Ban the Pladge of Allegiance

[brokenscout]

http://news.msn.com/us/mass-court-hears-pledge-of-allegiance-challenge

[T-Giv]

Sadly I'm not surprised. That sure is a hunk of bullshit though!

[Great-Kazoo]

I agree they should Ban the Pledge.
While they are at it, remove sex education, ESL, school lunches, same sex indoctrination , ZERO TOLERANCE , ban on firearms safety, SPORTS etc. ALL these programs do is bloat the system, raise taxes etc.

In today's PC non-competitive, each side gets a point, does sports still have a legit place within the education system. THE INSURANCE COVERAGE alone must be costing kids who want to learn , access to books, and equipment that could future their education.
ESL,, SPEAK THE COUNTRY'S YOU RESIDE IN LANGUAGE, OR LEARN IT BEFORE YOU ILLEGALLY RELOCATE. Same for everything else.
THE SCHOOLS should EDUCATE, not pander or coddle, it's students and whiny useless selfish parents.

[trlcavscout]

I am offended and really pissed off that my kids have to learn Spanish in elementary school! How do I get that banned? Oh wait we live in colorado.

[Irving]

I was happy to learn that my daughter is reciting the pledge every day in school. I thought this was something that went by the way side a long time ago.

[Great-Kazoo]

I was happy to learn that my daughter is reciting the pledge every day in school. I thought this was something that went by the way side a long time ago.

Common Sense from educators went by the wayside. HEY, THAT CLOUD LOOKS LIKE A GUN, EXPEL EVERYONE, NOW ! ! !

[kawiracer14]

I am offended and really pissed off that my kids have to learn Spanish in elementary school! How do I get that banned? Oh wait we live in colorado.

Your kids might like it when they get into a better college or get an extra 10 grand a year at a job because they speak two languages though...

[Rucker61]

I am offended and really pissed off that my kids have to learn Spanish in elementary school! How do I get that banned? Oh wait we live in colorado.

Seriously? The benefits to the brain of learning a second language, any language, are well documented. My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.

[Great-Kazoo]

Your kids might like it when they get into a better college or get an extra 10 grand a year at a job because they speak two languages though...


Seriously? The benefits to the brain of learning a second language, any language, are well documented. My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.


HE'S talking mandatory spanish because 50% [ easy] are unable to SPEAK ENGLISH. SO the education system insist the country where English is the primary language ( for now) students learn a different one. Because assimilating in to American culture will never happen.

Myself ,ANY opportunity to learn another language is beneficial in many ways. However don't do it for PC reasons.

[asmo]

the "under God" portion wasnt added until 1954. Before that it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.

[asmo]

My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.

I may make that my new signature..

[hatidua]

My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.

And, sadly, their fluency in Latin won't do squat for them if they do move to Latin America...

[bellavite1]

And, sadly, their fluency in Latin won't do squat for them if they do move to Latin America...

But it helps with cool sig lines![Coffee]

[Colorado_Outback]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.

Agreed.
I recited the old version all through middle and highschool. Once in 7th grade a substitute tried to call me out for reciting it wrong, it was funny watching her try to backpedal.

[bellavite1]

the "under God" portion wasnt added until 1954. Before that it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.

Frankly, even I don't have a problem with the "under God" version of the pledge.
It is, in my view, God, any God, be it Christ, Allah, Budda or as an Atheist, yourself.
It involves whoever or whatever you have most sacred in the equation, nothing wrong with that.

BTW, 30 more posts...[Muaha]

[PugnacAutMortem]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a second...(not trying to piss anyone off, just more posing this question for discussion purposes):

Is it possible to love America and being an American...without wanting to "pledge allegiance"? It could seem statist to pledge allegiance to a country unless you are in the military.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

[muddywings]

the "under God" portion wasnt added until 1954. Before that it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.

+2

[trlcavscout]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a second...(not trying to piss anyone off, just more posing this question for discussion purposes):

Is it possible to love America and being an American...without wanting to "pledge allegiance"? It could seem statist to pledge allegiance to a country unless you are in the military.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

Hey you better kneel down and love mother Russia! Such talk will get you hauled off in the middle of the night. We have seen the road the youth take when allowing them follow the low road, do you want the US to continue down that path?

[trlcavscout]

Seriously? The benefits to the brain of learning a second language, any language, are well documented. My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.

Yes I am fucking serious! If my kids learn to speak German, french what ever by choice that is fine by me. I am German/Irish. But to force my 5 year old to learn Spanish because some fucktard illegal immigrant refuses to learn and teach their kid English is fucked up! If their kid can't communicate with others at the U.S. public school they need to adapt not the other way around.

[UrbanWolf]

Can't talk about God in school, can't talk about guns, can't talk about illegal immirgants... But we can talk about butt sex and smoking drugs...Just great.

[Kraven251]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a second...(not trying to piss anyone off, just more posing this question for discussion purposes):

Is it possible to love America and being an American...without wanting to "pledge allegiance"? It could seem statist to pledge allegiance to a country unless you are in the military.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts.

We are all the militia.

[ZERO THEORY]

the "under God" portion wasnt added until 1954. Before that it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.

Bang on, mate. The indoctrination of Abrahamic religion is as bad as that of the liberal agenda in my opinion. However, I am all for the original pledge.

[Inconel710]

Fun facts about the history of the Pledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance). It was written by Frances Bellamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy) to sell US flags to schools in the 1890s. He was also a Christian Socialist and a Nationalist. I'm OK, with my kid saying the pledge, but never forget it is a form of indoctrination. It's still up to us to ensure the kids get the indoctrination we approve of (love of country versus blind obedience).

[mtnhack]

the "under God" portion wasnt added until 1954. Before that it read: "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all." I have no problem with going back to that. God doesn't belong in the pledge. The pledge still belongs in school.amen

[Squeeze]

HE'S talking mandatory spanish because 50% [ easy] are unable to SPEAK ENGLISH. SO the education system insist the country where English is the primary language ( for now) students learn a different one. Because assimilating in to American culture will never happen.

Myself ,ANY opportunity to learn another language is beneficial in many ways. However don't do it for PC reasons.

^^^This.

[ZERO THEORY]

Fun facts about the history of the Pledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance). It was written by Frances Bellamy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy) to sell US flags to schools in the 1890s. He was also a Christian Socialist and a Nationalist. I'm OK, with my kid saying the pledge, but never forget it is a form of indoctrination. It's still up to us to ensure the kids get the indoctrination we approve of (love of country versus blind obedience).

This is an excellent point, although I don't find the pledge to be jingoist or nationalist, so I'm good with it, sans religious declarations.

[centrarchidae]

Better you than me. I wouldn't trust any indoctrination instrument written by a socialist.


This is an excellent point, although I don't find the pledge to be jingoist or nationalist, so I'm good with it, sans religious declarations.

[Gmans-Wife]

Allow me to play devil's advocate for a second...(not trying to piss anyone off, just more posing this question for discussion purposes):

Is it possible to love America and being an American...without wanting to "pledge allegiance"? It could seem statist to pledge allegiance to a country unless you are in the military.

Just curious about everyone's thoughts. To become a citizen I had to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands etc. If that is required to become a citizen, why shouldn't people born as citizens state the pledge as well. To me, If you really want to be a citizen of a country, you should have allegiance to it. Not blind allegiance to the government. Allegiance, in the case of the USA, to the republic, which includes the constitution and it's amendments, which the line "with liberty and justice for all" references.

[Gman]

I don't have a problem with "under God". It's the version we used as I was growing up. I get the feeling that some folks want to revise the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to remove any references of a creator or God. Separation of church and state has nothing to do with the absolute removal of any reference that may or may not be religious that may offend an individual. Unless the state is forming or endorsing a specific religion, I'm fine with it.

It's part of our history. Get over yourselves. We have freedom of expression and that means that you don't have a freedom from possibly being offended. Some folks are just looking for ways to be offended.

You are not required to say the pledge, so if you don't agree with it, don't participate.

[Great-Kazoo]

To become a citizen I had to pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands etc. If that is required to become a citizen, why shouldn't people born as citizens state the pledge as well. To me, If you really want to be a citizen of a country, you should have allegiance to it. Not blind allegiance to the government. Allegiance, in the case of the USA, to the republic, which includes the constitution and it's amendments, which the line "with liberty and justice for all" references.

WELL SAID and WELCOME TO THE FORUM

[speedysst]

The issue is that it's EXPECTED that the second language is Spanish. Latin is awesome and I have recently been learning Afrikaans - because I can.

Seriously? The benefits to the brain of learning a second language, any language, are well documented. My kids will be learning Latin this year, and we don't live anywhere near Latin American.

[ZERO THEORY]

I don't have a problem with "under God". It's the version we used as I was growing up. I get the feeling that some folks want to revise the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to remove any references of a creator or God. Separation of church and state has nothing to do with the absolute removal of any reference that may or may not be religious that may offend an individual. Unless the state is forming or endorsing a specific religion, I'm fine with it.

It's part of our history. Get over yourselves. We have freedom of expression and that means that you don't have a freedom from possibly being offended. Some folks are just looking for ways to be offended.

You are not required to say the pledge, so if you don't agree with it, don't participate.

Whoa...it has nothing to do with being offended; I'm not an Obama voter or a Boulder resident. I also understand that it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Having said that, the history of Abrahamic religion in this country is seriously played up. Especially considering the less-than-favorable position taken by most of the founding fathers.

But freedom of religion ensures the secular freedom as much as the divine. So having to pledge allegiance to my nation under the predication that it's by God's will? No thanks.

[Gmans-Wife]

But freedom of religion ensures the secular freedom as much as the divine. So having to pledge allegiance to my nation under the predication that it's by God's will? No thanks. You can always chose to exclude the under God, you can even chose to not pledge your allegiance to the country. That is the beauty of this country.

However, throughout my life I have many friends who follow "alternate" religions, their argument is often one of offence. They assume the God referenced is the Christian God and become offended by it. I know for myself, when this same issue came up years ago I debated the "under God" part of the pledge, with myself and some friends. After talking through it and getting several view points, I came to the conclusion that the term god is generic enough that if I wanted to chose the 'god of the cell phone' as my god, "under God" could still apply. Now admittedly "the god of the cell phone" is rather silly choice, but to me it is a good way to bring this subject into perspective.

An interesting discussion on the History of the Pledge: http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm

[davsel]

Whoa...it has nothing to do with being offended; I'm not an Obama voter or a Boulder resident. I also understand that it's freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Having said that, the history of Abrahamic religion in this country is seriously played up. Especially considering the less-than-favorable position taken by most of the founding fathers.

But freedom of religion ensures the secular freedom as much as the divine. So having to pledge allegiance to my nation under the predication that it's by God's will? No thanks.

Horse Shit