Can we sell 20rd mags to someone out of state?

[Celt]

I've heard conflicting information.

[sniper7]

What was that program in the military? Don't ask don't tell...something like that....

[merl]

By my reading of the law, no.


http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013a/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/7E6713B015E62E6F87257B0100813CB5?open&file=1224_enr.pdf

18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions.
(1) (a) EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS SECTION,ON AND AFTER JULY 1, 2013,A PERSON WHO SELLS,TRANSFERS,OR POSSESSES A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE COMMITS A CLASS 2MISDEMEANOR.
Section 1 defines a magazine.
Section 2 explains who may possess a mag.
Section 3 is exemptions, this is where out of state would apply.

(3) THE OFFENSE DESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION (1)OF THIS SECTION SHALL NOT APPLY TO:
(a) AN ENTITY,OR ANY EMPLOYEE THEREOF ENGAGED IN HIS OR HER EMPLOYMENT DUTIES,THAT MANUFACTURES LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES WITHIN COLORADO EXCLUSIVELY FOR TRANSFER TO,OR ANY LICENSED GUN DEALER,AS DEFINED IN SECTION 12-26.1-106 (6), C.R.S.,OR ANY EMPLOYEE THEREOF ENGAGED IN HIS OR HER OFFICIAL EMPLOYMENT DUTIES,THAT SELLS LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES EXCLUSIVELY TO:


(I) A BRANCH OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES;
(II) A DEPARTMENT,AGENCY,OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE OF COLORADO,OR OF ANY OTHER STATE,OR OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT;
(III) A FIREARMS RETAILER FOR THE PURPOSE OF FIREARMS SALES CONDUCTED OUTSIDE THE STATE;
(IV) A FOREIGN NATIONAL GOVERNMENT THAT HAS BEEN APPROVED FOR SUCH TRANSFERS BY THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT;OR
(V) AN OUT-OF-STATE TRANSFEREE WHO MAY LEGALLY POSSESS A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE;OR

(b) AN EMPLOYEE OF ANY OF THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES WHO BEARS A FIREARM IN THE COURSE OF HIS OR HER OFFICIAL DUTIES:


(I) A BRANCH OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES;OR
(II) A DEPARTMENT,AGENCY,OR POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THE STATE OF COLORADO,OR OF ANY OTHER STATE,OR OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT;OR

(c) A PERSON WHO POSSESSES THE MAGAZINE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TRANSPORTING THE MAGAZINE TO AN OUT-OF-STATE ENTITY ON BEHALF OF A MANUFACTURER OF LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINES WITHIN COLORADO.




So 3.a doesnt apply to private citizens, 3.b does not apply to private citizens, and 3.c applies to USPS/UPS/FEDEX/etc. I find it amusing that 3C does not apply when a "licensed gun dealer" ships a magazine, only from manufacturers.

A private citizen of Colorado may not transfer a magazine with >15 round capacity to anybody.
Only companies and their employees that are licensed gun dealers or magazine manufacturers may transfer magazines and only then to a select class of destinations.

[crays]

If you're hell-bent on getting rid of them, drop them off at my house, and I will make sure they are disposed of properly. [Coffee]

[Zundfolge]

Wow, that's some poorly written shit right there.


Law that poorly written undermines the entire concept of "The Law".

[clark]

Wow, that's some poorly written shit right there.


Law that poorly written undermines the entire concept of "The Law".

Well consider the source....bunch of friking idiots

[BlasterBob]

18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions.
(1) (a) EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS SECTION,ON AND AFTER JULY 1, 2013,A PERSON WHO SELLS,TRANSFERS,OR POSSESSES A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE COMMITS A CLASS 2MISDEMEANOR.

Very strange wording of the new law and I cannot see how the State of Colorado could possibly police these sales when the sales are actually being made in a State where the sales and transfer of these magazines are still legal.???

[hatidua]

I cannot see how the State of Colorado could possibly police these sales when the sales are actually being made in a State where the sales and transfer of these magazines are still legal.???

Therein lies the thorn in the side of the legislators that they would prefer not to think about.

[Rabid]

18-12-302. Large-capacity magazines prohibited - penalties - exceptions.
(1) (a) EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PROVIDED IN THIS SECTION,ON AND AFTER JULY 1, 2013,A PERSON WHO SELLS,TRANSFERS,OR POSSESSES A LARGE-CAPACITY MAGAZINE COMMITS A CLASS 2MISDEMEANOR.

Very strange wording of the new law and I cannot see how the State of Colorado could possibly police these sales when the sales are actually being made in a State where the sales and transfer of these magazines are still legal.???
Believe it or not they can still enforce a law even if it was broken out of state.

Extraterritorial jurisdiction in international law:
Because each government is supreme, it can enact whatever statutes it wishes. Thus, State A would have the power to make a law which, for example, made it an offence to smoke in the streets of State B, a neighbouring state. State A could employ officers and equip them with cameras. These officers could then collect evidence in State B and, when its citizens returned home, State A could prosecute them for breach of the law. But State A's law could not be directly effective in State B because that would make State B less than sovereign. Similarly, State A could not seek the extradition of its own citizens from State B unless State B was formally to consent (usually through the negotiation of a treaty including the particular offence).

So with the wording of the law it is illegal to sell it even out of state. What evidence would the have if you did, none but you would still be breaking the law.

[Great-Kazoo]

Based on dealing with out of state LOCAL and FEDERAL LE's. 99% in your favor no one will say shit, arrest, prosecute or any other legal action against you and the buyer. This is for magazines NOT A FIREARM.
Want to really make out, without fear of arrest ? Steal a credit card, binge with purchases of $50 or less. Rack up $5 K and see what the result is.

[buckshotbarlow]

Colorado law, ends at the border though...WY,NE,KS,NM,UT,OK will not enforce CO law inside of their borders...

[spqrzilla]

Colorado law, ends at the border though...WY,NE,KS,NM,UT,OK will not enforce CO law inside of their borders...

That's not exactly correct. Colorado law does not necessarily "end" at the border. The scope of jurisdiction of a state's laws is far far more complex than that. But its irrelevant to the question of the thread, which is whether or not a Colorado resident can transfer those magazines to an out of state resident (note that an FFL can), and by a strict reading of the text, the answer is no, a Colorado resident may not. And Colorado can certainly regulate the conduct of its residents, especially within the borders of Colorado.

[Irving]

And Colorado can certainly regulate the conduct of its residents, especially within the borders of Colorado.

Sounds like schools suspending students for things not done at the school.

[spqrzilla]

Sounds like schools suspending students for things not done at the school.

Well, all except for the part where Colorado LEO have statutory powers and school principals don't ...

[buckshotbarlow]

That's not exactly correct. Colorado law does not necessarily "end" at the border. The scope of jurisdiction of a state's laws is far far more complex than that. But its irrelevant to the question of the thread, which is whether or not a Colorado resident can transfer those magazines to an out of state resident (note that an FFL can), and by a strict reading of the text, the answer is no, a Colorado resident may not. And Colorado can certainly regulate the conduct of its residents, especially within the borders of Colorado.

So you really really think that the almighty chickenlooper and company have any enforcement outside of the border? I think not. There's not a single entity from this state that can enforce this garbage outside of state lines.

[spqrzilla]

buckshotbarlow, its not clear what you think you are referring to. As to whether someone located out of state could be prosecuted under Colorado law e.g., the magazine ban, it depends on the specific facts. You have heard of extradition, haven't you?

[kidicarus13]

Agreeing with buckshotbarlow on this one. There is no extradition without arrest so who again is arresting someone outside of Colorado for a Colorado law?

[Aloha_Shooter]

I think spqrzilla's point is that you CAN be prosecuted under Colorado law despite committing the "crime" outside Colorado. Colorado law enforcement can request arrest and extradition from authorities in other states -- that's pretty standard. The chances of Colorado going to those extremes over you selling or giving a high capacity magazine to a citizen of another state where said item is legal are probably pretty slim and you could always appeal for asylum but it's within the state's legal powers and the contention, "Colorado law, ends at the border though...WY,NE,KS,NM,UT,OK will not enforce CO law inside of their borders..." is patently false.

[Rabid]

Start reading up on my quote from my first post. Yes, it is now illegal for any person in Colorado to sell a magazine over 15 rounds anywhere by the way the law is written. I really is the simple! What happens if you do? more then likely nothing but it is still illegal if you enter Colorado ever again citizen or not. There are no work arounds of the law if you are in Colorado even if it was done out of state or even if you are not a resident of the state. Keep believing you are a free man if you want but as long as you are in Colorado it is illegal. Do you want this madness to end, then donate to Kopel's and the sheriff's law suit.

[BlasterBob]

I suppose the next thing will be that if you make a permanent move out of the great State of Colorado to a State where high capacity mags are perfectly legal, you won't be able to take em along with you.

[hatidua]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/hatidua/baby-steps_zps88ffc660.jpg

[BlasterBob]

Is this new [pileoshit]law expected to prevent us from even selling our unneeded high capacity magazine to an FFL in this State or even to an FFL in another State? It appears what ever high capacity mags we currently have, we are expected to still have them in our possession when we are placed "under the sod" -- unless the current law is somewhat "adjusted".......... [Mad]

[SideShow Bob]

To the OP, why would someone "out of State" want to buy illegal magazines from you in Colorado, when they can get them on the free market in their state ? There are two or three possibilities here,
A.) These same magazines are also illegal in their state, which would make you prosecutable there.
B.) This is a setup from our state prosecutors looking to find a sucker to make a bust to further their political careers.
C.) you are just greedy and want to make a few extra bucks on a firearm you are trying to sell.

You need to hang on to every magazine you have after all, according to Rap Sheet Rhonda "once the bullets are shot out of the magazine, they are no good after that.".............

[Circuits]

I suppose the next thing will be that if you make a permanent move out of the great State of Colorado to a State where high capacity mags are perfectly legal, you won't be able to take em along with you.
Not as written, but the dims could certainly add that in later.

[merl]

To the OP, why would someone "out of State" want to buy illegal magazines from you in Colorado, when they can get them on the free market in their state ? There are two or three possibilities here,
A.) These same magazines are also illegal in their state, which would make you prosecutable there.
B.) This is a setup from our state prosecutors looking to find a sucker to make a bust to further their political careers.
C.) you are just greedy and want to make a few extra bucks on a firearm you are trying to sell.

You need to hang on to every magazine you have after all, according to Rap Sheet Rhonda "once the bullets are shot out of the magazine, they are no good after that.".............

I thought that was Degette that said that.

[SideShow Bob]

I thought that was Degette that said that.

Could have been, I tend to get the Demecraps mixed up.............

[def90]

I thought that was Degette that said that.

yep.. Degette

[Rabid]

I thought that was Degette that said that.
It was.

[BlasterBob]

So if you want to sell or trade your AR with a FFL dealer here in our State or to a FFL in another State, you should NOT furnish the hi capacity mag with it - you just have to hang on to it for ever.

[BlasterBob]

So if you want to sell or trade your AR with a FFL dealer here in our State or to a FFL in another State, you should NOT furnish the hi capacity mag with it - you just have to hang on to it for ever.

Thought sure SOMEONE would jump on that one. I am now seriously wondering about this type sale/transfer.

[merl]

So if you want to sell or trade your AR with a FFL dealer here in our State or to a FFL in another State, you should NOT furnish the hi capacity mag with it - you just have to hang on to it for ever.

Legally that is all you can do with it.
Suppose you could crush it flat and recycle/trash it or surrender it to the police but other than moving out of the state you have to keep it.

[BlasterBob]

Legally that is all you can do with it.
Suppose you could crush it flat and recycle/trash it or surrender it to the police but other than moving out of the state you have to keep it.

I think that if for some reason I HAD to turn it in to some form of LEO, I'd take a hammer and put a huge dent (one that would make the mag impossible to ever use) on the body of the mag to lessen the chance of it ever winding up in the possession of some LEO's brother, cousin friend or neighbor. I am NOT "bashing" the LEOs with that thought.

[Big E3]

In a related story. I was over at a friends house disassembling some 30 rounders to clean, when I got an urgent call and had to leave. I didn't have time to reassemble and take the mags home, so in an attempt to maintain possession, I put the "parts" in a box slapped a mailing label on them and shipped them to myself. The package never arrived, the next thing I know, some guy in another state sends me a check totaling $20 for each group of lost mag parts to help fund my search. I never did find those mag parts. Looking back, I'm just grateful I shipped parts just in case they end up in the wrong hands.