View Full Version : Open Carry Activists Falsely Arrested 10/26/13
SuperiorDG
10-29-2013, 17:02
Crazy ass video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cow1HBEH1TY
In texas no less,,,wierd would like to see the article along with it
Execution for recording in vertical format!
Contrary to popular belief, Texas doesn't have great gun laws.
I believe open carry is actually illegal.
...of handguns. Long guns are legal. They're trying to change that.
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/10/29/hostile-crowd-boldly-squares-off-with-police-at-texas-open-carry-rally-86148
“Two of our party members were carrying two pre 1899 black powder replica revolvers, they were holstered the whole time, they were never drawn or displayed rudely by any means,” Amanda Andeen said.
Black powder replicas are not classified as firearms. They can be purchased anywhere without a background check. They have them right over at Cabela's if you want one. ;-)
http://www.opencarrytexas.org/
https://www.facebook.com/events/159181827620253/
Looks like some people are about to get paid. It's pretty obvious the group knew the laws
Their point was they were not carrying firearms at all by the definition of a firearm or a handgun. I don't know what they had but heard someone say 1890ish replica by definition is not a firearm.
I guess you could carry around a near complete ar without a lower receiver and you wouldn't be carrying a firearm.
Inconel710
10-29-2013, 17:38
3:36 to finally tell us what he was carrying. When will people figure out that cursing doesn't help their cause. Sorry, couldn't listen to anymore.
KevDen2005
10-29-2013, 17:49
Open carry is illegal in Texas, I didn't watch the video, just sayin.
Wasn't a firearm and open carry of long guns is legal, just sayin.
DavieD55
10-29-2013, 19:33
I didn't watch the vid since I saw it on another site a few days ago. Open carry is legal in Texas as long as the pistol was manufactured before a certain date like 1878 or something which the pistols they were carrying were supposedly of that era.
I beleive that particular open carry movement was brought about because of an Army Master Sergeant CJ Grisham who was alleged to have been falsely arrested for carrying an Ar 15 while hunting in Texas.
I love all the idiots standing around screaming and yelling the epithets at the cops -- but not doing a damn thing about it. If they *really* felt that strongly maybe they should have done something to stop the situation.
Like most.. Whole lotta bark, very little bite. They know this - that is why "we" are in the position "we" are.
BPTactical
10-29-2013, 22:07
Their point was they were not carrying firearms at all by the definition of a firearm or a handgun. I don't know what they had but heard someone say 1890ish replica by definition is not a firearm.
I guess you could carry around a near complete ar without a lower receiver and you wouldn't be carrying a firearm.
And all we need is some lefty douchebag organization complaining about "replica" and "antique" iron swinging in the open and the feds will classify them as firearms.
Open carry has its place.
It also has its price.
Choose wisely.
Here is a link to the Texas Penal Statutes regarding firearms and weapon.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
(3) "Firearm" means any device designed, made, or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosion or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use. Firearm does not include a firearm that may have, as an integral part, a folding knife blade or other characteristics of weapons made illegal by this chapter and that is:
(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.
I love all the idiots standing around screaming and yelling the epithets at the cops -- but not doing a damn thing about it. If they *really* felt that strongly maybe they should have done something to stop the situation.
Like most.. Whole lotta bark, very little bite. They know this - that is why "we" are in the position "we" are.What exactly should they have done?
losttrail
10-30-2013, 08:19
What exactly should they have done?
How about every one of them sitting down and getting arrested? Non-violent, non-threatening civil disobedience.
brokenscout
10-30-2013, 08:54
They could have done a lot more, but cameras were good in this case. Minus a shoot out, what else could they have done?
I love all the idiots standing around screaming and yelling the epithets at the cops -- but not doing a damn thing about it. If they *really* felt that strongly maybe they should have done something to stop the situation.
Like most.. Whole lotta bark, very little bite. They know this - that is why "we" are in the position "we" are.
What exactly should they have done?
They had a whole TON of other options. Standing around screaming doesn't do anything execept making oneself look like an idiot.
One of the more interesting options would have been to perform a citizens arrest of the officers.
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.
Deprivation of rights under color of law is a felony punishible by up to 10 years in jail.
18 USC ยง 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
The ACLU would be doing backflips trying to figure out who to support...
Again that would have been an interesting option. Others:
Everyone to peacibly protest by sitting down and shutting up.
Making a human barricade.
Calling the FBI and reporting a dep. of rights violation.
Having the media there.
Having your attorney present (or even better a judge).
Asking for a superior officer to be present (I know they dont have to comply but it gives options)
etc.
etc.
etc.
brokenscout
10-30-2013, 09:10
I would have liked to seen a citizens arrest on video,lol.
Watched about half of the video. It seems like the protesters got what they wanted: an arrest to highlight the issue and bring attention to it. They probably could have done without the loudmouths spouting expletives and insults. Anyone that believes that they didn't think they were going to be arrested is an idiot.
As soon as the group started screaming at the cops.. granted it was only a few who took it waaaayy too far. I was done. There is a way you do things that garner positive attention and this is not one of them.
Gee, and here I was about ready to drop everything and get the Hell out of CO for the freedom state. [Shake]
Sounds like a bunch of internet trolls out in public. What happened from "the law is" to "what is the law"? They are on our side?
When I grew up in TX, you didn't mess with the State Troopers. Period.
Seems to me like a common theme that is expressed on this site is that wrongful arrest or even an arrest made in good faith even if a crime did not actually occur should be fought in the justice system- not on the streets with the police (asmo). Imagine how south things would have gone had the mob attempted to affect a citizen's arrest on the police upon the person being placed under arrest. I imagine it wouldn't have gone well and perhaps more officers would have been dispatched on scene and the paddy wagons would have rolled out. It's incumbent upon the populace to know the law, this mob seemed to, however, how were these officers to know that it was a replica and not an actual firearm? Judging from the description some of the people in the video gave, 1899... sorry, I'm not familiar with those weapons and would be very reluctant to handle something I didn't know exactly how to make safe or secure properly. Does everyone here know how to unload every single pistol ever made? I sure don't. I know most mainstream automatics and revolvers, but I can't claim to know how to handle every single gun out there on the street. Shoot, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I handled a Hi-Point for the first time, and I needed a quick run through on how to load/unload and use that gun. I can't entirely defend the actions of these officers, but I can't condemn them completely either. Once it was revealed that it was a non-working replica a simple apology and release may have been warranted. However, TX might have a law similar to CO where one is not allowed to display a firearm (real or not) for the purposes of alarm- not saying this guy they cuffed and stuffed did that, but we don't have all the facts with someone's iPhone video that conveniently started filming a few minutes late (isn't that how it always is?).
Seems to me like a common theme that is expressed on this site is that wrongful arrest or even an arrest made in good faith even if a crime did not actually occur should be fought in the justice system- not on the streets with the police (asmo).
HUh? What did I do? I didn't advocate mob violence. Just saying that the crowd could have been more productive than just screaming and looking like idiots - and by their lack of action they show that they really didn't care *that* much. Its one thing to bitch and whine - its something completely different to bet your life on what you believe in.
It's incumbent upon the populace to know the law, this mob seemed to, however, how were these officers to know that it was a replica and not an actual firearm? Judging from the description some of the people in the video gave, 1899... sorry, I'm not familiar with those weapons and would be very reluctant to handle something I didn't know exactly how to make safe or secure properly. Does everyone here know how to unload every single pistol ever made? I sure don't. I know most mainstream automatics and revolvers, but I can't claim to know how to handle every single gun out there on the street. Shoot, it wasn't until 2 years ago that I handled a Hi-Point for the first time, and I needed a quick run through on how to load/unload and use that gun. I can't entirely defend the actions of these officers, but I can't condemn them completely either. Once it was revealed that it was a non-working replica a simple apology and release may have been warranted. However, TX might have a law similar to CO where one is not allowed to display a firearm (real or not) for the purposes of alarm- not saying this guy they cuffed and stuffed did that, but we don't have all the facts with someone's iPhone video that conveniently started filming a few minutes late (isn't that how it always is?).
Uh...it's the officer enforcing the law's responsibility to know what law he's enforcing. It's not difficult to tell that it's not centerfire or rimfire. Do the police just act and then it's up to someone else to figure it out later? I held the Rangers in higher regard until I saw this video.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
asmo, any action taken by the people would have escalated the situation into a really bad one.
asmo, any action taken by the people would have escalated the situation into a really bad one.
"bad" is subjective.. Many of marches and sit-ins for racial equality turned into bad situations -- doesn't mean they weren't effective. Those people were committed to the cause. People screaming and yelling at cops are not.
Again, not trying to incite or encourage mob violence here. In my post I said it would have been an 'interesting' turn of events if the crowd tried to citizens arrest the cops -- historically, morally, and legally interesting.
HUh? What did I do? I didn't advocate mob violence. Just saying that the crowd could have been more productive than just screaming and looking like idiots - and by their lack of action they show that they really didn't care *that* much. Its one thing to bitch and whine - its something completely different to bet your life on what you believe in.
It sounded, just by the way you presented it, that you were advocating the mob to restrict or otherwise hinder the officers from affecting the arrest... What else besides yelling and screaming would you suggest they do? What "action" would you suggest? Remember, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Uh...it's the officer enforcing the law's responsibility to know what law he's enforcing. It's not difficult to tell that it's not centerfire or rimfire. Do the police just act and then it's up to someone else to figure it out later? I held the Rangers in higher regard until I saw this video.
It will be interesting to see where this goes.
Did you see the replica? I didn't, and having not seen first hand, I can't attest to weather or not it would be difficult to tell that it's not a legally defined firearm. I can say that from the reaction of the officers, it perhaps *looked* like a real, functioning firearm. I don't have a doubt in my mind these officers knew what law they were enforcing. What I do have doubts is that, on both sides, the officer affecting the arrest may not have known if it was real or not, the way it was presented, or if the arrest was in fact valid. It's not about just act and let someone else figure it out, it's about the totality of the circumstances, officer perception, and the ability to distinguish if, in fact, a criminal offense has occurred. To the perception idea, remember the story from last week about the kid in CA that had the toy AK-47 that got shot? It looked real enough then. Again, I can't say if, in this case, the gun was easily distinguishable as a replica or not. I've seen some pretty real looking replicas, and you also have to take into account that not everyone is an expert on every firearm ever made- the determination that it wasn't real sometimes can be difficult.
What else besides yelling and screaming would you suggest they do? What "action" would you suggest? Remember, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Umm.. Reread post #20 again.. I gave multiple other actions - and that was just scratching the surface. Not like this is the first time a situation like this has happened (albeit guns, alcohol, land, race, younameit)
It's interesting how the various Italian-made cap and ball revolvers are real, actual, functioning shootable replicas of the original Colt, Remington, and etc., and are just as accurate, powerful and deadly as the originals, yet The Gooberment doesn't classify them as firearms.
Still, a friggin' cheeseburger should be able to verify at a glance whether one is loaded or not. No caps, no balls in the chambers, no shooty. Unloaded, it's just an unwieldy club, or an interesting prop. Not a "firearm", not loaded, should be legal to wear in public.
Ronin, face it. You're opinion is shaded by your career choice. That summary you wrote was pure apologist BS.
What ever happened to 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'?
JM Ver. 2.0
10-30-2013, 21:54
Ronin, shut the hell up... You're not going to win here. Better to save your sanity, and your hair, and just ignore these threads.
Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.
james_bond_007
10-31-2013, 08:49
Uh...it's the officer enforcing the law's responsibility to know what law he's enforcing..... Do the police just act and then it's up to someone else to figure it out later?...
I was hoping some of the LEO members of the forum could address this.
I was told (these are not my statements) by a lawyer/DA friend of mine that :
1) Police Officers are NOT lawyers, nor are they expected to know the details of EVERY law on the books from memory
2) Lawyers don't even know every law on the books from memory...that is why the books are made available as references when questions arise
3) Officers are to use their best judgements in deciding if there is a POSSIBILITY of a crime being committed and make an arrest as appropriate
4) Officers should "use their best judgement" but refrain from attempting to "judge at the scene", especially on topics which they don't have all the details - that's what the courts are for
(Yes, I know this sounds like a paradox, but I'm trying to provide a brief summary of a lengthy conversation. It was more like he was trying to say that the LEO should ask him/her self "In my (the officer's) opinion, based on my particular knowledge and experience, could a crime have been committed?" a) YES- make an arrest; b) MAYBE - make an arrest or c) NO - no arrest)
So, I'm asking the LEOs here to comment on what I was told AND on what the criterion is they use to determine to arrest someone.
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