" in the TP after asking about US parts.