View Full Version : Terms & Conditions for posting for sale items??
Colorado Osprey
02-07-2009, 16:37
I saw a WTS post and agree with someone elses comment.
There are some that join to only post an item for sale.
I have no problem with this, as they have something to sell.
BUT, if it is posted here and they have nothing else to contribute to the site other than trying to price gouge because of certain market conditions I think maybe I have a problem with that.
Requiring a minimum number of posts before posting something for sale is good form.
Now if somebody is clearing house, needs cash and has priced items at a benificial price to members to move quickly is something different.
I guess what I am trying to say is, new memebers that post only to the classifieds to try and sell an item at retail or higher price, that their sale posts should be removed, in my humble opinion.
Anybody else feel this way, or is it just me?
I agree[Beer]
why do some people look for a way to rip others off???
ofcourse, we don't have to buy from them.....
I saw a WTS post and agree with someone elses comment.
There are some that join to only post an item for sale.
I have no problem with this, as they have something to sell.
BUT, if it is posted here and they have nothing else to contribute to the site other than trying to price gouge because of certain market conditions I think maybe I have a problem with that.
Requiring a minimum number of posts before posting something for sale is good form.
I agree with it.
Now if somebody is clearing house, needs cash and has priced items at a benificial price to members to move quickly is something different.
I guess what I am trying to say is, new memebers that post only to the classifieds to try and sell an item at retail or higher price, that their sale posts should be removed, in my humble opinion.
Anybody else feel this way, or is it just me?
OK, but who's gonna decide if it's overpriced or not?
Colorado Osprey
02-07-2009, 19:34
It's pretty easy to look up a price as we all do on gunbroker, gunsamerica or auctionarms dot com or where-ever.
If they are asking full value or over as well as being a 1st or 2nd post ever....
My point is we all know values.. and we all know deals.
If someone is truely trying to turn something and it is value priced, it will be quickly snatched as well as an asset to the site.
I think we all understand..........
For those 1st posts on newbies and it goes in the classifieds maybe the Moderator can scan over it before allowing it to see if it is true deal or whether it is mostly just spam.
If a person has say 25 posts and is active in the forum (not build your post count type posts), can be allowed to post items at market value or what ever they want.
This is just me spilling..... I don't make any rules around here.
you are forgetting it is capitalism. Sure, most newbs that come in here and post something for sale and ask waay too much will hear about it and the item will not sell. Big deal. you don't have to buy it, you don't even have to look at it if you want to.
But everyone has the right to sell something for whatever price they want.
If someone came on here and posted $25 Pmags you probably wouldn't like that either, but then you go to the gunshow and some places sell them for that, you go on gunbroker and they are going for more than that.
these are very weird times right now but to limit someone or ban them from selling is out of the question. If the market will bear it, and they can get it, why not?
you are forgetting it is capitalism. Sure, most newbs that come in here and post something for sale and ask waay too much will hear about it and the item will not sell. Big deal. you don't have to buy it, you don't even have to look at it if you want to.
But everyone has the right to sell something for whatever price they want.
If someone came on here and posted $25 Pmags you probably wouldn't like that either, but then you go to the gunshow and some places sell them for that, you go on gunbroker and they are going for more than that.
these are very weird times right now but to limit someone or ban them from selling is out of the question. If the market will bear it, and they can get it, why not?
EVIL CAPITALIST
It's pretty simple really:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11113
2.a.ix.1. Reading an ad is not an obligation to purchase any item.
HunterCO
02-07-2009, 20:54
This is my take on it and nothing more.
If you don't like the price move on...if the asking price is insane don't worry it will end up at the bottom of the for sale forum in a quick hurry.
In fact it will go to the bottom faster if people don't post in the add flaming the person for asking such a ludicrous price.
That being said if somebody wishes to pay the insane asking price so be it that is what America is all about. Not to mention as was brought up already who decides what is a fair asking price???
Basic economics state that you can sell anything for any price that people are willing to pay.
If your not willing to pay the asking price then don't buy it.
theGinsue
02-07-2009, 21:19
The only real issue I have is folks posting stuff for sale (usually implied FTF transaction) that don't include their location - heck, even "Western Slope", "N.E. CO", or "Metro Denver" is better than nothing.
I guess I don't get it why folks don't just add their location into their profile and be done with it, but ces' la vie' - I know the policies of the site are pretty clear on having a location included in your posts based on the following:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11113
2. a. viii. When asking for a face to face transaction and/or local sale/trade, include your location.
Just my 2 cents.
HunterCO
02-07-2009, 22:09
The only real issue I have is folks posting stuff for sale (usually implied FTF transaction) that don't include their location - heck, even "Western Slope", "N.E. CO", or "Metro Denver" is better than nothing.
I guess I don't get it why folks don't just add their location into their profile and be done with it, but ces' la vie' - I know the policies of the site are pretty clear on having a location included in your posts based on the following:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11113
2. a. viii. When asking for a face to face transaction and/or local sale/trade, include your location.
Just my 2 cents.
We had a debate about this very problem and this was the conclusion. If they are selling something they can ship no big deal. If it has to be FTF then you must provide a location.
If any of you run accross a post FTF with no location let one of the mods know and it will be deleted.
NOo pics that's what I have a problem with. 'coz as soon as it's not new I WANT TO SEE THE PICS even if it's in "like new condition" I still wanna see the pic JMHO.
I think a more accurate point was that there was no additional contribution to the community as a whole. While we'll see the uninitiated and some of the initiated pricing their wares above what most deem fair, that's capitalism.
I think just posting in the for sale areas doesn't add much value to the community. Perhaps a mandatory intro in the new members area or a lower min post count (5-ish?) or both. That would help us also know a bit more about the sellers and get more folks contributing.
I have to agree with the OP..... I too think there should be a min post count in order to post in the "for sale" forum.
I can only speak for myself on this but I do feel a little hesitant conducting business with someone that has 1-2 posts only in the "for sale" threads. It goes both ways, I would feel awkward signing up just to post something for sale. Thats just my 2-cents.
We've all had to start from 0, but most have established themselves and have built up that trust in the intraweb community.
I've been on a local forum for cars and you had to literally have someone vouch for you before you could go into certain areas of the board. That meant you had to meet people from the board....go to meets, that sorta thing.
Again, just my opinion......
-J
HunterCO
02-08-2009, 01:29
I think a more accurate point was that there was no additional contribution to the community as a whole. While we'll see the uninitiated and some of the initiated pricing their wares above what most deem fair, that's capitalism.
I think just posting in the for sale areas doesn't add much value to the community. Perhaps a mandatory intro in the new members area or a lower min post count (5-ish?) or both. That would help us also know a bit more about the sellers and get more folks contributing.
BadShot while I respect you and think your a great guy take lightfighter and run with it.
I will slit my own throat before I act like the anal retentive pricks they are on that site. So much for them getting more members to contribute.
A minimum post count to post in the for sale boards seems fair, IMO...I know I get knots in my stomach when I see someone selling a big ticket item and the first reply is joe-bob from who-knows-where-cause-his-profile-is-empty and has a 1 post count now just posted he wants to buy it...
HunterCO
02-08-2009, 04:42
A minimum post count to post in the for sale boards seems fair, IMO...I know I get knots in my stomach when I see someone selling a big ticket item and the first reply is joe-bob from who-knows-where-cause-his-profile-is-empty and has a 1 post count now just posted he wants to buy it...
As apposed to joe-bob from who-knows-where-cause-his-profile-is-empty and has 30000000000000 post count now just posted he wants to buy it....
My advice is if you want the world to be perfect contact sarah brady or another liberal of your choice.
Great-Kazoo
02-08-2009, 07:43
HOW ABOUT this.
FS:XXXXX item is listed. the ad gets say 3-4 replies
THEN the seller does not reply???? can that ad be locked or deleted, After a mod trys to contact the OP to see if they have even noticed there are replies??
i've send pm/em's to sellers and the ad is still there 3-4 days later w/out it being listed as sold OR no one has heard back from the OP WTF's with that.
Colorado Osprey
02-08-2009, 08:05
It's pretty simple really:
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11113
Quote:
2.a.ix.1. Reading an ad is not an obligation to purchase any item.
Thanks for the hand slap.. LOL
I also agree with the capitalism.
Have you also noticed that those who have responded to this thread in general have high post counts and "contribute" to this forum?
I think the minimum post idea has merit, but I also agree with HunterCO that these posts will quickly fall to the bottom to never be seen again.. no worries.
read the terms and conditions. everyone has received a copy so there is no excuse now. There are provisions to deal with the situations mentioned here.
we will do our best to enforce the rules we posted.
let us know if we missed something, we will help!
remember, don't feed the trolls [Muaha]
they will show who they really are and go away on their own.
BadShot while I respect you and think your a great guy take lightfighter and run with it.
I will slit my own throat before I act like the anal retentive pricks they are on that site. So much for them getting more members to contribute.
It's not so much that it's a LF.NET thing.. that is a far different site with a far different audience. They are pricks everywhere, but there is value to be had in taking what works well at other sites and applying them to fit a need. In the IT world we call that adoption of best practices.
It is very obvious that this is a concern with a portion of the active membership, but the "management" does not see this as an issue. Personally, I've never had an issue buying from here or LF.NET. There are other sites, not to be named, where there have been problems and no possibility of remediation through the site itself.
I can see why our "management" here does not see the need to add regulation. But it is a consideration we all hopefully keep in mind when purchasing from the For Sale area only posters.
It's not so much that it's a LF.NET thing.. that is a far different site with a far different audience. They are pricks everywhere, but there is value to be had in taking what works well at other sites and applying them to fit a need. In the IT world we call that adoption of best practices.
It is very obvious that this is a concern with a portion of the active membership, but the "management" does not see this as an issue. Personally, I've never had an issue buying from here or LF.NET. There are other sites, not to be named, where there have been problems and no possibility of remediation through the site itself.
I can see why our "management" here does not see the need to add regulation. But it is a consideration we all hopefully keep in mind when purchasing from the For Sale area only posters.
LF is a mob of very prideful war mongers. Pride goes before the fall.
WillysWagon
02-08-2009, 10:14
One way to look at it:
If someone first posts on this site to sell something, they just may like the experience they had here and become a regular shoot attending member. Those that 'only' come here to sell, may not end up selling anything and won't bother to come back. I'd rather not turn away people that have the capability to become outstanding memebers, of which we have many.
YMMV,
Kyle
gnihcraes
02-08-2009, 11:09
I'm one of these people. Been lurking on the forums for a while, I don't have much to add in most conversations. I'm not one to brag, not one to offer opinions, not one with Oh so great "knowledge" about firearms to contribute a whole lot. Although I need to move some firearms from an estate so I can help fund some more firearm purchases. I read the terms and conditions, hopefully following them with locations, phone numbers and pictures. I appreciate the responses I've received. If my prices are out of line, let me know, I'm a reasonable person. I checked several websites and history of the guns before posting them, heck I don't want to look like an idiot. Not trying to gouge anyone.
My 2 cents. Thanks for the forums. I didn't know they existed until I purchased and AR15 and started browsing the web for information.
(now I've increased my post count too!)
Kelly - Lakewood.
mightymouse
02-08-2009, 12:57
Since I'm the one that chided the seller, I suppose I should weigh in.
I'm not saying that anyone has to show up and be an expert on the AR platform, or wage war as a professional or anything else. But heck, even posting a 'Hi I'm a new guy, wanted to say hi' or 'hey I'd like to go to the next shoot' is a huge way to break the ice and be friendly.
As for the quote:
LF is a mob of very prideful war mongers. Pride goes before the fall.
You went over to LF, basically posted a lot of off topic messages that were rants (as you are wont to do) and they banned you. At least tell the whole story.
GhostRider
02-08-2009, 13:06
Hi guys
Just a short note of apology to all. I have two blackpowder rifles that I have been listing for a friend and not knowing any thing about blackpowder weapons put the price that he was asking. With some some VERY much needed info from Colorado Osprey in a PM, I have talked to my friend and will be changing the posts today. I have also been one who has watched this clubs page for a while now and have not had to much to say out loud. I have had some great trading deals with a few of you, bought and sold a couple of guns and have met some really fine stand up people. I have nothing but good things to say about this web sight. Thanks for putting up with us newbies and hope to meet more of you soon. Thanks again to the Colorado Osprey.
Gary
Since I'm the one that chided the seller, I suppose I should weigh in.
I'm not saying that anyone has to show up and be an expert on the AR platform, or wage war as a professional or anything else. But heck, even posting a 'Hi I'm a new guy, wanted to say hi' or 'hey I'd like to go to the next shoot' is a huge way to break the ice and be friendly.
Kelly, I saw your post in that thread and honestly I cheered you on...I'm getting sick of people who join and their first post is selling beat to crap weapons at markup anywhere between 80% and 300% their actual value...
I also love the people who do that and when you ask where they are it is not only out of state, but out somewhere on the east coast or the like...the point of this forum is locals who want to trade or sell...if you want to sell to somebody across the country, go to ARFCOM or one of the other thousand websites like that...
Since I'm the one that chided the seller, I suppose I should weigh in.
I'm not saying that anyone has to show up and be an expert on the AR platform, or wage war as a professional or anything else. But heck, even posting a 'Hi I'm a new guy, wanted to say hi' or 'hey I'd like to go to the next shoot' is a huge way to break the ice and be friendly.
As for the quote:
You went over to LF, basically posted a lot of off topic messages that were rants (as you are wont to do) and they banned you. At least tell the whole story.
I was personally attacked responded, dogged the NEOCONS. Tried to sell some BDUs. They are hostile brain washed NEOCONS
I'm a proud NeoCon myself...
I'll withhold comment to and about SSF467, I've made myself rather clear on those points previously. Nor will I defend LF.NET .. no need, the site and community there stands on it's own merits.
I would like to give a hardy welcome and thanks for piping up to the newer guys who have chosen to engage in this conversation.
I don't expect we'll see a change from this conversation, yet we as members need to see the why's behind managements decision to hold fast to the current membership and participation guidance. I chose a long time ago to remain here despite some fundamental disagreements with some members and mods.. that's not the point behind a lot of this. We should continue to have constructive discussions about our community.
Hopefully as we see the continued political threats from the Anointed One, we will garner additional and active membership. I also hope that we don't experience the growing pains that many of us have concerns about. At least the options have been floated in mostly a proactive and constructive manner.
I think it would be just fine to have a ten post minimum to post for sale ads, even though, some have a lot of posts on other forums. That is only fair.
New arrivals such as myself can still inquire about other for sale ads without a minimum.
Pricing is up to a willing seller and willing buyer to work out.
atrdriver1
02-09-2009, 15:56
Since I'm the one that chided the seller, I suppose I should weigh in.
I'm not saying that anyone has to show up and be an expert on the AR platform, or wage war as a professional or anything else. But heck, even posting a 'Hi I'm a new guy, wanted to say hi' or 'hey I'd like to go to the next shoot' is a huge way to break the ice and be friendly.
As for the quote:
You went over to LF, basically posted a lot of off topic messages that were rants (as you are wont to do) and they banned you. At least tell the whole story.
In the current political environment there is NOTHING more important than all of us sticking together. The fellow trying to sell his rifles at any price was hurting no one. Kelly TTE however has managed to alienate a fellow shooter and judging by what he was selling a very active shooter. Thanks to Kelly TTE it looks like that guy will not be returning. That harms all of us. Personally I work hard to stay off of the ATF's RADAR and am willing to pay a considerable premium for Face to Face local sales. I’ll thank you not to presume to tell me what it is worth to me. It is REALLY hard to find good FF AR's locally at ANY price.
Kelly TTE you owe all of us an apology for doing real measurable harm to this community.
If you are not man enough to publicly admit your error and apologize then Osprey may decide that his sense of fairness requires you to sell me one of your AR's at what ever price he deems fair. Or just maybe he should stay out of it like you should have stayed out of this other fellows thread.
I think that considering all Kelly has done to HELP the community, he is certainly allowed to question a newcomer who thus far had only appeared to be a profiteer...
Great-Kazoo
02-09-2009, 16:32
In the current political environment there is NOTHING more important than all of us sticking together. The fellow trying to sell his rifles at any price was hurting no one. Kelly TTE however has managed to alienate a fellow shooter and judging by what he was selling a very active shooter. Thanks to Kelly TTE it looks like that guy will not be returning. That harms all of us. Personally I work hard to stay off of the ATF's RADAR and am willing to pay a considerable premium for Face to Face local sales. I’ll thank you not to presume to tell me what it is worth to me. It is REALLY hard to find good FF AR's locally at ANY price.
Kelly TTE you owe all of us an apology for doing real measurable harm to this community.
If you are not man enough to publicly admit your error and apologize then Osprey may decide that his sense of fairness requires you to sell me one of your AR's at what ever price he deems fair. Or just maybe he should stay out of it like you should have stayed out of this other fellows thread.
WTF
Mr 14 post demands an apology from someone who's been here way more then 14 post.
Sir, I don't like the cut of your jib.
atrdriver1
02-09-2009, 16:49
Like it or not right is right whether it is on post 14 or post 414. Feel free to disagree, but to imply post count has anything to do with it is just silly because I am refering to the shooting community not just this particular website.
GhostRider
02-09-2009, 16:52
WTF
Mr 14 post demands an apology from someone who's been here way more then 14 post.
Sir, I don't like the cut of your jib.
Jim I really wish you hadn't gone there. The fact that someone only has 14 posts doesn't mean he has any less of an opinion or can't contribute to a thread any less than someone with higher posts. While both sides of this discussion has merit, there is no reason to go off on that path. Lets try to keep this some what constructive.
Well put GhostRider ..
Atrdriver1 .. I'm not going to be Kelly's champion here. I haven't read the post in question, but you either like Kelly a shit ton or you can't stand him.. He's a good egg, odd ( nuthin but love Kelly) but a good guy who will bend over backwards for the folks here. If he's calling someone out and he's wrong, it's the mods gig to correct him. He has contributed more to this site and several others than 95% of the members, mayhaps you could take that in to consideration in your assessment.
This has become a dead issue, the mods have been very clear they aren't going to change the rules, this isn't the first time and I suspect it will not be the last that this issue has been brought up. The good news is that we haven't had a serious enough incident to require us as a community to take some of these steps.. keep your fingers crossed that we don't have to face those issues.
Now off with you all, drag yourselves to the next club shoot and start contributing!
mightymouse
02-09-2009, 22:47
Heinlein says the easiest way to see if a deal is fair is to turn it around and offer it to the other person.
I hereby declare myself offended by atrdriver1's comments. I insist that he apologize to me and offer my one of his weapons at a price that I deem fair.
That seem reasonable to you? Of course not. If you insist that a persons actions, be they in person, or in text, should be given a pass simply because he's a member of the 'gun community' without examination, then you encourage a community that doesn't police itself and encourages morally cannibalistic actions. If a person puts themselves out there, be it in opinion, for sale post, or other action, then they, as men of conscience, should be willing to tolerate feedback on their actions.
Such feedback is the hallmark of a mature and civilized society.
WillysWagon
02-09-2009, 23:06
Just remember, follow the rules of the 'Trading Post' (the for sale/trade sections) and all will be good [Beer]
Don't follow them and your post will be deleted, continue and you'll be banned (at least for a short time).
Well put GhostRider ..
Atrdriver1 .. I'm not going to be Kelly's champion here. I haven't read the post in question, but you either like Kelly a shit ton or you can't stand him.. He's a good egg, odd ( nuthin but love Kelly) but a good guy who will bend over backwards for the folks here. If he's calling someone out and he's wrong, it's the mods gig to correct him. He has contributed more to this site and several others than 95% of the members, mayhaps you could take that in to consideration in your assessment.
This has become a dead issue, the mods have been very clear they aren't going to change the rules, this isn't the first time and I suspect it will not be the last that this issue has been brought up. The good news is that we haven't had a serious enough incident to require us as a community to take some of these steps.. keep your fingers crossed that we don't have to face those issues.
Now off with you all, drag yourselves to the next club shoot and start contributing!
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