Minimum Wage

[tmleadr03]

Fast food workers are striking saying they need to have their wages doubled. They just can survive on what they make. Waaaaaaaaaa!!!!!


I have NEVER earned minimum wage. My first job was at Subway and I made a whooping 75 cents over minimum wage to close the shop. Minimum wage is a starting point (should be abolished anyways) and if you make yourself work more you will make more. It is for people entering into the workforce.


Now I hear about these people bitching about how they don't make enough and I laugh. My last paycheck was Oct 2011. Cry me a river. Don't like how much you make DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Work a second job, go to school, learn a trade, stop bitching and do something.

[TFOGGER]

I am self employed, and if I looked at my hourly pay, I'd probably go postal. Just a tick over $7 an hour, take home...[facepalm]

Tenacious, or just stupid? I've been doing this for almost 17 years now, and didn't draw a paycheck for the first 4+....

[Zundfolge]

Well the laugh will be on them ... double minimum wage and half of them will be instantly unemployed. Dumbasses.

[tmleadr03]

I am self employed, and if I looked at my hourly pay, I'd probably go postal. Just a tick over $7 an hour, take home...[facepalm]

Tenacious, or just stupid? I've been doing this for almost 17 years now, and didn't draw a paycheck for the first 4+....

Sigh. I didn't want to hear that.


I WILL cut myself a paycheck this year, if for no other reason then to say I paid myself after one year in a fixed location....

[Aloha_Shooter]

I made minimum wage when I pumped gas and when I was flipping hamburgers at Jack-in-the-Box. Honestly, half my min wage coworkers at Jack's didn't deserve much more than $1/hr. Used to have this argument all the time in college, primarily with kids who had never associated with anyone who had worked for minimum wage much less done that kind of job themselves but wanted to feel good about supporting a "living wage".

[roberth]

Minimum wage is part of the command economy, the government is the last entity that should determine how much someone should be paid for a task. The employer should make that determination and if no one will that the job at the offered rate the employer will have to increase the compensation.

[merl]

Like it or not they are doing something about it. They can demand more from their bosses and their bosses would say GTFO. So instead they take it public and rely on public opinion and sympathy to pressure their bosses (who should still say GTFO). I don't think they realize that they are rather low skilled workers and easily replaced.

[Great-Kazoo]

Sigh. I didn't want to hear that.


I WILL cut myself a paycheck this year, if for no other reason then to say I paid myself after one year in a fixed location....

Talk to your accountant regarding a quarterly bonus, vs actual paycheck.

regarding "minimum wage" In some business if not most unless you bring a lot to the table your entry salary is no where near what a skilled employee receives. Should the entry workers demand higher pay too? This is akin to the college mentality of "i have a degree" i need to make $$XX starting pay.

Start at the bottom and either work your way up, or to a better paying job.
Today's young American worker is going to find them self in the same job market as younger folks in England, Greece & France. UNEMPLOYED.

[Mtn.man]

I make WAY under minimum wage, being self empoyed.
Pres
COE
COO
foreman
QC manager
Accountant
payroll
Deliveries
material handling
purchasing agent


Oh well, let em bitch and then get a real job.

[Jamnanc]

Get a different job if you don't like yours. Work harder, earn more.

[Zundfolge]

I look back over my entire working life (I'm 44 and have been working pretty much solidly since I was 16) and I believe I've worked for Minimum Wage for only 2 months!

The first month at my very first job at 16 (was a Wendy's). After my 30 day probationary period I got a nickel raise. Then at my second job bussing tables at a Mr. Steak I had to start back at minimum wage again but after my 30 day probationary period I got a dime raise.

That's it, every other hour I've worked since then for the last 28 years has been at some rate higher than minimum wage.

I suspect my experience is pretty common.

[Sawin]

My first real job, aside from mowing lawns, was my senior year in high school. I knew I was going to be studying computer science in college, so figured I'd do tech work at the big new store in town "Staples" to get my feet wet. I started at $7.25 an hour, as a sales associate and computer technician... this was almost 15 years ago... I think I started off strong, and haven't looked back.

I agree 100% that minimum wage is simply a starting point, that no one should ever expect to live on for an extended period of time. Do your job, do it well, and you will not be at minimum wage for long... solid letters of recommendation from my first 3 employers helped me get to where I am now, and that was only because of my character and work ethic, nothing else.

[trlcavscout]

I agree a lot of people don't deserve more then minimum wage. Problem is you can't get an apt, car insurance and put food on the table for minimum wage. I have heard the average age for people to move out of the parents house is now like 28? Then a lot move back in by age 40. We are going the way of the multiple family's living in one house, thats gonna be the only way to have money soon. Everything goes up every year except my fucking pay check.

[roberth]

I agree a lot of people don't deserve more then minimum wage. Problem is you can't get an apt, car insurance and put food on the table for minimum wage. I have heard the average age for people to move out of the parents house is now like 28? Then a lot move back in by age 40. We are going the way of the multiple family's living in one house, thats gonna be the only way to have money soon. Everything goes up every year except my fucking pay check.

That is where the free shit army has the government cover those things.

If a person possesses a minimum wage skill and doesn't want to put in the effort to improve themselves then they shouldn't own an apartment, a car, or any more than ramen on the dinner table. They aren't entitled to anything.

[Zundfolge]

When adjusted for inflation, Minimum wage is higher today than when it was initially instituted.

http://www.financialramblings.com/images/minimum-wage-inflation-large.png

[davsel]

What country is this again?

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/r1W9I9TOdtn40k8MuffSnA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD0zNDI7cT04NTt3PTUxMg--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/f8b52e48fc6acd1c3b0f6a706700fb99.jpg

Oh, New York.

[crashdown]

Most McDonald's jobs were never meant to be a full time job.
When I was a kid a lot of my friends worked part time, and worked with seniors who were supplementing income, or just looking for something to do.
An entry level position at a fast food joint was not created to become a career.

[Zundfolge]

One of the basic laws of economics is; Price Controls Create Shortages (http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2009/10/econ_101_price.html).

Its one of those things you're just not getting around.


Minimum Wage is a price control, and the shortage it creates is called unemployment.

[alan0269]

I don't know of any fast food restaurants that pay minimum wage. They all are paying above minimum wage because they have a hard time drawing employees from other businesses, typically retail, because it's just not "cool" to work fast food. The people that have half a brain and some type of work ethic are able to get into management positions that they can actually make a decent wage (most will get a salary plus bonuses and benefits). What the other "I'm entitled" morons don't get is that if the businesses are required to pay them more, the money has to come from typically one of two places - either 1) fewer employees with increased production (good luck) or 2) the added cost of wages being passed on to the consumer. Since most of the fast food restaurants (McDonalds, BK, Wendy's) are running at a 3-4% net profit when running efficiently, they can't absorb added labor costs, therefore they will try a combination of both options of recouping the money they are paying out, but in the end they will need to increase the cost to the consumer for their products. The workers need to realize that they will be no better off as the increased wages directly increase inflation (at least through some businesses) and they will end up spending more of their money (that they will have to work harder for than before) on the same items they used to purchase for less before their pay increases.

[kawiracer14]

I thought Obummer was gonna fix all dis?

[kidicarus13]

Get a different job if you don't like yours. Work harder, earn more.

BINGO!


I agree a lot of people don't deserve more then minimum wage. Problem is you can't get an apt, car insurance and put food on the table for minimum wage. I have heard the average age for people to move out of the parents house is now like 28? Then a lot move back in by age 40. We are going the way of the multiple family's living in one house, thats gonna be the only way to have money soon. Everything goes up every year except my fucking pay check.

You do what you have to do to get by within the law and while using your moral compass. Just because most people move out of their parents' house after high school or college doesn't mean it's right for every individual. If you have to live with your parents until you're 32 to save up some money than so be it. If you have to live with 2 roommates for a few years, that's the way it goes. Ride the bus or your bike until you can get a car. Figured it out! This new generation of kids expects the same lifestyle as what they see people on TV or in People magazine living. Reality is the life you are living. Don;t like it?! YOU NEED TO CHANGE SOMETHING IN YOUR LIFE. Hey kids (and some adults), LIFE IS NOT EASY AND NOTHING COMES WITHOUT A LITTLE STRUGGLE! Now get to work.

[Batteriesnare]

Very interesting. I've spent the last three weeks looking for good employees (wearing the HR hat in addition to all my other duties), and a lot of the people I've spoke with mention minimum wage - and their willingness to work at this level. I agree that minimum wage is a starting point and shouldn't be counted on to support you as a career, but if that is what the company is willing to pay for that job, that's what your time is worth there. Whether or not you agree with that is completely your choice, and you can look elsewhere - but you are by no means entitled to a comfortable living!

[Flatline]

I have never work minimum wage, even in high school I was making $13.25/hr. I never chose to work where I valued myself or employers valued me at that level.

Problem is that in the current system if you get paid minimum wage (and many people will/can never make more) they have dependency on the system, lower it and dependency increases. This occurs in ways people don't even realize. Don't have $20 to get to the hospital, take a $800+ ambulance ride because an indigent program or medicare will pick that up!

Some people are going to be dependent on the system no matter what.

[Rucker61]

Government statistics on minimum wage demographics:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2012.htm

Only about 5% of hourly paid workers made minimum wage or below. Half of those are age 25 or below. Why is this a problem?

Feedback from the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21571894-president-proposes-hefty-increase-minimum-wage-trickle-up-economics

Notably: "a higher minimum wage costs some low-skilled workers their jobs while helping those who keep them. Mr Neumark is particularly dismissive of the notion that a higher minimum wage can boost the economy, and indeed that is not a claim the White House makes."

[PugnacAutMortem]

My last paycheck was Oct 2011.

I don't mean to derail the thread...but how do you live with this kind of a situation? I've always wanted to start my own business, but the whole no paycheck thing is kind of a big hurdle (especially with small kids in the picture).

[Dave_L]

For 15/hr, here is what I'll expect with my next visit to McD's. I'd like to be greeted at the door with a smile. I'd like to be escorted to my freshly cleaned table where I patiently wait for a server to ask for my order. Then, they bring my 10 nugget meal, with ice cold coke, to my table while asking how many BBQ sauces i want. Yes, I do want more than 2 sauces. After the fact, Id like the server to come over, clear my tray , refill my drink and ask if there's anything else I would like. No more rude, incompetent workers. No more Spanish. No more forgetting stuff in my order. No more messy drink stations. No more crap on tables. Want to be paid more? Go earn it. Unions is the last thing we need here

[Great-Kazoo]

I don't mean to derail the thread...but how do you live with this kind of a situation? I've always wanted to start my own business, but the whole no paycheck thing is kind of a big hurdle (especially with small kids in the picture).

Overhead, lease, ins, equipment (rental, or purchase) to name a few. i was self employed for 5 years. In that time taxes, SS etc took their more than fair share. Add to that cost of commuting , vehicle upkeep, , the list goes on.

You have a family, i suggest 3-5 yrs of saved money to cover income while you build your business. Include another 2 yrs of income for the unexpected, sickness, fire 2 buildings down takes out the whole complex, on & on.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Well the laugh will be on them ... double minimum wage and half of them will be instantly unemployed. Dumbasses.



Start at the bottom and either work your way up, or to a better paying job.
Today's young American worker is going to find them self in the same job market as younger folks in England, Greece & France. UNEMPLOYED.

Yes.

Or, alternately, give it to them and the price of everything rises - putting them no better and likely worse off than they were. Oops! But hey, it is a bigger number!

[Rooskibar03]

http://youtu.be/4zNoxjUUyec



cant embed from phone

[Ridge]

Minimum wage is basically "I'd pay you less if I could, but I can't."

That said, minimum wage jobs were meant for high school and college students, people who were still living with their parents and with little to no bills. But with over 70% of new jobs in the past 3 years being minimum wage jobs, things have changed.

[Bailey Guns]

They aren't entitled to anything.

If only that were true...

[Post Toastie]

If only that were true...

It is true. It's just not the case in the country right now...

[Bailey Guns]

Then it's really not true. We're sure spending a lot of money on entitlements that people aren't entitled to.

[sellersm]

Then it's really not true. We're sure spending a lot of money on entitlements that people aren't entitled to.

^This! And take that entitlement 'philosophy/worldview' and apply to every area of life: morality, spirituality, social, economic, you-name-it, and you end up with a big pile of mess. History shows us what this leads to, and it's all repeating again... This time, there may not be a 'resetting' of civilization, not as we've know it historically, anyway...

[roberth]

So these people earning $8 an hour go on strike for $15 an hour, I have a few questions.

What exemplary work did they do to demand such an outrageous increase (87.5%) for such a low-skill job? "Nothing, I deserve it" will be the idiotic answer.

Where do they think that additional $7 an hour is going to come from? My guess is that "the owner is rich" will be the typical, thoughtless, and (D) answer.

Will the quality of food and service improve in the eye of the consumer? I doubt it, in fact I'll bet the quality of both go down. The owner will seek to lower his costs thus impacting the product quality and the employee will feel emboldened to work even less.

Will my job give me a 87.5% increase just because I think I'm entitled to it? If I made such a ridiculous demand at my place of employment and I was serious about it they'd have me out the door in less than 2 or 3 weeks.

[stoner01]

So these people earning $8 an hour go on strike for $15 an hour, I have a couple of questions.

What exemplary work did they do to demand such an outrageous increase (87.5%) for such a low-skill job? "Nothing, I deserve it" will be the idiotic answer.

Where do they think that additional $7 an hour is going to come from? My guess is that "the owner is rich" will be the typical, thoughtless, and (D) answer.

Will the quality of food and service improve in the eye of the consumer? I doubt it, in fact I'll bet the quality of both go down. The owner will seek to lower his costs thus impacting the product quality and the employee will feel emboldened to work even less.

Will my job give me a 87.5% increase just because I think I'm entitled to it? If I made such a ridiculous demand at my place of employment and I was serious about it they'd have me out the door in less than 2 or 3 weeks.

Truth.

[sellersm]

...and Atlas Shrugged....

[Post Toastie]

These people are lucky to have jobs, not entitled to the "rich" owners money. Too bad they don't understand that and the union organizers tell them they "deserve" it...

[hatidua]

I've been self-employed since I was 18 (I'm several weeks shy of 47 now) and while I've never had a minimum wage job, something my wife said regarding an unrelated matter comes to mind: 'you never fully know what someone else might be going through'. Although her statement was about someone who had a relative die and kept it to themselves, I think that sentiment can be applied to a great many issues.

[tmleadr03]

I don't mean to derail the thread...but how do you live with this kind of a situation? I've always wanted to start my own business, but the whole no paycheck thing is kind of a big hurdle (especially with small kids in the picture).

My statement is not to say I have not had benefits from the business. It has paid for daycare/school for my kids, and my tool collection has doubled in, if not size, cost as I picked up expensive shop equipment. And while I do not expect a steady paycheck I am looking at putting my oldest in a private school. Still less expensive then paying a wage to myself.

But I also have a wife who works. She is covering all the expenses for the house. Though she is starting to get cranky about that. Until I bring in a steady paycheck from it she is stuck at her current job so I am very motivated to make headway on making money.

[tmleadr03]

Minimum wage is basically "I'd pay you less if I could, but I can't."

That said, minimum wage jobs were meant for high school and college students, people who were still living with their parents and with little to no bills. But with over 70% of new jobs in the past 3 years being minimum wage jobs, things have changed.

How bad of a worker is this person if they are not worth the minimum wage? I would say at that point they are just not employed.

[Ridge]

How bad of a worker is this person if they are not worth the minimum wage? I would say at that point they are just not employed.

Not so much about the quality of the work, as the demands of the job. How much would someone say a person is worth to assemble bread, lettuce and beef on an assembly line? How much is someone worth to have stand at a counter at a gas station to serve the 4 people that come in between midnight and 4am?

[Aloha_Shooter]

minimum wage jobs were meant for high school and college students, people who were still living with their parents and with little to no bills. But with over 70% of new jobs in the past 3 years being minimum wage jobs, things have changed.

No, things HAVEN'T changed. That's precisely the problem ... we should have recovered from the 2007 crash a few years ago and haven't really recovered anything except in the fairy world of academics. We haven't got new high paying jobs because either people don't have the money or it's not worth paying that kind of money (especially with Obamacare penalties) to hire someone. LOWER the minimum wage and you'd probably see a lot more of those "underprivileged" kids get part-time jobs and thereby learn some work ethics. Continue to raise 'em and you'll see continued contraction as it's just not worth having anyone do the work.

[Zundfolge]

Not so much about the quality of the work, as the demands of the job.

No, actually its all about the value of the job to the employer.

If you have to pay someone $15/hr but their hour's worth of work only makes you $10 then you just go out of business and the job goes away.

[Dr_Fwd]

How much is the minimum wage anyway?

[clublights]

These people are lucky to have jobs, not entitled to the "rich" owners money. Too bad they don't understand that and the union organizers tell them they "deserve" it...

The union guys never put it in context for the workers so they join in the " outrage" and example of that is this

Apparently S. Robson Walton ( of Walmart.. yeah I knew evil but hear me out) has a "16 million dollar car collection" so the protesters were after him over it.. even I at first was .. damn 16 million in cars ?? what a jerk he could pay his people more.. then I wondered how many Employees does Walmart have ? well 2.2 million so if he sold of the car collection he could give everyone 8 bucks. not 8 more an hour.. not 8 more a year.... 8 bucks.. PERIOD.. hell actually a bit under 8 bucks but you figure .2 million of those are upper management and you can skip giving them the 8 bucks...

then I wondered his salary ... it's a bit over 220K a year ... even if he pulled a Steve Jobs and took no pay the workers in Walmart would only see like 10 cents more a year.

But no one is ever going to put that in context for the workers..... if they knew those numbers... why would they bother?

[Flatline]

How much is the minimum wage anyway?

seven something

[Zundfolge]

And don't get me started on the stupid ballot initiative that our fellow Coloradoans voted for a coupe years ago that tied the Minimum Wage to the Inflation rate ... so when inflation starts to spike it'll kill a bunch of small businesses and balloon unemployment all at the same time ... "yay free money taken from evil rich people!"

[kawiracer14]

Colorado has some of the most ridiculous tax ballot initiatives every election cycle. The new one for schools that requires how much of the budget to go to education ... come on now. Would be nice if my truck didn't almost get swallowed by the pot holes as I drive to work every day... but its for the children!

[Marlin]

Wait until uncle barry lets in all the illegals. [panic]

[hatidua]

Wait until uncle barry lets in all the illegals. [panic]

-they're already here.

[Zundfolge]

Colorado has some of the most ridiculous tax ballot initiatives every election cycle.

This is actually the result of a real good thing called TABOR (TAxpayer Bill Of Rights) that forces the government to put all tax increases to a popular vote (it also required them to refund any budget surplus back to the people, but they've found ways to steal that back ... they've also found ways around the requirement to get permission to raise taxes by calling some taxes "fees").

[Marlin]

-they're already here.

Naw, the four that aren't here yet.

[kawiracer14]

This is actually the result of a real good thing called TABOR (TAxpayer Bill Of Rights) that forces the government to put all tax increases to a popular vote (it also required them to refund any budget surplus back to the people, but they've found ways to steal that back ... they've also found ways around the requirement to get permission to raise taxes by calling some taxes "fees").

I've learned far too much about TABOR working in healthcare... TABOR is a good idea overall but it makes me fill a No in many extra times on a ballot [Beer]

[Zundfolge]

TABOR is frankly the only thing keeping Colorado from becoming East California.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I've learned far too much about TABOR working in healthcare... TABOR is a good idea overall but it makes me fill a No in many extra times on a ballot [Beer]

x2

[Post Toastie]

they've also found ways around the requirement to get permission to raise taxes by calling some taxes "fees").

I call this "getting Rittered"

[Justin]

Let's assume the average fast food employee works 20 hours a week and 50 weeks per year.

At a $15/hr wage that's $15,000/yr, or $7,780 more per employee per year.

According to Wikipedia, food service employs about 4.1 million people in food prep and service.

Let's assume they all get raises to $15/hr, from a minimum wage of $7.78/hr.

This works out to the restaurant industry having to shell out an additional ~$31.9 BILLION/YR!

That kind of money will buy you a lot of time and expertise from automation experts who will gladly write programs and develop robotics capable of doing the menial tasks now done by the average worker, and at a long-run cost savings.

There's already precedent for this in the retail world with the advent of automated check out systems, and I would argue the only thing keeping fast food from doing the same are development costs and tradition.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[DocMedic]

Let's assume the average fast food employee works 20 hours a week and 50 weeks per year.

At a $15/hr wage that's $15,000/yr, or $7,780 more per employee per year.

According to Wikipedia, food service employs about 4.1 million people in food prep and service.

Let's assume they all get raises to $15/hr, from a minimum wage of $7.78/hr.

This works out to the restaurant industry having to shell out an additional ~$31.9 BILLION/YR!

That kind of money will buy you a lot of time and expertise from automation experts who will gladly write programs and develop robotics capable of doing the menial tasks now done by the average worker, and at a long-run cost savings.

There's already precedent for this in the retail world with the advent of automated check out systems, and I would argue the only thing keeping fast food from doing the same are development costs and tradition.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

I remember when I lived in Hawaii in Waikiki MCdonalds had a Automatic drive through Machine it was quite the hit despite all the jargon that it would take "jobs"

[RblDiver]

I'd love to see things like this come to the US:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVOSlUn7e0

Not only does it make food, it entertains you afterwards too!

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

I remember when I lived in Hawaii in Waikiki MCdonalds had a Automatic drive through Machine it was quite the hit despite all the jargon that it would take "jobs"

The McDonald's over somewhere between Lone Tree and Highlands Ranch had those kiosks that took your order. People still prepped and handed your food, but it was possible to order a very big, complicated order and not ever say a word, completely avoiding people.
I so rarely eat at McD's, but honestly....I liked it.

[kidicarus13]

That kind of money will buy you a lot of time and expertise from automation experts who will gladly write programs and develop robotics capable of doing the menial tasks now done by the average worker, and at a long-run cost savings.

There's already precedent for this in the retail world with the advent of automated check out systems, and I would argue the only thing keeping fast food from doing the same are development costs and tradition.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Gman]

Or, alternately, give it to them and the price of everything rises - putting them no better and likely worse off than they were. Oops! But hey, it is a bigger number!
Absolutely. Cost of living goes up proportionately to where they're in the same boat, but fewer of them are working. I would't buy fast food at the prices they'll have to charge. I've already reduced my dining out budget by 75%.

[spqrzilla]

I think its adorable that the unions are trying to organize fast food workers even as Obamacare is turning our nation into a nation of part-time workers.

The idea that minimum wage is a problem is so hilarious that I may hurt myself laughing.

It wasn't a dozen years ago that local fast food places were advertising $10 / hour starting wages because the economy was booming so much that they had to offer more to get people to work.

Meanwhile, the union twits think that they can wish away economics by thinking really hard about how much they love Tinker Bell.

[Gman]

The union bosses get to bring in union dues without producing squat. They make a very comfortable living and send dues to politicians for quid pro quo legislation. It's a great racket.

[MrPrena]

I am not a fan of raising minimum wage. YES, i've worked some jobs that pays minimum wages.
As long as it is NEAR par with growth/inflation, it is fine.

There are some starving small business owners who receive far less than a minimum wages.
How about those career start up positions which pays about 30k/yr , but work 70+ hours?

[centrarchidae]

I get all of that at Chik-Fil-A, and I don't think that they pay much more than minimum wage.

Then again, minimum-wage jobs are usually the jobs that people have when they're first learning how to have a job, show up on time, do all of the crap you're being paid to do, etc. The folks that can wrap their heads around it generally move up in the world. The folks that can't, generally end up at the McDonalds at Colfax and Osage.


For 15/hr, here is what I'll expect with my next visit to McD's. I'd like to be greeted at the door with a smile. I'd like to be escorted to my freshly cleaned table where I patiently wait for a server to ask for my order. Then, they bring my 10 nugget meal, with ice cold coke, to my table while asking how many BBQ sauces i want. Yes, I do want more than 2 sauces. After the fact, Id like the server to come over, clear my tray , refill my drink and ask if there's anything else I would like. No more rude, incompetent workers. No more Spanish. No more forgetting stuff in my order. No more messy drink stations. No more crap on tables. Want to be paid more? Go earn it. Unions is the last thing we need here

ETA:


And don't get me started on the stupid ballot initiative that our fellow Coloradoans voted for a coupe years ago that tied the Minimum Wage to the Inflation rate ... so when inflation starts to spike it'll kill a bunch of small businesses and balloon unemployment all at the same time ... "yay free money taken from evil rich people!"



It's even worse than that. It's linked to the Consumer Price Index, which tracks changes in consumer commodities, for the Denver-Boulder corridor. Doesn't matter what the rest of the state is doing, economically. Not only that, but the list of commodities changes whenever some administration wants to fudge its numbers in order to look better (such as when the Bush-era BLS took beef out of the basket and replaced it with chicken in order to make inflation look lower than it was.)

[jerrymrc]

TABOR is frankly the only thing keeping Colorado from becoming East California.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ Without TABOR We would be screwed. Checking "NO" is a minor inconvenience compared to the rape we would have been subjected to the last couple of years.

[Rucker61]

Another $8 an hour, as many have pointed out, funds an awful lot of automation. I manage Chinese suppliers, and even with the hourly wage they pay, it's worth it to automate. One of my suppliers reduced his workforce from 8k to 5k workers in just under a year. That's a lot of cost savings. And Foxconn, the largest contract manufacturer in the world, announce last year an effort to automate their factories with 1 million robots, thereby getting rid of 1 million jobs. Folks crying for a big jump in minimum wage don't understand economics much at all.

[Cylinder Head]

I would be okay with paying the good people at Wendy's more if they could understand "plain with cheese" but apparently that phrase is just impossible to comprehend.

[Clint45]

In some areas, the only places that are hiring pay minimum wage, and most of those jobs suck. Very few people last more than 6 months at fast food or Wal-Mart because they work everyone as hard as they can and never give them more than 28 hrs per week (often a lot less). Most of their workers (who don't get fired within the first few weeks) find a better job and quit, or take a second minimum wage job . . . but since schedules are never compatible they end up choosing the better one. Maybe 10% of their employees last over a year . . . and these people have very few options . . . many are retirees who can't get by on Social Security alone.

Doubling their pay is just stupid . . . they don't deserve that wage. What they DO deserve is full time hours and merit based raises every 6 months, even if it is only a quarter an hour. Some people are trying to support a family working a shitty minimum wage job because they have no other option, and are told they'll never get over 28 hrs a week, their schedule will constantly change, even the amount of hours they work can suddenly be sliced in half . . . so most of them end up applying for food stamps. If they were given 40 hour workweeks they would not need those food stamps.

[ZERO THEORY]

Minimum wage is part of the command economy, the government is the last entity that should determine how much someone should be paid for a task. The employer should make that determination and if no one will that the job at the offered rate the employer will have to increase the compensation.

Bingo.

I will also add that when I was 16, I worked at a Pizza Hut for 9 months. NOBODY in that place deserved $15 an hour. In fact, the only place(s) I've ever worked that were deserving of that kind of money were auto shops where the guys who weren't certified techs (and thusly didn't get flat rate jobs) still had to bust their asses to get light jobs in and out.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

The union bosses get to bring in union dues without producing squat. They make a very comfortable living and send dues to politicians for quid pro quo legislation. It's a great racket.

This.

And I'd argue this is the real reason democrats and some republicans alike are so enamored with immigration. It isn't a permanent-majority thing for dems, it is a propping up of their SS ponzi that keeps ALL pols in office.

[Irving]

It is amazing to me that people think that because a CEO gets paid a lot, that the company has all this extra money laying around. Yet don't realize that union bosses are the ones sitting around collecting a percentage of everyone's dues while contributing zero to the work product.

Someone brought up unions, but I was unaware any fast food places were unionized.

[Zundfolge]

Someone brought up unions, but I was unaware any fast food places were unionized.

That's what the work stoppages were all about, not just doubling the minimum wage, but unionizing fast food.

[tmleadr03]

Bingo.

I will also add that when I was 16, I worked at a Pizza Hut for 9 months. NOBODY in that place deserved $15 an hour. In fact, the only place(s) I've ever worked that were deserving of that kind of money were auto shops where the guys who weren't certified techs (and thusly didn't get flat rate jobs) still had to bust their asses to get light jobs in and out.

I have worked in those autoshops too and I would be hard pressed to want to pay those guys 15 an hour for the damage I had to fix from their "work". It isn't a minimum wage job by any stretch of the imagination but it is no where close to being 15 bucks an hour. At most 10, with the realization that they need to learn and acquire tools to make more money.

But then I also have major issues with flat rate. [Rant1]

[tmleadr03]

That's what the work stoppages were all about, not just doubling the minimum wage, but unionizing fast food.

Well the quality is already on par with Detroit, now to get the prices there so they need a government bailout...

[kawiracer14]

This ^^^^^^^^^^^ Without TABOR We would be screwed. Checking "NO" is a minor inconvenience compared to the rape we would have been subjected to the last couple of years.

My comment was meant completely in jest.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

It is amazing to me that people think that because a CEO gets paid a lot, that the company has all this extra money laying around.

It amazes me that society (not anyone in particular) is so bothered by CEO pay. This was a huge issue for those occupy dead-weighters and definitely for journalists.
These same people are OK with pop-stars, entertainers, athletes making WAY more than CEOs, but it is the CEOs who are evil.

We used to celebrate success in this country, now we demonize it. You have to pay for talent. Not everyone can run a huge company which has so many stakeholders, such as tons of employees, contractors, supply chain partners, tons of customers, possibly press, and certainly investors/shareholders to all answer to. This isn't a job anyone can do or that we should all get to "take turns" at. $0.02 Success with that much leverage and pressure should be highly rewarded. Just MHO, of course.

[Sawin]

I say fire the lot of them, let the franchise owners decide if they're willing to hire a unionized bunch, then let the operations manager of each restaurant determine the pay scale for their establishments....

[spqrzilla]

These protests are led by SEIU. The same crooked outfit that partnered with ACORN in voter registration fraud, harassing Obama's opponents, thugging up TEA Party rallies etc.

Goons.

[Dave_L]

It amazes me that society (not anyone in particular) is so bothered by CEO pay. This was a huge issue for those occupy dead-weighters and definitely for journalists.
These same people are OK with pop-stars, entertainers, athletes making WAY more than CEOs, but it is the CEOs who are evil.

We used to celebrate success in this country, now we demonize it. You have to pay for talent. Not everyone can run a huge company which has so many stakeholders, such as tons of employees, contractors, supply chain partners, tons of customers, possibly press, and certainly investors/shareholders to all answer to. This isn't a job anyone can do or that we should all get to "take turns" at. $0.02 Success with that much leverage and pressure should be highly rewarded. Just MHO, of course.

Yup, pretty much. For me, I don't want to be the CEO of a major corp because of all the work it entails. I'd rather take a lower paying job that allows me freedoms in my life outside of work. I'd hate to be tied to my email/cell phone 24/7.

[Great-Kazoo]

Yup, pretty much. For me, I don't want to be the CEO of a major corp because of all the work it entails. I'd rather take a lower paying job that allows me freedoms in my life outside of work. I'd hate to be tied to my email/cell phone 24/7.

You're in luck The clown is holding a major hiring program. Downside is you need to relocate to NYC.

[TEAMRICO]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbuJYhX3prc


I thought this was entertaining.

[Clint45]

I say fire the lot of them, let the franchise owners decide if they're willing to hire a unionized bunch, then let the operations manager of each restaurant determine the pay scale for their establishments....

That is actually S.O.P. for many corporate department stores, supermarkets, and restaurants . . . but since it is illegal to fire employees for forming a union to engage in collective bargaining, the tactic is just to close the store and relocate the managers. It makes a fairly powerful anti-union statement to the community when a location attempts to unionize and suddenly a popular store closes overnight and all those jobs are lost.

[Ronin13]

People who complain about minimum wage- boofreakinghoo... We figured it out in the Army after I was in for about a year. I was an E-3, making around $1750/month. We figured in, training not included, that we work an average of 45 hours a week, throw in 2 days a month for staff duty or CQ (24 hour shifts), and break down our monthly pay by hour and it came out to somewhere around $6.80/hr... as of 2009 it was 7.25 on the federal level. Oh and we get to spend nice weekends out in the field and we have strict travel restrictions. Sure we complained that the work conditions sucked, the pay sucked, but even if we were afforded the luxury of going on strike, it would be the absolute last thing we would do. I tell these entitled idiots who refuse to better their lives, learn a skill, stick it out until they get a raise, etc. to STFU and suck it up buttercup. With the exception of those fortunate enough to have been born into an easy life- everyone I know had to work their way up from a much lower position. Raise the minimum wage? Why? So you can earn more for your mediocre work? Piss off!

[Gman]

That is actually S.O.P. for many corporate department stores, supermarkets, and restaurants . . . but since it is illegal to fire employees for forming a union to engage in collective bargaining, the tactic is just to close the store and relocate the managers. It makes a fairly powerful anti-union statement to the community when a location attempts to unionize and suddenly a popular store closes overnight and all those jobs are lost.
Sounds like when the grocery workers at Safeway were wanting to strike when I lived in TX. Safeway warned them not to do it because they couldn't afford to operate at the costs the workers were demanding. They went on strike and Safeway left the state.

It looks like they came back with some business interests later, but those folks that went on strike were out of a job.

[roberth]

What these people do not understand is that an artificial price cannot be introduced into the marketplace without massive repercussions throughout. The business isn't going to "suck it up"; the business is going to reduce operating costs in other areas and raise the price of whatever they are producing and the strikers will end up in a worse position than they are in now.

One of the big reasons China produces alot of our stuff is because the unions in America forced the manufacturers to cut operating costs by moving production overseas, unions ran their own membership out of jobs. If it wasn't for the artifical wages imposed on manufacturers by the unions the United States would still be the world's #1 producer of goods and we wouldn't have these huge trade deficits we have now. Unions helped turn the American economy from a manufacturing economy to a service/debt economy.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Sounds like when the grocery workers at Safeway were wanting to strike when I lived in TX. Safeway warned them not to do it because they couldn't afford to operate at the costs the workers were demanding. They went on strike and Safeway left the state.

It looks like they came back with some business interests later, but those folks that went on strike were out of a job.

Reminds me of 1989 when the UFCW tried to organize workers at Cub Foods here in Colorado Springs. The workers at Cubs by and large didn't want to join the union and the union workers at other stores didn't want to take the time off so the UFCW had to hire non-union workers to hold signs in front of Cub.

[mtik00]

What these people do not understand is that an artificial price cannot be introduced into the marketplace without massive repercussions throughout. The business isn't going to "suck it up"; the business is going to reduce operating costs in other areas and raise the price of whatever they are producing and the strikers will end up in a worse position than they are in now.^this

I was listening to NPR the other day. They interviewed this person. I'm paraphrasing, but:
When I started working at Burger King, I made $8/hr. 8 YEARS later and I'm only making $8.15/hrWTF!??! Why are you still there after 8 years? If you want to be a manager, sure, I get that. But I don't think there's a way to do that job well for 8 years and never get a raise. I'm sorry. Life sucks. Better yourself, or quit bitching.

[Irving]

I was listening to NPR the other day. They interviewed this person. I'm paraphrasing, but:WTF!??! Why are you still there after 8 years? If you want to be a manager, sure, I get that. But I don't think there's a way to do that job well for 8 years and never get a raise. I'm sorry. Life sucks. Better yourself, or quit bitching.

I heard that as well. That guy needed to start delivering pizza 7 years ago. Delivering pizza is an easy $15 an hour and half of it is untaxed. That's of course assuming that you have a vehicle. Same thing being a waiter though, only the pay is better and no car needed.