Subsonic loads for .223 and .260?

[Tim K]

Seems like it might be fun to work up some subsonic loads for .223 and .260.

I was thinking about the 90g SMK and the 142 SMK. I haven't the foggiest idea where to begin with powder, nor even what types to try.

Anyone with experience?

[MarkCO]

Never bothered with .223, but I have with .308 and .260. Hornady makes a 160 grain .260 bullet that works well since it is actually shorter than the 140s. I started with some .308 subsonic data using magnum pistol powders. Around 10 grains of Trailboss, AA1680 does the trick. Red Dot is an old "red" load favorite, but I have not tried it. I prefer the slower magnum pistol powders over the fast pistol powders. Going to try some LilGun over the winter.

You might try to find an article on loading subsonic .308 loads and read up first. Just remember...hard to blow up a rifle with rifle powder...really easy to do with pistol powder.

[Tim K]

Good tip on the 160. I didn't know it existed.

Trail boss is the "fluffy" stuff, right? I was thinking that might be a good choice.

[spleify]

Will you be running this in a bolt gun or gas gun? I have been curious about trying some loads also but I don't have a .223 bolt gun

[Great-Kazoo]

ARFCOM had a thread showing hogdons data for 223. They show 3.1? MAX grs of titegroup over a 55 gr fmj, @ 1029ish fps. I'm posting from a kindle, so unable to link the hogdons website data. I'm going to roll some for road testing, Hopefully by Monday, I'll post results after.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

ARFCOM had a thread showing hogdons data for 223. They show 3.4? grs of titegroup over a 55 gr fmj, @ 1029ish fps. I'm posting from a kindle, so unable to link the hogdons website data. I'm going to roll some for road testing, Hopefully by Monday, I'll post results after.

I loaded 1 like that with Titegroup. I never shot it though.... Too much of a wuss.

Plus I have 24" barrels.

The data is on Hodgdon's website.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[spleify]

ARFCOM had a thread showing hogdons data for 223. They show 3.4? grs of titegroup over a 55 gr fmj, @ 1029ish fps. I'm posting from a kindle, so unable to link the hogdons website data. I'm going to roll some for road testing, Hopefully by Monday, I'll post results after.

Please let us know Jim

What will you be running it through.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Please let us know Jim

What will you be running it through.

Probably his 18.5" 5.56mm bolt gun... With a can...

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Great-Kazoo]

Please let us know Jim

What will you be running it through.

Mossberg MVP 20" bbl, then, depending on results. Possibly one of my cheaper ARs


Probably his 18.5" 5.56mm bolt gun... With a can...

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

Since it "should" be subsonic, there's no reason to run a can. Also, I have concerns, regarding baffle strike issues. Especially with a fps, that slow.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

Mossberg NOV 20" bbl, then, depending on results. Possibly one of my cheaper ARs



Since it "should" be subsonic, there's no reason to run a can. Also, I have concerns, regarding baffle strike issues. Especially with a fps, that slow.

Right... I have concerns about running them out of my 24" barrels without putting a ton of lube down the barrel first.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Great-Kazoo]

Right... I have concerns about running them out of my 24" barrels without putting a ton of lube down the barrel first.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

NEVER LUBE a bbl. You create restrictions , that may cause a nasty / expensive OOPS. Even to yourself.

[JM Ver. 2.0]

NEVER LUBE a bbl. You create restrictions , that may cause a nasty / expensive OOPS. Even to yourself.

Right.... you lube the bullet. I read some dude talking about how he sticks his in crisco.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

[Tim K]

I hadn't considered barrel length and bullets getting stuck. I guess that's why .300 Blackout barrels are mostly (if not all) 16". My .260 bolt gun has a 27" barrel. Maybe that rules it out as a candidate? The .223 load is for an AR with an 18" White Oak barrel. I don't care if it doesn't cycle the action.

[Great-Kazoo]

I can shoot one of those red box colibri primer only 22's out of anything up to 16" . Anything longer and it's bust out the wooden dowel. Outside of the bolt action, who owns 16" AR's ??

ETA: Tite group 223 subsonic data Taken from the reloading forum on arfcom
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/407031_Reloading_Subsonic.html

"Hodgdons 2013 Annual Manual" several times, but just noticed this load yesterday.
pg 77 left side, 2nd from bottom

55gr. Hornady FMJ
2.200"
Trail boss 4.0 1074
Titegroup 3.1 1064 4,000 cup
Clays 3.2 1060 3,700 cup


And this

2.7gr to 3.1gr titegroup
55gr FMJ
MIN COAL 2.200
Max should get you 1064fps.

This is straight from the Lee 2nd edition

Know what i'm squeezing in some time for today, or tomorrow.

[Tim K]

Some research on the Hide makes it appear I could find a load for the .260 using trailboss. Others are making it work. Time to go powder shopping.

[Great-Kazoo]

Some research on the Hide makes it appear I could find a load for the .260 using trailboss. Others are making it work. Time to go powder shopping.

when you find some (any powder) pm me. Always willing to save on hazmat.

[Tim K]

I have my Trailboss. I'd like to start with the .260 load. Initially, I was going to use my usual 142 SMK, but they are unobtanium right now and I don't want to cut into my remaining 4 month supply for this silly project.

Are there any lead bullets in 6.5mm? I know exactly nothing about lead rifle bullets. Would they even make sense to try? They might come lubed already, and I'd guess barrel wear would be reduced, too. If that makes no sense, I may try the Lapua 139 Scenar since they are available.

I have a crazy desire to shoot a PD match subsonic. Dumb, I know, but it sounds like fun.

[skullybones]

After yesterdays wind... I want a bullet moving at light speed.

Check out Eggleston Munitions. http://www.egglestonmunitions.com/
Chris is local and might be able to help you out. He has been great to deal with so far. I know he is prototyping for certain rifle rounds.
We can always make a mold if it works out too.

[Great-Kazoo]

I have my Trailboss. I'd like to start with the .260 load. Initially, I was going to use my usual 142 SMK, but they are unobtanium right now and I don't want to cut into my remaining 4 month supply for this silly project.

Are there any lead bullets in 6.5mm? I know exactly nothing about lead rifle bullets. Would they even make sense to try? They might come lubed already, and I'd guess barrel wear would be reduced, too. If that makes no sense, I may try the Lapua 139 Scenar since they are available.

I have a crazy desire to shoot a PD match subsonic. Dumb, I know, but it sounds like fun.

I have a guy casting me some hard cast 223's in a 53gr. Those should not be loaded over 3000fps. which i can load light with standard powder or maintain the 1K fps with TG.

[Tim K]

Jim, are they pointy or round nose? I think I understand round nose to be more accurate subsonic.

[Great-Kazoo]

Jim, are they pointy or round nose? I think I understand round nose to be more accurate subsonic.

I'll know mid week, hopefully. I gave the guy a 3 gal bucket of wheel weights, he is giving me 1K of them, as a thank you.

[Danimal]

I read this thread all the time and want to get in on this. I just need to finish up all of my other projects before starting a new one. Jim can you post some pics of the cast rounds? I might just have to start looking at some .223 molds... and roll this into my subsonic powder coating trials.

[RANGERRON72]

Post above on www.hodgdon.com (http://www.hodgdon.com) for Clay powder behind a 55 gr FMJ in 223 is a good comment. I use it for my AR with a Thunderbeast 223P suppressor........very nice. A word of warning that I never knew until a very accomplished reloader and competitive shooter in his 90's shared this fact with me.......... Loading Manuals have minimum charge data for a reason. Below the minimum, it is possible to "blow up" a rifle.

Be careful when creating subsonic loads