View Full Version : Drugs Inc, Colorado.
Rooskibar03
09-15-2013, 19:25
On national geographic right now. Call me naive, I had not idea we had such a drug scene going on. It's nice to see the harmless pot laws recently passes have escalated the crips/blood war as they now are pushed out of the dope biz and into hard stuff by the influx of legal MJ.
One more reason to stay the hell out of Denver.
Great-Kazoo
09-15-2013, 19:33
The C/B ms13, norteno's , this gang, that gang, have always been major player's in the drug trade. They have been muling Coke, heroin, meth, and weed (pocket change) for decades. They have not been PUSHED out of the weed biz, just not as "involved" as they use to be.
There was a law suit filed by the ACLU, on behalf of persons of color years ago, because the CSP "profiled" tinted windowed, late night, out of state plates, luxury cars being driven by blacks and hispanics. The ACLU won the case, even though CSP and other LE groups along the I -70, 25 and 80 corridor , had a 95% (approx) arrest AND conviction rate, go figure.
Rooskibar03
09-15-2013, 19:39
I jhad no clue. Not what comes to minds when I think Denver. Federal and Exposition isn't that far away from us,
Great-Kazoo
09-15-2013, 21:40
I jhad no clue. Not what comes to minds when I think Denver. Federal and Exposition isn't that far away from us,
Aurora is worse, federal is chicano with some overlapping asian's. Quick trivia......... When hard core violent felons who skipped out of CA are found, 85% of them were picked up in the metro area.
lowspeed_highdrag
09-15-2013, 22:06
Norteno, Sureno, 18th St, NSL. These are your most common drug trafficking gangs in No CO right now. Most are working in concert with the cartels, El Eme, and La Nuestra Familia. With the combination of white gangs/biker gangs and mexican gangs, we really get a double whammy of drug trafficking through Weld. Its something else, and downright scary when you see the full scale of it all.
More propaganda about why marijuana needs to be illegal.
Don't forget that everything is more dramatic for television. I remember my cousin telling me about an episode of Gangland where they said that Denver had some of the worse gangs ever. I reminded him that EVERY episode says, and they wouldn't run an episode about a bunch of gangs that aren't that bad.
BPTactical
09-16-2013, 05:51
The C/B ms13, norteno's , this gang, that gang, have always been major player's in the drug trade. They have been muling Coke, heroin, meth, and weed (pocket change) for decades. They have not been PUSHED out of the weed biz, just not as "involved" as they use to be.
There was a law suit filed by the ACLU, on behalf of persons of color years ago, because the CSP "profiled" tinted windowed, late night, out of state plates, luxury cars being driven by blacks and hispanics. The ACLU won the case, even though CSP and other LE groups along the I -70, 25 and 80 corridor , had a 95% (approx) arrest AND conviction rate, go figure.
I believe that program was Operation Desert Snow. I ran into a few officers at Camp George West that were training for it and one mentioned it was quite successful.
Gee, I am so proud of my native state[Bang]
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 06:27
]Don't forget that everything is more dramatic for television[/B]. I remember my cousin telling me about an episode of Gangland where they said that Denver had some of the worse gangs ever. I reminded him that EVERY episode says, and they wouldn't run an episode about a bunch of gangs that aren't that bad.
You mean the stories on CO's gun culture and weapons of death [ Bowling for Columbine] were not factual?
rockhound
09-16-2013, 07:34
Call me when you have some real news, if you think you can open up the borders to all the illegals and not get their criminals with them you are crazy, it is bad enough we have our own gangs, but now we import them, actually have been for decades, in some areas the mexican cartel gangs are running the black gangs off their territory,
The gangs are everywhere, trick for the average citizen is staying out of their way, i have a bil that is on the gang unit for dpd, he just moved out of denver because of it and standard policy is no uniforms worn home so you neighbors cant identify you as a cop
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-16-2013, 07:44
What was the actual effect of the ACLU winning the lawsuit? Did CSP have to stop "profiling" (and how do you enforce that?), or did they just have to pay money?
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 07:52
What was the actual effect of the ACLU winning the lawsuit? Did CSP have to stop "profiling" (and how do you enforce that?), or did they just have to pay money?
both. i have a story about a CSP who pulled me over and the interaction was interesting. Just believe any traffic stops are handled differently . This way if there is contrband, the case does not get tossed on a "profiling" charge.
The C/B ms13, norteno's , this gang, that gang, have always been major player's in the drug trade. They have been muling Coke, heroin, meth, and weed (pocket change) for decades. They have not been PUSHED out of the weed biz, just not as "involved" as they use to be.
There was a law suit filed by the ACLU, on behalf of persons of color years ago, because the CSP "profiled" tinted windowed, late night, out of state plates, luxury cars being driven by blacks and hispanics. The ACLU won the case, even though CSP and other LE groups along the I -70, 25 and 80 corridor , had a 95% (approx) arrest AND conviction rate, go figure.
So in other words they weren't doing anything illegal to be pulled over. With all do respect Jim, that's bullshit. And how did they know their race if the windows were tinted?
UrbanWolf
09-16-2013, 08:00
So in other words they weren't doing anything illegal to be pulled over. With all do respect Jim, that's bullshit. And how did they know their race if the windows were tinted?
Maybe anyone looks dark skinned behind a tinted window?
Maybe anyone looks dark skinned behind a tinted window?
I guess that would still be bullshit. How many guys on this board would like to be pulled over for "not" committing a crime?
Maybe they could setup checkpoints at the CO/WY border to check for 30 rounders.
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 08:14
I guess that would still be bullshit. How many guys on this board would like to be pulled over for "not" committing a crime?
Its happened to me before.. and I'm white! (GASP)
Its happened to me before.. and I'm white! (GASP)
That's bullshit too. Being pulled over for not breaking the law in any case is a bs.
hurley842002
09-16-2013, 08:33
Here we go again, wouldn't want to have a conversation about drugs and the POS gang members who sling them, without bringing race into it, now would we?
Here we go again, wouldn't want to have a conversation about drugs and the POS gang members who sling them, without bringing race into it, now would we?
I was responding to a post about the CSP pulling over cars based on a certain criteria rather than for committing a crime. Your feathers didn't get ruffled until I said that was BS
hurley842002
09-16-2013, 08:57
I was responding to a post about the CSP pulling over cars based on a certain criteria rather than for committing a crime. Your feathers didn't get ruffled until I said that was BS
Glad you know exactly when my feathers got ruffled, IF they were in fact ruffled.
Glad you know exactly when my feathers got ruffled, IF they were in fact ruffled.
If they didn't, then I apologize. Your post indicated that you were upset.
Aloha_Shooter
09-16-2013, 09:08
That's bullshit too. Being pulled over for not breaking the law in any case is a bs.
Can we be any more sensitive? Lighten up, Francis. Don't you think a luxury car with heavily tinted windows and out-of-state plates driving around in the middle of the night isn't an indicator? Yes, I know there are lots of military working shifts at Buckley but I think the cops can tell they're military or not as soon as the window comes down (and very few airmen I know drive around with heavily tinted windows, especially at night).
I don't know what the specific instructions were in Operation Desert Snow but would guess they focused more on the vehicle and driving style. It just happens there were a larger percentage of blacks and Hispanics picked up simply because there are a much higher percentage of them involved in that activity in that area. The ACLU loves to distort self-selection bias on the part of perpetrators as racial discrimination on the part of PD.
A more telling statistic would be how stops did the PD perform on perfectly innocent people? That would tell you just how much of a false trigger is being provided by the profile and how much innocent people are being victimized.
Sorry, I have no problem with police using a behavior profile with low false positives to pick up miscreants before someone innocent gets hurt.
UrbanWolf
09-16-2013, 09:41
I guess that would still be bullshit. How many guys on this board would like to be pulled over for "not" committing a crime?
I got pulled over once for driving slow in a foggy day...
StagLefty
09-16-2013, 09:42
IN a foggy day is legal !!! [facepalm]
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 09:54
That's bullshit too. Being pulled over for not breaking the law in any case is a bs.
I agree, but everything isn't the racial travesty that you make it out to be.
I think your title needs to be DATZ RACIST!
Can we be any more sensitive? Lighten up, Francis. Don't you think a luxury car with heavily tinted windows and out-of-state plates driving around in the middle of the night isn't an indicator? Yes, I know there are lots of military working shifts at Buckley but I think the cops can tell they're military or not as soon as the window comes down (and very few airmen I know drive around with heavily tinted windows, especially at night).
I don't know what the specific instructions were in Operation Desert Snow but would guess they focused more on the vehicle and driving style. It just happens there were a larger percentage of blacks and Hispanics picked up simply because there are a much higher percentage of them involved in that activity in that area. The ACLU loves to distort self-selection bias on the part of perpetrators as racial discrimination on the part of PD.
A more telling statistic would be how stops did the PD perform on perfectly innocent people? That would tell you just how much of a false trigger is being provided by the profile and how much innocent people are being victimized.
Sorry, I have no problem with police using a behavior profile with low false positives to pick up miscreants before someone innocent gets hurt.
Let me preface my response to you but first stating that I don't put much weight in anything you say. Second, I'm very sensitive about about my rights being infringed upon. Pulling someone over based on their type of vehicle or race is bullshit period. What if it's a rental car? You may not have a problem with "low false positives", but the courts do. What if the governor decided to issue an edict pulling everyone over as they crossed the state line looking for "illegal" mags as long as they were in a pickup with an NRA sticker on the vehicle? Your either breaking the law or your not. Pulling someone over to fish for a crime is BS. If the windows are illegally tinted...sure. But an out of state luxury vehicle at night with a black or Hispanic driving is bullshit plain and simple. Maybe you should focus all that energy into fighting for our 2A rights Francis.
I agree, but everything isn't the racial travesty that you make it out to be.
I think your title needs to be DATZ RACIST!
Why don't you find another example of me making something out to be a racial travesty?
Why don't you find another example of me making something out to be a racial travesty?
And I'll give you $10 bucks for everytime I called someone a racist.
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 10:10
Why don't you find another example of me making something out to be a racial travesty?
LOL.
It would be my pleasure, but unfortuantely I'm working and dont have time to sort through all the drivel you have posted here.
I never said you called anyone a racist, I said you turn the littlest thing into a racial travesty.
LOL.
It would be my pleasure, but unfortuantely I'm working and dont have time to sort through all the drivel you have posted here.
Consider it an open offer. $10 for every example of me calling someone a racist. And don't worry. I'll remind you. If you knew me you'd know I don't give a crap what you are. I am however short tempered when it comes to hypocrisy. It's ok to get bent out of shape when someone wants to take our guns, but if any of our other rights are violated you seem to be ok with that. I'll let you get back to flipping burgers.
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 10:15
LOL.
I never said you called anyone a racist, I said you turn the littlest thing into a racial travesty.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 10:41
So in other words they weren't doing anything illegal to be pulled over. With all do respect Jim, that's bullshit. And how did they know their race if the windows were tinted?
Call aclu if you have an issue
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-16-2013, 10:41
Second, I'm very sensitive about about my rights being infringed upon. Pulling someone over based on their type of vehicle or race is bullshit period. What if it's a rental car?
If I may interrupt the pissing match, going back, it didn't sound like these were just checks exclusively on type of vehicle or race.
This is what I got:
If the windows are illegally tinted...sure.
Sounded like the windows fit a "profile" - but they are still illegal.
I guess that would still be bullshit. How many guys on this board would like to be pulled over for "not" committing a crime?
Or the driving a certain way thing. I've had this happen myself 20 years ago. I'm sure we were "profiled" as bored teens, out late at night driving in a certain way. Cops pulled us over, found all sorts of tools of mischief (eggs, toilet paper, forks, instant potato, etc) We were not committing a crime (yet), but as we're making loops around various neighborhoods, it was a justified stop.
You are completely right about rights being infringed upon, but occasionally there are obvious behaviours worth investingating. $0.02
Maybe these cars were circling. Maybe they were slowing and speeding in curious ways. Making curious stops.
I have to agree with Aloha_Shooter - this doesn't exactly bother me.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 10:43
I guess that would still be bullshit. How many guys on this board would like to be pulled over for "not" committing a crime?
Happened to us many a time, just for riding motorcycles.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 10:44
That's bullshit too. Being pulled over for not breaking the law in any case is a bs.
You must be one young cherry.
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 10:52
Show me an example
Look dude, sorry I hurt your feelings. Like I said I'm working and don't have time to dig through your 600+ posts..
How about you go back to what ever you were doing before you decided to turn this thread about a TV program into a profiling/racial discussion.
And ill go back to what ever more important shit I was doing before I got distracted by your cry baby attitude.
It will be ok, life will go on, I promise ;)
Call aclu if you have an issue
Seriously?
You must be one young cherry.
Not young and not a "Cherry"
PugnacAutMortem
09-16-2013, 11:03
I do have to say...some people on here are not as consistent across the proverbial board when it comes to rights infringements. It's a fine line to walk to be sure, but if you are 100% against any infringement on gun ownership then you really should be consistent and be 100% against any other rights infringement. Otherwise it can come across as hypocritical. Just my two cents.
Look dude, sorry I hurt your feelings. Like I said I'm working and don't have time to dig through your 600+ posts..
How about you go back to what ever you were doing before you decided to turn this thread about a TV program into a profiling/racial discussion.
And ill go back to what ever more important shit I was doing before I got distracted by your cry baby attitude.
It will be ok, life will go on, I promise ;)
I wouldn't give yourself that much credit genius. You played along with every post I submitted. Nobody forced you to hit the reply button. If your gonna be a troll and make accusations, have something to back it up with. It appears your job is very demanding [ROFL1] so I'll let you get back to it. If your reading comprehension was where it should be you'd know that I didn't start the discussion on profiling in this thread.
I do have to say...some people on here are not as consistent across the proverbial board when it comes to rights infringements. It's a fine line to walk to be sure, but if you are 100% against any infringement on gun ownership then you really should be consistent and be 100% against any other rights infringement. Otherwise it can come across as hypocritical. Just my two cents.
Bingo
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-16-2013, 11:08
I do have to say...some people on here are not as consistent across the proverbial board when it comes to rights infringements. It's a fine line to walk to be sure, but if you are 100% against any infringement on gun ownership then you really should be consistent and be 100% against any other rights infringement. Otherwise it can come across as hypocritical. Just my two cents.
I agree with what you are saying, I'm not sure I agree with the application.
I 100% support your right to an AR. But when you behave, let's say almost illegally with it, I'm not offended if you are "profiled." The example of that guy trying to be provocative in Utah who open carried his AR into the fast food joint with it on his sling is a great example. Technically legal (as is being a minority in a luxury car who is driving unusually at night in certain neighborhoods), but definitely worth watching closely. $0.02 Why? Because you now fit a profile (FAR MORE than the "average" citizen) of someone who may commit a crime.
Happened to us many a time, just for riding motorcycles.
Did you call the ACLU?
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 11:17
I do have to say...some people on here are not as consistent across the proverbial board when it comes to rights infringements. It's a fine line to walk to be sure, but if you are 100% against any infringement on gun ownership then you really should be consistent and be 100% against any other rights infringement. Otherwise it can come across as hypocritical. Just my two cents.
Because of looks I`'ve been profiled more times than you can count. Yes I have an issue with it, doesn't mean it will change. Homeland security`s including returning troops is an example. The aclu doesn't go to bat for them.
Great-Kazoo
09-16-2013, 11:19
Did you call the ACLU?
You are young. There wasn't an aclu then or now, would handle cases like that.
Delfuego
09-16-2013, 11:25
Technically legal (as is being a minority in a luxury car who is driving unusually at night in certain neighborhoods), but definitely worth watching closely. $0.02 Why? Because you now fit a profile (FAR MORE than the "average" citizen) of someone who may commit a crime.Dude! Seriously???
This is retarded. Being black in a Mercedes is not a crime. Why dont you visit Atlanta sometime, you will meet (or see if your scared) black people with a lot more money than you or I have.
Profiling is BS whether its because of race, religion or because you have an NRA sticker on your truck.
One more for Mick!
http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Mick-Boy http://www.ar-15.co/images/tf_ideal/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ar-15.co/showthread.php?p=1282485#post1282485)
You are flat out of your mind. Haze yourself.
I'm gonna back out of this thread as it is obviously going no where. My points had nothing to do with black, pink, purple whatever. My issue had to with rights we should all retain. If an officer can pull you over for not committing a crime and its accepted by the general population....we're headed down a slippery slope. And don't think that most us as gun owners wouldn't someday be targeted.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-16-2013, 11:31
Dude! Seriously???
This is retarded. Being black in a Mercedes is not a crime. Why dont you visit Atlanta sometime, you will meet (or see if your scared) black people with a lot more money than you or I have.
Profiling is BS whether its because of race, religion or because you have an NRA sticker on your truck.
Once again - is it the race, religion, or sticker.....or is it the activity?
So yes, seriously.
*I* have a Mercedes. There are an awful lot of things I wouldn't do with it, and an awful lot of places & neighborhoods I won't take it. (Including Atlanta, where I have been several times. Thanks!). Especially at night. I would very much expect to be watched if I did.
Jeffrey Lebowski
09-16-2013, 11:40
NOT profiling is why Grandma in the wheelchair has to be specially examined in the TSA lines. But it would be absurd to consider folks who are a certain gender (males), a certain age (18-35), and a certain race or religion (ME / Muslim) in the TSA lines. Well, who tends to hijack planes historically speaking? Granny? Yet we're all upset when she is the one frisked.
If you're a black (or whatever, let's be honest - it could be me) male in a $40,000 or $80,000 or $120,000 vehicle cruising a neighborhood at night where the houses could be had for less than the car you are driving and one known for gang / drug / whatever activity - yeah, I'm suspicious. You're either really bad with understanding value or you might be up to no good. If I'm a cop, what am I supposed to, ignore you and go harrass the homeless guy wearing rags for info? Please.
Edit: And yet, if you're that same black (or whatever) male cruising the luxury car after work through Cherry Hills Village or Cherry Creek - you probably don't even catch anyone's attention.
We're supposed to pretend patterns don't exist? [facepalm]
Colorado_Outback
09-16-2013, 12:09
If your gonna be a troll and make accusations, have something to back it up with. It appears your job is very demanding so I'll let you get back to it. If your reading comprehension was where it should be you'd know that I didn't start the discussion on profiling in this thread.
It is, thanks for understanding.
And ouch, you really hurt my feelings with that one :rolleyes:
Aloha_Shooter
09-16-2013, 12:57
Let me preface my response to you but first stating that I don't put much weight in anything you say.
Damn, that just ruins my whole day. Whatever am I going to do?
I'm with you and Geraldo about Driving While Black not being a crime or valid profile but rental companies don't tint their windows so deep you can't see in the vehicle. Tourists rarely cruise in the middle of the night. Your anger is misplaced.
As far as putting my energy into protecting the 2A goes, you obviosly haven't been keeping up with things. Others are well aware of just how much time I've been putting into exactly that. Mr. Morse doesn't know me personally either but I'm one of the reasons he's looking for a new job.
XC700116
09-16-2013, 19:50
The C/B ms13, norteno's , this gang, that gang, have always been major player's in the drug trade. They have been muling Coke, heroin, meth, and weed (pocket change) for decades. They have not been PUSHED out of the weed biz, just not as "involved" as they use to be.
There was a law suit filed by the ACLU, on behalf of persons of color years ago, because the CSP "profiled" tinted windowed, late night, out of state plates, luxury cars being driven by blacks and hispanics. The ACLU won the case, even though CSP and other LE groups along the I -70, 25 and 80 corridor , had a 95% (approx) arrest AND conviction rate, go figure.
So in other words they weren't doing anything illegal to be pulled over. With all do respect Jim, that's bullshit. And how did they know their race if the windows were tinted?
1. ACLU Sued based on those things/suspicions and unless on every arrest they (CSP) also went so far as to bother charging them with whatever traffic violation they pulled them over with on EVERY SINGLE occaision it's automatically an uphill battle for the CSP. Now if they managed to get cases and convictions tossed based on the profiling aspect then I'd be with you on this.
2. Unless you or someone else here was personally involved or have bothered to read through the case transcripts or otherwise have proof that CSP was indeed profiling, and ONLY pulled those vehicles over based on profile alone and no other violations, you can't make those assumptions and expect people to automagiaclly agree with you and act offended when they don't.
3. You're taking something mentioned in passing in a discussion and blowing it out of proportion. Chill out dude.
And to the point of rights violations, there's a big difference between getting caught red handed commiting a felony and getting harassed by cops for the car you drive. If it were a case of being harassed by cops I'd be totally on your side, but the ACLU was suing basically because they didn't find enough white guys commiting the same crimes. It's what they do, and they have a proven track record of doing it. I agree blatently harassing people strictly based on car and race is not a good thing and is BS but if they are getting 95% ish conviction rate, in our justice system, they clearly were acting on more evidence than race and what kind of car they are driving.
And how the hell can anyone tell what race someone is driving a vehicle with tinted windows at night while cruising at highway speeds?
Funny, I just watched that episode and thought this was going to be a discussion on it..... I guess I should have known better. :)
It hasn't rained here for almost nine hours now. If this keeps up, things might start to dry out!
It hasn't rained here for almost nine hours now. If this keeps up, things might start to dry out!
Thanks for getting things back on topic.
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