Is it just me.... or....

[islandermyk]

Every time I go out and zero my rifle before a match that would at most a week away would stay zero'd and after the match zero out the dope/scope and shoot it in another 2 weeks or more and it's way the f*ck off?!

The last P-Dog match in Pueblo I shot horridly! 7 hits out of 40. I went out today to see if my rifle was zeroed. It was way the f*ck off (9 o'clock by a whole mil and 3 clicks high) Shot a string of 3 to confirm and yep.. it was off.

So is this normal to find your rifle off zero when it sits idle for a week or two (or more)?

Nothing is loose externally.... I use "red" loc-tite... and that's not a joke [Coffee]

[BPTactical]

Your eyes are moving around in your head Mike.....nothing to worry about.


Is the shift consistent or random?

[C Ward]

Put a torque wrench on everything , action screws too , something has got to be loose a mil of windage is huge .

[islandermyk]

Your eyes are moving around in your head Mike.....nothing to worry about.


Is the shift consistent or random?

I'm getting random results... and most times it would be right .2 clicks and high at .3 clicks.. unlike today, it was a whole fricken mil left and still with the .2 or .3 clicks high.


Put a torque wrench on everything , action screws too , something has got to be loose a mil of windage is huge .

I'll try running a torque wrench through it again... I really did use "Red loc-tite" on all the screws, but this was months ago... I'd be really surprised if something came loose.

[islandermyk]

I've been thinking.

I have one of those QD AAC cans. The "Brakeout"/muzzle device hasn't been cleaned in months building up with carbon... do you think that will influence the can't of the can without a strike thus influencing the projectile?

I haven't cleaned the muzzle device because it sorta keeps the can on the rifle a lot more solid eliminating the wobble... and when ever I detach the suppressor from the break... small chunks of carbon may fall off the muzzle device.

I should've went with a direct thread on [facepalm]

[XC700116]

I'd get out the ear plugs and see if it changes on either a long string or from one time to the next running it without the can just to eliminate that possibility

[BPTactical]

Random would make me think you have a screw loose.........or two.





Check your base for any indicators of movement/fretting.
If you don't have an in/lb torque wrench, slide by Mikey!
We can double check everything and make sure you are good. At least then that will eliminate mechanical error.
Your thoughts on the can may have some merit.

[asmo]

I am going to put $2 on inconsistent mounting of the human to the rifle.

[smchop]

What kind of optic are you running? Base and rings? Ever box test your scope, or run different distances by dialing and return to zero and shoot your zero and still be on?

[C Ward]

Search SH for the threads on fixing the wobble with the AAC mounts , the can not going back to the same spot every time will give zero shifts . Are you pulling the can in between sessions ? If so leave the can on and see what happens .

[Pike10]

Check your eye relief to the scope. Too far or too close can do that. Don't ask how I know. Could also be inconsistent cheek weld and body position.

[islandermyk]

I am going to put $2 on inconsistent mounting of the human to the rifle.
I wish that were true... that would be a really easy and "cheap" fix, lol!


What kind of optic are you running? Base and rings? Ever box test your scope, or run different distances by dialing and return to zero and shoot your zero and still be on?

Schmidt and Bender PM2 5-25x56
Sphur one piece mount.
In the past I've shot out to 1K yards and then straight back down to a 100 yards to see if it shifted... and it was fine, but this was months ago.


Search SH for the threads on fixing the wobble with the AAC mounts , the can not going back to the same spot every time will give zero shifts . Are you pulling the can in between sessions ? If so leave the can on and see what happens .

I pull the can off every time I store the rifle... if this is what you're asking.
I gone and tried the AAC mount fix... it's on their solid and is hard as hell to remove cause of all the carbon build up on the muzzle device, but it almost feels like the more I put the can on it's starting to get looser. I just emailed AAC to see if they can just convert my can into a direct thread on... this QD ratchet sh*t is already annoying me.

[islandermyk]

Check your eye relief to the scope. Too far or too close can do that. Don't ask how I know. Could also be inconsistent cheek weld and body position.

I've been taught the ways of the parallax[Coffee]

My POA and POI are pretty consistent with the 3 to 5 shot groups I take.
This is probably the rare times someone can say the rifle was shooting crooked [LOL]

[MattR]

I'm gonna guess its the can and/or scope base loose. I had a similar issue once, but no can and the base was loose, I really couldn't feel it until I checked the screws.

[islandermyk]

I'd get out the ear plugs and see if it changes on either a long string or from one time to the next running it without the can just to eliminate that possibility

I may have to try this out... I hate shooting without a can [blah-blah]

[BPTactical]

UnLoctited lefthanded nut behind the trigger.

[C Ward]

Leave the can mounted up next time and see if the zero shifts . Also you want to catch the same thread on the muzzle adaptor every time so it indexes in the same spot every time .

[islandermyk]

I'm gonna guess its the can and/or scope base loose. I had a similar issue once, but no can and the base was loose, I really couldn't feel it until I checked the screws.

I will tear my rifle apart tomorrow... and will update on this.

You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the help... really appreciate it!

[islandermyk]

UnLoctited lefthanded nut behind the trigger.
I'll go through it tomorrow... I think I have enough "Red" loctite in the tool box [Coffee]


Leave the can mounted up next time and see if the zero shifts . Also you want to catch the same thread on the muzzle adaptor every time so it indexes in the same spot every time .

The can indexes the same spot every time... I think that's the way it was designed. It just bothers me that I have to always worry about rezoreing the rifle every time I pull off the can... what a pain...

[MarkCO]

If you ain't sleepin' with it, how do you know someone is not "adjusting" it for you...just sayin' you might be chasing a bad joke on you...

[islandermyk]

If you ain't sleepin' with it, how do you know someone is not "adjusting" it for you...just sayin' you might be chasing a bad joke on you...

dammit... if that "someone" is reading this... please wash the rifle afterwards... my cheek rest has been feeling a lil slippery [ROFL1]

[Monky]

dammit... if that "someone" is reading this... please wash the rifle afterwards... my cheek rest has been feeling a lil slippery [ROFL1]

Should be feeling sticky... I mean... What?


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

[kwando]

I have a fat wrench that you can accurately torque everything down with if you want to use it.

[Great-Kazoo]

Have you considered the powder you're using, in relation to temp shifts? What works great @ 85* might not ~ 10-15*

OR

What you think is your reticule, is actually one loose strand of hair. jest sayin.

[islandermyk]

Should be feeling sticky... I mean... What?


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Yep... you're definitely not on the "who touched it" list [ROFL1]


I have a fat wrench that you can accurately torque everything down with if you want to use it.

Does it make a clicking... or cracking sound when you get the desired torque? [LOL]


Have you considered the powder you're using, in relation to temp shifts? What works great @ 85* might not ~ 10-15*

OR

What you think is your reticule, is actually one loose strand of hair. jest sayin.

Powder is fine... I keep the rounds in my portable ice chest along with my drinks.. [Coffee]


Humidity doesn't help with the reticle issue though [ROFL3]

[Tim K]

I am going to put $2 on inconsistent mounting of the human to the rifle.

Barring the suppressor thing, I'd agree 100%.

Get your zero by standing up after every shot. If you're all over the place, it's you. If you can shoot a good group standing between shots, it's more likely something mechanical.

[islandermyk]

Barring the suppressor thing, I'd agree 100%.

Get your zero by standing up after every shot. If you're all over the place, it's you. If you can shoot a good group standing between shots, it's more likely something mechanical.
I did go through the check list before pulling the trigger after every shot. I was grouping pretty well... aside the point of impact wasn't matching my point of aim with the first shots I did. Once I rezeroed it.. it stayed.
My problem is now that it's dead on with a solid zero... after weeks of just sitting idle... I know I'll end up having to need and rezero it again. Is this common? It should remain zero regardless of how long a rifle sits in the safe ( I could even be talking a year or so), right?

[Tim K]

My zero used to wander all over. I'd shoot down at the OTC and fire a nice tight 5 shot group. I'd reload the mag and shoot another nice tight 5 shot group. The only problem was it would be an MOA or more away from the first one. That went on for months. Once I got the position thing down, it never changed. It took a long time to get there, but my zero is now dead solid.

Inconsistent can mounting could certainly be the culprit. Shoot it, remove the can and reattach. Shoot again. That should tell you.

Seriously, you need to get a .22 trainer. They weigh 1/3 as much and the bullet is in the barrel for three times as long. They are magnifying glasses for problems. They're also a lot of fun to shoot. An accurate trainer and 2,000 rounds of match ammo will teach you lots. Plus, you'll get to shoot the .22 side matches in Pueblo.

[TheBelly]

Barring the suppressor thing, I'd agree 100%.

Get your zero by standing up after every shot. If you're all over the place, it's you. If you can shoot a good group standing between shots, it's more likely something mechanical.

this.

The 'Build and break' drill is phenomenal at exposing bad positioning. Combine it with a dot drill and you've got a good recipe for getting better very fastly. I also doesn't expend too much ammo. Maybe 20 rounds or so, especially if you dry fire your ass off after you build and before you squeeze the round off.

stand up. Get one round. Build your shooting position. Dry fire a crap ton, making sure your reticle doesn't move at all when you dry fire. After 27 perfect dry fires, shoot the one round. Repeat this process 10-20 times.

[C Ward]

2 or 3 tenths moving around and I'd say shooter error but a whole mil is a lot something has got to be moving .

[davsel]

Sounds like a crap scope.
I've got a nice 3-9 Redfield Tracker I'd be willing to offer in trade, if you're serious about fixing this problem.
[Coffee]

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Sounds like a crap scope.
I've got a nice 3-9 Redfield Tracker I'd be willing to offer in trade, if you're serious about fixing this problem.
[Coffee]

Tapatalk only shows the first part of the post.... I thought you were serious about that.... I was going to cry.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[islandermyk]

So I tore the rifle apart... but before I did that... I took my torque wrench all over the rifle and found 4 loose screws.
2 of'em were on the front of the base mount
1 on the rear that keeps the rifle and stock mated

They weren't extremely loose, but when I ran the wrench through'em there was some play before it went click... It wasn't full turns/rotations, but less than a quarter of a turn for sure.

I said 4 didn't I... right? Yeah... a screw was loose in the operators head [ROFL1]

Haven't seen my boom stick in this manner in a while.. so I took a pic.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG2219_zps0e2d13e9.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG2219_zps0e2d13e9.jpg.html)

[islandermyk]

I also cleaned the shit out of the muzzle device and when I put the can on.. there is a little wobble, again... shit... [facepalm]

I also scrubbed the whole rifle down... feels so much smoother [Coffee]

So we'll see... I'll probably try and shoot this thing next week... let all the "Red" loctite cure. [Beer]

[Great-Kazoo]

Sometimes people get distracted.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhLRWP0fFw

[XC700116]

Well, it's good that you found something that could most definitely cause the issue.

[islandermyk]

Well, it's good that you found something that could most definitely cause the issue.

Right... I'm gonna wait till Sunday and retorque'em to make sure they're seated where they're suppose to be at.

[islandermyk]

Sometimes people get distracted.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhLRWP0fFw
Holy f*cken Christ, hahahahahaha!
You're right... this has been a headache for me... now just waiting on the bipod [mop]

[ChunkyMonkey]

Let me put you in Mike's perspective...

<Mike's Fish Eyes> (http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/10189/sexy_cow.jpg)

[islandermyk]

Let me put you in Mike's perspective...

<Mike's Fish Eyes> (http://www.corsasport.co.uk/carimages/10189/sexy_cow.jpg)
[ROFL3]

Where do I sign up [Coffee]

[Great-Kazoo]

Holy f*cken Christ, hahahahahaha!
You're right... this has been a headache for me... now just waiting on the bipod [mop]

That's one of our kids cows, out in Kali

[islandermyk]

So who knew a few loose bolts can f*ck things up, right? [facepalm]

So now that I got everything tight and my bi-pod back. I went out and zeroed the "Long Leg" [Tooth]

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp261/brutaltlr/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG2239_zps91fbeed6.jpg (http://s418.photobucket.com/user/brutaltlr/media/The%20Guns%20and%20shoots%20and%20%20all%20related %20to%20it/IMAG2239_zps91fbeed6.jpg.html)

100 yards 5 shots with the "Lil Bitch"... oh sh*t.. I wish [Coffee]

Took the can on and off in two different sessions... made two of the same kine of groupings. No shift, no complaints... I'm happy again [ROFL3]

[Tim K]

Good to hear. I love it when the problem is mechanical. Much easier on the ego.

[islandermyk]

Good to hear. I love it when the problem is mechanical. Much easier on the ego.
The real fascinating part is while rezeroing it.

That Sphur mount is insane! Torquing everything to spec. My zero wasn't far off with the first 3 shots. I had to go back .2 clicks on elevation (shooting low) and .1 to the right and I was spot on.

I'm happy [Coffee]