Copper Only Projectiles?

[45XD]

Have not seen/heard of these before:

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4583216621553102&w=202&h=165&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

Product Information http://media.midwayusa.com/images/vendorlogos/2877.jpg (http://www.midwayusa.com/brand/copper-only-projectiles-cop) Copper Only Projectiles (C.O.P.) ammunition is loaded with solid copper hollow point bullets. The large hollow point results in extreme expansion and maximum weight retention. Being solid copper, there is no worry of failure due to jacket separation. For these reasons, C.O.P. ammunition is perfect for self defense and even hunting with the larger calibers.

All C.O.P. projectiles and ammunition go through strict quality control to ensure the absolute best product for the customer. This product complies with lead-free requirements and is loaded in reloadable brass cases. Made in the USA.

Technical Information Caliber: 41 Remington Magnum
Bullet Weight: 180 Grains
Bullet Style: Solid Copper Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass


Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 1369 fps
Muzzle Energy: 749 ft. lbs.




http://www.midwayusa.com/product/834343/copper-only-projectiles-cop-ammunition-41-remington-magnum-180-grain-solid-copper-hollow-point-box-of-25

Any of you have any thoughts or experience with these rounds? I have a New Model Blackhawk in .41 Mag that I could try these out in...

[nynco]

sounds like a REALLY expensive gimmick. Coppers mass is also lower than lead which means less transferred energy.

[TFOGGER]

Barnes had the X-Bullet years ago for hunting rifles.

They have apparently expanded the product line: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/

[Sawin]

sounds like a REALLY expensive gimmick. Coppers mass is also lower than lead which means less transferred energy.

Strangely they're not that expensive compared to other JHP ammo in today's market. Also, (not trying to be a wise-guy) but why does the type of metal matter with respect to transferred energy? 180 grains is 180 grains, is it not? The soft copper sprawling on impact would likely transfer the energy faster than a jacketed lead bullet, which in my experience equates to causing a larger entry hole and is less likely to suffer over penetration.

[Great-Kazoo]

It's the only style allowed beside FMJ, V & Amax and the leveroultion for hunting, in CA.

[crays]

It's the only style allowed beside FMJ, V & Amax and the leveroultion for hunting, in CA.

What Jim said. With all the "greenies" out there pushing to ban lead shot and bullets, don't be surprised to start seeing more and more of these types of products.
Think: Steel and/or Bismuth shot, Stranded Zinc bullets (Federal Ballisticlean), non-heavy-metal primers, etc., etc. ...

Remember: IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!! [Flower]

[Mick-Boy]

I've been using the Barnes 70gr TAC-X rifle bullets over seas for about three years. Those things are tits for intermediate barrier penetration (no jacket to come off in the windshield or whatever) and they're pretty damn accurate. I don't even bother with Mk262 anymore.

ASYM precision loads defensive handgun rounds with the all copper Barnes bullets too.

All that to say, I don't think they're a gimmick at all. But for my carry loads I still go with something popular in the LE community (SPEER gold dot, Winchester Ranger or Federal HST).

[Dave]

Barnes makes the TTX for .458 Socom (and other) loads. They are in 300 and 350 grain IIRC and I have seen the mushroom patterns look just like a jacketed lead HP round just all copper colored instead of bi-tone. If the bullet weighs the same and the charge is the same and Force = mass x acceleration then a copper round will hit with the same force as a lead round will when fired from the same gun. Not sure why people get so huffy about lead free rounds.

[Great-Kazoo]

Barnes makes the TTX for .458 Socom (and other) loads. They are in 300 and 350 grain IIRC and I have seen the mushroom patterns look just like a jacketed lead HP round just all copper colored instead of bi-tone. If the bullet weighs the same and the charge is the same and Force = mass x acceleration then a copper round will hit with the same force as a lead round will when fired from the same gun. Not sure why people get so huffy about lead free rounds.

Lack of information. Unwillingness to try something new.

[hatidua]

Not sure why people get so huffy about lead free rounds.

At least to some degree, I think it has to do with the past efforts that some entities have put forth to outright ban lead projectiles under the guise of environmental concerns. Whether it's a lead ban, a 10rd mag limitation, or an AWB, some of us are simply tired of the unending push to restrict our hobby. An all-copper .22LR bullet would very likely price me out of the rimfire game if lead was prohibited as some would like to do. I realize these are not rimfire bullets, but once you get the market saturated with non-lead ammo, it's not going to be nearly as difficult to entirely prohibit use and possession of lead ammo.

While I used to scoff at the notion of "as goes CA, so goes the nation", I'm not so sure that the phrase is as inaccurate as I once thought. Legislators have tried more than once to prohibit lead ammo in CA in the past and I suspect they will eventually succeed - the looniness out there truly knows no bounds. I don't personally care if someone wants to use bullets entirely crafted from sun-dried tomato skins, I simply fear where trends like this lead and worry that such things can be used by the anti-gun crowd against us ("you don't need lead ammo as their are suitable alternatives, we are therefore banning future use and possession of lead ammo").

[DavieD55]

Kalifonya loads. Lead is too dangerous in kalifonya. [LOL] If we keep allowing agencies like the nutjobs at the EPA to keep running amok we will probably end up having to use lead free here in CO one of these days.

I am sure they would shoot good but I would be reluctant to buy unless I couldn't find ammunition that is proven to be reliable.

[spqrzilla]

Poorer ballistic coefficient in general. The problem is that some of the better non-lead alloys qualify as armor piercing rounds under Federal law. Which makes them problematic for handgun ammunition.

[Kraven251]

that fault line needs to hurry the fuck up, er I mean hi.

[Bailey Guns]

I thought solid copper bullets have been around for a while, too.

[spqrzilla]

I thought solid copper bullets have been around for a while, too.

The whitetail I shot with one about a dozen years ago had no complaints.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

Lead free projectiles are the thing of the near future. Public or private land.

in kansas you can't even hunt dove without using steel shot. No lead whatsoever.

[Gman]

The all copper bullet technology primarily came from a desire for better ballistic performance, not because of the 'green' movement. I know people that won't use anything but a Barne's for taking elk...and they aren't the 'environmental type'.

[Colorado Osprey]

Not sure why people get so huffy about lead free rounds.

Like others have stated.. the greeny's are just trying to outlaw things a little at a time.
If laws like California pass across the country most stocked ammo or reloading components would then also be illegal to shoot. That includes almost all .22lr as well pellets in a pellet gun.

For those of us that have been shooting and reloading for 40 plus years that means all of out stocked components are now just sinkers for fishing.

Thats at least why I get huffy.

[TFOGGER]

sounds like a REALLY expensive gimmick. Coppers mass is also lower than lead which means less transferred energy.

They're going to be longer for a given weight, but as long as velocity and bullet weight are the same, energy will be consistent. Actually, a longer bullet should improve aerodynamic performance, but may run into overall length restrictions or reduce powder capacity. That's probably why they don't offer them for common autoloader calibers. An alternative would be to reduce the bullet mass, but increase velocity to arrive at the same muzzle energy, but velocity at extended ranges (and the resultant retained energy) would suffer. Also, being soft copper instead of gilding metal, there might be some issues with bullet deformation on the feed ramps of some pistols, but that is speculation on my part.

Edit: They DO offer them for common SD auto calibers, they just call them TAC-XP and put them with the LE bullets on their website.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/mle-tactical-bullets/mle-tac-xp-pistol-bullets/

[rondog]

I bought a box of #30800 bullets from Barnes, the exact same bullet in this ammo and also all-copper. Made for defense and deer hunting. They're not a catalog item, but Barnes has had so many requests for them that when they make these for Cor-Bon they make a large over-run to take care of some of the demand. I just loaded up my own version of these with 14.5gr. of H110. I keep 'em in an M1 carbine by the bedside. Very aggressive looking bullets, the cavity goes down almost to the case mouth.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/ammo%20and%20reloading/Cor-BonDPX30carbine.png

[PSS]

Lead free projectiles are the thing of the near future. Public or private land.

in kansas you can't even hunt dove without using steel shot. No lead whatsoever.

You can use lead on dove in Kansas.

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Migratory-Birds/Non-Toxic-Shot-Non-Toxic-Shot-Only-Areas


Kansas requires non-toxic shot for hunting ALL migratory game birds except dove and woodcock.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

You can use lead on dove in Kansas.

http://www.kdwpt.state.ks.us/news/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Migratory-Birds/Non-Toxic-Shot-Non-Toxic-Shot-Only-Areas

I stand corrected. However the public property we drove by said lead free and there were multiple game wardens checking on opening day. We got hassled by one of the game wardens later in the day.

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

That was updated in 2007.

This is 2013 info for Kansas.

http://kdwpt.state.ks.us/news//Hunting/Migratory-Birds/Doves/2011-Fields-Managed-for-Dove-Hunting

[45XD]

that fault line needs to hurry the fuck up, er I mean hi.

Awesome

[45XD]

Strangely they're not that expensive compared to other JHP ammo in today's market. Also, (not trying to be a wise-guy) but why does the type of metal matter with respect to transferred energy? 180 grains is 180 grains, is it not? The soft copper sprawling on impact would likely transfer the energy faster than a jacketed lead bullet, which in my experience equates to causing a larger entry hole and is less likely to suffer over penetration.

Yeah, the 41 mag COP rounds were actually fairly inexpensive compared with some of the factory loaded stuff I've seen. Might have to give them a try and see how they pan out.
Now I have to figure out how to-somehow- let my wife know that I purchased a 41 mag... This won't be pretty...

[UncleDave]

Just do what I do. Tell her it's been in the safe for years! One N frame looks like another! [UZI]

[Gman]

.41 Mag has been one of those calibers I hope to own sometime in my life, probably a S&W.

I did note when ammo was hard to come by, I seemed to be able to find 10mm auto and .41 Mag.