Being a Good Student: Selecting and attending training

[Mick-Boy]

Someone posted something on another forum that sparked an idea for a thread. With his permission I’ve taken his post, cannibalized it, and expanded a few areas with additional thoughts. I’d like to address some things that make a good student and see what you gentlemen have to add.


Most of us have attended training of some kind. Whether it is as a member of the military, an LEO, or a civilian there are some things we can do to maximize our time and money when we’re seeking firearms training.

Before Training:

1) Start by figuring out what you need to work on. - Most people, myself included, like to spend time on the things we do well. Take a hard look at what your needs are and where you’re weak. Seek training in that area. Working on what you’re good at may make you feel cool but it won’t make you better.

2) Do your research. - Find out as much information about the class and the individual teaching it as you can. Identify what, in their background, gives them expertise in what they are teaching. Look up their websites, forums they frequent, social media sites, and read AAR's from their classes. They are by far the best information source out there.

3) Prepare your gear. – Look at the gear list and make sure your stuff is squared away. This should be common sense but I’ll say it anyway. Fresh batteries, loaded mags, a zeroed and lubed rifle, etc. are all things that can and should be set up before Training Day 1 so that you aren’t detracting from training.

At Training:

1) Pay attention. – Again, I feel like this should be self-explanatory, but I’ve been in training environments where students (who paid to be there) are grab-assing. Stow that noise and listen to the instructor. You sought them out to get their perspective. Listen to it.

2) Ask the question. – If you don’t understand something, stick your paw in the air and ask. If you didn’t get it there’s probably someone else missing the info as well.

3) Execute the drills. – There are no keys to the kingdom. Try new ways to solve a problem. That’s what you’re there for. If you like your old way better, switch back after class. Debating the merits of something like the high ready vs. the low ready takes away from everyone’s training time. If there is something tactically or technically wrong with what is being taught, handle it off line and let the instructor make an adjustment. If there is a safety issue, sound off. The life you save may be your own.

4) Be respectful. - Not just to the instructor but to the other students as well. You never know who you're on the line next to. Quiet professionals often tend to be just that. A piece of advice I received from a salty individual I used to work with was to treat every class like a job interview.

5) Don't be a loner. - Classes are a great place to network and meet like minded folks. I think I've picked up about as much sitting around listening to BS sessions at classes as I have from formal instruction. You get some seasoned pros sitting around with guns and gear and there will be an amazing amount of knowledge dropped.

After Training:

1) Conduct and write out an AAR / Hotwash. - This is where we get our monies worth out of the class. Ruthlessly examine your performance. Identify areas for improvement and figure out how to train them. We're not going to be a rockstar at every class. Sometimes you're going to dick the dog. That's OK. That's how we learn. We should strive to maximize the learning value of these mistakes and also pass on the lessons learned. Many of us that seek out this training serve in a high risk profession. We should not endanger ourselves further having to relearn something that someone else paid for in blood.




I've had the opportunity in my life to work with and spent time around some genuinely hard dudes. Guys that have killed more people than cancer and look like an African dictator in their dress uniform.

One of the things that these men have taught me is that ego detracts from learning. Cruising into a room with a chip on your shoulder and trying to compare dick size with every type A personality in the joint is a sure way to be branded an asshole and probable way to land a pretty good beating at some point. Most of the guys with real experience don't have much left to prove.

If the instructor can't handle people asking questions, go somewhere else.

If the instructor spends all their time talking about how badass they are, go somewhere else.

If the instructor claims to have the way as opposed to a way, go somewhere else.

At the end of the day, there are no keys to the kingdom. There are little pieces to the puzzle and multiple ways to solve most problems.

Sites like M4C and Lightfighter have pretty good areas with AARs from classes and that can be a good place to start looking.

[cmailliard]

Very nice, Mick. Many nails hit on the head with this.

As an instructor it is nice when participants are engaged, paying attention, and asking questions. In my own courses when students pay it is very rarely an issue. When I teach for the college or other places where participants are forced into training by their company it is more of a problem. I am doing a HazMat refresher today for a governmental agency here in Denver and it is like pulling teeth to get questions or any sense of enthusiasm out of the participants.

As a participant I always show the instructor the respect I would want. I am glad you spoke about instructors with ego's. I hate these type of instructors. I already know I have a little dick so can we just move on to the training, mmmm kay, thanks.

[stoner01]

Two things I will add.
1. Do not let frustrations travel down leash. Yes it is a K9 adage but it is something I always take to training. If you have issues that are affecting you negatively, excuse yourself. Sit a relay out. Take 5 minutes and clear your head. Going into training with a poor mindset detracts from that training not only for you, but for those around you.
2. Try to always end on a positive note. It can do wonders.

[Mick-Boy]

1. Do not let frustrations travel down leash. Yes it is a K9 adage but it is something I always take to training. If you have issues that are affecting you negatively, excuse yourself. Sit a relay out. Take 5 minutes and clear your head. Going into training with a poor mindset detracts from that training not only for you, but for those around you.


That is a terrific point and one we (I) often forget is an option. Especially when I'm a paying student.

A few years ago dan512 and I were at a classup in MT. T-day 5 rolled around and my wheels just came off. I was shooting like shit, my manipulations were inefficient and a couple of hardware problems popped up (piston on my LWRC broke, flashlight with fresh batteries died). I was freaking pissed. I even made the comment after one evolution that if I was at the range at home I'd just pack it in and train another day instead of throwing good ammo after bad. Yet it never occurred to me to pull myself off the line except to fix the hardware problems... It was definitely a personal take-away from that class.

[MarkCO]

Excellent, especially:


If the instructor can't handle people asking questions, go somewhere else.

If the instructor spends all their time talking about how badass they are, go somewhere else.

If the instructor claims to have the way as opposed to a way, go somewhere else.

At the end of the day, there are no keys to the kingdom. There are little pieces to the puzzle and multiple ways to solve most problems.

A few things to add...take notes and when you do your AAR, go through them and type them out. This helps reinforce them and gets rid of the short hand. The next day or so, distill the notes down to 3 or 4 areas to focus on. I put a one page sheet on my safe and a shortened version in my e-notes on the cell. This helps you keep focused on the skills/drills you need to work on. If you have any questions going through this, contact the instructor and get support.

Break out those skills/drills you need to work on into areas that must be worked on at the range and those that can be worked on off the range and schedule time to turn the weaknesses into strengths.

[<MADDOG>]

Good post Mick, thanks!

[KestrelBike]

This is an awesome thread. Thanks all for your input!

[CHA-LEE]

I have something to add. Its good to let students know that everyone has a limited amount of focused attention span and if you dedicate too much of your attention to any one single thing most of everything else will start to suffer. I like to use the following analogy "Everyone has about $10 worth of attention span to spend on getting things done. If you spend $8 of attention span on trying to do something new or different, then that only leaves $2 to get everything else done which is not enough so something else will suffer while trying something new". Its good to set this expectation up front so the students don't get frustrated with other skills degrading as they try something new or different.

[SuperiorDG]

Two things I've picked up and it ties in with OP.

1) I have enough mags loaded for the day's training and a few extras for those drills that require certain numbers of rounds. Having these mags allows me to hydrate, snack, and walk around and look at everybody's setup and talk to them or just listen in on other conversations. Also not being rushed is a big help with my learning.

2) I use both electronic ear pro and surefire ear plugs, at the same time. I can still hear the instructions, but at the end of the day I feel fresher for some reason.

[JohnTRourke]

Things I"ve learned that nobody seems to do at training classes.

BRING BACKUPS. I KNOW you have more than one gun, bring a spare. If it goes down (and you learned something), just go get the other one and keep going. Mags, ammo, sights, whatever, bring spares.
Bring Water. dehydration wipes out more people than most anything (instructors, ring in here).
You're paying for the program (whatever it is), DO THE PROGRAM. (you alluded to this in the OP). Try it their way, learn the new way. Maybe it's better, maybe it's not, but it's another tool in the toolbox.

You can pay tuition with instruction fees or you can pay tuition in ammo and time, but you are going to pay tuition.

[Irving]

It's good to read through this again and it should be brought up yearly. This message about training transcends just gun stuff. This kind of mind-set helps me at work as well. I don't know about you guys, but smaller class sizes and more people I don't know helps keep me from grab assing my training time away.

[Sticks]

I'd like to add to the list;

If you are about to attend your first training class, take the time to read AARs that others have posted, and you will gain an insight to what you are in for and what you do and do not need, and placement of your gear - you'll find out that that canteen and trauma kit on the back of your vest or belt may not be the best place. M4Carbine.net has an excellent thread on gear selection. This is a training class, not going into combat. KISS is an acronym to live by.

A huge amount of importance of showing up with a zeroed rifle is paramount. Some instructors may have the time set aside to do this at the beginning of the class, but if not, you are either going to be holding up the class or fighting yourself trying to do the drills and get your rifle zeroed at the same time and will miss a lot of info coming down the pipe.

Check and recheck your gear and supplies a few days before the class. Having an equipment failure halfway through the class because you missed the torn seam in your loadout, or spaced bringing lube, or a tool is costing you more than you can calculate. This is not a simple day or two at the range where if something goes down you can pack it in for the day. If you have spares (parts, carriers, gear) bring it.

Keep a "Boo Boo" kit on your person. Bandaids, Athletic tape, something simple. Cut your finger/hand on something and being able to address it then and there is better than the 150 yard run back to your vehicle to deal with it.

Start TD1 with a regimen of Advil or Aspirin. You may not be sore now, but after lunch, if not at the end of the day, you will be.

Avoid high round count training classes. Anymore than 600 rounds in 1 day/8+ hour class is a waste of ammo. If you can not hold yourself accountable for every shot fired as to where the hit was, you are not gaining anything but a lighter ammo box to take home and are more than likely going to start installing some bad habits.

Take notes on the drills you are being taught and go through those drills as often as you can. If you take a day to go to the range, run some of those drills, and not the ones you "are the best at", or "like the most". You likely paid a minor fortune to attend that training class in tuition and ammo - don't let those lessons die.

Know your limits. If you are nailing the X on every shot, then you are not going fast enough. If you are doing a shotgun pattern, slow down.

If you were taught to do a thing one way by instructor A last year, and now instructor B is teaching you to do the same thing another way, do what instructor B is teaching you. Choose what works best for you on your own time. You may find that option B is better, or both have their unique applications for certain circumstances. If a procedure is uncomfortable and awkward, deal with it. Running a drill (Vickers Barricade) with a 2.5-10x scope on a Mk12 both strong and support side (especially support side prone with your chin in the dirt) is awkward - you'll find a way to shoot in the positions you are told to shoot in.

[275RLTW]

With spring coming up and people starting to think about their training options, I thought I'd resurrect this thread as a reminder. I'll add a quote from MSG (ret.) Paul Howe as he is referenced here often and I was reminded about the airsoft motto today about tactical or cool or some bullshit...

From Paul Howe's Leadership and Training for the Fight while discussing training pitfalls (p.141)

"One type of instructor is the trainer who has been to all the schools and their walls are covered by certificates, but have never kicked in a door on an actual mission. Their problem here is the schoolbook answer, versus the reality, tried and tested answer. As a friend once said, an instructor who has done only homework with no field work will make a questionable instructor. School work must be accompanied by fieldwork."


As mentioned earlier, do your research and find the right person with the right experience for the training you require.

[Mick-Boy]

A post that Todd Green made on Pistol-training.com (http://pistol-training.com/archives/8946) yesterday brought another point to mind.

There are some people in the training industry that act like middle school girls with the way they gossip. Don't get sucked into a "clique" of trainers.

If the instructor has the background and ability to teach what you want to learn, don't worry about whether or not the last instructor you trained with likes the guy or not.

[Gravy Sandwich]

If the instructor claims to have the way as opposed to a way, go somewhere else.



This one is a biggie for me, and it goes both ways for instructor and student. A good student will drill whatever technique is presented, then decide later if it has merit. Don't waste everyone else's time debating the instructor about why you do what you do. Nobody cares. Don't be the guy doing Karate in a Muay Thai class.

I've trained with Cha Lee, and he's spot on about attention span. One thing he does that few others do is give handouts to students that are full of relevant information and references to books to read later. He gives a full breakdown of the characteristics that make a good shooter, and makes everyone read it before class. I like this approach because it sets the tone for class, and students seem less inclined to fire constant questions throughout the session.

[CactusSam]

Someone posted something on another forum that sparked an idea for a thread. With his permission I’ve taken his post, cannibalized it, and expanded a few areas with additional thoughts. I’d like to address some things that make a good student and see what you gentlemen have to add.


Most of us have attended training of some kind. Whether it is as a member of the military, an LEO, or a civilian there are some things we can do to maximize our time and money when we’re seeking firearms training.

Before Training:

1) Start by figuring out what you need to work on. - Most people, myself included, like to spend time on the things we do well. Take a hard look at what your needs are and where you’re weak. Seek training in that area. Working on what you’re good at may make you feel cool but it won’t make you better.

2) Do your research. - Find out as much information about the class and the individual teaching it as you can. Identify what, in their background, gives them expertise in what they are teaching. Look up their websites, forums they frequent, social media sites, and read AAR's from their classes. They are by far the best information source out there.

3) Prepare your gear. – Look at the gear list and make sure your stuff is squared away. This should be common sense but I’ll say it anyway. Fresh batteries, loaded mags, a zeroed and lubed rifle, etc. are all things that can and should be set up before Training Day 1 so that you aren’t detracting from training.

At Training:

1) Pay attention. – Again, I feel like this should be self-explanatory, but I’ve been in training environments where students (who paid to be there) are grab-assing. Stow that noise and listen to the instructor. You sought them out to get their perspective. Listen to it.

2) Ask the question. – If you don’t understand something, stick your paw in the air and ask. If you didn’t get it there’s probably someone else missing the info as well.

3) Execute the drills. – There are no keys to the kingdom. Try new ways to solve a problem. That’s what you’re there for. If you like your old way better, switch back after class. Debating the merits of something like the high ready vs. the low ready takes away from everyone’s training time. If there is something tactically or technically wrong with what is being taught, handle it off line and let the instructor make an adjustment. If there is a safety issue, sound off. The life you save may be your own.

4) Be respectful. - Not just to the instructor but to the other students as well. You never know who you're on the line next to. Quiet professionals often tend to be just that. A piece of advice I received from a salty individual I used to work with was to treat every class like a job interview.

5) Don't be a loner. - Classes are a great place to network and meet like minded folks. I think I've picked up about as much sitting around listening to BS sessions at classes as I have from formal instruction. You get some seasoned pros sitting around with guns and gear and there will be an amazing amount of knowledge dropped.

After Training:

1) Conduct and write out an AAR / Hotwash. - This is where we get our monies worth out of the class. Ruthlessly examine your performance. Identify areas for improvement and figure out how to train them. We're not going to be a rockstar at every class. Sometimes you're going to dick the dog. That's OK. That's how we learn. We should strive to maximize the learning value of these mistakes and also pass on the lessons learned. Many of us that seek out this training serve in a high risk profession. We should not endanger ourselves further having to relearn something that someone else paid for in blood.




I've had the opportunity in my life to work with and spent time around some genuinely hard dudes. Guys that have killed more people than cancer and look like an African dictator in their dress uniform.

One of the things that these men have taught me is that ego detracts from learning. Cruising into a room with a chip on your shoulder and trying to compare dick size with every type A personality in the joint is a sure way to be branded an asshole and probable way to land a pretty good beating at some point. Most of the guys with real experience don't have much left to prove.

If the instructor can't handle people asking questions, go somewhere else.

If the instructor spends all their time talking about how badass they are, go somewhere else.

If the instructor claims to have the way as opposed to a way, go somewhere else.

At the end of the day, there are no keys to the kingdom. There are little pieces to the puzzle and multiple ways to solve most problems.

Sites like M4C and Lightfighter have pretty good areas with AARs from classes and that can be a good place to start looking.

You mind if I do a little of my own cannibalizing and reposting of my own?

[Mick-Boy]

Go nuts. I wouldn't put it out there otherwise.

[Mick-Boy]

If you don't mind, I'd love to see what you come up with when you're done.

[CactusSam]

If you don't mind, I'd love to see what you come up with when you're done.

Found here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/boulder-guns-beach-enterprises-llc/getting-the-most-out-of-firearms-training/615258358553192

[TheBelly]

No dice, Brother!

[275RLTW]

There's been great discussion about selecting courses in this thread so I thought I would discuss selecting an instructor:



Selecting an Instructor

When selecting an instructor for you firearms or tactics training, there are many different things to consider. Various instructors have different skills and experience that they bring to the classroom, or range, and understanding how to interpret this from biographies is critical. I will discuss some of the current trends, key words, or nomenclature so to speak of what to look for in an instructor and what their bio means.

Let’s start with selecting the right instructor. Just as specific auto repairs require specific tools, so do skills. Teaching requires more than just memorizing and regurgitating what someone else has said. It requires experience. Being able to teach something well means you have to have personal experience about the subject to help convey the message to the students. It also requires you know the material inside and out from actually doing it. You should have messed it up somewhere in your experiences and learned from it. Almost anyone can read a book on metaphysics, for example, and spend an hour or so describing what they learned from it to someone else. We do this every day through normal dialogue. Teaching requires more than that. As we progress into higher risk skill sets in shooting/fighting/underwater basket weaving, the need for more experience becomes critical to ensure safety of the persons involved. I will break down the common types of persons we see as firearms instructors today and what their experience translates into. Most instructors fall into one, or more, of these categories based upon their experience.

1) The lifetime shooter: This person is someone who has probably grown up with firearms and was introduced to them at an early age. Safety is generally the primary concern with them as it is often how every shooting opportunity started for them. These instructors are very personable for the most part, often considered “good ‘ol boys” and some of the friendliest instructors you’ll meet. They have patience to work with boy scouts, Appleseed shoots, 4-H and the like as they enjoy introducing the youth to shooting just as someone did for them. The lifetime shooter is a phenomenal asset to the shooting community as they are at every gun show, gun counter, or firearm related sporting event, are the first ones to identify and approach new shooters, and welcome them with open arms to the fun. The lifetime shooter usually (based upon experience) teaches basic NRA courses, general firearm orientation and maintenance, hunter education, various youth programs, and CCW courses.

2) The new enthusiast: This instructor was most likely introduced to the shooting community within the last few years and has jumped in with both feet. They are usually at every competition (local, IPSC, IDPA, 3 gun, etc…)or fun shoot/league, are doing well at them and have improved by leaps and bounds in the last few years. New gear and gadgets are interesting to them and they are usually looking for something new to buy to make them better. This instructor is also very important to the shooting community. The new enthusiast has a passion for the sport that needs to be passed on to other new shooter like a flame passed from torch to torch. They have very relevant and recent experience in being new and can easily relate those experiences to another new shooter. However, this type of instructor is can also be very dangerous if they overestimate their experience. They decided they like helping others, after showing all their friends their newfound religion, and decided to take a NRA instructor course or a course from a well-known instructor. Their new “certificate” justified to them that they can teach every tactic, technique, or procedure they have seen. Shooters with a few pistol competitions or after watching a popular DVD are “instructing” high risk skills or tactics that they do not fully understand nor have the experience for. Some have even taken a course or two in these skills and have a basic grasp on the subject but lack the experience necessary to effectively and safely teach them. These instructors usually teach basic NRA courses, some firearms manipulation courses (“tactical/advanced/level 2 pistol/carbine,” etc…), CCW courses, and the like.

3) The competitor: this instructor has been in the gaming aspect of shooting for some time. They understand their weaknesses and have put in the time to overcome them. The competitor has also spent countless hours working on their own skills, often being their own coach, criticizing their technique and testing new methods in a relentless effort to get more efficient at their skill. These instructors are usually higher class shooters, having achieved a rank of Master or Grand Master. They have been through trigger control issues and overcome them, shot in the rain and snow, been disqualified from a match or two from mistakes, and have seen or tried every trick out there. The competitor is an excellent instructor with regards to experience in firearms manipulation, economy of motion, and the science behind shooting paper targets. Although they may not be the most charismatic or skilled teacher, their ability to put rounds on target is unquestioned and often unrivaled.

4) The Police Officer: This instructor is, or was a law enforcement officer at some point and may have spent some time behind a trigger. These instructors will have varied experience to contribute based upon their assignments. Obviously someone who spent a career on a SWAT team or as a department’s firearm instructor will have more trigger time than the average patrolman or detective. While not the most skilled on every aspect of firearm manipulation, it is one of many skills that had to be learned during their time on the streets. The skills these instructors are well experienced in are legal implications and considerations (CCW applications), threat identification, escalation and the overlooked de-escalation of force, and everyday carry techniques to name a few. This is by no means minimalizing the instruction of the Police Officer. They have usually attended various schools and spent countless hours applying these skills. These instructors have a wealth of knowledge that is not in books or videos learned from every minute spent assessing people and putting themselves in tense situations on a daily basis. While some may and often do have a good foundation on higher risk tactics such as team movement, CQB/entry concepts, and integration of unarmed/armed fighting techniques they are again just some of the skills they had to work on during their limited allotted training time.

4)The Veteran: The veteran is the instructor that spent some time in the military and wished to pass some of those skills on to others. This group is very diverse, ranging from rear echelon service members who spend most of their career behind a desk, to retirees with years of service and combat/infantry/special operations experience. Many of these instructors fall into the other categories as well however what sets them apart is their specialized experience. The experience gained during combat cannot be ignored with regards to instruction. While a 25 yr old grunt with several years in infantry and a few combat deployments may not be as “seasoned” as a 20 yr SWAT professional, that grunt has most likely done more live room entries, spent more time behind the trigger, and performed more medical and tactical skills under the extreme stress of gunfire than most law enforcement officers will see in a lifetime. The veteran group of instructors has the real world experience and lessons learned from them to impart to their students. This knowledge is invaluable and is sometimes difficult to fully comprehend. However the little tips contained within their teachings about the unseen factors of shooting (mindset, combat stressors, pre attack indicators, etc…) are worth their weight in gold and often lifesaving bits of information. These instructors generally excel at teaching firearms manipulation (they have done it repeatedly under stress), CCW, tactics, and mindset classes.

Again, remember that most instructors usually fall into one or more of the above groups and are not limited to the descriptions above. There are some very talented instructors out there who can easily fit into each of the categories and conversely shooters with tremendous skill and experience who can’t effectively teach.


When reading an instructors bio, there are some things to look out for and should serve as red flags for further investigation. Every instructor should have a brief bio readily available. If not, then they are trying to hide something or have not put forth the basic time and effort to sell themselves (this laziness will carry over into their class as well). The bio should focus on skills/experience/awards relevant to the skills being taught. A veteran’s Bronze Star doesn’t mean a thing to teaching shooting skills, just as attending a long list of other people’s courses does not give experience in tactics. While not definitive, here are a few of the terms or phrases that should prompt further review and thought:

-“I can just adjust the class to meet the shooter’s needs.” This is an indicator that there is no set lesson plan and the instructor is “winging it.” While they may have some valuable knowledge to pass on, the class will most likely be unorganized with lots of down time and informal stories from the instructor. Courses should be set and lesson plans established. This is not to say that a course cannot be flexible, however it must have standards. If there is an area that a student is unprepared for then that is not the right class for the student. A good instructor should recognize this and make appropriate course suggestions to the student and remedy the issue soonest, especially if safety is a concern.

-“tactical” skills- Tactics and skills are different. Skills are things like being able to draw from concealment efficiently, maintain proper trigger control during multiple shot strings, etc… Tactics are the application of those skills in order to achieve a certain goal such as shooting while moving to cover, team entries, combat medical care, etc... In the shooting community, most courses focus on skills as the application of them are considered worst case scenarios. We tend to practice the things that are quantifiable and measureable and give us goals for improvement. Tactics are mostly conceptual. There are an infinite number of options/scenarios/conditions that affect what tactics are used. To use tactics, skills must have been previously established and refined so that they may be employed correctly as needed in the given situation. Any instructor who has to add “tactical” to their skills course is covering up their lack of material. The word “tactical” has become a fluff word in current shooting instruction and is often used incorrectly.

-“My experience is classified (and the sort):” We see this claim more and more now with the increasing number of veteran group instructors. Let me squash this now. If someone has to say “it’s classified” then they are lying. Anyone who has done something that cannot be discussed will not mention it and WILL NOT highlight that; rather they will seem to hide it. No military experience is “super-secret.” All military courses are listed on the service member’s DD-214 when they get out, even their unit is listed. Yes, even CAG (Delta)/SF/SEALs have that information on their DD-214. The vast majority of those persons from higher skilled military units will give specifics about their experience so that proper vetting can be done. A SEAL will indicate what team they were on, SF guys will indicate what group and courses they attended (SFAUIC, SOTIC, etc…), medical instructors will have the medical certs readily available. You can’t tout experience or skills that you cannot describe or verify.

-no formal training listed: If an instructor has not formal schools, courses, and relies on just their personal experience for their lessons is dangerous. The skills being taught are their interpretation of what is correct or efficient. While there may be some great information being presented, the skills are untested, unproven, and unknown. Now you don’t need to choose the instructor with the longest resume to receive good instruction, however a teacher must be a student in that discipline first.

-over embellishment of their bios: This has been occurring more and more lately as well as the instructor pool has getting crowded within the last decade. These instructors try to sell their courses on fancy wording, exaggerating their skills, or listing skills that in no way pertain to the instruction offered. For example, a shooting instructor who teaches basic courses and claims to teach tactics (especially with no experience in those tactics) is dangerous. They may be a great person and great instructor but they are out of their lane and accidents waiting to happen. Also in this area is the instructor that lists everything they have done in order to make themselves look “cool” or a bad-ass. They will list things like “explosive breacher,” “nationally ranked competitor,” or their 1st place science project in middle school to their bio for a CCW class. If it doesn’t apply directly to the skills being taught then they are trying to dazzle you with their resume so you overlook other deficiencies. We don’t post on our resume the time at McDonalds as a kid when applying for a corporate position, do we? If someone does have that impressive of a resume, they are often teaching those specific skills and tactics to a specific client. CAG/NSW/SOF guys generally don’t teach basic NRA or CCW courses. They can and I have seen the exception however it is usually handled by less experienced instructors than them. It doesn’t matter how many Bin Laden raids you’ve been on, it has nothing to do with concealed carry applications or local laws.

-lack of time utilizing that skill: there are some instructors who have a great ability to translate their experiences into something that sounds great on paper. They have a plethora of skills listed in their resume but very little time with each of them. They may have been this, then that, then a bad-ass over here, then all operator over here but only did so for short periods of time. People that are good at something stick with it. Someone who spent a few weeks as “PSD for my unit commander” wasn’t the bad-ass they think they are; there was most likely no other place for them. Someone who has been to a few 3-gun competitions shouldn’t be your source for instruction on stage management. There is basically not enough experience to pass on.

-“the best:” This is common on many forms of media put out by some instructors. In order to make themselves sound better than they are, they claim to be “the best,” “premier,” “#1,” etc… on their website or fliers. There is no best instructor. Each has their own skills, experiences, and techniques to bring to the classroom. Students all learn differently and learn at different rates. Making claims like these are ploys, not selling points. Statements like that should be immediate red flags that there is not much skill or experience to support the claims.

-no formal teaching instruction: Teaching is a skill. It is a perishable skill as well. Some people are very charismatic and entertaining but have no idea how to effectively teach. As with any skill, it has to be practiced and developed. Instructors should be continuously trying to improve themselves through professional development in not only the skills they are teaching, but their teaching and delivery skills as well. Beware the instructor who thinks that they are an “instructor” because they took a class once, or stayed at a Holiday Inn last night… Egos and the inability to recognize one’s own faults or deficiencies are serious training issues and this attitude can lead to safety concerns. A good instructor is very critical of themselves, always striving to improve in every area, and always looking to make things safer and better for the student.


When looking for training, knowing what instructor to choose is just as important as what course to take. A “lower” skills class with a good instructor is money better spent than an “advanced” class with someone who lacks the experience to safely and effectively teach the material. Do your research. With the spread of information on the internet, there are numerous ways to verify experience and get first hand reviews about every instructor out there. Before dropping you hard earned money on someone, make sure you are getting what you want. Talk with the instructor beforehand, ask questions, and be thorough in your research. With the multitude of instructors out there, all with something valuable to bring, spend a few minutes to ensure you get the best out of your training.

-SC

[Limited GM]

Nice post Scott.

[Mick-Boy]

Good write up coloccw!

I'd like to add a couple of thoughts (caveats and addendums if you will).




4)The Veteran: The veteran is the instructor that spent some time in the military and wished to pass some of those skills on to others. This group is very diverse, ranging from rear echelon service members who spend most of their career behind a desk, to retirees with years of service and combat/infantry/special operations experience. Many of these instructors fall into the other categories as well however what sets them apart is their specialized experience. The experience gained during combat cannot be ignored with regards to instruction. While a 25 yr old grunt with several years in infantry and a few combat deployments may not be as “seasoned” as a 20 yr SWAT professional, that grunt has most likely done more live room entries, spent more time behind the trigger, and performed more medical and tactical skills under the extreme stress of gunfire than most law enforcement officers will see in a lifetime. The veteran group of instructors has the real world experience and lessons learned from them to impart to their students. This knowledge is invaluable and is sometimes difficult to fully comprehend. However the little tips contained within their teachings about the unseen factors of shooting (mindset, combat stressors, pre attack indicators, etc…) are worth their weight in gold and often lifesaving bits of information. These instructors generally excel at teaching firearms manipulation (they have done it repeatedly under stress), CCW, tactics, and mindset classes.

As coloccw mentioned, not all military service (or deployment time) is created equal. MOS (military speak for job), unit, and the dates the person served can have a significant impact on what they were taught, what they did, and what was emphasized.

Some things will be similar across the board for any true professional who served. Mindset, warrior philosophy, physical fitness (because that shit matters in a fight) etc. Some will be different.

Service in the military is not a guarantee of applicable experience. An example off the top of my head;

- When I was in the USMC (01-05) we trained in MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain). Everything on two legs got the business when we went into a building. Target ID was never a factor in our training scenarios. Obviously this had to change as the realities of fighting in built up areas in Iraq and Afghanistan started to sink in. The tactics the Marine Corps was teaching at that time have very little place in the world of a responsible armed citizen.

All that to say, make sure you understand what your instructors background is and what it means. A deployment or two doesn't make an SME in all things tacitcal.




When looking for training, knowing what instructor to choose is just as important as what course to take. A “lower” skills class with a good instructor is money better spent than an “advanced” class with someone who lacks the experience to safely and effectively teach the material. Do your research. With the spread of information on the internet, there are numerous ways to verify experience and get first hand reviews about every instructor out there. Before dropping you hard earned money on someone, make sure you are getting what you want. Talk with the instructor beforehand, ask questions, and be thorough in your research. With the multitude of instructors out there, all with something valuable to bring, spend a few minutes to ensure you get the best out of your training.


This is a huge truth. I've taken a couple of "advanced" classes that were a waste of time and money. I've also taken "basic" classes that I would take once a month if I could just because of the quality of instruction.

[275RLTW]

This topic is coming up in more places. It seems that more and more are taking advantage of those who are seeking out training. Also, students are not doing their research.

http://www.recoilweb.com/poseurs-who-teach-48245.html?__federated=1

Within just the last 24 hours I have been contacted by 3 different reliable sources about poseurs – in fairness, alleged poseurs – involved in the firearms training industry and the manufacture of firearms. Such fraud isn’t confined to any one region (and probably not to any one industry). These allegations have been made against companies located from Indiana to Florida. Certainly this sort of CV-padding is nothing new, but it does prompt us to remind you – trainees beware. Before you spend your hard earned money and potentially put yourself at risk with an instructor, perform some due diligence. Remember claims can range from grandiose to mean and still be an embellishment or a falsehood. Awesome web pages, slick YouTube channels and great war stories make for excellent marketing, but they certainly don’t guarantee quality of instruction. Remember the well being of you and your family may be dependent on the instruction you receive (this is why we encourage training with multiple teachers). This isn’t just physical well being. It could be financial or even criminal. Don’t take that sort of thing lightly.
For the instructors part, if you are someone claiming to be something you’re not (or just a more tacticool version of what you really were), wind your neck in. Be proud of what you actually did or righteously achieved. There are some very fine instructors out there who’ve had little or no experience on the mean streets or outside the wire. Think of the second and third order effects of your misinformation and misdirection – someone may actually use the skills you’re teaching to put someone down. When that shooting goes to court, they’re going to call that person’s trainers to the stand. In today’s litigious society, do you really want to be the one outed as a fraud even if the shoot was righteous? You can be teaching good tactics and proper skills and still wind up on the wrong side of a lawsuit or even criminal action, and that’s not beginning to touch on the implications of a bad shoot.
This doesn’t even touch on the issue of honor or your ethics of course. Be careful. You may never be up on the stand in something as contentious as the Zimmerman trial, but someone is eventually going to open the lid on your bucket of crap and you’re going to wind up wearing it. When you draw the ire of a retired CSM from a JSOC-affiliated unit or have lots of legitimate knuckle-draggers taking legal action to obtain your real records, your days are numbered. Do the right thing and mitigate the damage now. If you’re providing quality instruction and you’re sufficiently contrite you might even stay in business.
Note – the following video is satire. It’s here to make a not-so-subtle reference to the instruction you could be getting if you’re not careful. The feature image is from Sgt. Bilko (Imagine Entertainment and Universal Pictures). It is not meant to imply any misrepresentation on the part of those actors and is intended to be symbolic.
Dynamic Pie Concepts is awesome. Sgt. Bilko was a funny movie. Poseurs are neither.
Poseur (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poseur). poh-zur; a person who attempts to impress others by assuming or affecting amanner, degree of elegance,
sentiment, etc., other than his or hertrue one


Read more: http://www.recoilweb.com/poseurs-who-teach-48245.html#ixzz39ws9wTlM

[TheBelly]

I know a few that fall into the 'every little thing ends up on the resume' and ALSO fall into the 'I've been to the class, yet I've never done this in real life'. To me, this is a very dangerous combination. Folks on this board have helped me to vet potential instructors. I'm very grateful that they've chimed in.


One of the key things to me (that was stated by coloccw above) is that the instructor should have instruction in how to teach. Instruction in how to teach a particular discipline is something that should have meaning. If your instructor hasn't taken any sort of refresher training or decertification in the last little bit, please be wary.

[stodg73]

I just printed off most of the posts to read and digest. Thanks to everyone for posting.

[MarkCO]

This seems relevant...

http://handguncombatives.blogspot.com/2016/02/what-hell-my-thoughts-on-current.html

[Chief_of_Scouts]

This seems relevant...

http://handguncombatives.blogspot.com/2016/02/what-hell-my-thoughts-on-current.html

Excellent read MarkCO. I read, watch and listen more than I say anything (hence, the low post count). Too many opinions out there. The instructor pool has been polluted and this explains some of the reasons why.

[BigBear]

How do you know when you are ready for a "class" versus just a one on one "hang" with someone better than you?

Not sure why I'm asking as I suck as a shooter, but it's still fun, HA! ... but it popped into my head. I've always been interested in classes but they always seemed "go, go, go" and I'm the type of guy that needs to take a second and think through things.

[MarkCO]

Someone "better than you" may not have proper fundamentals, technique, thought process, tactics, etc., nor the ability to teach. Some things can not be learned by observation alone. Have to weigh the Pros and Cons against what you want.

[Irving]

I feel the same way Big Bear. A member once saw me operate the charge handle on my new AR and asked if I was left handed. If I'm not even pulling the charge handle correctly, then should I be signing up for a class where people want to shoot 500 rounds a day while running and doing fancy reloading maneuvers?

[Great-Kazoo]

I feel the same way Big Bear. A member once saw me operate the charge handle on my new AR and asked if I was left handed. If I'm not even pulling the charge handle correctly, then should I be signing up for a class where people want to shoot 500 rounds a day while running and doing fancy reloading maneuvers?

Comfort Level. Do you need a "tactical" class, or should you take a basic course? What are your expectations and desire to know / learn from said class? You want the high speed low drag "Operator" or Hey i'd like to become more proficient with my firearm class.

There's a reason people offer "Introductory" and Advanced classes. It's also why most, if not all classes require one of their basic classes. Or show you've attended a basic class, prior to moving up the ladder.

[Irving]

Agreed.

[MarkCO]

There are two kinds of people who need a basic class. Those who think they do, and those who REALLY do. Funny thing is that many who think they do really do not and those who think they do not REALLY do. :)

[BigBear]

There are two kinds of people who need a basic class. Those who think they do, and those who REALLY do. Funny thing is that many who think they do really do not and those who think they do not REALLY do. :)

I think I struggle with this. I know I'm not a super secret, shoot the wings off a gnat at a 1K yrds agent. But I also know how (I think) to hold my friggin' firearm and make sure it's safe. I sometimes think that a "beginners" class will be basic handling 101 when I read the abstract/synopsis of the course. I don't plan on being able to do 2 second reload drills, while my gun is field-stripped and buried in dirt, while standing on one leg blindfolded, from a malfunction. Yes, I'm sure that is useful information, but not something I need at this point in my life. Vice versa I don't want to be in the class where the instructor is like, "This is a gun....", "This is how you hold/load a gun....." type stuff....

Hope that makes sense. Bottom line is I guess I just need to do some due diligence and really research the classes as previously mentioned. But, it's always the time (and scared-ness) factor.

[YammyMonkey]

I can't count the number of people who have come to a class with the "been shooting all my life" or "I was a (mil/cop/other random breed of awesome) I know all this" attitudes who were completely fouled up.