View Full Version : "check engine" light
StagLefty
10-03-2013, 11:35
Last weekend when Skully was looking for help siphoning gas from one of his vehicles I offered to help with a Super Siphon hose I had.
Some one else mentioned that the newer vehicles have an obstruction in the filler tube that prevents that now.
Sure enough I tried it in my truck and could only get the hose in about 4". Next morning when I went out the check engine light was on and stayed on. First time since I owned this truck.
Did I hit some kind of sensor ? I've checked all the normal things fluids,air filter etc. and all seems fine. Truck is running fine.
I'm guessing with all the sensors on vehicles now that I may have caused this myself. Any clues from you motor vehicle guys would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. [Beer]
streetglideok
10-03-2013, 11:42
Go by Autozone, and have them pull the code(s). Don't let them sell you their trash. You likely have an evap emissions code, P0440-P0450. Make sure your gas cap is tight, three clicks or whatever it says to tighten it to. Have them clear the codes if it is an evap code and your cap wasn't tight.
BushMasterBoy
10-03-2013, 11:42
I'm guessing it the gas cap. Autozone or any major parts retailer should have a code reader to tell you what the error code is and will check it for free.
ruthabagah
10-03-2013, 12:13
If you do have a newer Ford SUV/Truck with no gas cap, there is indeed a switch/sensor that maybe jammed. It happened recently to a coworker on his Explorer. Just my 10 cents.
BigNick73
10-03-2013, 13:05
Yup, sensor. Go on ebay and you can get OBDII reader for $10. This is the one I use http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-ELM327-V1-5-Interface-Bluetooth-OBD-2-OBD-II-Car-Diagnostic-Auto-Scanner-/310678002251?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4855da1a4b
The bluetooth one wont work with iphone, need the wifi version for that but runs great on my samsung android tablet. I use the torque app on droid (about $5).
My light came on yesterday too. Cars running fine though. I will get to it this weekend.
I've got an OBD II scanner if you want to swing by and pull the codes off.
StagLefty
10-03-2013, 17:29
^ pm sent-I'd like to see these toys you young un's are talking about. [Beer]
^ pm sent-I'd like to see these toys you young un's are talking about. [Beer]
lol it may sound impressive but it's just a crappy little plastic box with a chip in it.
OtterbatHellcat
10-03-2013, 18:42
You could also just disconnect the battery and reset the PCM. If the code comes back again, it's a hard fault.
Sounds like maybe when you hit the obstruction-flapper valve-it didn't seat back properly and set a code for an evap leak.
Might have to take the filler tube hose off the gas tank and check that it's moving freely and not stuck.
OtterbatHellcat
10-03-2013, 18:58
Good idea, Z .
StagLefty
10-03-2013, 19:29
You could also just disconnect the battery and reset the PCM. If the code comes back again, it's a hard fault.
PCM ?
OtterbatHellcat
10-03-2013, 19:53
Yes, your main electronic control module.
Remove the ground cable from the battery for several minutes...do not have your key (ignition) in the ON position for this.
Reconnect and start vehicle. If no engine light....drive truck around the block once or twice. If no light, I think you're good.
If the light comes back on, on restart or during your short test drive, the hard fault is set. I'd follow others advice at that point and get the actual code your truck has *somewhere* (auto store, etc) ...and Z has some solid advice about the filler neck if your light/code still exists.
tmleadr03
10-03-2013, 19:55
You could also just disconnect the battery and reset the PCM. If the code comes back again, it's a hard fault.
Modern cars don't do that. Has to be told to shut of or you have to disconnect the batter for a very long time.
The auto parts stores won't reset the codes for you. At least they wouldn't for me. They stated a concern that someone may want to just get their emissions tested after the reset and before the problem showed up again.
I purchased a bluetooth OBD II scanner on Amazon and used the Torque android app to get the codes on my Tahoe when I had an issue. Was also able to reset the code myself.
BigNick73
10-03-2013, 20:25
Yes, your main electronic control module.
Remove the ground cable from the battery for several minutes...do not have your key (ignition) in the ON position for this.
Reconnect and start vehicle. If no engine light....drive truck around the block once or twice. If no light, I think you're good.
If the light comes back on, on restart or during your short test drive, the hard fault is set. I'd follow others advice at that point and get the actual code your truck has *somewhere* (auto store, etc) ...and Z has some solid advice about the filler neck if your light/code still exists.
On the newer ones you need to turn the lights on and try to start it with the battery disconnected or wait a really long time to fully drain the system. Otherwise it'll hold the information. Also car may run rough for a minute or gas mileage drop for a short time when it restarts after this as the computer needs to relearn what setting it had before.
OBD scanners are so cheap now that it's almost pointless to not have one though, and then you can reset it yourself w/o all the hassle.
OtterbatHellcat
10-03-2013, 20:29
Alright, I'm not gonna argue with anyone about what I do for a living every day.
Stag, good luck, brother...I hope it ends up being a simple fix.
I appreciate everyone trying to help a brother out.
Did they just recently change the emission law that you CAN have a check engine light, or that you can not? I remember it used to be that as long as you passed, it didn't matter if a light was on or not.
tmleadr03
10-03-2013, 20:36
Did they just recently change the emission law that you CAN have a check engine light, or that you can not? I remember it used to be that as long as you passed, it didn't matter if a light was on or not.
I have had customers make it through with a check engine light, but not with a check engine and a ABS warning light. Have to have the ABS light off before it gets on the dyno.
tmleadr03
10-03-2013, 20:38
On the newer ones you need to turn the lights on and try to start it with the battery disconnected or wait a really long time to fully drain the system. Otherwise it'll hold the information. Also car may run rough for a minute or gas mileage drop for a short time when it restarts after this as the computer needs to relearn what setting it had before.
OBD scanners are so cheap now that it's almost pointless to not have one though, and then you can reset it yourself w/o all the hassle.
I have had cars come in with codes, disconnected the battery started taking stuff apart, waited on parts and days later got the vehicle back together and the codes were still in the system.
If you turn off your PC computer do you lose all the information stored on it?
BigNick73
10-03-2013, 21:27
I have had cars come in with codes, disconnected the battery started taking stuff apart, waited on parts and days later got the vehicle back together and the codes were still in the system.
If you turn off your PC computer do you lose all the information stored on it?
Well I'm not a professional mechanic, but I've got a 07 jeep and 08 Subaru. On either one if I d/c the battery, wait 10 minutes and reconnect the CEL will be there when I restarted, but hit the lights or ignition and really drain it the CEL would clear. Now if it was a legit problem it'd pop back up, maybe after a few seconds, maybe after driving for a day. The POS jeep is bad about having random issues from elevation changes, like vail pass. I've reset it on the side of the road a few times using that method since sometimes it'll actually effect how it's running, but d/c the battery, turn the key with the lights on, reconnect batt. and it'll go back to normal, and CEL won't come back.
Also had to use that method for clearing codes on a 97 f150 I had years ago (first OBDII vehicle I ever owned). Had a vacuum leak that was giving me a lean code and wouldn't clear on its own even after it was repaired, seemed easier than driving back to napa to use the scan tool.
The way I understand it the control module has a capacitor in it that supplies enough power to hold the information, and it can hold out for a very very long time, that's why you turn on the ignition or something else to drain it. Kind of the same way your BIOS settings on your PC stay even with the power off until that little button battery on the motherboard goes dead and then you're redoing all the settings every time you turn it back on.
I could be way off on all of this but it's how I've always understood that stuff to work on the newer cars. The really new stuff might have some sort of solid state memory that doesn't need power.
JMBD2112
10-03-2013, 22:37
In most vehicles It's actually a rollover valve to help prevent fuel spillage in an accident. It shouldn't cause an evap code because it doesn't seal anything, the gas cap does. Kinda hard to diagnose a vehicle from the computer. If you're ever down in my neck of the woods anytime soon you can use my scanner
I just want to know why you were trying to steal your own gas?
StagLefty
10-04-2013, 08:29
I just want to know why you were trying to steal your own gas?
Read first post.
Read first post.
I know I was just kidding
I'll just: [gohome]
I just want to know why you were trying to steal your own gas?
It is a new thing all the cool kids are doing these days.
Read first post.
I hope you not in some way blaming me for your "Check engine light" I didn't ask you to stick your hose thingy down the filler. [Coffee]
Serious note I have this feeling it is a coincidence. If you look at the filler / line down to the tank if you see wires to a sensor then maybe but I have never seen a sensor in that area. Newer cars do tell you if you need to replace your gas cap. Wife's 2008 Commander (the one I was trying to transfer the gas out) did it to us, it has a dedicated idiot light that lite up and said "check engine gas cap." sure as shit simple fix. I believe the fuel system is closed loop and somewhere there is a sensor that tells the computer it has a pressure leak and figures it is the gas cap. Not sure how it knows it is that or a leak with the carbon canister or lines.
How far have you gotten to figure it out?
StagLefty
10-05-2013, 08:27
Getting with Bogie today hopefully. He has one of those scanner thingies.
Skully on advice of my lawyer I can't discuss this with you [Sarcasm2]
tmleadr03
10-05-2013, 08:37
It is a new thing all the cool kids are doing these days.
It pressurizes the system and measures the drop of pressure. A large amount o pressure drop means it is most likely the gas cap since otherwise it would be a small hole elsewhere in the system. So a slower pressure drop. More of an educated guess then a "known" variable.
I hope you not in some way blaming me for your "Check engine light" I didn't ask you to stick your hose thingy down the filler. [Coffee]
Serious note I have this feeling it is a coincidence. If you look at the filler / line down to the tank if you see wires to a sensor then maybe but I have never seen a sensor in that area. Newer cars do tell you if you need to replace your gas cap. Wife's 2008 Commander (the one I was trying to transfer the gas out) did it to us, it has a dedicated idiot light that lite up and said "check engine gas cap." sure as shit simple fix. I believe the fuel system is closed loop and somewhere there is a sensor that tells the computer it has a pressure leak and figures it is the gas cap. Not sure how it knows it is that or a leak with the carbon canister or lines.
How far have you gotten to figure it out?
Formatting error being blamed on posting from cell phone.
rockhound
10-05-2013, 08:37
That'll teach you to be careful where you stick your hose
StagLefty
10-05-2013, 09:34
I went out a little while ago and disconnected the battery and took the opportunity to clean up all the connections. Waited awhile and reconnected and started it up and no more light !!
Thanks for all the hints. I knew this was the place to ask first. [Coffee]
I recommend that anyone with a vehicle out of manufacturer's warranty invest in an OBD-II reader. There's not much worse than having to take your vehicle to someone for them to tell you what's wrong with it. Sure, Autozone and others will check it for free, but how big of a pain is it to drive a car there when you know the car isn't working right to begin with?
Just my 2 cents [Flower]
Hopefully the CEL behaves and doesn't come back anytime soon.
I never realized OBD-II readers were so cheap. I've hardly owned a car that didn't have a check engine light on.
StagLefty
10-05-2013, 11:12
Any recommendations for a cost effective scanner ?
Any recommendations for a cost effective scanner ?
This is the one I have.. It's about the cheapest thing you can get, but it will pull the codes and clear them:
http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan-MS300-Diagnostic-Vehicles/dp/B001LHVOVK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1
You're welcome to it whenever if you don't want to buy one.
tmleadr03
10-05-2013, 11:42
Any recommendations for a cost effective scanner ?
Not this one if you are looking for low cost options.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130912_162824_zps60d4f6f8.jpg
Not this one if you are looking for low cost options.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y69/tmleadr03/20130912_162824_zps60d4f6f8.jpg
Jeez dude, are you interfacing with "KITT"???
tmleadr03
10-05-2013, 12:01
Jeez dude, are you interfacing with "KITT"???
KITT was simplistic compared to this. PC based tablet scantool with four channel lab scope.
This is the one I have; http://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-PIC18F2480-diagnostics-compatible/dp/B005NLQAHS/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1381002518&sr=1-1&keywords=bluetooth+obdii
I was able to do what I needed to with the free version of the Torque Android app, but I liked it so much, I bought the full-blown app.
OtterbatHellcat
10-05-2013, 21:41
Is that a Verus?
If it is, congrats on having the $10,000 on hand to buy it and keeping it updated.
tmleadr03
10-05-2013, 21:55
Is that a Verus?
If it is, congrats on having the $10,000 on hand to buy it and keeping it updated.
What's it doing in a $100 toolbox?
Verus Pro. I have had it on "Demo" for over a month now. Should be signing a contract on it with Snapon this week.
Cost of doing business. I use a scan tool and a scope daily in my shop.
That is list price, I never pay list on tools.
And lets be honest, it doesn't matter what type of tool box it is in, I keep it in a 4700 sq ft shop, not a tool box.
OtterbatHellcat
10-05-2013, 21:58
It's a nice scanner for sure.
FTR..I did edit that last part of that post, didn't sound cheery...didn't want to be misconstrued. Too late, obviously.
OtterbatHellcat
10-05-2013, 22:00
I'm glad that Stag doesn't have an engine light on anymore.
tmleadr03
10-05-2013, 23:08
It's a nice scanner for sure.
FTR..I did edit that last part of that post, didn't sound cheery...didn't want to be misconstrued. Too late, obviously.
Meh. Not a big deal. Hell, till just a year and a half ago I had a double bay craftsman top and bottom box and a roll around craftsman tool cart. Both were packed to the gills and I was shuffling through the drawers to find what I needed. When I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet I spent close to 6 months being as cheap as humanly possible finding my tool box.
streetglideok
10-05-2013, 23:23
As much as I like what the Verus can do, I couldn't push myself to pay the cost of one. I keep a Solus Pro in my box, euro and up to date. I'll spend my cash on 13.4 a month before 14.2 comes out and save some cash. Any real diagnostic technician owns a labscope and knows how to use it. Vantage Pro for that, though I wish they made it a 4channel some times. The cheap code readers will give you codes, but don't plan on accurately diagnosing squat with them(unless you get lucky a lot at Blackhawk). Life is a lot easier, and simpler with a live view of the data, something that the cheap scanners will not give you. They give you a basic list of things, but you're missing a lot. Granted we have some pricey toys, a lot more than a guy at home will spend.
tmleadr03
10-06-2013, 07:24
As much as I like what the Verus can do, I couldn't push myself to pay the cost of one. I keep a Solus Pro in my box, euro and up to date. I'll spend my cash on 13.4 a month before 14.2 comes out and save some cash. Any real diagnostic technician owns a labscope and knows how to use it. Vantage Pro for that, though I wish they made it a 4channel some times. The cheap code readers will give you codes, but don't plan on accurately diagnosing squat with them(unless you get lucky a lot at Blackhawk). Life is a lot easier, and simpler with a live view of the data, something that the cheap scanners will not give you. They give you a basic list of things, but you're missing a lot. Granted we have some pricey toys, a lot more than a guy at home will spend.
Solus Pro is a very good tool. Used one for the last two years. What really pulled me towards the verus is being able to side by side what the computer sees vs what the actual sensor sees. Very slick. 4 channel scope is pretty slick two. Used that on this 850 in the shop monitoring both throttle bodies at the same time. Honestly it has so many features I am going to make the diagnostic guy some out and give me a class on it. I don't have time to poke around and find the features.
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 07:57
Don't know if you were aware of this, but there are 10ft long leads available for the vantage pro/verict and the modis/verus. Think its aeswave.com IIRC. Not cheap but the extra reach would be nice in some situations. I had a smoking deal offered by a local tool guy for the verdict when a shop closed down. Gives you wireless for the scanner part like what you have, and the meter part as well. Sadly it's only two channel as well. I've made due with two channels for the last 4 years though.
tmleadr03
10-06-2013, 08:10
Don't know if you were aware of this, but there are 10ft long leads available for the vantage pro/verict and the modis/verus. Think its aeswave.com IIRC. Not cheap but the extra reach would be nice in some situations. I had a smoking deal offered by a local tool guy for the verdict when a shop closed down. Gives you wireless for the scanner part like what you have, and the meter part as well. Sadly it's only two channel as well. I've made due with two channels for the last 4 years though.
130 isn't bad for that. But I am such a tool whore I don't have good judgement on that type of thing.
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 09:37
Aww I made you look,lol. Its not a bad price, I really don't know why I haven't bought some yet. Sometimes you can't put a price on things you need. Thank god my wife has no clue what I blow on a tool truck!
tmleadr03
10-06-2013, 09:48
Aww I made you look,lol. Its not a bad price, I really don't know why I haven't bought some yet. Sometimes you can't put a price on things you need. Thank god my wife has no clue what I blow on a tool truck!
AMEN! It would be quite the fight if she found out what my weekly payments were right now.
Hi, my name is Chris and I am a tool junky.
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 10:15
I made the mistake of telling my wife about my buying the vantage pro, on a truck account so no interest. When she asked how much, I got the [Eek2] . I didn't repeat that when I bought the Solus, the last two updates, or the euro for it,lol. I don't tell her squat now, and if she comes by... that solus, that's such and such's tool,lol.
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