CCW on school grounds

[atrdriver1]

If I am reading the law correctly (edited to add: sturtle pointed out the piece I was missing) it seems anyone with a CCW permit can carry any weapon OTHER than a handgun on school grounds. So...one could legally carry a folding stock AK47 under his trench coat but not a handgun? (edited to add: I think I was totally wrong on this, so don't try it.)

Here are the pertinent sections of the law. All caps emphasis added by me.



http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/18-12-105.5.asp

18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds.
(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a DEADLY WEAPON as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

(2) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2000, p. 709, § 45, effective July 1, 2000.)

(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:

(a) The weapon is unloaded and remains inside a motor vehicle while upon the real estate of any public or private college, university, or seminary; or

(b) The person is in that person's own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under that persons's control at the time of the act of carrying; or

(c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person's or another's person or property while traveling; or

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as said section existed prior to its repeal; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a CONCEALED HANDGUN in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3);(SEE THIS SECTION BELOW) or

(d.5) The weapon involved was a handgun and the person held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3); or

(e) The person is a peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.; or.

(f) and (g) (Deleted by amendment, L. 2003, p. 1626, § 51, effective August 6, 2003.)

(h) The person has possession of the weapon for use in an educational program approved by a school which program includes, but shall not be limited to, any course designed for the repair or maintenance of weapons.



http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/18-12-214.asp

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions.
(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does NOT authorize a person to carry a concealed HANDGUN onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked.

(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty.

(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

[Irving]

Regardless of what the law says...

1) Do you want to find out the hard way when a Class 6 Felony is the minimum punishment?

2) If they want to expell a high school girl for having a fake wooden gun, do you want to find out the hard way when a Class 6 Felony is the minimum punishment?

[HunterCO]

You lost me what part of DEADLY WEAPON excludes rifles. You can not carry a gun into a K-12 school period. Unless your a police officer or are authorized by the school to do so.

Back when colorado was a may issue state if you had a permit you could in fact carry your gun on school grounds. I had a permit back then however when they wrote the new shall issue law they made it illegal to carry a handgun on school grounds period.

You can enter school grounds with a permit carrying concealed as long as you do not exit your vehicle. If you exit your vehicle you must leave your gun locked inside your vehicle.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

Colorado law does permit the lawful carry of a concealed handgun on college campuses, however, Colorado college campuses generally will expel a student for the lawful conceal carry on campus.

It's an ongoing battle.

[Colorado Osprey]

In El Paso County the CCW is labeled only as a Concealed Hangun Permit and only lets you conceal a handgun, no other type of regulated weapon.

I will second, third or forth the motion (wherever in the list I am) that you should not enter a school with any firearm/weapon or facsimile.

[Irving]

Colorado law does permit the lawful carry of a concealed handgun on college campuses, however, Colorado college campuses generally will expel a student for the lawful conceal carry on campus.

It's an ongoing battle.

Are you sure? Seems like the last time I read the laws it mentioned college campuses as well. I could certainly be wrong about this though, as my less than photographic memory is only showing me "k-12" for sure. [Tooth]

[atrdriver1]

Ok. I was afraid of this. Let me GREATLY condense the originaly posted sections of the law. I am not advocating any particular action. I am just pointing out the absurdity of the way the law is written. Unless some one out there can point out what I am missing. ie a different section of the law that plugs the "AK47 hole".


18-12-105.5.
"(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly...has in such person's possession a DEADLY WEAPON...in or on the real estate...of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary..."

"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon...except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a CONCEALED HANDGUN in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214 (3);(SEE THIS SECTION BELOW)


18-12-214.
"(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section."

"(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does NOT authorize a person to carry a concealed HANDGUN onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school;..."

[atrdriver1]

You lost me what part of DEADLY WEAPON excludes rifles. You can not carry a gun into a K-12 school period. Unless your a police officer or are authorized by the school to do so.

Back when colorado was a may issue state if you had a permit you could in fact carry your gun on school grounds. I had a permit back then however when they wrote the new shall issue law they made it illegal to carry a handgun on school grounds period.

You can enter school grounds with a permit carrying concealed as long as you do not exit your vehicle. If you exit your vehicle you must leave your gun locked inside your vehicle.

This part:
"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon...

[atrdriver1]

Colorado law does permit the lawful carry of a concealed handgun on college campuses, however, Colorado college campuses generally will expel a student for the lawful conceal carry on campus.

It's an ongoing battle.

You are right.

[atrdriver1]

In El Paso County the CCW is labeled only as a Concealed Hangun Permit and only lets you conceal a handgun, no other type of regulated weapon..

An excelent point that warrants futher research/discusion.


[QUOTE=I will second, third or forth the motion (wherever in the list I am) that you should not enter a school with any firearm/weapon or facsimile.[/QUOTE]

Because you fear prosecution or some other reason?

[HunterCO]

This part:
"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon...

Yep and your point is???? That part of the statue simply states if you have a CCW you can not be arrested for carrying a CW.

By all means point out the part that says you can carry a DEADLY WEAPON in a k-12 school.

[atrdriver1]

Are you sure? Seems like the last time I read the laws it mentioned college campuses as well. I could certainly be wrong about this though, as my less than photographic memory is only showing me "k-12" for sure. [Tooth]

Yes he is right. This section allows permit holders to carry WEAPONS on school grounds all the way through colleges and seminaries:

18-12-105.5.
"(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly...has in such person's possession a DEADLY WEAPON...in or on the real estate...of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary..."

"(3) It shall NOT be an offense under this section if:"

(d) The person, at the time of carrying a CONCEALED WEAPON, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon..."

This section that makes an exception specifically for HANDGUNS only pertains to K-12:

"(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does NOT authorize a person to carry a concealed HANDGUN onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school;..."

[Irving]

It looks to me like the law is written that way because people get the permit to carry a concealed handgun, so they specifically state that even WITH a permit, you can not carry a deadly weapon, even a HANDGUN onto school grounds. After all, does the Colorado CCW allow you to conceal anything but a handgun?

I'm actually curious about this, because many states CCW's will allow you to conceal an AOW as well, which equates to a SBS (Short Barreled Shotgun).

[atrdriver1]

Yep and your point is???? That part of the statue simply states if you have a CCW you can not be arrested for carrying a CW.

By all means point out the part that says you can carry a DEADLY WEAPON in a k-12 school.

You make an excellent point in that the first part of 18-5-105.5 references only "deadly weapons" while the exception made for CCW holders uses the term "concealed weapon".

I would suggest (and therefore admittedly debatably) that because the 18 code definition of "Deadly weapon", as seen below, is so broad as to be all inclusive and would render any attempt to frame a usable definition of "concealed weapon", as existing outside and separate from "Deadly weapon", impossible. This may be why there in fact is no separate definition for just “weapon” in the 18 code.

You seem to concede the point that the law ALLOWS permit holders to carry a "concealed weapon" or "CW" as long as it does not constitute a "Deadly weapon" on school grounds.

I think we have to accept the terms "Deadly weapon" and "weapon" as interchangeable, otherwise the exceptions stated in 18-5-105.5 would be utterly meaningless. That is unless you can think of an example of a "concealed weapon" that falls outside the definition below.

A long day and a couple of beers make me unsure that any of the above even makes sense.


18-1-901
(e) "Deadly weapon" means any of the following which in the manner it is used or intended to be used is capable of producing death or serious bodily injury:

(I) A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded;
(II) A knife;
(III) A bludgeon; or
(IV) Any other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate.

[HunterCO]

You make an excellent point in that the first part of 18-5-105.5 references only "deadly weapons" while the exception made for CCW holders uses the term "concealed weapon".

I would suggest (and therefore admittedly debatably) that because the 18 code definition of "Deadly weapon", as seen below, is so broad as to be all inclusive and would render any attempt to frame a usable definition of "concealed weapon", as existing outside and separate from "Deadly weapon", impossible. This may be why there in fact is no separate definition for just “weapon” in the 18 code.

You seem to concede the point that the law ALLOWS permit holders to carry a "concealed weapon" or "CW" as long as it does not constitute a "Deadly weapon" on school grounds.

I think we have to accept the terms "Deadly weapon" and "weapon" as interchangeable, otherwise the exceptions stated in 18-5-105.5 would be utterly meaningless. That is unless you can think of an example of a "concealed weapon" that falls outside the definition below.

A long day and a couple of beers make me unsure that any of the above even makes sense.


18-1-901
(e) "Deadly weapon" means any of the following which in the manner it is used or intended to be used is capable of producing death or serious bodily injury:

(I) A firearm, whether loaded or unloaded;
(II) A knife;
(III) A bludgeon; or
(IV) Any other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate.

Read sturtles post above he understands and you have no clue what your talking about. My advice is to contact an attorney and have them explain the law to you.

You mix and match differnt statues to come to your own conclusion which will get you arrested and in jail.

[atrdriver1]

It looks to me like the law is written that way because people get the permit to carry a concealed handgun, so they specifically state that even WITH a permit, you can not carry a deadly weapon, even a HANDGUN onto school grounds. After all, does the Colorado CCW allow you to conceal anything but a handgun?

I'm actually curious about this, because many states CCW's will allow you to conceal an AOW as well, which equates to a SBS (Short Barreled Shotgun).

Wow you know what. That is the answer to my question. After further reading I think current permits only pertain to handguns. They used to (prior to '03) pertain to knives, bludgeons etc... and that is why my permit reads "Concealed Weapons Permit" and new permits specify only handgun. But your question caused me to dig a little deeper and I found this:

"18-12-216. Permits issued prior to the effective date of this part 2.
(1) A permit issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, shall permanently expire on June 30, 2007, or on the expiration date specified on the permit, whichever occurs first."

My permit has an expiration date in 2012. I think I need to contact my Sheriff and trade it in for one of the new "Handgun Permits". Yikes!

I also think this was the source of Hunter CO's comments. He can feel free to disregard all my verbal (actually textual) diarrhea regarding "Deadly weapons vs. "concealed weapons" etc...

[atrdriver1]

Read sturtles post above he understands and you have no clue what your talking about. My advice is to contact an attorney and have them explain the law to you.

You mix and match differnt statues to come to your own conclusion which will get you arrested and in jail.

I think you are right! See my above posted reply to sturtle.

"Contact an attorney" always good advice. Expensive but solid.

As for mixing and matching... I try not to but they constantly refer to other sections and force a fella to jump around a lot. The revised statutes do not lend themselves to neat a tidy forum threads.

I was thinking they had left a large loop hole, but now I am thinking I was wrong on that.

[atrdriver1]

You lost me what part of DEADLY WEAPON excludes rifles. You can not carry a gun into a K-12 school period. Unless your a police officer or are authorized by the school to do so.

Back when colorado was a may issue state if you had a permit you could in fact carry your gun on school grounds. I had a permit back then however when they wrote the new shall issue law they made it illegal to carry a handgun on school grounds period.

You can enter school grounds with a permit carrying concealed as long as you do not exit your vehicle. If you exit your vehicle you must leave your gun locked inside your vehicle.

I got all hung up on your first sentence here. I should have paid more attention to the rest of it because I think you are exactly right.

BTW, that is a seriously old school character in your avatar...takes me back...

[HunterCO]

Wow you know what. That is the answer to my question. After further reading I think current permits only pertain to handguns. They used to (prior to '03) pertain to knives, bludgeons etc... and that is why my permit reads "Concealed Weapons Permit" and new permits specify only handgun. But your question caused me to dig a little deeper and I found this:

"18-12-216. Permits issued prior to the effective date of this part 2.
(1) A permit issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, shall permanently expire on June 30, 2007, or on the expiration date specified on the permit, whichever occurs first."

My permit has an expiration date in 2012. I think I need to contact my Sheriff and trade it in for one of the new "Handgun Permits". Yikes!

I also think this was the source of Hunter CO's comments. He can feel free to disregard all my verbal (actually textual) diarrhea regarding "Deadly weapons vs. "concealed weapons" etc...

Once again you are making a fool of your self let me ask you this what statute does your permit state you have the right to carry????

What does that statute state you can carry???

Some jurisdictions still say WEAPON some say HANDGUN my permit out of Jeffco still says WEAPON as it did back in the day before the shall issue law.

However it says I am authorized under statute 18-12-203 which means it is nothing more than a HANDGUN permit.

Since you are obviousley to stubborn to get legal advice I guess you can test the waters and let us all know how it go's!!

[atrdriver1]

Interesting. Mine says 18-12-201. I am not sure what if any that small difference between yours and mine makes. I think it still only pertains to handguns. I am still going to call my Sheriff and make sure I don't need to update my permit.

Stubborn. Yes, but not so much so as to think I don't need to clarify this with the Sheriff.

[Chief_of_Scouts]

So again, as I understand what I am reading for Colorado Statutes; 18-12-105.5 and 18-12-214, it is perfectly "legal" to carry a concealed handgun on a college campus in the state of Colorado.

I am attending Pikes Peak CC for some night classes and there I was informed that it is a "Violation of Safety and Property" contained in the"Students Standards of Conduct" for PPCC to carry a concealed handgun, permit or not. The Campus President can authorize exceptions on a case-by-case basis.

One need not be a lawyer to understand the written law.

[Circuits]

Legal, yes.

Often forbidden by a school's code of conduct, so you could face sanctions or expulsion if you're a student or faculty member. They could kick you out for it, but not arrest you for it.