View Full Version : Last Remaining Lead Smelter In The USA Closing After 120 Years
Last Remaining Lead Smelter In The USA Closing After 120 Years (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/10/20/remaining-lead-smelter-usa-closing/)
I am surprised I didn't see this on the forum yet. (yes I searched unless someone named their title badly)
Think it is going to change anything for ammo prices?
Think it is going to change anything for ammo prices?
I predict the ammo prices will not make a dramatic decline.
What are the standard Chinese military cartridges these days? I might have to get something chambered in one of those so I'll have ammo to shoot.
So, is the EPA going to push all remaining industry out of the U.S.?
So, is the EPA going to push all remaining industry out of the U.S.?
Have to grow their empire somehow. Looking back at history and at some other countries the EPA was/is needed to stop the worst offenses (do a search for lead smelting in MX). They did that and now the forests die due to beetles instead of H2SO4.
Trouble is these agencies have a mindset that they have to keep growing and regulating every little minutia. How do we get them to switch over to maintenance and out of expansion mode?
Don't worry about lead supply for bullets until they start talking about tariffs on imports to offset the "hidden costs."
anaphylaxis
10-21-2013, 22:29
Lead remediation:
http://www.art-engineering.com/Projects/Lordship/Photos.htm
Talks about lead being separated from dirt / targets and being transported for recycling. I'm guessing we won't have a shortage of lead for a while, assuming this occurs somewhat commonly.
spqrzilla
10-21-2013, 22:47
So, is the EPA going to push all remaining industry out of the U.S.?Yes.
So, is the EPA going to push all remaining industry out of the U.S.?
Yes.
Like merl said - they don't know when to stop. Look for them on your doorstep when one of your neighbors sees you melting lead in your garage for your very small bullet casting operation.
My questions would be.....
1. How are lead alternative will substitute the weight of the bullet?
2. Would Pb substitute be cheaper than Pb?
My questions would be.....
1. How are lead alternative will substitute the weight of the bullet?
2. Would Pb substitute be cheaper than Pb?
I think zinc is the only cheap substitute and it is a third the weight of lead. Even thought zinc is a little cheaper then lead you would need more of it for the same bullet weight making it more expensive. If there was a cheap substitute for lead we would be using it by now.
colorider
10-22-2013, 11:57
Car batteries will probably go up.
Car batteries will probably go up.
like those are made in the states now.
colorider
10-22-2013, 12:24
Good point.
SideShow Bob
10-22-2013, 17:34
My questions would be.....
1. How are lead alternative will substitute the weight of the bullet?
2. Would Pb substitute be cheaper than Pb?
Depleted uranium ?
Depleted uranium ?
Thorium would work, denser than lead, relatively common, not on the armor piercing banned list of elements. It is a bit radioactive and will self ignite in air but hey, anything to get the lead out. :)
jerrymrc
10-22-2013, 20:02
Thorium would work, denser than lead, relatively common, not on the armor piercing banned list of elements. It is a bit radioactive and will self ignite in air but hey, anything to get the lead out. :)
You leave my "Pre Ban" Aladdin Lamp Mantles alone. The new ones took the thorium out but I have 12 from Brazil. [panic][Flower]
This is really bad..... really really bad.
This is a US defense issue. If we can not produce our own bullets... WTF are we supposed to do with we end up in a real war with say.... oooo China who happens to want to be a super power and already owns enough US debt to sink our economy should they decide to sell it all on the open market at one time.
This also explains the HUGE build of up in ammunition by the US gov.
Great-Kazoo
10-23-2013, 08:35
This is really bad..... really really bad.
This is a US defense issue. If we can not produce our own bullets... WTF are we supposed to do with we end up in a real war with say.... oooo China who happens to want to be a super power and already owns enough US debt to sink our economy should they decide to sell it all on the open market at one time.
This also explains the HUGE build of up in ammunition by the US gov.
fire up the lathe and start turning out semi-wad cutters from brass rod, or any rod on hand. America is a nation of inventors, there's nothing that can't be done, providing FED agencies don't interfere.
We put a man on the moon, under the polar ice, gave the world star wars, it's se & prequels. WHAT CANT WE DO. ARE WE NOT MEN.
This is really bad..... really really bad.
This is a US defense issue. If we can not produce our own bullets... WTF are we supposed to do with we end up in a real war with say.... oooo China who happens to want to be a super power and already owns enough US debt to sink our economy should they decide to sell it all on the open market at one time.
This also explains the HUGE build of up in ammunition by the US gov.
I see you found some tinfoil. :)
US mil doesn't use lead in bullets anymore, we went green...
If we go into a real war with a country like China there is no way to fight that without lead. Seriously these trade agreements are evil and are leading to stuff like this. You can blame the EPA too. But at the core the fact that we as a nation produce so littler is a huge problem for our self defense.
Military hardware is something we still produce alot of, no worries there.
We still mine the lead, just ship it elsewhere to refine. Worst case we seize a few smelters in MX.
smokeyradio
11-09-2013, 22:00
Was in LGS today and was told to start buying ammo. EPA closed a lead processing plant in Missouri and lead will be in short supply.
This plant is supposed be the top supplier to companies that manufacture ammo.
Anyone else heard this?
smokeyradio
11-09-2013, 22:07
OOPS!!! Sorry. In my best Emily Latella voice, "Nevermind."
OOPS!!! Sorry. In my best Emily Latella voice, "Nevermind."
Whats all this talk about Endangered Feces?
hurley842002
11-09-2013, 22:42
Whats all this talk about Endangered Feces?
Lol
Great-Kazoo
11-09-2013, 23:30
Why the fuss over Russian Jewelery ?
What about this?
http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/10/back-door-gun-control-moves-forward/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+NewZeal+%28New+Zeal+Blog%29
Great-Kazoo
11-09-2013, 23:49
If we go into a real war with a country like China there is no way to fight that without lead. Seriously these trade agreements are evil and are leading to stuff like this. You can blame the EPA too. But at the core the fact that we as a nation produce so littler is a huge problem for our self defense.
When was the last time a major manufacturing plant opened up on American Shores? Something akin to say, USS , IBM or an oil refinery?
We were in a war with China, and lost. It's called the Economy. Like Muslims they out number us, out manufacture us. The only out they haven't done, is outsourced us.
When was the last time a major manufacturing plant opened up on American Shores? Something akin to say, USS , IBM or an oil refinery?
We were in a war with China, and lost. It's called the Economy. Like Muslims they out number us, out manufacture us. The only out they haven't done, is outsourced us.
[word]
What about this?
http://www.trevorloudon.com/2013/10/back-door-gun-control-moves-forward/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+NewZeal+%28New+Zeal+Blog%29
What about that, well, it makes me want to beat baby seals to death with the frozen carcasses of California condors. Why you ask? Well its tinfoil hat BS.
We are the 3rd largest miner of lead oars, do you really think it all went through that one smelter?
If USA smelted lead was in such high demand and there is only one smelter left don't you think they would spend the money to keep their monopoly?
If USA smelted lead was in such high demand or needed by us so much the lead price on the London metal exchange would have spiked when the announcement was made they were closing their doors. Did it? No.
Did you ever think Lead from Peru might be cheaper? I know lead shot made in Peru is cheaper then USA made shot (and the lead in that shot might have come from Peru anyway). It makes perfect sense to me: less fines, less fees, less disposal costs, cheaper wages, more competition, and the list goes on and on. The boat ride would be more then likley cancelled out by wages costs alone.
I think it is retarded for the government to regulate so much it put companies out of business but i also think one smelter is not going to bring a halt to the bullet supply or even raise the cost because the writing would be on the wall if it did.
Great-Kazoo
11-10-2013, 00:37
[word]
He's still waiting for the UAW to make a comeback.
theGinsue
11-10-2013, 01:36
Whats all this talk about Endangered Feces?
Uh, Ms. Roseannadanna, it's species. Endangered species, not feces.
It's always something--if it ain't one thing, it's another.
Uh, Ms. Roseannadanna, it's species. Endangered species, not feces.
It's always something--if it ain't one thing, it's another.
Oh...never mind.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/12/01/Higher-Ammo-Prices-Anticipated-As-EPA-Regs-Close-Lead-Smelter
Higher-Ammo-Prices-Anticipated-As-EPA-Regs-Close-Lead Smelter
Because of heightened EPA regulations, Doe Run Company's Herculaneum lead smelter in Herculaneum, Missouri—the last U.S. smelter of its kind—is closing its doors on December 31, 2013.
Once this happens, the lead for traditional ammunition will have to be imported, thus driving up the price for bullets, shotgun shells, etc.
The Herculaneum smelter has been operating in the same location since 1892. And according to the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action (NRA-ILA), "it is the only smelter in the United States which can produce lead bullion from raw lead ore," so once it closes, the only lead smelters left in the nation will be ones that recycle lead from existing items "such as lead acid batteries or spent ammunition components."
Herculaneum's product is the type of lead used to make components for traditional lead ammunition, and once the smelter closes, such lead and/or ammunition components will have to be imported into the U.S. Ammunition prices are expected to rise, reflecting import costs.
In 2008, the EPA "issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard." Following the release of this standard, the Doe Run Company tried to bring the Herculaneum smelter into compliance but in 2010 realized the cost of compliance was too great. They then reached a "comprehensive settlement" with both the EPA and the state of Missouri, requiring the smelter to close at the end of 2013.
Kraven251
12-02-2013, 10:18
This seems like something they could have fought, but hey...they finally went after the ammunition.
generalmeow
12-02-2013, 10:34
Why would the prices go higher, as imported ammo is already the same/less expensive than domestic?
Great-Kazoo
12-02-2013, 10:35
Why not close this thread and post in the original one already linked ? ? ?
generalmeow
12-02-2013, 10:48
Have you ever been at a party talking to a guy, and someone comes up and says "hey, dipshits, they're already having the same conversation over there. Go join their conversation, or stop talking." or "Hey, some guys already had this same conversation here last week. Stop talking."
No, that doesn't happen, because its stupid. I never understood what the big deal is about discussing the same thing in a different place. Maybe this thread will go in an entirely new direction.
Have you ever been at a party talking to a guy, and someone comes up and says "hey, dipshits, they're already having the same conversation over there. Go join their conversation, or stop talking." or "Hey, some guys already had this same conversation here last week. Stop talking."
No, that doesn't happen, because its stupid. I never understood what the big deal is about discussing the same thing in a different place. Maybe this thread will go in an entirely new direction.
It will now :)
There may be a run on ammunition by people that don't realize that lead is recycled (in the US) and imported already. The closing of the plant will have little to no effect on lead prices because it is a global market.
Until the EPA starts slapping import tariffs on lead for fluffy unspecified secondary costs this does not matter.
Have you ever been at a party talking to a guy, and someone comes up and says "hey, dipshits, they're already having the same conversation over there. Go join their conversation, or stop talking." or "Hey, some guys already had this same conversation here last week. Stop talking."
No, that doesn't happen, because its stupid. I never understood what the big deal is about discussing the same thing in a different place. Maybe this thread will go in an entirely new direction.
You're comparing apples and oranges. In the example you just gave, not everyone may be a party to that verbal conversation. Here, every conversation is open and in written form that lives beyond a face-to-face encounter. The text is also searchable.
Great-Kazoo
12-02-2013, 12:31
You're comparing apples and oranges. In the example you just gave, not everyone may be a party to that verbal conversation. Here, every conversation is open and in written form that lives beyond a face-to-face encounter. The text is also searchable.
Don't make me report Common Sense to the Mods.
generalmeow
12-02-2013, 12:33
You're comparing apples and oranges. In the example you just gave, not everyone may be a party to that verbal conversation. Here, every conversation is open and in written form that lives beyond a face-to-face encounter. The text is also searchable.
Be that as it may, what is the big deal about multiple threads on the same subject? If you could do it, would you actively go around a party trying to get the people who are talking about the same things into the same group? Maybe it would be good for their conversation, maybe it wouldn't, but it would definitely be socially unacceptable for you to do.
It would also be weird for me to ask around what everyone is and has been previously talking about, before I start up a conversation of my own.
If you don't start a fresh conversation, then your post is just an off spin of the OP, which maybe isn't what you want.
Great-Kazoo
12-02-2013, 13:20
, what is the big deal about multiple threads on the same subject? I
.
Bandwidth. why clog up a web site with numerous threads, worded differently on the same exact subject.
Aloha_Shooter
12-02-2013, 16:03
Have you ever been at a party talking to a guy, and someone comes up and says "hey, dipshits, they're already having the same conversation over there. Go join their conversation, or stop talking." or "Hey, some guys already had this same conversation here last week. Stop talking."
No, that doesn't happen, because its stupid. I never understood what the big deal is about discussing the same thing in a different place. Maybe this thread will go in an entirely new direction.
This comment is what's stupid. Your "analogy" is so flawed I don't even know where to begin with it.
Precisely. This isn't a cocktail party with folks milling about. It's a tad bit more organized than that.
Don't make me report Common Sense to the Mods.
Yeah, I get that a lot. It's a character flaw.
Hilary Clinton said in 08 that she wouldn't go after guns, we could have any and all guns including full auto, she would go after ammo. And now the EPA tightens regs on the one and only lead smelter left to where its not cost effective or reasonable to keep the plant open? Oh here is my surprised face.[Roll1]
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