View Full Version : If you had any doubt...
generalmeow
10-05-2013, 22:28
About if the republicans are serious about this shutdown:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/05/house-passes-bill-to-retroactively-pay-federal-workers-after-government-shutdown-ends/
Passed unanimously. Why in the hell would we pay people for not working? All these federal workers are now on a paid vacation, thanks to republicans.
Do you get paid when you don't work?
If you're not an essential federal employee, not only do I think you shouldn't get paid to not work, I don't think you should have a job with the federal government, period.
republicans are for big and wasteful government. Time for the party to go away. You're either a "tea partier", or you're a liberal.
stoner01
10-05-2013, 22:36
I want a paid vacation...
Where have you been for the last 17 federal shutdowns?
Every time the federal government has been shut down, the non-essential employees always get back pay. EVERY TIME!
60% of federal employees are considered essential and 40% are considered non-essential. There is a vague notion about why some employees are or are not essential, but it has never made any sense to me who is and who is not. I often wish I was non-essential. I would like a paid vacation without using my leave.
The SecDef just recalled over 300k non-essential federal DOD employees. This had nothing to do with a budget or CR being passed. Hagel just did it. I guess because he wanted to.
If the Senate and the President cared about getting the rest of the government back to work, all they have to do is accept a budget without funding for the ACA. So who shut down the government?
The President of the United States.
generalmeow
10-05-2013, 23:00
Nothing says fiscally responsible like "we believe you're not necessary, and we know you're not working, but you're very valuable and were going to pay you anyways." Something tells me republicans have no intention of shrinking the size of government. Duh.
Nothing says fiscally responsible like "we believe you're not necessary, and we know you're not working, but you're very valuable and were going to pay you anyways." Something tells me republicans have no intention of shrinking the size of government. Duh.
And the Democrats do?
I will go with the party that at least wants to defund parts of the government and government services like Obamacare. I will go with the party (at least for the moment) that is still working on trying to fund most of the government while the Democrats point fingers and use the willing media to blame others for their failures.
Here is an interesting read on Who Shut Down the Government:
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/10/04/who-shut-down-the-government-n1716292/page/full
generalmeow
10-05-2013, 23:10
And the Democrats do?
I will go with the party that at least wants to defund parts of the government and government services like Obamacare. I will go with the party (at least for the moment) that is still working on trying to fund most of the government while the Democrats point fingers and use the willing media to blame others for their failures.
Here is an interesting read on Who Shut Down the Government:
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/10/04/who-shut-down-the-government-n1716292/page/full
If republicans want to defund parts of the government, why would they jump at the chance to pay people retroactively who have been defunded?
it was already done. Non essential employees were already defunded. Republicans voted unanimously to fund them.
democrats and republicans want large government.
if republican politicians are against obamacare, it's for one reason *rubs fingers together*
streetglideok
10-05-2013, 23:11
One thing that is not really clear intentionally/unintentionally is the definition of non-essential staff. Without knowing that, it is hard to make a clear judgement about these people's jobs. Some of these people were dragged into a senseless, and retarded schoolyard brawl, and are not working as a result. I'm sure some of them really could stand to have their job cut, but many others do important things. The republicans are looking to shore up support from these people, and try not to make them victims to standing for what they believe in. It's small beans money wise compared to what obamacare will cost us. Right now we need obamacare funding cut, or axed completely, and no raising of the debt ceiling. Obama rather talk to terrorists and fellow dictators that work out a deal. His party is following him rank and file.... for now. The village idiot is trying to make us all suffer by issuing orders to block off views of Mt Rushmore, and banning access to open area parks, and even trying to run us out of oceanic waters. That stupid stuff is costing more than just leaving the stuff open. It's a temper tantrum plain and simple. Its Obama who has made this mess, and he shoulders the blame alone. MSNBC, the liberals, and Obama would love nothing more than to make people think its the republicans fault for this mess. If this drags out for months(doubtful), it will be the effects of his orders to close sites down that will lead to the democrat party's collapse in 2014, or will lead to some nastier protests than what we have seen this week.
As Republicans and Democrats have done each and every one of the last 17 times the government was shut down.
Paying the non-essential federal employees for their non-scheduled vacations is a bipartisan issue. This time the Republicans got to it first. It is a PR move to show they are not holding the individual employees responsible for the failures of Congress and the President.
This is not about the shutdown or who will fix the country. This is about control. Either the President can lead and the Congress will follow, or someone else will step up and lead and the Congress will follow. I don't know about you, but I have never been impressed by President Obama's leadership ability.
Both sides are to blame for this nonsense. I'm all for cleaning house from top to bottom and starting over with men & women who still believe in our Constitution and the American people. Not sure there are many in politics with those views anymore. [Dunno]
Both sides are to blame for this nonsense. I'm all for cleaning house from top to bottom and starting over with men & women who still believe in our Constitution and the American people. Not sure there are many in politics with those views anymore. [Dunno]
Are you calling for a new Constitutional Convention?
How would you accomplish your goal of replacing every politician? Something about a baby and the bathwater comes to mind.
We are a divided nation led by divided leaders. The best thing we can hope for is a compromise that makes everyone unhappy.
Be safe.
streetglideok
10-05-2013, 23:29
don't know about you, but I have never been impressed by President Obama's leadership ability.
You doubt King Obama[obama]? C'mon, he's the greatest thing since[fags] became cool. What you said almost would mean he had leadership ability. I don't think he has an ounce of it.
Only thing he
knows is the racism card.
You doubt King Obama[obama]? C'mon, he's the greatest thing since [fags] became cool. What you said almost would mean he had leadership ability. I don't think he has an ounce of it. Only thing he
knows is the racism card.
He is a proven fund raiser. For whatever reason, people seem to want to fund him and if you haven't already noticed, the most important ability needed to be The President of the USA is raise money. Know who has it and say what you need to to get the cash.
I think many people underestimate how many conservatives work for the fed gov, it's pretty close to 50/50 in the offices I have seen. If the republicans had voted against it there would have been a lot more votes lost.
generalmeow
10-06-2013, 08:23
I think many people underestimate how many conservatives work for the fed gov, it's pretty close to 50/50 in the offices I have seen. If the republicans had voted against it there would have been a lot more votes lost.
That seems to be the problem with politicians: it's all about being re elected. Except it seems like when they want votes, what they always do is increase the size, scope, and spending of government, or something else that is fucked up (amnesty for illegals, for votes). More services from the government is all they have to offer to secure votes.
i don't care what your political party is. If your paycheck is wasting my money, you don't deserve a paycheck. If you're being paid to oppress me, or be a thorn in the side of everyone, you deserve much worse.
so we always back pay workers after a shut down? Has that worked in the people's favor? Think it has anything to do with the snotty entitled attitude of government workers? Think it has anything to do with the government thinking the people work for them, instead of the other way around?
i would think permanent job insecurity for gov workers would be a good thing for the people. But then nobody would want to work for the government except those who don't care about the money. Yeah. Exactly. Go out and get a job in the private sector and see how the rest of us live - with more or less permanent job insecurity.
My mom and dad are both furloughed... They both work for the us forest service which is a fairly important agency... Dad works in wildland fire mom works in rangeland management... So what happens if there is a big forest fire??? Or with my moms job this is the time of year when you have to bring the livestock back from the grazing permits on the forest to avoid damaging them potentially effecting a ranchers livelyhood. Pretty sure that is fairly essential stuff. Seems like there is a warped perception of essential and non essential
jerrymrc
10-06-2013, 08:37
Think it has anything to do with the snotty entitled attitude of government workers? I just wonder why people just love to push my buttons. Come to my world some day and I will show you around. I just hate all these generalized statements. [Bang]
I just wonder why people just love to push my buttons. Come to my world some day and I will show you around. I just hate all these generalized statements. [Bang]
I was thinking the same thing. Granted my office does have a couple of holdovers from the gov jobs are my entitlement era, but my office lately has had huge turnover from 2 types of people: those who still think that way and end up fired less than 6 months in and those who come in overqualified and leave because the pay sucks, which for a GS-4 where our techs start isn't that great. Mine and another branch have had a >25% turnover rate over the last 18 months, most who come in with a degree end up leaving for a state gov job that pays a lot more for basically the same type of work.
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 10:19
Some gov't jobs are thankless jobs that don't pay that great, and you bust your butt. There are others though that earn the stereotype, overpaid and under productive. With the budget cuts over the last 20 years I would venture to guess the entitled ones are getting to be less and less.
jerrymrc
10-06-2013, 11:18
I was thinking the same thing. Granted my office does have a couple of holdovers from the gov jobs are my entitlement era, but my office lately has had huge turnover from 2 types of people: those who still think that way and end up fired less than 6 months in and those who come in overqualified and leave because the pay sucks, which for a GS-4 where our techs start isn't that great. Mine and another branch have had a >25% turnover rate over the last 18 months, most who come in with a degree end up leaving for a state gov job that pays a lot more for basically the same type of work.
We have lost 2 from my shop and 2 from the IT side because the outside paid 50% more. The benefits are not what they used to be (pre89) but everyone thinks we have this great retirement. 2/3 of my retirement is SS and a 401K just like everyone else. A person making $65,000 per year can expect to collect a pension benefit of $25,000 per year after 40 years of service.
theGinsue
10-06-2013, 11:48
If the Senate and the President cared about getting the rest of the government back to work, all they have to do is accept a budget without funding for the ACA. So who shut down the government?
The President of the United States.
And ^^this^^ is what it ultimately comes down to. Some of you can drink the liberal kool-aid and blame the GOP, but without holding the line against the unConstitutional and inaccurately named Affordable [Health] Care Act, the citizens of this country will continue to feel the total raping of their wallets and medical/financial privacy. If the POTUS & Democratic Senate actually listened to the will of the People like the GOP is trying to do, we wouldn't be in this mess.
ZERO THEORY
10-06-2013, 11:59
You're either a "tea partier", or you're a liberal.
http://www.miscupload.com/upload/732214317537894439178012.gif
generalmeow
10-06-2013, 12:29
http://www.miscupload.com/upload/732214317537894439178012.gif
Allow my to rephrase: you're either tea party, or you're fiscally liberal. I say that because only people who you would call tea partners actually support reducing the size and spending of government.
If that statement is incorrect, please tell me how. Give me an example of federal government spending and entitlements decreasing under republican control.
He is a proven fund raiser. For whatever reason, people seem to want to fund him and if you haven't already noticed, the most important ability needed to be The President of the USA is raise money. Know who has it and say what you need to to get the cash.
I heard it was called "white guilt".
If they are going to get back pay anyway, why send them home in the 1st place?
Bailey Guns
10-06-2013, 13:30
Allow my to rephrase: you're either tea party, or you're fiscally liberal. I say that because only people who you would call tea partners actually support reducing the size and spending of government.
If that statement is incorrect, please tell me how. Give me an example of federal government spending and entitlements decreasing under republican control.
Really? Then why do so many people, especially on this forum, like Ron Paul so much? He was neither. There are democrats in congress who are fiscally conservative. That either/or thing is just plain wrong.
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 13:39
And ^^this^^ is what it ultimately comes down to. Some of you can drink the liberal kool-aid and blame the GOP, but without holding the line against the unConstitutional and inaccurately named Affordable [Health] Care Act, the citizens of this country will continue to feel the total raping of their wallets and medical/financial privacy. If the POTUS & Democratic Senate actually listened to the will of the People like the GOP is trying to do, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Well said.
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2013, 15:20
Typical government, close the military food stores because the majority in Congress don't want some kind of health care laws? Maybe they should pass a law that requires inprisonment of the Congress , Senate and president when this happens. I'd certainly agree with this!
SamuraiCO
10-06-2013, 15:36
As Republicans and Democrats have done each and every one of the last 17 times the government was shut down.
Paying the non-essential federal employees for their non-scheduled vacations is a bipartisan issue. This time the Republicans got to it first. It is a PR move to show they are not holding the individual employees responsible for the failures of Congress and the President.
This is not about the shutdown or who will fix the country. This is about control. Either the President can lead and the Congress will follow, or someone else will step up and lead and the Congress will follow. I don't know about you, but I have never been impressed by President Obama's leadership ability.
+1
wctriumph
10-06-2013, 15:38
I just found out my health insurance is going up another $250 PER MONTH! $3000 a year!
Screw the Congress and if you voted for any one in the government that supported the ACA, screw you too you C*&ks%#g A$$H$^e!
jerrymrc
10-06-2013, 16:00
I just found out my health insurance is going up another $250 PER MONTH! $3000 a year!
Screw the Congress and if you voted for any one in the government that supported the ACA, screw you too you C*&ks%#g A$$H$^e!
Everyone that has ins is getting raped. That was one of the benefits that us lowlifes took the low pay but my part has gone from $160 to $450 per month in the last 3 years that our pay has been frozen. I have not looked at what it is going to be next year. Just like my homeowners ins that jumped 60%........
If they are going to get back pay anyway, why send them home in the 1st place?
Bingo. The Sheeple have been fooled once again.
Rooskibar03
10-06-2013, 18:05
Word is 83% of government is still running. Doesn't sound like much a shutdownto me.
Lets hit hit the debt ceiling and with no resolution and maybe things will start happening.
Doesn't Congress get paid regardless of a shutdown? Isn't this just so that everyone else gets paid?
BushMasterBoy
10-06-2013, 18:57
Doesn't Congress get paid regardless of a shutdown? Isn't this just so that everyone else gets paid?
This so there is NOT an excuse for a violent revolt.
This so there is NOT an excuse for a violent revolt.
I get that but isn't the tone of this thread making it seem like they voted to pay THEMSELVES when they wouldn't get paid anyway? Unless I'm missing something wasn't that going to happen anyway and this just got the other people who were NOT getting paid during this stand-still, paid?
streetglideok
10-06-2013, 20:22
I think we have a bunch of people either too young to remember the Clinton years and the shutdowns then, or just didn't care back then. The whole shutdown is a political stunt by all parties, and Obama is trying to use the media that still have his back to make it sound so much worse. Since the sequester earlier this year that was supposed to be apocalyptic didn't even get a yawn from the public, he is doing his best to punish us all by closing the ocean, roads, parks, hell even the amber alert system I read earlier. Sadly we have too many people addicted to the gov't tit, and will be harder to break them of it than to pull a calf off a cow.
About if the republicans are serious about this shutdown:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/05/house-passes-bill-to-retroactively-pay-federal-workers-after-government-shutdown-ends/
Passed unanimously. Why in the hell would we pay people for not working? All these federal workers are now on a paid vacation, thanks to republicans.
Do you get paid when you don't work?
If you're not an essential federal employee, not only do I think you shouldn't get paid to not work, I don't think you should have a job with the federal government, period.
republicans are for big and wasteful government. Time for the party to go away. You're either a "tea partier", or you're a liberal.
Thank god you're not King of the World.
Try this: you're busy doing your job, living your life...and suddenly, your boss comes to you and says, "Well, four hours to set things into hibernation mode and then go home. No pay, no idea when you're coming back. You know all those important time-sensitive projects you've been working on? They'll have to wait. Bye."
YOU don't know or get to decide who lives or dies. YOU don't get to decide who or what is "essential".
This furlough has certainly displayed the true colors of a lot of people. Do you know, for instance, that the same government that has determined these jobs are not essential, decided that all of the food service people, the caddies, the cooks and so on at Camp David were untouched by this furlough? Please tell me how this makes sense.
jerrymrc
10-06-2013, 21:13
Thank god you're not King of the World.
Try this: you're busy doing your job, living your life...and suddenly, your boss comes to you and says, "Well, four hours to set things into hibernation mode and then go home. No pay, no idea when you're coming back. You know all those important time-sensitive projects you've been working on? They'll have to wait. Bye."
YOU don't know or get to decide who lives or dies. YOU don't get to decide who or what is "essential".
This furlough has certainly displayed the true colors of a lot of people. Do you know, for instance, that the same government that has determined these jobs are not essential, decided that all of the food service people, the caddies, the cooks and so on at Camp David were untouched by this furlough? Please tell me how this makes sense.
I have invited him to see how stupid/dysfunctional/lazy/incompetent/wasteful/useless we are but he has not taken the bait. While I do understand that many .gov workers have issues and I myself had had issues with them the blanket statements made show that the OP has no clue how the many DOD workers here operate. [pick-me]
Most are ex military and support our armed forces. The post just shows how out of touch he is with the local situation.
ChunkyMonkey
10-06-2013, 21:18
Oh ignore the genius... Look at his past threads. [dig]
Try this: you're busy doing your job, living your life...and suddenly, your boss comes to you and says, "Well, four hours to set things into hibernation mode and then go home. No pay, no idea when you're coming back. You know all those important time-sensitive projects you've been working on? They'll have to wait. Bye."
My boss can say that to me on any random day though it is likely to be on a Thursday at around 9am. Of course it would be "you are not coming back" instead of "no idea when" but I could be out the door any day with no warning. You get to make the choice of sticking with the job (and likely getting paid normal amount just late) or not, I wouldn't get that choice.
I have invited him to see how stupid/dysfunctional/lazy/incompetent/wasteful/useless we are but he has not taken the bait. While I do understand that many .gov workers have issues and I myself had had issues with them the blanket statements made show that the OP has no clue how the many DOD workers here operate. [pick-me]
Most are ex military and support our armed forces. The post just shows how out of touch he is with the local situation.
I know. I see BS posts like this on FB all the time, and I just want to reach out and slap them up the back of the head.
Do they have ANY idea, I wonder, or do they all just imagine "government worker" equates with politicians? Do they really have no sense of understanding, that someone could continue working a job that they held in the military save that they are now working as a civilian for the government?
Apparently not, which tells me just how small and backward their world must be. To them, the DoD must be one big war machine, and they must depend on Hollywood to feed them the pertinent information of exacty how and what the government worker does. You know, the ones that are billed as "government worker #2" who says some stupid bureaucratic line in a movie, so the hero can react.
I had hoped there wouldn't be such reactions and judgments here, but it helps open my eyes as to the fact that they're everywhere.
Oh, and I especially enjoy the bullsh!t parting shot of "you're either 'X' or 'Y'!" Yes, because people are either one or the other, no other possibility exists. Especially when they disagree with the OP.
My boss can say that to me on any random day though it is likely to be on a Thursday at around 9am. Of course it would be "you are not coming back" instead of "no idea when" but I could be out the door any day with no warning. You get to make the choice of sticking with the job (and likely getting paid normal amount just late) or not, I wouldn't get that choice.
merl, that's not a job I would enjoy. I'm sure you have your reasons working there, but one of the reasons people take government jobs is the reasonable assurance that it's steady and reliable. Usually.
Then something like this happens, and a$$holes crawl out of the woodwork and shake their tiny fists and crow, "Non-essential! You all suck and shouldn't have a job anyhow!"
The latest percentage I've read today is 83% of the federal government is NOT shutdown. I'm not certain if that now means that 83% of federal employees are essential, but I take this statistic to bolster my point that "the shutdown" or "slimdown" or just plain political grandstanding is not the point of all the words being spouted in DC.
Who is in charge of the federal government? Is it the President? The House? The Senate? Speaker Bohner made it clear today that any debt increase will have to include budget cuts. No one knows exactly what that means specifically, however, it is a line in the sand. The President has stated publicly that he will not negotiate on the terms being presented by the House Republicans, and this is also a line in the sand. When all is said and done, both sides will claim that they did not give in or cross the lines they have drawn. Watching the deal when it is made, and it will be made, will be the clue to let people know who is in control.
This shutdown/budget/debt ceiling "crisis" (I'm really tired of the manufactured crisis du jour) is just a fancy smoke screen for old time power politics. This is how it has always been in this country and probably always will be. Historically, there are periods when the Executive is strong and the Legislature is weak and vice versa. Within a few weeks, we will know which groups, in which branch of our government has the upper hand.
Oh, and just as a side note to the OP. The Washington Post is reporting that the Senate Democrats have already stated that they will pass the House bill retroactively paying furloughed federal workers this week. The President has already indicated that he will sign the bill once it has passed the Senate. Was there ever any real doubt?
Be safe.
If the federal government wasn't over-reaching what they were empowered to do by the Constitution, we wouldn't have this kind of impact with a government shutdown. We also wouldn't have to keep feeding the monster with the only visible "cuts" being marginally reduced growth.
jerrymrc
10-07-2013, 15:53
If the federal government wasn't over-reaching what they were empowered to do by the Constitution, we wouldn't have this kind of impact with a government shutdown. We also wouldn't have to keep feeding the monster with the only visible "cuts" being marginally reduced growth.
And I will agree with you. How many new agency's have been created or grossly expanded in the last 12 years or so? I can tell you that the DOD was a bleak place up to 9/11. Just like before I have seen the ebb and flow of no $$ to a little more $$$ and back again. Bleak times in my world = 74-81 and 93-01 and I get to see the start of the next one before I retire. [Flower]
streetglideok
10-07-2013, 18:35
Interesting, democrats were in control during those times too. 1974-1976 had a republican in office but he took over an office full of scandal.
mountainjenny
10-07-2013, 18:48
If they are going to get back pay anyway, why send them home in the 1st place?
+1 , if you are getting paid to work then you should be working. Now tax payers are getting no productivity and the expense anyway.
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