Cold Hammer Forged Barrels?

[UrbanWolf]

Which AR's come with CHF Barrels now? I know FN's M16A4 do, and PSA sells them.

Does Colt 6490 even have CHF barrel?

[Rabid]

Whats with the CHF obsession these days? Years back CHF barrels were seen as the bottom rung but now you pay a premium for them.

[cofi]

Whats with the CHF obsession these days? Years back CHF barrels were seen as the bottom rung but now you pay a premium for them.


bottom rung? my dd barrel has WELL over 10k through and there is still deep rifling

[Circuits]

Whats with the CHF obsession these days? Years back CHF barrels were seen as the bottom rung but now you pay a premium for them.

In the olden days, there was both a bit of "not made here" snobbery, because the chf tech was used almost exclusively by large european gunmakers, and quite a bit of traditional hidebound thinking regarding "good old American cut rifling". So basically American barrel attitudes were rooted in the past and we didn't like euro-stuff.

CHF produces better barrels at lower cost than traditional bore-and-rifle methods, if a company has the startup capital to invest in the equipment, and enough in the way of operating funds to replace mandrels when needed, or to fund a new mandrel for a new barrel profile and bore when the product line expands.

OP: CMMG, BCM, Daniel Defense, Spike's, Rainier, Centurion and many other places sell CHF barrels now - though almost all of them are made for them by FN, since they were the first to build a CHF facility in the US. The only Colt rifles that get CHF barrels are those made with parts produced by Diemaco/Colt Canada. Colt bought Diemaco specifically to get their hands on a CHF barrel facility, and then import of those barrels was forbidden except for military contracts.

[Rabid]

I get that with every blow of the hammer on the mandrel your compacting and heat treating the steel but does this really offer any advantage over a chrome lined barrel? My experiences with CHF barrels, from Winchester and Tikka, is that they foul much quicker then then a button or cut barrel. I am guessing this is because the the high variance CHFing produces along with the fact that CHFing is the cheapest and quickest way to produce a barrel so little if any lapping to the barrel is done.

[drew890]

I get that with every blow of the hammer on the mandrel your compacting and heat treating the steel but does this really offer any advantage over a chrome lined barrel?...
Many CHF barrels are chrome lined.

[cofi]

Many CHF barrels are chrome lined.

my dd is....

[drew890]

my dd is....
As is my BCM.

[Circuits]

I get that with every blow of the hammer on the mandrel your compacting and heat treating the steel but does this really offer any advantage over a chrome lined barrel? My experiences with CHF barrels, from Winchester and Tikka, is that they foul much quicker then then a button or cut barrel. I am guessing this is because the the high variance CHFing produces along with the fact that CHFing is the cheapest and quickest way to produce a barrel so little if any lapping to the barrel is done.

Not sure what was going on with your unlined winchester and tikka sticks - but it does not match my experiences with CHF in the AR world.

You tend to get far more perfect, and consistent bores from CHF than you ever would from boring a blank, rifling it, chambering it and lapping it. If the mandrel is good, all the barrels that come off it are going to be damn near identical. Several handgun makers have to add imperfections, effectively marking each barrel, in order for slugs fired through them to be able to be told apart forensically.

If a CHF barrel is to be chrome lined (and all the M16/AR-15 ones are) the mandrel used is slightly oversized to allow room for a hard chrome plating step after the barrel comes off the mandrel.

[Rabid]

So thats why CHF barrels are favored in demanding competition shooting sports like benchrest... Oh wait they are not.
Sorry to burst your bubble but CHF barrels have lower tolerances then a cut barrel. You can get a plain jane chrome lined or nitrocarburized (said to be harder then chrome) barrel for half the price and you get more then half the rounds through it compared to a CHF barrel before it is shot out. More rounds down range for less money seems to be the winning ticket to me.

[Circuits]

So thats why CHF barrels are favored in demanding competition shooting sports like benchrest... Oh wait they are not.
Sorry to burst your bubble but CHF barrels have lower tolerances then a cut barrel. You can get a plain jane chrome lined or nitrocarburized (said to be harder then chrome) barrel for half the price and you get more then half the rounds through it compared to a CHF barrel before it is shot out. More rounds down range for less money seems to be the winning ticket to me.

Oh no! You've burst my bubble! <dies>. No one's trying to make you shoot chf - it's your hard earned dollar, you shoot what you want, man.

There are other issues in demanding competition shooting, and a lot more money to be spent in accurizing thereto. To compare commodity barrels of any kind, CHF or bored and buttoned or cut to top-level competition barrels is just silly. Our shitty little consumer engines don't crank out 400hp/liter like a formula 1 engine, either - but they don't cost a cool million each.

Though I admit to some curiosity about both your pricing (CHF costing 2x plain-jane), and as to whether you've ever shot out even one barrel, much less multiples to be worrying about an unspecified cost differential for replacement. I have paid about $100 more for a BCM chf complete upper than the same upper with a non chf, chrome lined barrel, out of a total cost of about $500. Maybe the bare barrels would have been more like $200 for non chf to $300 for chf, but that'd still be only 50% more cost for 2x barrel life. And most folks buy uppers, not barrels, so it will seem even more diluted to them.

[BPTactical]

The CHF process compacts the granular structure of the steel, especially at the bore where the hammering forces are the most concentrated. It also work hardens the steel and I can notice the difference when machining it.

[cofi]

Though I admit to some curiosity about both your pricing (CHF costing 2x plain-jane), and as to whether you've ever shot out even one barrel, much less multiples to be worrying about an unspecified cost differential for replacement. I have paid about $100 more for a BCM chf complete upper than the same upper with a non chf, chrome lined barrel, out of a total cost of about $500. Maybe the bare barrels would have been more like $200 for non chf to $300 for chf, but that'd still be only 50% more cost for 2x barrel life. And most folks buy uppers, not barrels, so it will seem even more diluted to them.

I agree plus if your comparing high end stainless barrels vs high end chf barrels there is no cost difference

Do you want a dead nuts accurate 1/4moa stainless lothar walther barrel with a >10000 round service life(probably way less if your shooting benchrest)

Or a 1 moa chf barrel that's going to last <20000+

The neat thing about our hobby is that there both good choices for different people

[Joe_K]

Barrels on Mil issued M-16A4 rifles and M-4/ M4A1 carbines produced by Colt and FN are all non CHF. All Military issued barrels are rated at 6-8k rounds before they need swapped, however I have never seen a USMC issued rifle or carbine being rebarrelled. Anyone with any different experiences? Im also pretty certain that Mil contract SCARs are using CHF barrels. A CHF barrel will also be many times more smooth and concentric in all dimensions than a traditional cut rifled barrel.

[TheBelly]

Barrels on Mil issued M-16A4 rifles and M-4/ M4A1 carbines produced by Colt and FN are all non CHF. All Military issued barrels are rated at 6-8k rounds before they need swapped, however I have never seen a USMC issued rifle or carbine being rebarrelled. Anyone with any different experiences? Im also pretty certain that Mil contract SCARs are using CHF barrels. A CHF barrel will also be many times more smooth and concentric in all dimensions than a traditional cut rifled barrel.

Live seen twelve M4s get rebarreled. This was during the depot level checks after a deployment. 12 out of 3000 got changed.

Generally, if they fail gauge, they get a new barrel.

this is all just my experience.

[Joe_K]

What service branch and unit? Just curious. We had an M- 4A1 that had over 50k rounds through one barrel. It was basically a smoothbore but our unit couldnt get replacement barrels, Uppers, or complete A-1's this was during 08'.

[Rabid]

You tend to get far more perfect, and consistent bores from CHF than you ever would from boring a blank, rifling it, chambering it and lapping it. If the mandrel is good, all the barrels that come off it are going to be damn near identical.
I was responding to that statement, if they are so much more perfect why are they not used for match? FYI You still have to bore a blank, rifle it, chamber it and contour it for any style of rifling. Yes i am talking about a bare barrel.


I agree plus if your comparing high end stainless barrels vs high end chf barrels there is no cost difference

Do you want a dead nuts accurate 1/4moa stainless lothar walther barrel with a >10000 round service life(probably way less if your shooting benchrest)

Or a 1 moa chf barrel that's going to last <20000+

The neat thing about our hobby is that there both good choices for different people
Do you both really think you get twice the life out of a CHF barrel? That would be a gigantic selling point but you dont hear those claims because its not true. At 10k+ round count your throat is going to be pretty eroded and your not going to get 1 moa.

[Joe_K]

I have not heard of a non chrome lined CHF barrel. Correct me if Im wrong but arent most if not all national match rifles non chrome lined? Also Read the review of the filthy 14 bcm middy that shot 14 k. CHF is great for guys who only require 3 moa or under. Cut rifling probably does better for match grade competition types who want gnats ass moa but dont care if they olny get 1-3 k out of one barrel. Cut rifling can be made very smooth with lapping honing and other post rifling techniques but fir a large volume barrel that will last 1.5 x plus and will not be expected to be used as a target rifle at camp perry imho you cant do wrong going the CHF route.

[TheBelly]

What service branch and unit? Just curious. We had an M- 4A1 that had over 50k rounds through one barrel. It was basically a smoothbore but our unit couldnt get replacement barrels, Uppers, or complete A-1's this was during 08'.

Army. Infantry brigade.