Public School over-reach?

[GilpinGuy]

My step-daughter and a few friends went to the movies in Denver last weekend. They saw a fellow students Cherokee in the parking lot and decided (foolishly, I admit) to pull a prank. They opened the unlocked rear hatch and left a "funny" note inside. The owner of that Cherokee got into her Jeep some time later and drove off. The hatch opened on the highway (the story goes anyway) and she lost a bunch of stuff that flew out. Apparently, this girl was not running with the "in crowd" and the prank was not welcome to say the least. The girl did file a police report.

To make long story a bit shorter, the Principal decided that the girls involved in the prank will be prohibited from playing in the next volleyball game. The girls who pulled the prank and the victim are all on the volleyball team.

This did not happen during school, on school property or on school time whatsoever - it was over the weekend. So what business is it of the school at all? The Principal, who's also the volleyball coach, told my wife that she felt it was necessary because the Cherokee owner was a volleyball team member as well, team unity, blah blah blah.

Yes, some discipline is probably in order BY HER MOM AND ME, but not the damn school. [Rant1] Am I out of line for being a little pissed here? I'm more pissed at the Principal than I am at the prank at this point.

[jhood001]

Your kid broke into a vehicle. Prank or not.

I don't have kids and I don't personally know you, but it seems like you're more concerned with someone stepping into your child disciplinary space than you are anything else.

Regardless, missing a game is a small price to pay. It is certainly a better penalty than having a juvenile record.

Best of luck with the situation.

[GilpinGuy]

it seems like you're more concerned with someone stepping into your child disciplinary space than you are anything else.

Damn right. That's my whole point. What right does the school have to discipline kids when they do things AWAY from school over a weekend? They need to fuck off. Not a school matter at all.

Yes, there will be discipline at home. Not really the topic here though. In fact, I put that in bold in the OP.

[T-Giv]

Your kid broke into a vehicle. Prank or not.


The kids actually didn't "break" into the vehicle. It was unlocked as stated by the OP. In order for a first degree criminal trespass charge to stick there would have to be an intent to commit a crime inside of the vehicle upon entering...which there was clearly not. Possibly a trespass charge would stick but even that would be slim. Bottom line in my book is that yes your kid did something wrong and they should be punished. However, I agree with the OP that the school can go right the fuck off and mind its own business. It's the way of the world these days. At least your daughter is learning this now for when she is in the work force. Employers are getting ever more involved in people's personal affairs that have no relation to their professional work. Just my .02

[UncleDave]

After school activities are a privilege. A student can be suspended or bared from the team for conduct that is unbecoming, or for grades dropping, etc. That's how it was when I was in school 20+ years ago. If you did something that reflected poorly on the team or the school the coach punished you, as well as your parents, and the cops if it was bad enough. An example, coach made the team forfeit a game over a kegger party once when I was in HS. I don't see this as overstepping, but as a unified front with the discipline of you the parents. If the principal had suspended the girls from school over the incident, that would be stepping over the line, but most extra curricular activities include a good conduct contract in my day at least. Just my 2 cents.

[brokenscout]

Schools ask kids if there are guns in the home, they known what best for our kids. [Coffee] They shouldn't have a right to, but if all the girls are on a school volleyball team, and related to that.??? They can drug test your kids for sports? Good luck , lol, also worry more about how far they want to press the police issue

[Great-Kazoo]

Easiest way to find out what they were thinking is , ask them. Is there anything in the school handbook / expectations that dictates how far the school's reach is. Myself, i would have already been meeting with them, for clarification of their actions.
While the "punishment" was not severe, this time. Who knows what could happen next time.

[flyingcouch]

After school activities are a privilege. A student can be suspended or bared from the team for conduct that is unbecoming, or for grades dropping, etc. That's how it was when I was in school 20+ years ago. If you did something that reflected poorly on the team or the school the coach punished you, as well as your parents, and the cops if it was bad enough. An example, coach made the team forfeit a game over a kegger party once when I was in HS. I don't see this as overstepping, but as a unified front with the discipline of you the parents. If the principal had suspended the girls from school over the incident, that would be stepping over the line, but most extra curricular activities include a good conduct contract in my day at least. Just my 2 cents.

This ^

The school did not punish her, the vollyball coach did related to volleyball. It think a coach has every right to punish one player for treating other players poorly.

To answer your question, I do think you are out of line. Also people (kids) need to learn that life is not always fair. High school is the time when parents need to step aside a bit and let kids deal with their own issues, even if they are not always fair - IMHO

[Lurch]

Yes it was a prank and no one got hurt. But what if someone had swerved to miss the stuff falling out of the car and had been killed? I would meet with the coach/principal and see what if anything will happen if she does something again. Also she should consider herself lucky with a one game suspension.

[Sharpienads]

My wife was a volleyball player, too. Volleyball girls are nothing but trouble.

But to the OP, I don't see the issue. A couple of girls pulled a prank on a fellow team member, whether innocent or not, and it turned into a ptentially dangerous/costly situation. Now the coach is making them sit on the bench. However, it sounds like the prankee probably overreacted a bit.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

I don't like people fucking with my car.... Had it been my car.... criminal charges would have been pressed against all those involved.

I'm an asshole when it comes to my car. One of my "friends" wrote "pussy bitch" on my car windows with a paint pen. Yeah, it came off with a razor blade and some alcohol, but I still had him tagged with vandalism.

I'd say she's lucky criminal charges weren't pursued. Take the suspension and don't make waves. It could be worse.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Irving]

There is a nexus tying the school to the event. The girls know the other girl from the school. If your kid had gotten into a stranger's car, the school wouldn't be involved. That's how schools are able to suspend kids after house parties.

For how much people hate schools, they sure get upset when kids get suspended from school. Not saying you Gilpin since your situation is a tad different. This is no big deal at all. If you approach the coach and tell him/her that you'd prefer to discipline/raise your kid without his/her help, they'd probably tell you that he/she would prefer that you would have done so before your kid caused an issue like this in the first place.

[CO Hugh]

Generally, I would agree that non-school misconduct should not be punished by the school. However there are some differences here that may come into play. If the school doesn't discipline, then the alternative is to involve the police so possibly the school discipline is a better alternative.

Additionally, because it is a sports team issue, the coach may have broader discretion due to the team and camaraderie issue.

As an editorial, these theories and rules make us subjects. For example by the same reasoning if you receive a DUI (maybe not even convicted), or other criminal activity, you can have your professional occupational license sanctioned. Who cares if your doctor is a drunk as long as not when treating you.

[Lurch]

Co Hugh your last statement has me a bit puzzled. Are you saying that peoples actions outside of work shouldn't effect their work or peoples actions outside of school shouldn't effect their school?

[Aloha_Shooter]

Sorry, not really feeling that supportive on this one. I think the coach has a right and duty to discipline team members. A one game sit-out is a reasonable way to try to reinforce team unity. This is to recent examples of zero tolerance as a $20 parking ticket is to criminal conviction for a hit-and-run DUI.

[davsel]

Sounds like a jurisdictional issue.
Schools should have jurisdiction and very little disciplinary power over anything happening on school property and/or during school functions - ONLY.

That is the way it was when and where I went to school. That's why fights were scheduled for after school hours and off campus.

If the players have a problem with each other, and incidents occur outside of school, contact the parents and let them deal with it.
If it occurs inside of school, let the school deal with it.

I was told as a child, that if I did anything at school that caused me to require "school discipline," I would be receiving much worse when I got home.

Too many "parents" are OK with letting the schools "raise" their children. Unfortunately, this requires schools to step-up because they know there is often too little discipline in the home.

Obviously, I agree with the OP - School Over-Reach is a growing problem - promoted by a growing lack of parenting.

[10mm-man]

Maybe someone said this; I didn't read the whole thing. What would you do if you were the coach of the team and found out about this? Don't NFL players get reprimanded for actions outside of football. Don't athletes get held accountable for there actions? I think it is a good lesson!

[Monky]

The criminals.. yeah they're not kids.. they crossed that line 'foolish prank' or not.. They knew it wasn't their vehicle.

Conduct of team players outside of school has always been something coaches push for.. your actions reflect poorly on the team.. you suffer. I do not see an issue with it. At all levels of sports it happens. Granted when someone famous does something stupid they're ridiculed in the public eye.. then fined by the league, take a monetary loss from suspensions..

The criminals actions had a negative impact on the 'team'.. The coach's/school's decision to suspend the players for a single game is fairly lenient.. Some coaches would just remove the kids from the team altogether. Should the team lose a game due to the suspended players.. well I suppose they'll have to answer to their team mates then too won't they..

play stupid games win stupid prizes.

[davsel]

I did not realize this board was made up of so many perfectly disciplined former youth.

I'm thankful that where I grew up, parents and schools knew the difference between criminal activity and youthful pranks.
You get caught pulling a prank off campus, the parents get involved; on campus, the school and the parents get involved.
Cops should not get called for pranks, no matter where they occur.

As far as a coach's jurisdiction, it does not extend beyond the school and the practice field. These are not professional athletes who are being paid to play. That would be more equal to any full-time employment, where if you mess up outside of work, and it reflects negatively on your employer, you get fired. These are kids in an extracurricular activity.

Coaches, Band Directors, Drama Teachers, etc., don't have special disciplinary privileges that extend beyond their roll as the organizer of an activity.
If something happens during school or practice, the coach should handle it, along with the parents.
If it happens outside of school or practice, it is the parents responsibility.

[crays]

I did not realize this board was made up of so many perfectly disciplined former youth.

I'm thankful that where I grew up, parents and schools knew the difference between criminal activity and youthful pranks.
You get caught pulling a prank off campus, the parents get involved; on campus, the school and the parents get involved.
Cops should not get called for pranks, no matter where they occur.

As far as a coach's jurisdiction, it does not extend beyond the school and the practice field. These are not professional athletes who are being paid to play. That would be more equal to any full-time employment, where if you mess up outside of work, and it reflects negatively on your employer, you get fired. These are kids in an extracurricular activity.

Coaches, Band Directors, Drama Teachers, etc., don't have special disciplinary privileges that extend beyond their roll as the organizer of an activity.
If something happens during school or practice, the coach should handle it, along with the parents.
If it happens outside of school or practice, it is the parents responsibility.

Why is it it that when the. "in crowd" kids prank an "outsider" it's youthful indiscretion, but when an the tables are reversed, it's malicious mischief?

Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

[davsel]

Why is it it that when the. "in crowd" kids prank an "outsider" it's youthful indiscretion, but when an the tables are reversed, it's malicious mischief?

Just teaching kids how the real world operates.

[crays]

Just teaching kids how the real world operates.

So you condone this notion of elitism?

Sent via my Mobile Work Avoidance Device

[hatidua]

the Principal decided that the girls involved in the prank will be prohibited from playing in the next volleyball game.

That's it?!

If someone did that to my car, and it caused the loss of my belongings, -well, some things are better not put into print.

Those girls got off light and now realize that the only scholastic repercussion from messing with another students car is missing a volleyball game.

[davsel]

So you condone this notion of elitism?

Really?

I also recognize the fact that our country has been overthrown by Marxists.
Does that somehow imply that I condone the fact?

I think you may have over-reached.

[flyingcouch]

I did not realize this board was made up of so many perfectly disciplined former youth.

I'm thankful that where I grew up, parents and schools knew the difference between criminal activity and youthful pranks.
You get caught pulling a prank off campus, the parents get involved; on campus, the school and the parents get involved.
Cops should not get called for pranks, no matter where they occur.

As far as a coach's jurisdiction, it does not extend beyond the school and the practice field. These are not professional athletes who are being paid to play. That would be more equal to any full-time employment, where if you mess up outside of work, and it reflects negatively on your employer, you get fired. These are kids in an extracurricular activity.

Coaches, Band Directors, Drama Teachers, etc., don't have special disciplinary privileges that extend beyond their roll as the organizer of an activity.
If something happens during school or practice, the coach should handle it, along with the parents.
If it happens outside of school or practice, it is the parents responsibility.

I don't think anyone here is preaching from their pedestal. I think they are just saying that its ok for the volleyball coach to discipline a player in this situation. Does not mean that they never screwed up.

I believe coaches should hold their players to a higher standard. don't be confused because the principle is the coach. I believe this was the reaction from the "coach" and not the principle. recently my sons highschool football team was spreading some rumors amongst themselves regarding the female student team managers. Their next practice was heavy on the conditioning and involved a lot of running, crawling, up-downs, high knees, more running, sprinting, and throwing up. The school cannot discipline this way, but the coach can. Coaches do have special disciplinary privilages.

[Lurch]

Flyingcouch beat me to this but I will still leave my response.

What everyone keeps over looking here is was it the principal that gave them the one game suspension or the coach. Granted this is the same person who is most likely volunteering their time to teach/coach these kids but that is the question that needs answered. If it's the principal side of this person then yes they have over stepped their boundaries. If it's the coach side then no they have all the right to suspend someone from playing.

[CO Hugh]

Co Hugh your last statement has me a bit puzzled. Are you saying that peoples actions outside of work shouldn't effect their work or peoples actions outside of school shouldn't effect their school?

Not per se the employer or private actor enforcing its own rules. My problem is a government entity, say the state medical board, subjecting you to discipline for an unrelated criminal matter.

It seems to be overreach by the state.

[Colorado_Outback]

Apparently, this girl was not running with the "in crowd" and the prank was not welcome to say the least. The girl did file a police report.

Its pretty obvious from your post that your step daughter and her friends are bullying this girl.

Call it a "prank" if you want to but that's the reality of the situation.

As far as the disciplinary action gos after school sports are a privilege, not a right. Don't like the punishment? pull her out of Volleyball. Problem solved.

I'm glad the girl they are bullying filed a police report. I hope an officer shows up to talk to her about what happened, in my experience that's one of the only things bully's understand. That or getting the shit kicked out of them.

[Monky]

Oddly enough.. in the news..

Coach suspends ENTIRE football team for Cyber bullying..
(http://kdvr.com/2013/09/25/utah-high-school-football-coach-suspends-entire-team-for-cyberbullying-incident/)
I was a perfect angel as a child..

[02ducky]

I say it's an overreach of the school and the continued pussification of kids. Oh I forgot its for the kids... Pfft, whatever.

Why can't parents hold their kids accountable for their actions? Off school grounds, didn't involve the school or the school system. Calling bullshit on this one.

[Monky]

I say it's an overreach of the school and the continued pussification of kids. Oh I forgot its for the kids... Pfft, whatever.

Why can't parents hold their kids accountable for their actions? Off school grounds, didn't involve the school or the school system. Calling bullshit on this one.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

It's not over reaching for the school. It is holding them accountable in their 'professional' choices. How many parents DO NOT hold their kids accountable? How many of the parents will go 'it was just a harmless prank'.. well suppose that a bowling ball had been in the back of the victims vehicle and it bounced out of the rear of the vehicle causing multiple accidents and possibly a fatality? Still a harmless prank? Not so much.. Thankfully it did not happen, but if the kids are not taught that there are consequences to their actions then guess what.. they'll do it again.. and again.. and again. Until such a time as there are real consequences, then what do the parents do?

I'm not saying GG isn't going to find an acceptable punishment for his kid.. but this is another layer of it. She was suspended for a game.. it's not as if she were suspended from school, that would be over reaching. Suspension from extra-curricular activities is not.

[02ducky]

We can agree to disagree, what if kid gets a speeding ticket off school grounds? Should the same standard be held? Police were involved, should that kid not be allowed to drive on school grounds? I see both sides of this, I just think the school is overreaching their boundaries.

[RblDiver]

I think I agree with the people who feel this is acceptable. A school suspension would be overreach, but a team activity is acceptable. It is likely that the animosity between the parties involved would extend to the sporting field, and thus affect the team cohesion and effectiveness. A one-game suspension is pretty minor, and gives a chance for things to hopefully cool off.

[crays]

Really?

I also recognize the fact that our country has been overthrown by Marxists.
Does that somehow imply that I condone the fact?

I think you may have over-reached.

And, perhaps, you have over-reacted. A simple "no" would have been sufficient. You made what I took as a matter-of-fact, if not somewhat aloof, statement: "Just teaching kids how the real world operates." I asked a simple question in regards to that response, not an implication of your beliefs. My apologies if you took it as a personal attack.

Let's get back to GG's thread here, and not start our own semi-hijacking splinter.

1. Kids will be kids.
2. Kids are not always the most compassionate, when it comes to dealing with peers.
3. Kids will do stupid crap without fully thinking though the repercussions.
4. Sometimes adults don't fare much better, especially when placed in an actual, or even perceived, position of authority/power/etc.

While I'm sure GG's stepdaughter had no malicious intent (see #1, #2), she and her friends overstepped the line when they entered the vehicle, unlocked or not (see #3, #1).
Does the coach/principal have the authority to intiate the punitive measures she did (see #4)? Maybe/maybe not, due to many good points brought up by fellow members thus far. I am in agreement that the daughter will likely face punishment at home more severe than missing a volleyball match, as we can all attest to GG's character through our dealings with him. Could the school administration have handled it more tactfully? Likely so.
Though there was potential property loss/damage involved, I would hope it is not so severe that this situation cannot be resolved through good parenting, some humble apologies, and the application of what seems to be a good "teaching/learning/life-lesson situation".

Davsel, from your reply regarding the authority of coaches, band directors, etc., I think you may be overlooking an important aspect of extra-curricular activites.
I agree with flyingcouch and Lurch, regarding the "additional responsibilities" (for lack of a better phrase) of any coach. Part of the purpose of team sports, and many e-c activities in school is personality and character building/development.
Also curious as to the capacity the adult was acting under (coach/principal) when the punishment was determined.

John, you should definitely have a conversation with the principal/coach.

ETA: Just my opinion on it.

[waxthis]

Son "17" had same girlfriend "17" for over 1 year, son leaves girlfriend. Girlfriend gets upset about being dumped and sprays nasty message on son's car at work with washable paint, son get pissed and files report with police. Son decides to drop complaint same day.. Cops say they can't because since they were in a relationship at one time, what ex did is considered DOMESTIC ABUSE. Cops go to girls house, she confesses and go's to Juvi, until she can be seen by a judge for domestic abuse charges. Things are not what they once were folks, its amazing what the consequences are now for what most of us would think is petty.

[james_bond_007]

...I was told as a child, that if I did anything at school that caused me to require "school discipline," I would be receiving much worse when I got home....



YOUR parents must have known MY parents.

This was the same for me.
I'd beg the school not to call my parents...because I was a "dead man walking" until I got home....then I was just a "dead man".

[Colorado_Outback]

the continued pussification of kids. Oh I forgot its for the kids... Pfft, whatever.

So do you think that the girl they are messing with should just put up with it?


We can agree to disagree, what if kid gets a speeding ticket off school grounds? Should the same standard be held? Police were involved, should that kid not be allowed to drive on school grounds? I see both sides of this, I just think the school is overreaching their boundaries.

The incident involved another student/team mate. She didn't have to sit a game for leaving a nasty note in a strangers car..

Teenagers don't use common sense or compassion. I know from experience.

Do you really think teaching young people to treat others with dignity and respect is "the continued pussification of kids"?

[Neutron]

I don't have kids. My .02 is, if it was the coach that made the call for the one game suspension then that would be acceptable. They were on the same team and what not. To play as a team you have to think like a team. If it was the principal then the school is way over stepping its bounds. Not on school grounds, not during school hours, the kid SHOULD be the parents responsibility. If you want the state to take care for your kids move to California and keep voting for Finetsein.
Now I know there are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine, and the truth. I'm calling dog wash on the stuff falling out. If the girl that was driving didn't put stuff in the back through the back hatch, there should have been nothing close enough to fall out if it came flying open. Does make you wonder what really happened. Doesn't really matter. The question was, Does the school have the right. I say no. Parent yes. Coach yes. Principal, no

[james_bond_007]

...Apparently, this girl was not running with the "in crowd" ...

^^^This phrase caught my attention.

(Correct me if I am reading to much into this ...)

It makes me think that the victim of the prank was, and has been, a sort of "outcast" on the team...somehow different...somehow that she did not "fit in", socially, at least in the eyes of the other teammates.

I would guess that this was probably not the first "prank" of which she had been the victim, that there had been other "incidents" prior to this, and the victim's parents had "had enough" by now.

I would guess that the victim's parents probably don't get along with the other parents and are also not in the parent "in" crowd,

I would guess that the team resented this girl being on the team and maybe felt the girl was "invading" their "clique".

I would guess that she "made the team" based on her abilities, but was ostracized by the teammates.

I would guess that the team was trying to make staying on the team "hard on the victim", to the point where she might eventually give up and quit.

I would guess that the coach/principal was aware of all this, and had to handle other "incidents of bullying by the team" prior to this.

I make all these "guesses" because I'll bet that if one of the other girls in the "clique" had been the victim, the parents would have worked it out and the school would have never been involved. They would have probably laughed about it (to some extent), and kept the whole matter to themselves.

Seems like a form of "bullying" to me, but some of that is based on your statements, some my guesses, and a lot of info to which I have no access.


My Conclusion and Opinion:

To me, the reason for the school to justify involvement is because of the Volleyball-relationship of all of the girls.
If the victim had not been on the volleyball team, would the others still have "pranked" her? ...probably not, as she would not have been affiliated with them.

I think that since many of the Volleyball team players conspired to act against another team member, the coach, upon learning about this, determined the "bullying" to be a serious enough "team" problem, independent of the outcome of the prank, and is justified in the school pursing disciplinary actions for this.

The victim's parents can work the "criminal" aspect (unexpected damages due to the prank) of this independently from the team aspect with the police or the other parents. The school should not get involved in this area.

...just my opinion. Thanks for asking.

[Monky]

We can agree to disagree, what if kid gets a speeding ticket off school grounds? Should the same standard be held? Police were involved, should that kid not be allowed to drive on school grounds? I see both sides of this, I just think the school is overreaching their boundaries.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a 'speeding ticket' or even in the same realm.

If you were to harass a co-worker outside of work.. do you think that NOTHING would be done by your employer if reported and mentioned that the cops issued a summons?

Real world has consequences and the kids need to learn that shit NOW

[Irving]

Don't forget the nexus tying students to the school. Education isn't a right either.

[02ducky]

So do you think that the girl they are messing with should just put up with it?



The incident involved another student/team mate. She didn't have to sit a game for leaving a nasty note in a strangers car..

Teenagers don't use common sense or compassion. I know from experience.

Do you really think teaching young people to treat others with dignity and respect is "the continued pussification of kids"?

Let me be clear, I am not defending GG daughters actions, it's not about that, it's about the school overstepping those boundaries on a situation that occurred away from school off property that is being addressed by the police and GG, that's the way is should work IMO. I alao know that opinions are like buttholes everybody's got one.

[Irving]

What boundaries is the school overstepping? You do something out of line involving someone you know from school, school potentially suspends you FROM SCHOOL. Same deal as with sports. You are disciplined within the organization. Missing school is no extreme circumstance. The school isn't garnishing wages or blocking you from getting a license or a job.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

What boundaries is the school overstepping? You do something out of line involving someone you know from school, school potentially suspends you FROM SCHOOL. Same deal as with sports. You are disciplined within the organization. Missing school is no extreme circumstance. The school isn't garnishing wages or blocking you from getting a license or a job.

Yep.... Just like me.... If I do something stupid outside of work and the cops get called I get in trouble too.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Chad4000]

I don't like people fucking with my car.... Had it been my car.... criminal charges would have been pressed against all those involved.

I'm an asshole when it comes to my car. One of my "friends" wrote "pussy bitch" on my car windows with a paint pen. Yeah, it came off with a razor blade and some alcohol, but I still had him tagged with vandalism.

I'd say she's lucky criminal charges weren't pursued. Take the suspension and don't make waves. It could be worse.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

Wow....

[Irving]

Haven't seen Gilpin post in a while. Hope everything is okay.

[GilpinGuy]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the replies in this thread yet, but here's an update. (Been working graves the last 10 of 11 nights and have 3 more to go)

It turns out the "victim" made up the story about her hatch opening and her crap flying out. I'm still not sure if a police report was actually filed. High school girl drama...<sigh>

[GilpinGuy]

Haven't seen Gilpin post in a while. Hope everything is okay.

Life is good, thanks! Bring on the OT!

[BigDee]

Son "17" had same girlfriend "17" for over 1 year, son leaves girlfriend. Girlfriend gets upset about being dumped and sprays nasty message on son's car at work with washable paint, son get pissed and files report with police. Son decides to drop complaint same day.. Cops say they can't because since they were in a relationship at one time, what ex did is considered DOMESTIC ABUSE. Cops go to girls house, she confesses and go's to Juvi, until she can be seen by a judge for domestic abuse charges. Things are not what they once were folks, its amazing what the consequences are now for what most of us would think is petty.

Honesty is not always the best policy in this day and age. My parents always told me to be honest with authorities and own up to what I did. I loved by those rules and the first time I got into trouble following those rules got me a much more severe punishment than keeping my
Mouth shut would have.

My children will be thought not to speak to authorities under any circumstance until they have spoken to mom and dad or mom and dad's attorney and one of them are present at the time they are speaking to authorities. It's the authorities job to twist facts and convince people to talk themselves into criminal charges regardless of actual guilt. "Hook me up and let the system figure it out."

[colo-pr]

Your kid broke into a vehicle. Prank or not.

I don't have kids and I don't personally know you, but it seems like you're more concerned with someone stepping into your child disciplinary space than you are anything else.

Regardless, missing a game is a small price to pay. It is certainly a better penalty than having a juvenile record.

Best of luck with the situation.

+1

[Great-Kazoo]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the replies in this thread yet, but here's an update. (Been working graves the last 10 of 11 nights and have 3 more to go)

It turns out the "victim" made up the story about her hatch opening and her crap flying out. I'm still not sure if a police report was actually filed. High school girl drama...<sigh>

Just wait till there's boys, dances and competition involved. My ol lady ended up reading on of the daughters ex's the riot act, after she went to his house, @ 7 in the am.

[Colorado_Outback]

Just wait till there's boys, dances and competition involved. My ol lady ended up reading on of the daughters ex's the riot act, after she went to his house, @ 7 in the am.

As the OP mentioned, always 2 sides to the story.

I had an ex's mom try to pull that on me once, Jim. Showed up at my parents house yelling and screaming at 6 am about how I broke her daughters heart bla bla bla. I politely informed her that I wouldn't have "broken her daughters heart" if she hadn't banged Joey at so and so's party (Truth).

I wouldn't trade the look on her face in that moment for anything in the world :)

[Colorado_Outback]

Let me be clear, I am not defending GG daughters actions, it's not about that, it's about the school overstepping those boundaries on a situation that occurred away from school off property that is being addressed by the police and GG, that's the way is should work IMO. I alao know that opinions are like buttholes everybody's got one.

We can agree to disagree on that one. I just think that "its just a prank" and "kids will be kids" are BS excuses. Bullying is a real problem in this country.

Where is the line between "just a prank" and bullying?

What about this kid who was sodomized by his team mates? Was that all in good fun/part of being on the team?
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23505991/sodomy-hazing-leaves-13-year-old-victim-outcast

If thats what it takes to be one of the "cool" kids, ill pass.

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

This is a really long post which I snipped....



I make all these "guesses" because I'll bet that if one of the other girls in the "clique" had been the victim, the parents would have worked it out and the school would have never been involved. They would have probably laughed about it (to some extent), and kept the whole matter to themselves.

Seems like a form of "bullying" to me, but some of that is based on your statements, some my guesses, and a lot of info to which I have no access.


My Conclusion and Opinion:

To me, the reason for the school to justify involvement is because of the Volleyball-relationship of all of the girls.
If the victim had not been on the volleyball team, would the others still have "pranked" her? ...probably not, as she would not have been affiliated with them.

I think that since many of the Volleyball team players conspired to act against another team member, the coach, upon learning about this, determined the "bullying" to be a serious enough "team" problem, independent of the outcome of the prank, and is justified in the school pursing disciplinary actions for this.


...and cannot really disagree with.

BUT:



This did not happen during school, on school property or on school time whatsoever - it was over the weekend. So what business is it of the school at all? The Principal, who's also the volleyball coach, told my wife that she felt it was necessary because the Cherokee owner was a volleyball team member as well, team unity, blah blah blah.


This definitely isn't going to help "team unity" regardless of whether James Bond 007 was correct or not. It is probably extremely counter-productive to that end.
Punish b/c you need to punish and all that (I won't pass judgment on the rest of the thread), but I don't see this promoting this chick getting into the "in crowd" or "team unity" or whatever. I'd have pointed that out.

"Remember that time you got 5 of the 6 starters suspended for a game? We totally love you for that!!!"
Uhh.....no.

[OtterbatHellcat]

Lots of interesting points and views on this....

I think Crays Big post resonated with me the most on this, and I think his first post came close to what I'll say now.. I certainly respect GG, and he knows that.... I kept wondering how he, and his wife and step daughter would feel, had the step daughter been the focus of the prank in the first place. If the young lady in his family was the one being picked on / lost items out on the freeway because of it.

Seems now though, that there were some untruths claimed, and I just hope it all works out in the end. I would add that there is gonna be some "messing with each other" at that age, but there *is* a line to where it becomes bullying. I think kids are treating each other worse now, than what we all did back then. On the sports team and ya messed up? Expect the coach to discipline you. I'm okay with that.

GG, ya only have a couple more years of that to go, right?...Then a break for about 7-8 years, and it starts all over again... Hang in there, Brother.