M1 Garand stuff (long read)

[BlasterBob]

If LONG reads bore you, STOP here and go to another thread.!!

Well, until just recently I had thought that I knew just a little tiny bit more about the operation of M1 Garands than most of the average M1 Garand owners. I was sure wrong with that thought. Found that even though I attended the Small Arms Repair School at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD, (some years ago) and worked on the Garands a lot, I found some do and don't type stuff that I was never taught or even thought of. Got some information out of the CMP furnished book entitled "U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, M1", that accompanies each Garand that they sell.
1. They have indicated that although most of the "original" U.S. government-issue parts for the Garand are readily interchangeable, they say that regardless of the origin of the parts, DO NOT replace the bolt or firing pin unless you have the knowledge and gauges to check that all critical dimensions remain within tolerances or we can create a potentially hazardous condition. Example a bolt that does not fully close or a firing pin just a tad too lengthy.

2. When closing a latched open bolt on an EMPTY chamber, we are to pull the operating rod back slightly and with the right thumb depress the follower (while still holding the operating rod with the little finger on the right hand and then allow the bolt to close GENTLY. When the chamber is empty, easing the bolt forward will avoid unnecessary battering. In basic training and in the repair school, we were NEVER told to ease the bolts forward - we always let them slam shut and to just make damn sure your thumb is out of the way..

3. In most military semi-automatic rifles including the M1 Garand, the firing pin may leave a light mark ("dimple") on primers as the cartridge is chambered. Such dimpling is usually insufficient to fire a primer providing the bolt and firing pin and other parts conform to prescribed design dimensions. Since non-military ammo with softer primers reduce the margin of safety they will require the shooter to use greater caution especially when using reloaded ammo with a possible high primer. Even heavy chamber fouling may cause dangerous conditions if firing OTHER THAN military ammo.

4. When loading the cartridge CLIP, a right hand shooter should load the cartridges so that the top cartridge (one to be chambered first) should be on the right side of the column. A left hand shooter should load so the first cartridge to be chambered should be on the top left side. Note, that point does sound very familiar.

Anything else to add to the above or dispute something, have at it.[blaster]

[O2HeN2]

When the chamber is empty, easing the bolt forward will avoid unnecessary battering.
That's true for ANY autoloader. The loading of the round cushions the closing of the slide/bolt/whatever. Always lower the slide/bolt/whatever on an empty chamber, but always let it close under it's own power when loading a round (that's how it operates when you're shooing, after all).

O2

[BlasterBob]

Always lower the slide/bolt/whatever on an empty chamber, but always let it close under it's own power when loading a round (that's how it operates when you're shooing, after all).

O2 Correct!! I have seen many occasions where a shooter of an auto loader will ease the bolt closed and then wonder why the firearm is not firing. [blaster]

[Aloha_Shooter]

I knew points 1-3 but where does point 4 come from and what's the thinking behind that? I don't remember seeing any difference but believe my factory loaded clips all have the first round loaded (i.e., top round in the clip when put in the Garand) on the left side. I remember scuttlebutt on the CMP forums that said they had 7th-round loading problems with clips loaded first-round-right during early development but think they fixed that.

[ray1970]

Point four does seen a bit silly. Since I am a right handed shooter, if I had a clip loaded for a lefty does that mean I can't use it?

[BlasterBob]

Point four does seen a bit silly. Since I am a right handed shooter, if I had a clip loaded for a lefty does that mean I can't use it?

Yes, don't use it, I'll gladly take it especially if it contains eight loaded rounds.

I believe a right hand shooter, when inserting the clip, might possibly find it just a little easier to shove the loaded clip down with perhaps a little more leverage if that top ctg is on the right side.
The book indicates that the left handed shooter, if he/she has the top ctg on the left side, will reduce the risk of being cut by the exposed lip of the clip when loading with the left hand.
This book does advise that the ctgs will feed equally well from either side.

[Inconel710]

On point 4 - Roy Baumgardner writes in Precision Shooting With The M1 Garand:

In some of the very early rifles that were produced as we entered WWII, some short cuts were made to the inside of the receiver that would later result in what became known as the seventh round jam. This was a case in which the rifle sometimes failed to feed the seventh round. Sometimes it even tossed the seventh round clear out of the rifle. An investigation was started, and it was soon found that if the first round loaded into the eight round clip was placed on the opposite side of the clip as it was filled, the jam went away.

But he never explains which side was the opposite side! Of more importance, IMHO, is his advice on pushing the clip in with the thumb in front of the clip, near the shoulder of the round to prevent jams caused by loose tolerances in the follower. BTW, that book has tons of tips on accurizing the Garand!

[BlasterBob]

And speaking of Garands, I came real close to buying one recently but missed out on that buy. If someone is aware of a NICE Garand that someone is thinking about getting rid of, I'd like to get one to use up some of my military .30/06 ammo in. [blaster]

[BPTactical]

On point 4 - Roy Baumgardner writes in Precision Shooting With The M1 Garand:


But he never explains which side was the opposite side! Of more importance, IMHO, is his advice on pushing the clip in with the thumb in front of the clip, near the shoulder of the round to prevent jams caused by loose tolerances in the follower. BTW, that book has tons of tips on accurizing the Garand!

Right side = 1st round

[Great-Kazoo]

Right side = 1st round

driver or passenger side?

[BlasterBob]

Sounds like it'd be the "passenger side"

[BPTactical]

driver or passenger side?

Depends on what side of the pond the rifle is I guess...



Yes, the passenger side.

[BlasterBob]

Depends on what side of the pond the rifle is I guess...
Yes, the passenger side.

Yes, the correct side.[Beer]

[jmg8550]

BlasterBob, what are you looking to spend? There is a nice M1 here for $1300.

[BlasterBob]

BlasterBob, what are you looking to spend? There is a nice M1 here for $1300.

Wow, $1300 is kinda out of my price range, actually way out of MY range. I'd like to get a shooter Garand in nice condition. The CMP still has some for around $600 - 700 but there is a four to six month wait and then you don't know what you will be receiving condition wise. Thanks!

[ben4372]

A bit of that sound familiar. The firing bit explains why Ruger doesn't sell firing pins for the mini-14. They only let the factory replace them. Everyone needs two M1s. Good post thanks.

[SideShow Bob]

As far as "First Round" is concerned, is this the first round loaded into the clip before inserting into a rifle? Or the first round that will be loaded into the chamber ie the last round that gets loaded into clip before inserting into a rifle ?

[BPTactical]

First round into the chamber Bobbo.

[BlasterBob]

the first round that will be loaded into the chamber ie the last round that gets loaded into clip before inserting into a rifle ?

Yes, first round to enter the chamber is the last one that was loaded in the clip. This one should/could be sitting on the right side. The first cartridge loaded into the empty clip would then be started on the LEFT side.

[wctriumph]

Actually, it does not matter which one was loaded into the clip first or last, the full clip will has no direction except the pointy end of the cartridge should point to the front of the rifle and the clip should be at the rear of the magazine. If you load the first round into the clip on the left, the last round will be on the right and if you flip the clip over, it retains the same orientation. And the same holds true if you load the first round on the right, the last round will be on the left. The rifle does not care as long as you load it and shoot it. M1's want to be shot! Get one and go shooting. If you want to shoot up in the NorCO area, I'll grab mine and go with you.

[BlasterBob]

Right, it makes no difference in the chambering of the first round but it is said that how the FIRST round to be chambered may at least make some difference to the thumb placement for a right hand or left hand shooter. In U.S. Army basic training in 1955, our Instructers insisted the first round chambered MUST always be on the top right side of the clip. Rather than piss them off, we just complied and didn't have to be worried about getting put on some shithouse detail.

[wctriumph]

I am right handed and I load so the round on top is on then right as it is easier for me to load the rifle that way, just as the army taught. In any case, it just felt right to load my clips and rifle that way. My dad and my uncle told me that back then the military INSISTED that all shooting be done right handed and that was the way all soldiers were trained to shoot.

[BlasterBob]

I am right handed and I load so the round on top is on then right as it is easier for me to load the rifle that way, just as the army taught. In any case, it just felt right to load my clips and rifle that way. My dad and my uncle told me that back then the military INSISTED that all shooting be done right handed and that was the way all soldiers were trained to shoot.

Yeah wct,, back in those old days (mid 50's), while we were on the KD rifle range, if any of us wore ear plugs, a wad of cotton or even cigarette filters in our ears to help quiet down the sound of Garand fire, we were quickly ordered to remove them immediately and the "offenders" were called a Candyass, chicken shit for just trying to protect our hearing. Badass Cadre back in those times.