Anyone done any Massad Ayoob Training?

[funkymonkey1111]

He's putting on his "MAG 40" course in NW Arkansas in mid October and I was thinking about making a road trip. That's about as close as he's going to be to Colorado for the foreseeable future. I've always enjoyed his articles and interviews and was just wondering if anyone had done any of his classes and their experiences.

[spleify]

Link?

[funkymonkey1111]

Looking at the "MAG 40"

http://massadayoobgroup.com/?page_id=7

[spleify]

The MAG20 looks interesting. I'm not a big fan of the fact you need to take a written exam for the MAG40

[spleify]

He is an incredibly intelligent man but is absolutely DREADFUL to listen to

[SuperiorDG]

That is a road trip.

[MarkCO]

He is an incredibly intelligent man but is absolutely DREADFUL to listen to

True. I much prefer him one-on-one, or reading his writings. In the class format, while you will learn, I can not recommend him.

[asmo]

He is an incredibly intelligent man but is absolutely DREADFUL to listen to

I spent 8 hours with him once.. 6 hours of lecture. 2 hours at dinner.

After 2 hours of the lecture I was ready to stab myself in the head with a fork. He is WAY too paranoid and he drones on and on about things for way too long. He could have covered the 6 hours of lecture (in reality it was 4.5 - since there was lunch where he told stories) in about 45 minutes.

Dinner was another matter. Incredibly nice, very well read and well spoken, he knows what he believes and he can clearly articulate why. Great guy to talk to.

Never shot with him.

[Great-Kazoo]

He is an incredibly intelligent man but is absolutely DREADFUL to listen to

This, however anytime you can attend / afford a good class, take it. I attended the one he put on right after columbine. His ramblings didn't bother me to much. Then again i had a head cold from hell.

[funkymonkey1111]

to the extent those that don't care for his approach, do you suggest alternatives? It seems like every time you turn around there's someone openining a training program.

[MarkCO]

I've taught a lot of classes, alongside some of the "big names" and so I tend to be pretty picky about who I will take a class from. Here is a very short list of criteria I use.

1. Does the instructor have integrity? Would I leave them alone in my home for a few days?
2. Can the instructor teach? There has to be something which illustrates he understands the various learning styles. Maybe only a phone call gets you this.
3. Is the instructor a student? I won't go to an instructor who does not take classes himself and is open to improvement and learning.
4. Is the instructor rigid as to technique, style? If his path is the only path, he is on the wrong path.

After that, set your goals and evaluate who is able to help you reach those goals. If an instructor won't spend 10 to 15 minutes with you on the phone or via email to help you interview him, then move on.

I won't say who, but I was at a match and a "Top Shot" contestant walks over to my little group. He starts to chat me up trying to get me to sign up for his next class. After a few minutes of letting him ramble, I asked him why I should take a class from him when I just beat him by 30 places in the match. He literally said not one more word and went to the next group. Not the nicest thing I have done, but the guy could not teach, and it was clear. A good teacher would have been able to answer that question and may have gotten a student or two out of the group if he had answered well.

A person can write a great technical report, but it will have some spelling errors and typos in it. He needs someone to proof that report to make it better, even if they do not understand the content. That is the most basic. This is where most firearms instructors are at.

You can drive a car (I assume) home perfectly fine, but those skills won't translate to a SCCA course. You need someone to explain apex, braking when to pick up the throttle etc. and then watch you do it and correct. That is an intermediate level. This is where we hope most firearms instructors are at, but few are.

Once we pass there, it really comes down to coaching. The coach studies you, understands you and presses you to achieve a higher level of performance. The drills are tailored to you and then mental game is part of the process. He understands how to turn your down talk into booster talk and how to create small successes so you will be able to build upon them.

If you can narrow down your goals and reasons for wanting to take a course, you might get some good names to checkout.

Not even knowing that, Seeklander, Vogel, Bragg are some names that pass muster for me.

[MarkCO]

Here is a good thread that Mick put a lot of good info into, as well as some others: http://www.ar-15.co/threads/112503-Being-a-Good-Student-Selecting-and-attending-training